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The reason why I like a league like this is the rookie drafts actually mimic the NFL drafts. Watkins isn't the consensus #1 and Sankey doesn't even sniff the top 3. There's actually value placed on QB and teams have to make much more difficult decisions on middling QB talent...much like the NFL does as well.Agreed, 2QB or Superflex leagues where there isn't an escalating cost to keep QB's from year to year can quickly become untenable after a while.
In my dynasty league (which rosters somewhere around 40-50 QB's, including NFL 3rd-stringers in some case, since there is no waiver wire), we have one owner who has 6 or 7 starting QB's, while two teams struggled to start the minimum two. Fortunately, with escalating salaries at the end of every contract (and significant increases for players in the top-20, which is the majority of starting-caliber QB's), this situation won't last more than a year or two.
Even crappy QB's are worth their weight in gold, so it's paramount that there's a mechanism to ensure that a few are returned to the free agency pool every year.
I am in multiple Superfelx leagues. A couple are only 3 pt per TD pass leagues (to create parity) and one caps the amount of QB's on a roster at four. One also is a super duper flex and we can start 1-3 QB's (this is a 6 pt per TD pass league).I only do one league a year that has superflex, and QBs definitely lead teams to titles in that league. Weird rules allow you to actually have the ability to start THREE QBs, since one of the lineup rules says you have to start a "rookie of any position". So land a good rookie QB late somehow and bam.
If I did a 2 QB league for dynasty there would have to be some sort of rules, either roster limits or limit total number of QBs, so that teams don't get lucky and hit on some top tier young QBs and then rule the league with scoring and trades for ever and ever.
The leagues I am in become top heavy quick enough as it is.
Even capping QBs at 4 though doesn't help much to me. I'm in a few 2QB leagues here are some of the random QB rosters teams have:I am in multiple Superfelx leagues. A couple are only 3 pt per TD pass leagues (to create parity) and one caps the amount of QB's on a roster at four. One also is a super duper flex and we can start 1-3 QB's (this is a 6 pt per TD pass league).I only do one league a year that has superflex, and QBs definitely lead teams to titles in that league. Weird rules allow you to actually have the ability to start THREE QBs, since one of the lineup rules says you have to start a "rookie of any position". So land a good rookie QB late somehow and bam.
If I did a 2 QB league for dynasty there would have to be some sort of rules, either roster limits or limit total number of QBs, so that teams don't get lucky and hit on some top tier young QBs and then rule the league with scoring and trades for ever and ever.
The leagues I am in become top heavy quick enough as it is.
Yeah, the issue is I'm not sure that still works. Think of it this was, if it's 2QB and not Superflex than you MUST start two per week. Which means you need at least 3 QBs and they can't share a bye week. Which is why in dynasty most people try to stash 4 starters if possible because you can't predict future byes. My personal opinion is that 2QB kind of just sucks and Superflex would be much better. Even in a 10 team league there's know way every team will have 3 starters. Cause you figure on average at least 2-4 teams have injuries or simply changes to their starting QB mid year. So saying there are 32 starters is a little misleading. It's more like 28-29 and that number expands to like 35 "valuable" QBs. Your Kirk Cousins, Matt Flynn types who are backing up QBs that have had significant injuries. Then the guys like Derek Carr, Scahub, Bortles & Henne. Definitely Manziel and Hoyer. But there's only like 25 legit every week start types. And being that most leagues have 2-3 teams with 4 of those? It makes a real strangle hold on the league. Not amount of roster or scoring changes are likely to adjust that. By making 2QB leagues you automatically make the scaresist position the most needed.I agree that there needs to be some incentive to prevent QB hoarding. Another way to prevent is to increase the number of other starters. It makes trading a third starter more attractive because there are many more spots to upgrade.
