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Star Wars The Last Jedi Episode 8 thread: this thread sucks, you should avoid it even after you've seen the movie (2 Viewers)

I liked the movie. I generally dont go out of my way to find things that dont make sense or movies wouldnt entertain me as much

I will agree with both sides here though. Yankee fan makes awesome points but I can understand the insein/psychopav/smacktripper point of view as well.

At this point, there is no sense in arguing. It is what it is. 

I said this in the force awakens thread. What these new movies did, was allow me and my kids to enjoy SW together. Both were with me on Friday night and both liked it as well. At this point in my life, enjoying things with my kids is pretty much number 1 so there is always that

 
Autumn Wind said:
That was awesome and makes me like the movie even more.  It is funny how many people were critical of The Force Awakens because it was just a remake of A New Hope and they wanted something new.  Now we have something new and trying to "kill the past" but the same people are complaining about how it wasn't the same.  I don't think these people would ever be 100% satisfied with a new Star Wars movie.

 
I'm also not a fan of the theme "don't worry about training, if you have the natural talent, that's all that matters." Rey never trained as to use the force. She just does. Or at least she does after trying for the first time in TFA. In TLJ (which is like a couple days later right) she's all of a sudden able to field a light saber no prob, can go toe to toe with Kylo in a force push battle, float boulders and ####. 

Luke had to work his ### off to do that stuff and this girl's just like yea no biggie. 

And yes there are people in the world more talented than others at a great many things. But we also see people try to coast on talent alone fail when the going gets tough. It's the people that have the talent and train hard to perfect it that make the Masters. This movie suggests that Kwame Brown was as good as say Jason Kidd because he was just a freakish talent.

 
Great post @Yankee23Fan - there is a lot of stuff to think about in there and I think you are right about most if not all of it.  I think overall there were a lot of good ideas in this movie that might catch on with me on another watch.   It's just to me the movie didn't hit the emotions and pace of the ones like like more and the negatives overshadowed the ideas that were presented.  
 Thanks.  Again I'm really not fighting.  I can understand your point. And might even agree.  The music is not as emotional as the original. 

But I chalk that up to the mythos of my youth.  Few things move me today that are new in the face of what I grew up enjoying. 

And I wonder if that is a lesson here.

 
I'm also not a fan of the theme "don't worry about training, if you have the natural talent, that's all that matters." Rey never trained as to use the force. She just does. Or at least she does after trying for the first time in TFA. In TLJ (which is like a couple days later right) she's all of a sudden able to field a light saber no prob, can go toe to toe with Kylo in a force push battle, float boulders and ####. 

Luke had to work his ### off to do that stuff and this girl's just like yea no biggie. 

And yes there are people in the world more talented than others at a great many things. But we also see people try to coast on talent alone fail when the going gets tough. It's the people that have the talent and train hard to perfect it that make the Masters. This movie suggests that Kwame Brown was as good as say Jason Kidd because he was just a freakish talent.


she's more like John Daly and kylo is like Tiger Woods

 
That was awesome and makes me like the movie even more.  It is funny how many people were critical of The Force Awakens because it was just a remake of A New Hope and they wanted something new.  Now we have something new and trying to "kill the past" but the same people are complaining about how it wasn't the same.  I don't think these people would ever be 100% satisfied with a new Star Wars movie.
You only get one bit at the apple with Hamil/Ford/Fisher and I think on the whole, their management was pretty well bungled.  I think thats why people take it personally.  The page is turned now, for better or worse but I'd give their mangement a "D"

Rian Johnson seemed to think this pudgy vietmanese broad was a better character than Luke.   Good luck with that bro. 

 
I do feel for the people who have to make these and try to appease all the fans.  I am guilty of this too.  TFA comes out and people are #####ing that it was basically a reboot of IV.  This comes out and tries some new stuff and people are #####ing because we didn't get the same story beats that we did in the original trilogy.  My beefs weren't with that stuff, but I get it.  

Yankee is right that we don't know jack about the Emperor in the first 3 and Phasma could be like a bounty hunter character that we also don't know jack about.  

