Start Your Real NFL Today - Choice between Cam Newton or Andrew Luck (1 Viewer)

[Lash]

I am a Panthers fan and I was devastated when Luck decided to go back to college, and even more upset when Newton was picked (or at least in the weeks leading up to the draft when everyone knew Newton was going #1). I thought the team should have done the reasonable thing and grabbed a game changing defensive lineman. While the Panthers definitely could still use that lineman, I couldn't be happier with what they got in Newton. I'll admit that I was wrong about the kid, and he's proving himself to be a great rookie and a surprisingly impressive leader on the field and through his dealings with the media.

I think Luck will be good and it's certainly possible that he's the next Peyton Manning, but I'm perfectly happy with where the Panthers are with their franchise QB. I remember when Matt Leinart was a can't miss prospect as well. I'll take the guy who has proven his skills in the NFL already.

ummm.... Leinart was NEVER "can't miss""can't miss" QBs go at pick #1, nine teams don't pass on "can't miss"

as for the discussion, we all raved about Vince and Vick when they were running all over the place their rookie years ... these running QB guys... Steve Young MAYBE, (for whatever reason who knows) DO NOT WIN SUPER BOWLS

guys with Luck's skillset do

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I am a Panthers fan and I was devastated when Luck decided to go back to college, and even more upset when Newton was picked (or at least in the weeks leading up to the draft when everyone knew Newton was going #1). I thought the team should have done the reasonable thing and grabbed a game changing defensive lineman. While the Panthers definitely could still use that lineman, I couldn't be happier with what they got in Newton. I'll admit that I was wrong about the kid, and he's proving himself to be a great rookie and a surprisingly impressive leader on the field and through his dealings with the media.

I think Luck will be good and it's certainly possible that he's the next Peyton Manning, but I'm perfectly happy with where the Panthers are with their franchise QB. I remember when Matt Leinart was a can't miss prospect as well. I'll take the guy who has proven his skills in the NFL already.

ummm.... Leinart was NEVER "can't miss""can't miss" QBs go at pick #1, nine teams don't pass on "can't miss"

as for the discussion, we all raved about Vince and Vick when they were running all over the place their rookie years ... these running QB guys... Steve Young MAYBE, (for whatever reason who knows) DO NOT WIN SUPER BOWLS

guys with Luck's skillset do

 

[CalBear]

as for the discussion, we all raved about Vince and Vick when they were running all over the place their rookie years ... these running QB guys... Steve Young MAYBE, (for whatever reason who knows) DO NOT WIN SUPER BOWLS

Maybe the reason is that your assertion is based on faulty assumptions. It's certainly based on faulty facts, since you can't throw out Steve Young's Super Bowl performance (6 passing TDs and top rusher on the day).

 

[mbuehner]

I am a Panthers fan and I was devastated when Luck decided to go back to college, and even more upset when Newton was picked (or at least in the weeks leading up to the draft when everyone knew Newton was going #1). I thought the team should have done the reasonable thing and grabbed a game changing defensive lineman. While the Panthers definitely could still use that lineman, I couldn't be happier with what they got in Newton. I'll admit that I was wrovbnng about the kid, and he's proving himself to be a great rookie and a surprisingly impressive leader on the field and through his dealings with the media.

I think Luck will be good and it's certainly possible that he's the next Peyton Manning, but I'm perfectly happy with where the Panthers are with their franchise QB. I remember when Matt Leinart was a can't miss prospect as well. I'll take the guy who has proven his skills in the NFL already.

ummm.... Leinart was NEVER "can't miss""can't miss" QBs go at pick #1, nine teams don't pass on "can't miss"

as for the discussion, we all raved about Vince and Vick when they were running all over the place their rookie years ... these running QB guys... Steve Young MAYBE, (for whatever reason who knows) DO NOT WIN SUPER BOWLS

guys with Luck's skillset do

How many qbs in nfl history have had newtons skill set? maybe 2 or 3? How many have had luck's? Dozens? more? For every Manning there is are a bunch of guys with a pedigree holding a clipboard or selling cars that never had a good day as good as any of newtons games to date.

We could run the numbers but im positive there are more high profile qb busts or just average results than there are flash in the pans that have a season this historic and are never heard from again. Shall we look?

 

[CalBear]

as for the discussion, we all raved about Vince and Vick when they were running all over the place their rookie years ... these running QB guys... Steve Young MAYBE, (for whatever reason who knows) DO NOT WIN SUPER BOWLS

Maybe the reason is that your assertion is based on faulty assumptions. It's certainly based on faulty facts, since you can't throw out Steve Young's Super Bowl performance (6 passing TDs and top rusher on the day).

Let me follow up on this. The Niners picked up Steve Young in 1987, the same year that Vinnie Testaverde went #1 overall in the draft. Given the choice, should the NIners have chosen Testaverde over Young, because Testaverde was a pocket passer and Young can run?Other QBs in that draft included Chris Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Cody Carlson, Mark Vlasic, Rich Gannon, Steve Beuerlein, and Don Majikowski, along with a bunch of guys who never got to play. I am willing to assert that none of those guys would have thrown for six TDs in the Super Bowl, had the Niners taken them over Steve Young.

 

[Raider Nation]

One analyst who's not necessarily over the moon with Luck's rare combination of poise, football acumen, ability to read defenses, and playbook intelligence is former New York Giants quarterback Phil Simms. Tuesday, on Sirius NFL Radio with Adam Schein and Rich Gannon, Simms said that while Luck does have some positive attributes, he's not buying in just yet."I think the hype is a little too much," Simms said. "I feel bad for him in that respect. I mean, [how's] he going to do to match what they say he can do? There's a lot to him. I think his best quality, by far, is that he's big and strong and he's going to be able to move and run in the NFL. There's no question. I mean, this guy is strong. The throwing? He manages a game. I see all that."But the one thing I don't see, I just don't see big-time NFL throws. I don't care what anybody says. I've watched a lot of him. He never takes it and rips it in there. And you can say what you want but, man, you've got to be able to crease that ball every once in a while. We see it every week in these games. Hey, he can develop it but even in the USC game, you know, he's very careful with it, guides it a lot. That's what I see. "There's not a lot of rotation on the ball and there's not a tremendous amount of power. Not that you need to have that power arm. I'm not saying you've got to have that exclusively but, man, it sure helps when you can do that because there's four or five plays a game it is about arm strength. And sometimes quarterbacks who don't have it, they pass those plays up. Why? Well, they go, 'I don't know if I can make that throw,' so they throw it short. That's why I'm a little more reserved in my judgment than everybody else."