Instead of Superflex, I like the idea that the second spot is QB/TE. If you're in a hole, it's not a guaranteed zero, but there's an impetus to have two quarterbacks. going at all times. I also like that the diamonds in the rough actually have value. I had to give up Ben Tate for Case Keenum last year. Scott Tolzien was a hot commodity and at least one team got to experience the joys of Tuel Time.Khy, on 17 Jun 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:Yeah, the issue is I'm not sure that still works. Think of it this was, if it's 2QB and not Superflex than you MUST start two per week. Which means you need at least 3 QBs and they can't share a bye week. Which is why in dynasty most people try to stash 4 starters if possible because you can't predict future byes. My personal opinion is that 2QB kind of just sucks and Superflex would be much better. Even in a 10 team league there's know way every team will have 3 starters. Cause you figure on average at least 2-4 teams have injuries or simply changes to their starting QB mid year. So saying there are 32 starters is a little misleading. It's more like 28-29 and that number expands to like 35 "valuable" QBs. Your Kirk Cousins, Matt Flynn types who are backing up QBs that have had significant injuries. Then the guys like Derek Carr, Scahub, Bortles & Henne. Definitely Manziel and Hoyer. But there's only like 25 legit every week start types. And being that most leagues have 2-3 teams with 4 of those? It makes a real strangle hold on the league. Not amount of roster or scoring changes are likely to adjust that. By making 2QB leagues you automatically make the scaresist position the most needed.Gawain, on 17 Jun 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:I agree that there needs to be some incentive to prevent QB hoarding. Another way to prevent is to increase the number of other starters. It makes trading a third starter more attractive because there are many more spots to upgrade.
Yeah, I guess? Idk, in my 2QB leagues people hold a pretty tight noose around any player they feel has a path to a starting job. Any of these guys who were drafting in the Top 2 rounds of rookie drafts are usually held onto pretty tight. Kaepernick was a high 2nd round pick in all of my 2QB leagues when he came out. Foles was a mid-3rd and he'd likely have been higher too if it weren't for the fact that the Eagles looked like they were in a complete crash-and-burn status following the 2011 season.Instead of Superflex, I like the idea that the second spot is QB/TE. If you're in a hole, it's not a guaranteed zero, but there's an impetus to have two quarterbacks. going at all times. I also like that the diamonds in the rough actually have value. I had to give up Ben Tate for Case Keenum last year. Scott Tolzien was a hot commodity and at least one team got to experience the joys of Tuel Time.Khy, on 17 Jun 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:Yeah, the issue is I'm not sure that still works. Think of it this was, if it's 2QB and not Superflex than you MUST start two per week. Which means you need at least 3 QBs and they can't share a bye week. Which is why in dynasty most people try to stash 4 starters if possible because you can't predict future byes. My personal opinion is that 2QB kind of just sucks and Superflex would be much better. Even in a 10 team league there's know way every team will have 3 starters. Cause you figure on average at least 2-4 teams have injuries or simply changes to their starting QB mid year. So saying there are 32 starters is a little misleading. It's more like 28-29 and that number expands to like 35 "valuable" QBs. Your Kirk Cousins, Matt Flynn types who are backing up QBs that have had significant injuries. Then the guys like Derek Carr, Scahub, Bortles & Henne. Definitely Manziel and Hoyer. But there's only like 25 legit every week start types. And being that most leagues have 2-3 teams with 4 of those? It makes a real strangle hold on the league. Not amount of roster or scoring changes are likely to adjust that. By making 2QB leagues you automatically make the scaresist position the most needed.Gawain, on 17 Jun 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:I agree that there needs to be some incentive to prevent QB hoarding. Another way to prevent is to increase the number of other starters. It makes trading a third starter more attractive because there are many more spots to upgrade.
I'm not in a true 2-QB dynasty (Keep 6), so the lesser QBs and backups get churned. But even in a true dynasty, there's an opportunity to make offers for the Kaepernicks and Foles of the world before they get their opportunity.
Absolutely, and since having only 1-2 rosterable QB's tends to make for a poor team and therefore better draft picks, you often see those QB's going early. I'm certain that in my 10-team dynasty league, two QB's will be taken in the first three picks, and a third by the sixth. It's not a particularly strong QB class, but I would expect at least two more rookie QB's to be taken as well, though with the escalating salaries and 3-year contract for rookies, there's less incentive to take "stash and wait" players.Gawain, on 16 Jun 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:The reason why I like a league like this is the rookie drafts actually mimic the NFL drafts. Watkins isn't the consensus #1 and Sankey doesn't even sniff the top 3. There's actually value placed on QB and teams have to make much more difficult decisions on middling QB talent...much like the NFL does as well.SelenaCat, on 16 Jun 2014 - 9:20 PM, said:Agreed, 2QB or Superflex leagues where there isn't an escalating cost to keep QB's from year to year can quickly become untenable after a while.
In my dynasty league (which rosters somewhere around 40-50 QB's, including NFL 3rd-stringers in some case, since there is no waiver wire), we have one owner who has 6 or 7 starting QB's, while two teams struggled to start the minimum two. Fortunately, with escalating salaries at the end of every contract (and significant increases for players in the top-20, which is the majority of starting-caliber QB's), this situation won't last more than a year or two.