I am curious where this will go since it's supposed to be a trilogy but it seems like quite a few of the answers were addressed.  I guess it's another chase as the Rebels get answers and help and the First Order finds them and hunts them down again as Kylo and Rey have a showdown.   I am just not sure what else is left, and I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing.  For a series of 3 movies, this one seemed to end on an odd note of having closure on a lot of stuff.  

 
I liked the movie. I generally dont go out of my way to find things that dont make sense or movies wouldnt entertain me as much

I will agree with both sides here though. Yankee fan makes awesome points but I can understand the insein/psychopav/smacktripper point of view as well.

At this point, there is no sense in arguing. It is what it is. 

I said this in the force awakens thread. What these new movies did, was allow me and my kids to enjoy SW together. Both were with me on Friday night and both liked it as well. At this point in my life, enjoying things with my kids is pretty much number 1 so there is always that
I was pretty well ok with the logical holes until Luke got killed in such a blase manner.   I don't know how he needed to die but my god that one sucked

 
I'm also not a fan of the theme "don't worry about training, if you have the natural talent, that's all that matters." Rey never trained as to use the force. She just does. Or at least she does after trying for the first time in TFA. In TLJ (which is like a couple days later right) she's all of a sudden able to field a light saber no prob, can go toe to toe with Kylo in a force push battle, float boulders and ####. 

Luke had to work his ### off to do that stuff and this girl's just like yea no biggie. 

And yes there are people in the world more talented than others at a great many things. But we also see people try to coast on talent alone fail when the going gets tough. It's the people that have the talent and train hard to perfect it that make the Masters. This movie suggests that Kwame Brown was as good as say Jason Kidd because he was just a freakish talent.
Luke worked his ### off? He went to a swamp and had a muppet ride his back for 15 minutes and then it was off to face Vader. What are you talking about? 

 
I do feel for the people who have to make these and try to appease all the fans.  I am guilty of this too.  TFA comes out and people are #####ing that it was basically a reboot of IV.  This comes out and tries some new stuff and people are #####ing because we didn't get the same story beats that we did in the original trilogy.  My beefs weren't with that stuff, but I get it.  

Yankee is right that we don't know jack about the Emperor in the first 3 and Phasma could be like a bounty hunter character that we also don't know jack about.  

I am curious where this will go since it's supposed to be a trilogy but it seems like quite a few of the answers were addressed.  I guess it's another chase as the Rebels get answers and help and the First Order finds them and hunts them down again as Kylo and Rey have a showdown.   I am just not sure what else is left, and I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing.  For a series of 3 movies, this one seemed to end on an odd note of having closure on a lot of stuff.  
I agree on Phasma and Bounty Hunter, just kind of "cool" characters that were born to die

 
I was pretty well ok with the logical holes until Luke got killed in such a blase manner.   I don't know how he needed to die but my god that one sucked
Interesting. I didn't think it was blase at all. I don't know how much force a Jedi would need to do what he did, but it seems like a lot. He served his purpose. He was able to be free and move on. :shrug:

 
Luke worked his ### off? He went to a swamp and had a muppet ride his back for 15 minutes and then it was off to face Vader. What are you talking about? 
He had been training for weeks to that point. And he went off to face Vader and got his ### handed to him. Yoda said as much. Don't go dummy. You aint ready.

 
 Thanks.  Again I'm really not fighting.  I can understand your point. And might even agree.  The music is not as emotional as the original. 

But I chalk that up to the mythos of my youth.  Few things move me today that are new in the face of what I grew up enjoying. 

And I wonder if that is a lesson here.
That was what surprised me the most -  TFA and RO gave me that feeling again, this one did not and I have been trying to put my finger on why that is since I left the theater.  

 
 Thanks.  Again I'm really not fighting.  I can understand your point. And might even agree.  The music is not as emotional as the original. 

But I chalk that up to the mythos of my youth.  Few things move me today that are new in the face of what I grew up enjoying. 

And I wonder if that is a lesson here.
The music I think is the biggest failure in these new films. It just sounds so... Generic. Not epic in anyway. It's just background noise. 

Just a peeve of mine. No one has to agree with me here.