 

[Joe Bryant]

One analyst who's not necessarily over the moon with Luck's rare combination of poise, football acumen, ability to read defenses, and playbook intelligence is former New York Giants quarterback Phil Simms. Tuesday, on Sirius NFL Radio with Adam Schein and Rich Gannon, Simms said that while Luck does have some positive attributes, he's not buying in just yet."I think the hype is a little too much," Simms said. "I feel bad for him in that respect. I mean, [how's] he going to do to match what they say he can do? There's a lot to him. I think his best quality, by far, is that he's big and strong and he's going to be able to move and run in the NFL. There's no question. I mean, this guy is strong. The throwing? He manages a game. I see all that."But the one thing I don't see, I just don't see big-time NFL throws. I don't care what anybody says. I've watched a lot of him. He never takes it and rips it in there. And you can say what you want but, man, you've got to be able to crease that ball every once in a while. We see it every week in these games. Hey, he can develop it but even in the USC game, you know, he's very careful with it, guides it a lot. That's what I see. "There's not a lot of rotation on the ball and there's not a tremendous amount of power. Not that you need to have that power arm. I'm not saying you've got to have that exclusively but, man, it sure helps when you can do that because there's four or five plays a game it is about arm strength. And sometimes quarterbacks who don't have it, they pass those plays up. Why? Well, they go, 'I don't know if I can make that throw,' so they throw it short. That's why I'm a little more reserved in my judgment than everybody else."

I see that exactly. Everyone wants to talk about how he throws such a "catchable" ball. That's great. But I want a guy that throw a rope when needed. I'm not seeing that as much from Luck. I see it more like Simms does here.Again, not saying he won't be a good NFL QB. I just don't buy the Lebron James can't miss superstar label just yet.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

It all comes back to what I said earlier. People don't like being wrong. If Luck throws for 4,000 yards next year, people will not be telling us to look out!, because Rick Mirer once looked good, and he sucked. He's so good, the worst thing people can say is, "Well, he might never develop. It happens!"

Grasping at straws.

Sure. Nobody likes being wrong. I think everyone would agree with that.But I don't agree with the other point. I've been as loud a Cam Newton fan as anyone I know, but Vince Young and Rick Mirer are totally valid points to consider.

I still think Newton (and Dalton and Ponder even) are the stories of the year though. Fantastic.

J

You mean the idea that a rookie QB could do well, but not continue to grow and become a good NFL QB in the future, right?

Yes. Rick Mirer and Vince Young are two examples of that.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

It all comes back to what I said earlier. People don't like being wrong. If Luck throws for 4,000 yards next year, people will not be telling us to look out!, because Rick Mirer once looked good, and he sucked. He's so good, the worst thing people can say is, "Well, he might never develop. It happens!"Grasping at straws.

Sure. Nobody likes being wrong. I think everyone would agree with that.But I don't agree with the other point. I've been as loud a Cam Newton fan as anyone I know, but Vince Young and Rick Mirer are totally valid points to consider.I still think Newton (and Dalton and Ponder even) are the stories of the year though. Fantastic.J

I think the points would be more valid Cam's performance was similar to Young or Mirer.

Sure. I'm just saying they're a long ways from grasping at straws.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

But I don't agree with the other point. I've been as loud a Cam Newton fan as anyone I know, but Vince Young and Rick Mirer are totally valid points to consider.

I think they are valid in the sense that it is not a lock that good-looking young QBs don't always build on good rookie years. And if one was debating Cam Newton in a vacuum, it might be a reason for (some) concern. Some, not much. It's not like it is an epidemic. I mean, it's worth noting. Not every good rookie year means long term success. I think it's a wash, at best. Because the easy argument that you can make against Luck is, not every top college prospect becomes an elite NFL QB. People are not even discussing the possibility that Luck will be anything but a star, right from Day 1.

Cool. I think we agree on this.J

 

[Smack Tripper]

Newton has already proven himself against real NFL teams.

No matter how much potential everyone thinks Luck has, it is still unproven at the NFL level.

Count me in for this line of thinking. I also seriously underestimated Newton, but the pendeliumm may have swung too far the other way now. There are flaws in his game to be exploited, and the next chapter of Newton joining the elite will be whether or not he can adjust and keep adjusting and adapting. I guess part of the halo of success is, I feel like he WILL make that adjustment.

Luck, he should be good, but I'm not sure about his arm.

Just curious as to what those flaws are?The only thing I've seen is some poor decision making at the end of games. The way Cam was throwing the ball last week, you'd be hard pressed to find another NFL QB that could make the same throws. If the Panthers can find one WR2 that is as talented as the first guy off the bench on most other NFL teams Cam will take the next step forward.

I haven't seen every snap of panther football so I'll be upfront with that. But the potential weaknesses will be the more exotic packages he'll face, even this season, as it becomes clear that you don't want to let him beat you. I think it was articulated far better up the thread about the tendency to respect and work from the pocket vs the instinct to use what god gave you and improvise outside of the pocket. It's a great ability to have but if you get flushed out and bite too frequently, I think you're more apt to turn the ball over one way or the other, as well as put yourself out for bigger and harder hits. I also think its much different playing soft coverage when you're trailing versus staying competitive for 60'minutes. I think the turnovers are correctable and also a byproduct of winging it because you're trailing and being young, but they are a red flag at the moment. There are many who lived on talent and didn't absorb the game within the game within the game. Not saying cam cant or won't, he's fun to watch, I hope he does and based on his own evidenced will to win, I think be will, but until you do, it's speculation.