Even crappy QB's are worth their weight in gold, so it's paramount that there's a mechanism to ensure that a few are returned to the free agency pool every year.
I agree with the first part.Excellent thread idea. More people should play 2QB/Superflex leagues.
One giant strawman of a post we have here.2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.
1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.
2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.
By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage
Never played in a 2qb league I see. Palmer and similar qbs still go in the 7-10 rd range because people have different strategies much like regular leagues. Some people like to go Qb-Qb but are left with suspect rbs or wrs. Others like a more balanced approach. Then theres guys who like to take studs at rb and wr and take a shot on the mid tier qbs carrying them.2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.
1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.
2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.
By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage
never happens like that in the 2qb league im in or in any other 2 qb leagues i have played in.2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.
1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.
2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.
By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage
I would not be part of a 2QB or Superflex league that used "QB-friendly" scoring (.05 pt per PY / 6-pt pass TD or more), especially not one employing a snake draft format.12 team league
4 or 6 pts for passing TD's in the superflex format with PPR?
Starting lineup configuration 2RB/2WR 1 superflex, 2 RB/3WR 1 superflex, 2RB/2WR/1 FLEX RB/WR & 1 superflex?
How about roster size for a 12 team league?
I'm in one league just like this, though it is Superflex, rather than start 2Q. Out of 220 roster slots for the league, 43 are currently being used on QBs, and we haven't had our rookie draft yet. So that number could increase.2QB 10 team dynasty, 6pts/TD, no ppr, no contracts.
In my league, QBs certainly go earlier in rookie drafts, but not to the same extent being described here. I expect Watkins, Evans, and Sankey to be the top 3 picks in this league. I hold the #3 pick, and I'm not considering a QB, based on my team needs. I think Bridgewater and Manziel will definitely be first rounders; Bortles may slide to the second. When 43 QBs are rostered across 10 teams, QB isn't really a need for many teams.Absolutely, and since having only 1-2 rosterable QB's tends to make for a poor team and therefore better draft picks, you often see those QB's going early. I'm certain that in my 10-team dynasty league, two QB's will be taken in the first three picks, and a third by the sixth. It's not a particularly strong QB class, but I would expect at least two more rookie QB's to be taken as well, though with the escalating salaries and 3-year contract for rookies, there's less incentive to take "stash and wait" players.Gawain, on 16 Jun 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:The reason why I like a league like this is the rookie drafts actually mimic the NFL drafts. Watkins isn't the consensus #1 and Sankey doesn't even sniff the top 3. There's actually value placed on QB and teams have to make much more difficult decisions on middling QB talent...much like the NFL does as well.SelenaCat, on 16 Jun 2014 - 9:20 PM, said:Agreed, 2QB or Superflex leagues where there isn't an escalating cost to keep QB's from year to year can quickly become untenable after a while.
In my dynasty league (which rosters somewhere around 40-50 QB's, including NFL 3rd-stringers in some case, since there is no waiver wire), we have one owner who has 6 or 7 starting QB's, while two teams struggled to start the minimum two. Fortunately, with escalating salaries at the end of every contract (and significant increases for players in the top-20, which is the majority of starting-caliber QB's), this situation won't last more than a year or two.
Even crappy QB's are worth their weight in gold, so it's paramount that there's a mechanism to ensure that a few are returned to the free agency pool every year.
As a note, 2QB works moderately well with 10-team leagues, but I'd absolutely push for Superflex in any 12-team or larger leagues as it's entirely possible for someone to get locked out of that 2nd QB, especially in an auction format, and there's no joy in having a team required to start a player who is either injured or not playing.
here's the back end of my rankingsIs anyone in this thread interested in discussing actual players or is this just for talking about league structures, etc.?
There are a lot of QB's whose ADP is QB15+ that are intriguing options to start as someone's second QB. Either as part of a QBBC or sleeper high-end QB2s.
Would be interested in debating the prospects of these and will start a different thread if that is more appropriate
Emerging guys like Locker, Tannehill, S. Bradford etc. plus a number of vets with improved/new situations and/or weapons (C. Palmer, J. Flacco, E. Manning, etc.).
I completely disagree. I have won my 10 player total point start two QB leagues with several different strategies. Seems like you have it out for Blaine for some reason but like anthing else in FFB it is a strategy. Last year there were between 2-3 qb's taken in the first two rounds. Like any other draft the run really didn't start until the 4th round. I will say the winner last year drafted manning and brees early so it will be interesting to see how the QB run goes this year.2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.