 
Interesting. I didn't think it was blase at all. I don't know how much force a Jedi would need to do what he did, but it seems like a lot. He served his purpose. He was able to be free and move on. :shrug:
Is there any evidence of the ability or rationale to make yourself into an astral projected hologram in this universe or with the force?  If there were ground rules that doing this could or would kill you, ok maybe I can get on board.   We had no idea of the stakes as that scene played out,  Ben and Rey are strong enough to have a 4G connection between their brains but Luke isn't on that party line or Ben can't realize this is  a projection or whatever? Leia doesn't know? 

What if we reverse the order of things, what if Luke actually killed himself to THEN project there, or talk to Yoda and we know he's risking his life for this?   They just wanted this gimmick of projection and then it kills him?  There's no moment with Rey or anything?  Luke dies like a jabroni?

 
At this point, there is no sense in arguing. It is what it is. 

I said this in the force awakens thread. What these new movies did, was allow me and my kids to enjoy SW together. Both were with me on Friday night and both liked it as well. At this point in my life, enjoying things with my kids is pretty much number 1 so there is always that
It's still fun to debate and argue though.  

Agree 100% and it's been a blast watching all the movies as my son grew up, I was surprised that he didn't take to this one and that could also be clouding my judgement a tad.  If I felt him at the edge of his seat I probably would have gotten more into it as well and looked over the flaws.    It's also great seeing the kickass female characters front and center in these.  I have a 2 year old and she already picks out the Star Wars stuff and knows who Yoda is.  I can't wait to start watching these with her in a few years.  

 
I was pretty well ok with the logical holes until Luke got killed in such a blase manner.   I don't know how he needed to die but my god that one sucked
Not sure I'd call it blase. He reconnected with the Force after hiding for years, and pulled off a stunt that as far as we know is unprecedented in Jedi lore. It likely took more out of him than we suspect, and much like Obi-Wan he felt like his work was done. He finally found the peace that had eluded him his entire adult life and opted to exit stage left at that moment. 

 
The music I think is the biggest failure in these new films. It just sounds so... Generic. Not epic in anyway. It's just background noise. 

Just a peeve of mine. No one has to agree with me here.
I noticed it too and I was surprised that it was Williams involved.  Like I said, even as ####ty as Ep 1 was, it has some epic music and themes.  

 
That was what surprised me the most -  TFA and RO gave me that feeling again, this one did not and I have been trying to put my finger on why that is since I left the theater.  
RO made me hate RotJ.  And I mean hate.  There are cool and good parts to RotJ yes, but RO is the movie Jedi should have been and every time I think about how great RO was the more I hate everything that Jedi ultimately was, the final Vader scene aside.

 
Not sure I'd call it blase. He reconnected with the Force after hiding for years, and pulled off a stunt that as far as we know is unprecedented in Jedi lore. It likely took more out of him than we suspect, and much like Obi-Wan he felt like his work was done. He finally found the peace that had eluded him his entire adult life and opted to exit stage left at that moment. 
we aren't left to feel that though, that kind of #### is tacked on in exposition because the filmmaking didn't work. 

 
I'm just going to use yours as starting point - again, my opinion herein.  Not arguing with people that didn't like it.  The reason I disagree FWIW:

The bloodline was not the entire story of the original trilogies.  It was the main focal point, sure.  But Anikan and Luke weren't the only Jedi to have ever lived. The bloodline helps and the mythology of the specific Skywalker bloodline was that it was one of extreme power with the force, but it wasn't the only one.  There were other massively powerful Jedi, Yoda being only one of many.  

The lines between good and evil were always blurred.  That is the point of Luke's anger in the Emperor's room at the end of Jedi, and the reason that the Jedi counsel, Yoda and Windu, specifically, acted the way they did in the prequels.  There is ultimate good and ultimate evil, sure, but most people deal in the middle.  The island of the very Jedi temple had a dark side.  There can't be one without the other.  The Sith embraced the dark, the Jedi the light, and while the Sith never had a good side that we were shown, the Jedi had a bad side.  Their own arrogance led to their own downfall.  Luke made that clear - it is arrogant of the Jedi (arrogance being the precursor to the dark side) to presume that they know the only true way to use the force.  And if it is truly an energy field enveloping all things, then it has pieces of all things in it - good and bad.