Sorry, but I think both points are invalid. Newton doesn't rely on his talents too quickly, in fact, he typically doesn't look to run until after the third read is made and nothing is available...or he is flushed out of the pocket. If he has receivers and there is protection, he rarely ever runs. In fact, here is a recent quote from Greg Cosell based on his observation of Newton..

Greg Cosell on Cam Newton: Have to drag him out of pocket w/ a ball & chain. Intuitively understands game played at highest level in pocket.

The second point isn't valid at all, because Carolina hasn't been down in games this season. The only game that they lost by more than one score was against Atlanta, where they actually led late in the game.

Newton certainly has to show that he can sustain what he has shown so far, but a lot of the negatives that are brought up about him are a case of people who haven't really watched him play this season. The one major thing that Newton will need to learn how to do going into the second half of the season and next year is closing out games. He has had three separate games this season where he had a chance to win from inside the redzone in the last two minutes of the game. One time, he completed a pass on fourth down that ended up a yard short, another time he rushed and ended up about two yards short. The last time was this past weekend, when he actually did produce a first a goal situation that was called back by penalty, eventually leading to a field goal attempt to take the game to overtime. Olindo Mare missed a 31 yard field goal though.

While he probably couldn't have done much differently last week, the other two games are situations where he will need to show that he can win in as the team moves forward. This team could easily have a winning record right now with just a few things breaking differently, and his success in the future will be based on how he continues to handle those moments.

It's actually a very similar situation to Manning's rookie season. He put up great numbers and put his team in a position to win almost every game, but they just kept ending up a little bit short. The next season, they went 13-3 and the rest is history. We'll see if Cam can follow in his footsteps.

This is fair, I knew they were close in the Green Bay game. I have looked but can't find a passing breakdown by quarter and half, but based on the splits I've seen, you're right on point one. But the fact of the matter is, even if you're getting one garbage drive in per game, its going to affect your digits over a 7 game sample. And as I said, I haven't come close to watching every snap of every game, I really have seen 4 Panther games and a half of another so my view of him is less than yours. The team around him stinks outside of Steve Smith, and he succeeds probably inspite of Fox, not because of him, so those are factors to consider, but I would say those game closing moments are going to be ones to watch. I think he'll find it, he's doing remarkable things for a player of his age.

A more interesting question than is he better than Luck might be, who had a better rookie season, him or Roethelsberger?

You should probably be aware that John Fox is now the coach of the Denver Broncos

Yes, I mean RR thinking as a defensive coordinator. Brainfart. I think I based Fox in some other thread.

 

[CalBear]

One analyst who's not necessarily over the moon with Luck's rare combination of poise, football acumen, ability to read defenses, and playbook intelligence is former New York Giants quarterback Phil Simms. Tuesday, on Sirius NFL Radio with Adam Schein and Rich Gannon, Simms said that while Luck does have some positive attributes, he's not buying in just yet."I think the hype is a little too much," Simms said. "I feel bad for him in that respect. I mean, [how's] he going to do to match what they say he can do? There's a lot to him. I think his best quality, by far, is that he's big and strong and he's going to be able to move and run in the NFL. There's no question. I mean, this guy is strong. The throwing? He manages a game. I see all that."But the one thing I don't see, I just don't see big-time NFL throws. I don't care what anybody says. I've watched a lot of him. He never takes it and rips it in there. And you can say what you want but, man, you've got to be able to crease that ball every once in a while. We see it every week in these games. Hey, he can develop it but even in the USC game, you know, he's very careful with it, guides it a lot. That's what I see. "There's not a lot of rotation on the ball and there's not a tremendous amount of power. Not that you need to have that power arm. I'm not saying you've got to have that exclusively but, man, it sure helps when you can do that because there's four or five plays a game it is about arm strength. And sometimes quarterbacks who don't have it, they pass those plays up. Why? Well, they go, 'I don't know if I can make that throw,' so they throw it short. That's why I'm a little more reserved in my judgment than everybody else."

I see that exactly. Everyone wants to talk about how he throws such a "catchable" ball. That's great. But I want a guy that throw a rope when needed. I'm not seeing that as much from Luck. I see it more like Simms does here.Again, not saying he won't be a good NFL QB. I just don't buy the Lebron James can't miss superstar label just yet.J

One note on Lebron: There are 5 starters on a basketball team, and 22 starters on a football team. So basketball players with Lebron's physical attributes have a lot more control of their destiny than football players do. A lot of high-profile busts might have been successful if they landed in a different situation. I don't particularly think Luck is unable to drill a pass, but I agree that he doesn't zip it in there very often. The pick-6 against USC should have been thrown harder than it was. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkclXUyOfSo(The read is also questionable).

 

[Joe Bryant]

One analyst who's not necessarily over the moon with Luck's rare combination of poise, football acumen, ability to read defenses, and playbook intelligence is former New York Giants quarterback Phil Simms. Tuesday, on Sirius NFL Radio with Adam Schein and Rich Gannon, Simms said that while Luck does have some positive attributes, he's not buying in just yet."I think the hype is a little too much," Simms said. "I feel bad for him in that respect. I mean, [how's] he going to do to match what they say he can do? There's a lot to him. I think his best quality, by far, is that he's big and strong and he's going to be able to move and run in the NFL. There's no question. I mean, this guy is strong. The throwing? He manages a game. I see all that."But the one thing I don't see, I just don't see big-time NFL throws. I don't care what anybody says. I've watched a lot of him. He never takes it and rips it in there. And you can say what you want but, man, you've got to be able to crease that ball every once in a while. We see it every week in these games. Hey, he can develop it but even in the USC game, you know, he's very careful with it, guides it a lot. That's what I see. "There's not a lot of rotation on the ball and there's not a tremendous amount of power. Not that you need to have that power arm. I'm not saying you've got to have that exclusively but, man, it sure helps when you can do that because there's four or five plays a game it is about arm strength. And sometimes quarterbacks who don't have it, they pass those plays up. Why? Well, they go, 'I don't know if I can make that throw,' so they throw it short. That's why I'm a little more reserved in my judgment than everybody else."