1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.
2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.
By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage
I think the take away from what he said is about increasing the number of other starters. My leagues use a QB/RB flex but then we add a 4th WR and a 2nd TE and also a WR/TE flex.Yeah, I guess? Idk, in my 2QB leagues people hold a pretty tight noose around any player they feel has a path to a starting job. Any of these guys who were drafting in the Top 2 rounds of rookie drafts are usually held onto pretty tight. Kaepernick was a high 2nd round pick in all of my 2QB leagues when he came out. Foles was a mid-3rd and he'd likely have been higher too if it weren't for the fact that the Eagles looked like they were in a complete crash-and-burn status following the 2011 season.Instead of Superflex, I like the idea that the second spot is QB/TE. If you're in a hole, it's not a guaranteed zero, but there's an impetus to have two quarterbacks. going at all times. I also like that the diamonds in the rough actually have value. I had to give up Ben Tate for Case Keenum last year. Scott Tolzien was a hot commodity and at least one team got to experience the joys of Tuel Time.Khy, on 17 Jun 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:Yeah, the issue is I'm not sure that still works. Think of it this was, if it's 2QB and not Superflex than you MUST start two per week. Which means you need at least 3 QBs and they can't share a bye week. Which is why in dynasty most people try to stash 4 starters if possible because you can't predict future byes. My personal opinion is that 2QB kind of just sucks and Superflex would be much better. Even in a 10 team league there's know way every team will have 3 starters. Cause you figure on average at least 2-4 teams have injuries or simply changes to their starting QB mid year. So saying there are 32 starters is a little misleading. It's more like 28-29 and that number expands to like 35 "valuable" QBs. Your Kirk Cousins, Matt Flynn types who are backing up QBs that have had significant injuries. Then the guys like Derek Carr, Scahub, Bortles & Henne. Definitely Manziel and Hoyer. But there's only like 25 legit every week start types. And being that most leagues have 2-3 teams with 4 of those? It makes a real strangle hold on the league. Not amount of roster or scoring changes are likely to adjust that. By making 2QB leagues you automatically make the scaresist position the most needed.Gawain, on 17 Jun 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:I agree that there needs to be some incentive to prevent QB hoarding. Another way to prevent is to increase the number of other starters. It makes trading a third starter more attractive because there are many more spots to upgrade.
I'm not in a true 2-QB dynasty (Keep 6), so the lesser QBs and backups get churned. But even in a true dynasty, there's an opportunity to make offers for the Kaepernicks and Foles of the world before they get their opportunity.
I played in three start 2QB leagues last year. These were deep leagues with 14 starters and 10 team leagues w/24 man rosters. I won the championship in one with Campbell, Cassell, Clemens / Bradford, Palmer, Schaub, and had Geno and Manuel early on,and didn't draft the 1st QB until pick 11.3I completely disagree. I have won my 10 player total point start two QB leagues with several different strategies. Seems like you have it out for Blaine for some reason but like anthing else in FFB it is a strategy. Last year there were between 2-3 qb's taken in the first two rounds. Like any other draft the run really didn't start until the 4th round. I will say the winner last year drafted manning and brees early so it will be interesting to see how the QB run goes this year.2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.
1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.
2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.
By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage
1) Everything you said applies to 1 QB leagues but instead of QBs being out of whack, it's RBs that are disproportionately taken in the first few rounds and you end up having to rely on guys like Mark Ingram, Chris Ivory and Jordan Todman.2QB leagues have 2 huge problems.
1: The Blaine Gabbert effect. In the draft, even the worst QBs have value. Specifically they have way higher value than they should. All teams should have 3 QBs (even Superflex) and even horrible 3rd options (like Gabbert was) are better picks than backup WR4/5 types. Fantasy football, above all else, is about fun. It's no fun putting a guy you hate on your roster because you don't have much choice.
2: the first 2 rounds are dominated by QB, by design. There is just little to no risk in a top 3 pick. You get an elite QB, a second conventional first round pick near the 2/3 turn then a third borderline 1st round pick in the third. How is the guy at the 1/2 turn supposed to counteract a Manning/Murray/Julio start? Or a Manning/Bell/Big Ben start? The pressure to take a QB in the first 2 rounds is massive and it gives the guys drafting earlier a pretty big advantage.
By the end of the fourth round in most leagues that can start 2QBs, Carson Palmer should be gone. That should be enough reason to never be in a 2QB league. The whole thing boils down to higher draft position = more consistant team = huge advantage