I didn't take the arms dealer thing as a grand muddying of the waters, but a lesson to Fin that everything is never what is always seems to be - which connects the dots that Luke was teaching Rey - don't just presume the guys that say they are good are always good.  You will be wrong, and that presumption leads to the arrogance that led to the fall of the Jedi.

The breaking of the lightsaber was awesome in every respect.  The force is more important and powerful than one family, one symbolic tool of its power.  The fight between Rey and Kylo is an equal fight that not even tradition can stand in the face of.  If you truly believe that the lightsaber of a Skywalker is that important then that is the very reason why the Jedi failed.  The symbolism too precedent over the substance.

The training wasn't necessary to use the force - it was necessary for the Jedi to train children the way the Jedi wanted to train them to ensure that they used their powers in the way the Jedi wanted them to.  The lesson of the prequels was rather clear - the counsel determined who they saw fit to learn how to harness the power, and therefore by definition there were kids they turned away.  The need to be trained was selfish by the Jedi - make sure they are on our side, instead of truly understanding the power within them.  That selfishness helped to turn Anikan, and it tore at Luke until the very penultimate moment of Jedi.  Look at the language of Palpatine in that room - he wasn't saying join me because you are done, it was join me and I will train you in the use of the dark side.  The power of the Jedi and the Sith needed to be taught - not the force itself, but how to use it for the ends of the people who would control it on both sides.

Rey isn't a master - Luke said she had raw power.  Just like Anikan when he was a kid being the only human that could control a pod racer.  Kylo can't dominate her because he is still too emotional and lacking the self control to use his entire ability.  And he isn't all the way bad because he couldn't kill Leia.
A hundred times this.

The prequels and Clone Wars series (which is canon, don't @ me) make it abundantly clear that the Jedi we all mythologized after the first trilogy had devolved into nothing more than some mystical paramilitary group that was a tool of the ruling government. Their so-called values are also wildly consistent. They preach about not holding onto things and practicing detachment but are totally cool with becoming field generals so the Republic can stay in power. 

Luke is right on, eff the Jedi.

 
Luke worked his ### off? He went to a swamp and had a muppet ride his back for 15 minutes and then it was off to face Vader. What are you talking about? 
I was just thinking the same thing.  I remember watching the original trilogy and thinking how fast he was able to master the force.  The only one who spent years training was Anakin and that's because he was just a kid.  No wonder there are so many complaints, some people just have their minds made up.

 
The music I think is the biggest failure in these new films. It just sounds so... Generic. Not epic in anyway. It's just background noise. 

Just a peeve of mine. No one has to agree with me here.
The music didn't bother me during the movie but seeing everyone comment on it I try to think back to it and can't even remember any of the music.  That's a sign that the music wasn't all that great and didn't leave an impression with me.

 
I was just thinking the same thing.  I remember watching the original trilogy and thinking how fast he was able to master the force.  The only one who spent years training was Anakin and that's because he was just a kid.  No wonder there are so many complaints, some people just have their minds made up.
Yup

 
Is there any evidence of the ability or rationale to make yourself into an astral projected hologram in this universe or with the force?  If there were ground rules that doing this could or would kill you, ok maybe I can get on board.   We had no idea of the stakes as that scene played out,  Ben and Rey are strong enough to have a 4G connection between their brains but Luke isn't on that party line or Ben can't realize this is  a projection or whatever? Leia doesn't know? 

What if we reverse the order of things, what if Luke actually killed himself to THEN project there, or talk to Yoda and we know he's risking his life for this?   They just wanted this gimmick of projection and then it kills him?  There's no moment with Rey or anything?  Luke dies like a jabroni?
It reminded me of Yoda's death.  When that originally happened it was a WTF? moment.  I'm sure people were saying the same thing when they first say that as well.

 
I was just thinking the same thing.  I remember watching the original trilogy and thinking how fast he was able to master the force.  The only one who spent years training was Anakin and that's because he was just a kid.  No wonder there are so many complaints, some people just have their minds made up.
He trained for maybe a month tops with Yoda then ran off and got his ### beat down. Then we have a 5 year gap between movies where we can say maybe he trained during that period. Rey has no on screen training. No suggestion that she ever trained and is just able to do everything by trying it the first time. That's cool I guess. 