I see that exactly. Everyone wants to talk about how he throws such a "catchable" ball. That's great. But I want a guy that throw a rope when needed. I'm not seeing that as much from Luck. I see it more like Simms does here.Again, not saying he won't be a good NFL QB. I just don't buy the Lebron James can't miss superstar label just yet.J

One note on Lebron: There are 5 starters on a basketball team, and 22 starters on a football team. So basketball players with Lebron's physical attributes have a lot more control of their destiny than football players do. A lot of high-profile busts might have been successful if they landed in a different situation. I don't particularly think Luck is unable to drill a pass, but I agree that he doesn't zip it in there very often. The pick-6 against USC should have been thrown harder than it was. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkclXUyOfSo(The read is also questionable).

I agree. Lebron is just the one guy that comes to mind on the "can't miss" level that people are putting Luck up to. I have never seen anything like it. People that I respect a good bit are just going nuts over Luck. I can't remember a guy with this much hype in the NFL.J

 

[Fensalk]

I will go with Newton, and here's why:

1. He is making the NFL his freaking playground. Imagine if he wasn't on a team that was bad enough to have the #1 pick last year.

2. No mini-camp, abbreviated training camp, one decent WR, a defense that has no linebackers left, and is letting up points as fast as Cam can score them. And people say he is gonna regress? Hey fellas, this might be the worst Cam is ever gonna be. Wrap your noggin around that one. Wait till he learns to read NFL defenses better. Wait till he makes better decisions.

Fact is, if Luck comes in and rips it up after 8 weeks, no one is going to say, "Well, wait till teams learn to gameplan against him." And the reason, whether people want to admit it or not, is because everyone was wrong about Cam Newton. Talk about grasping at straws. This isn't some young pitcher that only throws the high heater, and everyone catches on.

Teams are going to gameplan against him? Sweet! Any of you amateur Belichicks got him figured out yet? Here's my call: Defend the whole dang field. Make sure you spy Cam, in case he takes off. Oh, and cover Stewart and the two tight ends on the short stuff. But make sure you defend 50 yards downfield, because if Cam gets pressure, and buys some time, one of these WRs is going to head for the end zone, and Cam is going to flick a 50 yard pass while checking out the hottie in the 3rd row. Gameplan, my nuts.

No knock to Luck, I have no reason to believe he won't be a perennial Pro Bowler, but if Luck had these numbers in his 4th year, everyone would be happy.

Many QBs enter the NFL and never progress. I was in the Joe Flacco thread the other day discussing how Flacco is basically the same QB he was in college, with the same flaws. Cam may never read defenses well. He may never make better decisions. But I can also tell that there is no flaw in Andrew Luck's game. Luck has a strong arm, quick release, great field vision, goes through his progressions, he can run, he throws well on the run.This thread tells me a lot of people don't appreciate just how amazing it is to see a college QB with no weaknesses in his game.

Of course I'd take Luck over Cam Newton.

If Cam never progresses, he will still be an excellent NFL QB. He is currently on pace for...4780 yards passing

574 yards rushing

36 total touchdowns (22 passing)

18 interceptions

Your point is odd though, because Newton has clearly ALREADY progressed from his time in college.

I think both Cam and Luck can be franchise QBs. So when asking me to choose one, the hairs I split obviously must be VERY fine. I'm going to have to nitpick the slightest detail. Cam needs to show he has progressed on a longer term basis for me. So I'll take Luck.

 

[Fensalk]

One analyst who's not necessarily over the moon with Luck's rare combination of poise, football acumen, ability to read defenses, and playbook intelligence is former New York Giants quarterback Phil Simms. Tuesday, on Sirius NFL Radio with Adam Schein and Rich Gannon, Simms said that while Luck does have some positive attributes, he's not buying in just yet."I think the hype is a little too much," Simms said. "I feel bad for him in that respect. I mean, [how's] he going to do to match what they say he can do? There's a lot to him. I think his best quality, by far, is that he's big and strong and he's going to be able to move and run in the NFL. There's no question. I mean, this guy is strong. The throwing? He manages a game. I see all that."But the one thing I don't see, I just don't see big-time NFL throws. I don't care what anybody says. I've watched a lot of him. He never takes it and rips it in there. And you can say what you want but, man, you've got to be able to crease that ball every once in a while. We see it every week in these games. Hey, he can develop it but even in the USC game, you know, he's very careful with it, guides it a lot. That's what I see. "There's not a lot of rotation on the ball and there's not a tremendous amount of power. Not that you need to have that power arm. I'm not saying you've got to have that exclusively but, man, it sure helps when you can do that because there's four or five plays a game it is about arm strength. And sometimes quarterbacks who don't have it, they pass those plays up. Why? Well, they go, 'I don't know if I can make that throw,' so they throw it short. That's why I'm a little more reserved in my judgment than everybody else."

I see that exactly. Everyone wants to talk about how he throws such a "catchable" ball. That's great. But I want a guy that throw a rope when needed. I'm not seeing that as much from Luck. I see it more like Simms does here.Again, not saying he won't be a good NFL QB. I just don't buy the Lebron James can't miss superstar label just yet.J

One note on Lebron: There are 5 starters on a basketball team, and 22 starters on a football team. So basketball players with Lebron's physical attributes have a lot more control of their destiny than football players do. A lot of high-profile busts might have been successful if they landed in a different situation. I don't particularly think Luck is unable to drill a pass, but I agree that he doesn't zip it in there very often. The pick-6 against USC should have been thrown harder than it was. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkclXUyOfSo(The read is also questionable).

I agree. Lebron is just the one guy that comes to mind on the "can't miss" level that people are putting Luck up to. I have never seen anything like it. People that I respect a good bit are just going nuts over Luck. I can't remember a guy with this much hype in the NFL.J

The most hype I ever saw was for Reggie Bush. The guy was cutting major endorsement deals before playing a down in the NFL. His face was everywhere.