Hey kids if you have talent, don't worry about practice. That's not what makes perfect. Just going out there and doing it is all you need.

 
It reminded me of Yoda's death.  When that originally happened it was a WTF? moment.  I'm sure people were saying the same thing when they first say that as well.
at the time of yoda's death he was 900.  He was elderly and we had never seen him fight.  This was more in the vein of Obi Wan dying, who went out with his boots on. 

Luke would have been better served sacraficed to snoke

 
at the time of yoda's death he was 900.  He was elderly and we had never seen him fight.  This was more in the vein of Obi Wan dying, who went out with his boots on. 

Luke would have been better served sacraficed to snoke
I don't know about that. Snoke was a joke. Literally. It was laughable that he existed and was able to build this whole first order.

The real travesty is that at any time during this 30 year layoff, Luke, Han and Leia allowed this 2 bit Hugh Hefner wanna be to come into power anyway.

 
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Too many broads in these movies these days. 
What?

and now your point is any kid sweeping up weird space horse crap can have the force might be feel good but I'm sorry that's not star wars.  Why didn't Han have the force then? 
Jedi always came from all over. Then they were taken in by the Jedi and trained from a young age. They didn't all come from long bloodlines of force users like the Skywalkers. Which is actually a pretty short bloodline. 

No idea what you're talking about here. 

 
The music didn't bother me during the movie but seeing everyone comment on it I try to think back to it and can't even remember any of the music.  That's a sign that the music wasn't all that great and didn't leave an impression with me.


there's music throughout the movie and it fits perfectly in every scene.    the music was actually a highlight.  

 
I don't know about that. Snoke was a joke. Literally. It was laughable that he existed and was able to build this whole first order.

The real travesty is that at any time during this 30 year layoff, Luke, Han and Leia allowed this 2 bit Hugh Hefner wanna be to come into power anyway.
I agree, I wasn't in love with Snoke but they built him as this bad ### that can control the dark and light side, read minds, manipulate all of this stuff and he does off in a gimmicky manner.  Which, listen, fine but it doesn't make any sense.  

 
at the time of yoda's death he was 900.  He was elderly and we had never seen him fight.  This was more in the vein of Obi Wan dying, who went out with his boots on. 

Luke would have been better served sacraficed to snoke
What was Snoke going to do?  Have we even seen him move out of his chair?  All I've been hearing is that things didn't happen the way you wanted so it sucks.  No way they are going to make a movie that satisfies everyone.  Rey having the ability to use the force as well as she did doesn't bother me at all and I find it pretty cool.  I will admit that I was surprised that Luke died the way he did and it could've been better.  Wasn't a huge deal to me though because I thought Yoda's death was just as weak.  I also thought Obi Wan's death was kind of weak and could have been better.

 
there's music throughout the movie and it fits perfectly in every scene.    the music was actually a highlight.  
Hmm.  Never really stuck out to me.  I know it wasn't bad because I would remember that, it just was awesome enough for it to stick with me.  The only music that really got me was the opening pf the movie.

 
What?

Jedi always came from all over. Then they were taken in by the Jedi and trained from a young age. They didn't all come from long bloodlines of force users like the Skywalkers. Which is actually a pretty short bloodline. 

No idea what you're talking about here. 
Yes, too many broads.  Leia, Laura Dern, Rose, Rey, on the heels of the hot chick in the last movie these are movies for dudes that dudes watch on the whole.  Put some dudes in it. 

This whole construct has been a skywalker story.  We are down to one living person with skywalker blood, presumably, in Ben.  Put your jedi in other films, original cannon has always been, and reasonably should be, skywalker stories.

 
Yes, too many broads.  Leia, Laura Dern, Rose, Rey, on the heels of the hot chick in the last movie these are movies for dudes that dudes watch on the whole.  Put some dudes in it. 

This whole construct has been a skywalker story.  We are down to one living person with skywalker blood, presumably, in Ben.  Put your jedi in other films, original cannon has always been, and reasonably should be, skywalker stories.
So, you basically admit to being a little sexist.  I can't wait to hear someone say there were too many minorities in the movie too.  One review I read said it was basically a movie about rebels being chased by old, British, White guys.   :wall:

 
Yes, too many broads.  Leia, Laura Dern, Rose, Rey, on the heels of the hot chick in the last movie these are movies for dudes that dudes watch on the whole.  Put some dudes in it. 