 

[Truman]

I am a Panthers fan and I was devastated when Luck decided to go back to college, and even more upset when Newton was picked (or at least in the weeks leading up to the draft when everyone knew Newton was going #1). I thought the team should have done the reasonable thing and grabbed a game changing defensive lineman. While the Panthers definitely could still use that lineman, I couldn't be happier with what they got in Newton. I'll admit that I was wrong about the kid, and he's proving himself to be a great rookie and a surprisingly impressive leader on the field and through his dealings with the media.

I think Luck will be good and it's certainly possible that he's the next Peyton Manning, but I'm perfectly happy with where the Panthers are with their franchise QB. I remember when Matt Leinart was a can't miss prospect as well. I'll take the guy who has proven his skills in the NFL already.

ummm.... Leinart was NEVER "can't miss""can't miss" QBs go at pick #1, nine teams don't pass on "can't miss"

as for the discussion, we all raved about Vince and Vick when they were running all over the place their rookie years ... these running QB guys... Steve Young MAYBE, (for whatever reason who knows) DO NOT WIN SUPER BOWLS

guys with Luck's skillset do

Leinart was an absolute lock to go # 1 to the 49ers.......but he went back to school to study ballroom dancing and they took Alex Smith instead. He slid because he went back to school and Vince Young was the top QB taken after one of the great bowl game performances of all time.

 

[Raider Nation]

People that I respect a good bit are just going nuts over Luck. I can't remember a guy with this much hype in the NFL.

The most hype I ever saw was for Reggie Bush. The guy was cutting major endorsement deals before playing a down in the NFL.

Ahem...

 

[massraider]

as for the discussion, we all raved about Vince and Vick when they were running all over the place their rookie years ... these running QB guys... Steve Young MAYBE, (for whatever reason who knows) DO NOT WIN SUPER BOWLS

guys with Luck's skillset do

Agreed. Those running QBs don't win titles. It has been proven time and again, Super Bowl QBs have to be able to sit in the pocket, and pick apart a defense. This is actually my #1 argument about Tebow. And if we were talking about a running QB, like Vick or Young, I would agree with you.We aren't.

We are talking about a kid that is passing quite well, that happens to be able to run.

You really don't want to call this kid a running QB that needs to develop. Because if you look at other running QBs throughout history, he's so far ahead of their numbers, it's laughable.

Consider:

Cam has 2393 passing yards. 11 TDs, 9 INTs. All of those numbers are already better than what Steve Young did his first year as a starter, his 2nd year in the league. That's 14 games for Young, 8 for Cam. Steve Young didn't throw for a 60% until his 5th year in the league, when he only started 3 games. Now, Steve played for a terrible Bucs team, but Cam is playing for a terrible Carolina team. Now, this isn't apples to apples, 20 years later, I know this. But Young was a running QB that developed, and everyone thought he was a better passer than Cam coming out of college. He went to BYU, for Pete's sake. Cam beats him in every passing metric.

Vince Young? Young's career bests are 2546 passing yards, and 12 TDs. Those are season totals, obviously. Cam will probably surpass both those, this weekend. Comparing Young to Newton makes this exercise too easy.

Vick? Well, he was able to match Cam's 60% completion percentage. When he was 30 years old, in Philly, his 8th year in the league. He matched Cam's 11 TD passes, in week 10 of his second year in the league. Cam has already had a better season passing than Vick did until last year in Philly.

He is going to throw for more yards and TDs as a rookie than Tom Brady and Carson Palmer did their first year as starters (neither were rookies). If he throws for another 1000 yards and 8 TDs, in the remaining 8 games, he will have a had a better year than any of Brett Favre's first two years as a starter in Green Bay.

If he throws for another 1000 yards and 12 TDs this year, it's a better year than Philip Rivers had his first year as starter, in his 3rd year in the league.

Hey, when these running QBs develop through history, they start to put up passing numbers that Cam Newton has either done already, or is on pace for.

 

[Fensalk]

The problem with those running QBs was evident when Kordell Stewart was playing for the Steelers vs the Patriots in those AFC title games. There are times where you need to be an elite passer against top defenses to rally your team from behind late in the 4th quarter to win a game. Kordell, as effective as he was running the ball, could not do it. He could not be a running QB to make up 75 yards less than a minute to come back and win. He has to pass.

 

[CalBear]

The problem with those running QBs was evident when Kordell Stewart was playing for the Steelers vs the Patriots in those AFC title games. There are times where you need to be an elite passer against top defenses to rally your team from behind late in the 4th quarter to win a game. Kordell, as effective as he was running the ball, could not do it. He could not be a running QB to make up 75 yards less than a minute to come back and win. He has to pass.

It is clear that you need to be able to pass to win. But being able to run doesn't stop you from being able to pass.

 

[Reepicheep]

The problem with those running QBs was evident when Kordell Stewart was playing for the Steelers vs the Patriots in those AFC title games. There are times where you need to be an elite passer against top defenses to rally your team from behind late in the 4th quarter to win a game. Kordell, as effective as he was running the ball, could not do it. He could not be a running QB to make up 75 yards less than a minute to come back and win. He has to pass.

It is clear that you need to be able to pass to win. But being able to run doesn't stop you from being able to pass.

I would say this is one of the key logic disconnects that many people are not able to overcome, for whatever reason.

 

[solorca]

I am a Panthers fan and I was devastated when Luck decided to go back to college, and even more upset when Newton was picked (or at least in the weeks leading up to the draft when everyone knew Newton was going #1). I thought the team should have done the reasonable thing and grabbed a game changing defensive lineman. While the Panthers definitely could still use that lineman, I couldn't be happier with what they got in Newton. I'll admit that I was wrong about the kid, and he's proving himself to be a great rookie and a surprisingly impressive leader on the field and through his dealings with the media.

I think Luck will be good and it's certainly possible that he's the next Peyton Manning, but I'm perfectly happy with where the Panthers are with their franchise QB. I remember when Matt Leinart was a can't miss prospect as well. I'll take the guy who has proven his skills in the NFL already.

ummm.... Leinart was NEVER "can't miss""can't miss" QBs go at pick #1, nine teams don't pass on "can't miss"

as for the discussion, we all raved about Vince and Vick when they were running all over the place their rookie years ... these running QB guys... Steve Young MAYBE, (for whatever reason who knows) DO NOT WIN SUPER BOWLS

guys with Luck's skillset do

Leinart was compared to Manning just as often as Luck was prior to going back to college. He dropped after he went back, because he put up good but not great numbers that season and was outplayed by Vince Young. Reggie Bush was also a "can't miss" prospect and the Texans were raked over the coals for passing up on him. Many analysts even suggested that it was the dumbest move in the history of the NFL draft. Vick and Young were run first quarterbacks. Newton is a pocket passer who has the ability to run (contrary to what people who haven't watched him seem to think). It has taken Vick a decade plus to come close to passing skills that Newton ALREADY has. I don't see why you would discount Steve Young from your point, since he has the most comparable skills to Newton as any of the other "running QB guys" that you reference...and interestingly enough, he's the one who won titles.

 

[solorca]

The problem with those running QBs was evident when Kordell Stewart was playing for the Steelers vs the Patriots in those AFC title games. There are times where you need to be an elite passer against top defenses to rally your team from behind late in the 4th quarter to win a game. Kordell, as effective as he was running the ball, could not do it. He could not be a running QB to make up 75 yards less than a minute to come back and win. He has to pass.

It is clear that you need to be able to pass to win. But being able to run doesn't stop you from being able to pass.

This is what people just don't seem to get. Cam Newton CAN run, he doesn't HAVE to. Newton is an excellent pocket passer already, but because he also has the ability to run, people seem to think that it is all he is able to do. His ability to run adds to his game, rather than taking something away from it. He is one of the first duel threats in the NFL to actually be a TRUE duel threat. If you took away his running, he's still doing more as a passer than any other rookie QB in history.

 

[BassNBrew]

I usually just lurk here and soak up the knowledge (I've never posted), but I felt the need to post here. In a few short months Cam has endeared himself to me as a Panthers fan and I would take him easily over Luck, even if Luck turns into the next Manning. Try reading that sentence to me on draft night a few months ago.

Very happy for you Panthers fans. This is totally OT, but since there's lots of Panthers fans in here, just wanted to say, I have been to Packers games in Philly, Baltimore, and DC. This year I went to the Panthers game. Far and away the best tailgating & stadium experience I have ever had as an opposing fan. /hijack

As a Panthers fan I was at a Packers/panther game 5-6 years ago. One of the Packers fan start catching crap from a drunk Panthers fan and it got rather heated. The Panthers' fans nearby got security and pointed out the Panther fan as the instigator and he was removed from the game.

 

[Touchdown Syndrome]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

Yes, about the bolded....what is his record again? 2-6?Now that's not all on him, I realize that. He's been great. I am happy for you Panther fans. He's a keeper. Certainly a much better QB than you have ever had. I can see Cam turning around the franchise and winning as early as next year. But the point, the main point really is how many dual threat QB's have won SB's? one out of 45. Those are the cold, hard, stats. Now maybe Cam is the guy that breaks the mold. He certainly could break the trend. Wouldn't surprise me, either. Just stating a preference for the traditional pocket passer in terms of the overall goal of winning rings. I don't much care about passing titles, fantasy stats, or even probowls. SB rings are all that matter.

 

[th3f00l]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

Yes, about the bolded....what is his record again? 2-6?Now that's not all on him, I realize that. He's been great. I am happy for you Panther fans. He's a keeper. Certainly a much better QB than you have ever had. I can see Cam turning around the franchise and winning as early as next year. But the point, the main point really is how many dual threat QB's have won SB's? one out of 45. Those are the cold, hard, stats. Now maybe Cam is the guy that breaks the mold. He certainly could break the trend. Wouldn't surprise me, either. Just stating a preference for the traditional pocket passer in terms of the overall goal of winning rings. I don't much care about passing titles, fantasy stats, or even probowls. SB rings are all that matter.

This argument is a little flawed. What percent of NFL QBs are runners? How does that compare to the percentage NFL QBs with rings that are runners? If one in every 45 QBs had a superbowl ring that would be nuts.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

Yes, about the bolded....what is his record again? 2-6?Now that's not all on him, I realize that. He's been great. I am happy for you Panther fans. He's a keeper. Certainly a much better QB than you have ever had. I can see Cam turning around the franchise and winning as early as next year. But the point, the main point really is how many dual threat QB's have won SB's? one out of 45. Those are the cold, hard, stats. Now maybe Cam is the guy that breaks the mold. He certainly could break the trend. Wouldn't surprise me, either. Just stating a preference for the traditional pocket passer in terms of the overall goal of winning rings. I don't much care about passing titles, fantasy stats, or even probowls. SB rings are all that matter.

This argument is a little flawed. What percent of NFL QBs are runners? How does that compare to the percentage NFL QBs with rings that are runners? If one in every 45 QBs had a superbowl ring that would be nuts.

I think it's a reflection on the way it's been in the NFL for a long, long time. It could be that we are entering a new era where dual threat QB's are the new blueprint. Maybe the league is overdue with that change. I'm kind of rooting for Cam, (seriously, although I know most don't believe it) but at the same time, I can't ignore the tried and true formula of pocket passers. Now if Cam can continue to set the league on fire with his passing and not run as much, my opinion on his outlook will change. Dual threat QB's expose themselves to vicious hits too often and are more susceptible imo to injury. Cam looks like dynamite both passing and running. But let's wait to annoint him into the HOF for now.

 

[th3f00l]

I usually just lurk here and soak up the knowledge (I've never posted), but I felt the need to post here. In a few short months Cam has endeared himself to me as a Panthers fan and I would take him easily over Luck, even if Luck turns into the next Manning. Try reading that sentence to me on draft night a few months ago.

Very happy for you Panthers fans. This is totally OT, but since there's lots of Panthers fans in here, just wanted to say, I have been to Packers games in Philly, Baltimore, and DC. This year I went to the Panthers game. Far and away the best tailgating & stadium experience I have ever had as an opposing fan. /hijack

As a Panthers fan I was at a Packers/panther game 5-6 years ago. One of the Packers fan start catching crap from a drunk Panthers fan and it got rather heated. The Panthers' fans nearby got security and pointed out the Panther fan as the instigator and he was removed from the game.