This whole construct has been a skywalker story.  We are down to one living person with skywalker blood, presumably, in Ben.  Put your jedi in other films, original cannon has always been, and reasonably should be, skywalker stories.
Now this is don't agree with.

 
So, you basically admit to being a little sexist.  I can't wait to hear someone say there were too many minorities in the movie too.  One review I read said it was basically a movie about rebels being chased by old, British, White guys.   :wall:
I'm being totally sexist and so what.  Look, I was actually totally fine with Rey, thats a fresh new take to show things are simply about strength or whatever and its the force that matters, and I was even ok with Jyn Urso because I thought she was a good character.   Why Leia's leadership, Laura Dern and the big nosed broad and our only new character of signficance in Rose, are female, I just don't buy it in a fighting construct.   I'm sorry, it doesn't work for me in what is essentially a War movie.

 
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Yes, too many broads.  Leia, Laura Dern, Rose, Rey, on the heels of the hot chick in the last movie these are movies for dudes that dudes watch on the whole.  Put some dudes in it. 
Imagine writing this sentence and then actually believing it. I just can't. 

 
Whovians who opposed the change from Peter Capaldi to Jodie Whittaker were called misogynist by a lot of "woke" people. These people claimed the anti-Whittaker people were against women having any meaningful role in the Who universe (notwithstanding the fact that those same Whovians LOVED the fact that the Master regenerated as a woman and that companions are more assertive and role-model worthy than those in Classic Who). It couldn't be that either a) they didn't care for the actresses work or b) just felt uncomfortable leaving the comfort zone of having a male Doctor. Nope, it just had to be sexism. :rolleyes:  

For heavens sake, this year's companion (Bill) was a lesbian and nobody cared! Two of the Doctor's female friends who live in the 1880s are a (secretly) married lesbian couple - and one of them is a lizard!! There have been at least two recurring black characters (one of which was a companion) on the NuWho show.

It's rather hard to assert that Whovians dislike change when different groups get screen time on the show and it stays fairly consistent to its canon. Yes, there are those stuck in the past who think that NuWho is a bunch of trash, but they're in the minority.

 
A hundred times this.

The prequels and Clone Wars series (which is canon, don't @ me) make it abundantly clear that the Jedi we all mythologized after the first trilogy had devolved into nothing more than some mystical paramilitary group that was a tool of the ruling government. Their so-called values are also wildly consistent. They preach about not holding onto things and practicing detachment but are totally cool with becoming field generals so the Republic can stay in power. 

Luke is right on, eff the Jedi.
I think there is something to this, in terms of how people view this story in relation to how much weight one chooses to place in the prequels, and whether they invested in watching (or even reading) canon like Clone Wars and Rebels.  As flawed as the prequels were, I appreciate Johnson basically validating the Jedi arc of the prequels and Clone Wars.

 
I'm being totally sexist and so what.  Look, I was actually totally fine with Rey, thats a fresh new take to show things are simply about strength or whatever, and I was even ok with Jyn Urso because I thought she was a good character.   Why Leia's leadership, Laura Dern and the big nosed broad and our only new character of signficance in Rose, are female, I just don't buy it in a fighting construct.   I'm sorry, it doesn't work for me in what is essentially a War movie.
Hasn't Leia always been a leader of some sort?  I will admit that it seems they are trying to get more women involved, probably to make up for the original movies and to gain a larger fan base but who cares.  How is this ruining the movie?  There are tons of female Star Wars fans and they are just as die hard.  Not sure when Star Wars was considered a movie for dudes.  It's basically a soap opera.

 
I think there is something to this, in terms of how people view this story in relation to how much weight one chooses to place in the prequels, and whether they invested in watching (or even reading) canon like Clone Wars and Rebels.  As flawed as the prequels were, I appreciate Johnson basically validating the Jedi arc of the prequels and Clone Wars.
I have to wonder if Lucas planned that or just sort of stumbled into it, because it's actually one of the more interesting storylines post-OT.

 

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