I was at a cowboys panthers game a few years back, and there were probably an equal number of cowboys fans. Also, a panthers fan sitting next to me was removed for instigating a skirmish.

 

[Touchdown Syndrome]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

Yes, about the bolded....what is his record again? 2-6?Now that's not all on him, I realize that. He's been great. I am happy for you Panther fans. He's a keeper. Certainly a much better QB than you have ever had. I can see Cam turning around the franchise and winning as early as next year. But the point, the main point really is how many dual threat QB's have won SB's? one out of 45. Those are the cold, hard, stats. Now maybe Cam is the guy that breaks the mold. He certainly could break the trend. Wouldn't surprise me, either. Just stating a preference for the traditional pocket passer in terms of the overall goal of winning rings. I don't much care about passing titles, fantasy stats, or even probowls. SB rings are all that matter.

He's on a team that was not competitive last year and had 2 wins for the entire 2010 season.The 2-6 record should be near-irrelevant on a rebuilding team. Why would you even bring it up? Nobody expects the Panthers to go from 2-14 to a playoff team.

The fact that Cam has lost most of the first 8 games of his NFL career has zero to do with a Luck vs. Newton discussion.

Anyone being reasonable would look at the progress and longer-term outlook of the team and it's QB.

The Panthers are competitive now....mostly because of Newton.

Heck, with a little more experience/talent they could have won a couple more games.

 

[Reepicheep]

I usually just lurk here and soak up the knowledge (I've never posted), but I felt the need to post here. In a few short months Cam has endeared himself to me as a Panthers fan and I would take him easily over Luck, even if Luck turns into the next Manning. Try reading that sentence to me on draft night a few months ago.

Very happy for you Panthers fans. This is totally OT, but since there's lots of Panthers fans in here, just wanted to say, I have been to Packers games in Philly, Baltimore, and DC. This year I went to the Panthers game. Far and away the best tailgating & stadium experience I have ever had as an opposing fan. /hijack

As a Panthers fan I was at a Packers/panther game 5-6 years ago. One of the Packers fan start catching crap from a drunk Panthers fan and it got rather heated. The Panthers' fans nearby got security and pointed out the Panther fan as the instigator and he was removed from the game.

I was at a cowboys panthers game a few years back, and there were probably an equal number of cowboys fans. Also, a panthers fan sitting next to me was removed for instigating a skirmish.

I didn't witness any altercations or trouble. The Panthers fans in front of us were super cool and we chatted and traded friendly barbs the whole game. During tailgating we were talking and sharing food & drink both ways with the crew next to us. (different group) There was one guy on the way into the stadium that apparently got started the night before and never stopped, who had some choice words for us, but you're going to get your share of those at any sporting event.Highlight of the day was the dude that had a tabacco leaf attached to his carolina-blue hard hat.

 

[Reepicheep]

Yes, about the bolded....what is his record again? 2-6?

How many wins over the previous season are you expecting Luck to provide for his future team? Carolina's offense has gone from 32nd in scoring to 14th. Do you see Luck being part of an 18-spot swing like this? Just wondering.

 

[GDogg]

I am a Panthers fan and I was devastated when Luck decided to go back to college, and even more upset when Newton was picked (or at least in the weeks leading up to the draft when everyone knew Newton was going #1). I thought the team should have done the reasonable thing and grabbed a game changing defensive lineman. While the Panthers definitely could still use that lineman, I couldn't be happier with what they got in Newton. I'll admit that I was wrong about the kid, and he's proving himself to be a great rookie and a surprisingly impressive leader on the field and through his dealings with the media.

I think Luck will be good and it's certainly possible that he's the next Peyton Manning, but I'm perfectly happy with where the Panthers are with their franchise QB. I remember when Matt Leinart was a can't miss prospect as well. I'll take the guy who has proven his skills in the NFL already.

ummm.... Leinart was NEVER "can't miss""can't miss" QBs go at pick #1, nine teams don't pass on "can't miss"

as for the discussion, we all raved about Vince and Vick when they were running all over the place their rookie years ... these running QB guys... Steve Young MAYBE, (for whatever reason who knows) DO NOT WIN SUPER BOWLS

guys with Luck's skillset do

Leinart was compared to Manning just as often as Luck was prior to going back to college. He dropped after he went back, because he put up good but not great numbers that season and was outplayed by Vince Young. Reggie Bush was also a "can't miss" prospect and the Texans were raked over the coals for passing up on him. Many analysts even suggested that it was the dumbest move in the history of the NFL draft. Vick and Young were run first quarterbacks. Newton is a pocket passer who has the ability to run (contrary to what people who haven't watched him seem to think). It has taken Vick a decade plus to come close to passing skills that Newton ALREADY has. I don't see why you would discount Steve Young from your point, since he has the most comparable skills to Newton as any of the other "running QB guys" that you reference...and interestingly enough, he's the one who won titles.

No, he wasn't. One guy thought he would be great. Mel Kiper, Jr. Most other experts saw the many warts Leinart had. He was definitely projected to be a first rounder, but he was never considered an all-time great prospect.

 

[CalBear]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

Yes, about the bolded....what is his record again? 2-6?Now that's not all on him, I realize that. He's been great. I am happy for you Panther fans. He's a keeper. Certainly a much better QB than you have ever had. I can see Cam turning around the franchise and winning as early as next year. But the point, the main point really is how many dual threat QB's have won SB's? one out of 45.

You're ignoring Elway, Rodgers, and many other QBs who were dual threats. Elway actually has more rushing TDs in Super Bowls than he has passing TDs. Those guys don't run like Vick but they're clearly dual threats.

 

[Concept Coop]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

I don't understand how people don't understand this. But, opinions not based on logic cannot be undone using logic.

 

[Reepicheep]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

I don't understand how people don't understand this. But, opinions not based on logic cannot be undone using logic.

Well, you can't really fault someone for not having seen actual games, the Panthers aren't getting any TV time yet. (Sunday Ticket not withstanding) The only reasons I've seen games is because I went to one, and they played the Redskins. Maybe if we're lucky they'll flex a game to Sunday night like CAR @ DET or ATL @ CAR. Not really holding my breath though. :( Back to the point, you most certainly can fault someone for not watching highlights or looking at stats. I think the people that still believe in their minds that Cam is some 2nd-rate passer leaning on his run game are just being willfully ignorant at this point.

 

[Concept Coop]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

I don't understand how people don't understand this. But, opinions not based on logic cannot be undone using logic.

Well, you can't really fault someone for not having seen actual games, the Panthers aren't getting any TV time yet. (Sunday Ticket not withstanding) The only reasons I've seen games is because I went to one, and they played the Redskins. Maybe if we're lucky they'll flex a game to Sunday night like CAR @ DET or ATL @ CAR. Not really holding my breath though. :( Back to the point, you most certainly can fault someone for not watching highlights or looking at stats. I think the people that still believe in their minds that Cam is some 2nd-rate passer leaning on his run game are just being willfully ignorant at this point.

I hope, for their sake, it is just a case of them not having watched him play. But the logic that his 40 time hurts him...

 

[mbuehner]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

Yes, about the bolded....what is his record again? 2-6?Now that's not all on him, I realize that. He's been great. I am happy for you Panther fans. He's a keeper. Certainly a much better QB than you have ever had. I can see Cam turning around the franchise and winning as early as next year. But the point, the main point really is how many dual threat QB's have won SB's? one out of 45. Those are the cold, hard, stats. Now maybe Cam is the guy that breaks the mold. He certainly could break the trend. Wouldn't surprise me, either. Just stating a preference for the traditional pocket passer in terms of the overall goal of winning rings. I don't much care about passing titles, fantasy stats, or even probowls. SB rings are all that matter.

By that logic you should never draft a black qb. They dont win superbowls. You see the flaw in your logic? There have only been 29 quarterbacks to ever win a superbowl in 44 years. That makes Steve Young 3% of the Superbowl QB club. What is the percentage of all QBs who are 'running QBs' in the last 44 years? There have been 13 that ran for more than 500y in a season (some did it more than once). On the other hand there have been 1674 QBs that have thrown for at least 1000 yards. That makes the runners .78% of all QBs. Which means that the Steve Young example shows running QBs win Superbowls 3.84x more often than you would expect. Wait, is it stupid to look at sample sizes as small as the Superbowl and draw conclusions like that? Yes. YES! Thats the point.

 

[Reepicheep]

Some pretty massive ownage by mbuehner right there.

 

[solorca]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

Yes, about the bolded....what is his record again? 2-6?Now that's not all on him, I realize that. He's been great. I am happy for you Panther fans. He's a keeper. Certainly a much better QB than you have ever had. I can see Cam turning around the franchise and winning as early as next year. But the point, the main point really is how many dual threat QB's have won SB's? one out of 45. Those are the cold, hard, stats. Now maybe Cam is the guy that breaks the mold. He certainly could break the trend. Wouldn't surprise me, either. Just stating a preference for the traditional pocket passer in terms of the overall goal of winning rings. I don't much care about passing titles, fantasy stats, or even probowls. SB rings are all that matter.

By that logic you should never draft a black qb. They dont win superbowls. You see the flaw in your logic? There have only been 29 quarterbacks to ever win a superbowl in 44 years. That makes Steve Young 3% of the Superbowl QB club. What is the percentage of all QBs who are 'running QBs' in the last 44 years? There have been 13 that ran for more than 500y in a season (some did it more than once). On the other hand there have been 1674 QBs that have thrown for at least 1000 yards. That makes the runners .78% of all QBs. Which means that the Steve Young example shows running QBs win Superbowls 3.84x more often than you would expect. Wait, is it stupid to look at sample sizes as small as the Superbowl and draw conclusions like that? Yes. YES! Thats the point.

Fantastic post, although I would probably use a 3,000 passing yards number to be a little more fair. The point still remains though, that only 13 QB's have rushed for more than 500 yards. We aren't really working with a large sample size.It took almost 40 Super Bowls for the first black head coach to win a title, but there have been a few since that point. Did black coaches just learn how to do it, or maybe, just maybe, the sample size was too small?

 

[mr roboto]

To everyone chiming in with the nonsensical "running QBs just don't win games, just look at Kordell, VY, (some genius even included Moon,lol), blah blah blah hurrr durrr"...PLEASE do us all a favor and watch some Panthers games! If you're too lazy to do that, then look at Cam's passing numbers.

He's putting up rookie record PASSING numbers, oh and he just so happens to be such an athletic freak that he can run effectively when needed.

Yes, about the bolded....what is his record again? 2-6?Now that's not all on him, I realize that. He's been great. I am happy for you Panther fans. He's a keeper. Certainly a much better QB than you have ever had. I can see Cam turning around the franchise and winning as early as next year. But the point, the main point really is how many dual threat QB's have won SB's? one out of 45. Those are the cold, hard, stats. Now maybe Cam is the guy that breaks the mold. He certainly could break the trend. Wouldn't surprise me, either. Just stating a preference for the traditional pocket passer in terms of the overall goal of winning rings. I don't much care about passing titles, fantasy stats, or even probowls. SB rings are all that matter.

By that logic you should never draft a black qb. They dont win superbowls. You see the flaw in your logic? There have only been 29 quarterbacks to ever win a superbowl in 44 years. That makes Steve Young 3% of the Superbowl QB club. What is the percentage of all QBs who are 'running QBs' in the last 44 years? There have been 13 that ran for more than 500y in a season (some did it more than once). On the other hand there have been 1674 QBs that have thrown for at least 1000 yards. That makes the runners .78% of all QBs. Which means that the Steve Young example shows running QBs win Superbowls 3.84x more often than you would expect. Wait, is it stupid to look at sample sizes as small as the Superbowl and draw conclusions like that? Yes. YES! Thats the point.

Fantastic post.

Spatula. Pavement.

 

[mbuehner]

To be fair I did pull 1000yards passing out of the air and didnt scale the list so each QB only counts once, but i think cocktail napkin demonstrated the point well enough.