MCguidance
Footballguy
Locked in a very tight battle - anything of note?
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Stat Corrections - Week 14 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter MCguidance
- Start date
MCguidance
Footballguy
Yeah, Yahoo makes and applies corrections at that time. Just wondering if anything stood out (Dez's fumble a few weeks ago for example) or someone saw anything. I am on the other side so I'm hoping to hold on.
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
Two plays I was unsure of:
1. Chris Johnson fumble. The statistician credited him with a -14 yard play on the fumble but he was probably 2 yards behind the LOS when Von Miller forced the fumble. The ball then bounced backwards before being recovered. Should Johnson lose all of that yardage after the fumble?
2.Josh McCown's kneel down. It looked like he actually went forward about 1/2 a yard but was credited with a yard loss in the stats.
1. Chris Johnson fumble. The statistician credited him with a -14 yard play on the fumble but he was probably 2 yards behind the LOS when Von Miller forced the fumble. The ball then bounced backwards before being recovered. Should Johnson lose all of that yardage after the fumble?
2.Josh McCown's kneel down. It looked like he actually went forward about 1/2 a yard but was credited with a yard loss in the stats.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Yeah, this. ESPN had scored it one way heading into the Sunday Night game, so I only needed 3 points from Hartley to win. Hartley got me 7, but then ESPN changed the whole thing to passing yardage for Roethlisberger, and I lost by 1 anyway.enyce said:
Shutout
Footballguy
Can someone break that play down for me in terms of "will Antonio brown and the other 3-4 guys involved in that play get some receiving or rushing yards or something?"Yeah, this. ESPN had scored it one way heading into the Sunday Night game, so I only needed 3 points from Hartley to win. Hartley got me 7, but then ESPN changed the whole thing to passing yardage for Roethlisberger, and I lost by 1 anyway.enyce said:
Adam Harstad
Moderator
If I understand correctly how Elias scores it: The first guy who caught the pass (Sanders, iirc) gets a reception and credit for all of the yards he gained, counted as receiving yards. Everyone else does NOT get a reception, but they do get credit for all of the yards they gained, also counted as receiving yards. Ben gets credit for passing yards equal to the total length of the play from where it started to where it ended.Can someone break that play down for me in terms of "will Antonio brown and the other 3-4 guys involved in that play get some receiving or rushing yards or something?"Yeah, this. ESPN had scored it one way heading into the Sunday Night game, so I only needed 3 points from Hartley to win. Hartley got me 7, but then ESPN changed the whole thing to passing yardage for Roethlisberger, and I lost by 1 anyway.enyce said:
I believe it's already scored correctly in all of the league management sites (i.e. Ben's passing yardage total already includes that play). The only potential discrepancy is fact that Roethlisberger's last lateral was a forward lateral, and nothing after that point (basically, Brown's 55 yards) should have counted. But since the game was over and the play was unsuccessful, the play doesn't get reviewed. And since the play was never reviewed and ruled an illegal forward lateral, all of the yardage counts.
Or, to put it another way: if Brown hadn't stepped out of bounds, Big Ben and Antonio Brown would have likely scored FEWER fantasy points this week (as the play would have resulted in a touchdown, the review would have ruled Ben's lateral to be an illegal forward pass, and the last chunk of yardage would have gotten wiped out in its entirety).
Joe Summer
Footballguy
There are two other discrepancies: first, the play-by-play is listing it as a 62-yard play (PIT 26 to MIA 12), when in fact it was a 67-yard play (PIT 21 to MIA 12).However, the previous play by Emmanuel Sanders is ALSO listed with the wrong yardage. It was actually a 7 yard gain (PIT 14 to PIT 21), not a 12 yard gain.If I understand correctly how Elias scores it: The first guy who caught the pass (Sanders, iirc) gets a reception and credit for all of the yards he gained, counted as receiving yards. Everyone else does NOT get a reception, but they do get credit for all of the yards they gained, also counted as receiving yards. Ben gets credit for passing yards equal to the total length of the play from where it started to where it ended.Can someone break that play down for me in terms of "will Antonio brown and the other 3-4 guys involved in that play get some receiving or rushing yards or something?"Yeah, this. ESPN had scored it one way heading into the Sunday Night game, so I only needed 3 points from Hartley to win. Hartley got me 7, but then ESPN changed the whole thing to passing yardage for Roethlisberger, and I lost by 1 anyway.enyce said:
I believe it's already scored correctly in all of the league management sites (i.e. Ben's passing yardage total already includes that play). The only potential discrepancy is fact that Roethlisberger's last lateral was a forward lateral, and nothing after that point (basically, Brown's 55 yards) should have counted.
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Joe Summer
Footballguy
Sanders is currently credited with 57 receiving yards. However, I believe the correct total is 68. Here are his receptions:
5 yards
21 yards
12 yards
10 yards* -- assuming that he gets credit from the point where he caught Bell's lateral (11 yard line) to the point where he was down (21 yard line)
20 yards -- assuming that he gets credit from the correct line of scrimmage (21 yard line) to the point where Cotchery caught his lateral (41 yard line)
* since Bell's lateral was BEHIND the line of scrimmage, I'm not sure if Sanders gets credit for those 3 yards. If that's the case, then he'll only get credit for 7 net yards, giving him a total of 65.
5 yards
21 yards
12 yards
10 yards* -- assuming that he gets credit from the point where he caught Bell's lateral (11 yard line) to the point where he was down (21 yard line)
20 yards -- assuming that he gets credit from the correct line of scrimmage (21 yard line) to the point where Cotchery caught his lateral (41 yard line)
* since Bell's lateral was BEHIND the line of scrimmage, I'm not sure if Sanders gets credit for those 3 yards. If that's the case, then he'll only get credit for 7 net yards, giving him a total of 65.
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Joe Summer
Footballguy
Brown's receiving total and Roethlisberger's passing total seem to be correct (Ben was given 5 extra passing yards on the second-to-last play, but he had those same 5 yards taken away on the final play).
HOWEVER, Roethlisberger should get credit for ~5 receiving yards.
Other corrections:
Cotchery's receiving yards should be 57, not 62 (because he lateraled backwards 5 yards on the final play).
Bell's receiving yards should be 16 or 19, not 28. (He should lose 9 yards for the lateral on the last play, and he could also lose 3 yards for the negative catch on the previous play, but that might not count since it was behind the line of scrimmage.)
HOWEVER, Roethlisberger should get credit for ~5 receiving yards.
Other corrections:
Cotchery's receiving yards should be 57, not 62 (because he lateraled backwards 5 yards on the final play).
Bell's receiving yards should be 16 or 19, not 28. (He should lose 9 yards for the lateral on the last play, and he could also lose 3 yards for the negative catch on the previous play, but that might not count since it was behind the line of scrimmage.)
Shutout
Footballguy
Very good explanation. Thanks.If I understand correctly how Elias scores it: The first guy who caught the pass (Sanders, iirc) gets a reception and credit for all of the yards he gained, counted as receiving yards. Everyone else does NOT get a reception, but they do get credit for all of the yards they gained, also counted as receiving yards. Ben gets credit for passing yards equal to the total length of the play from where it started to where it ended.Can someone break that play down for me in terms of "will Antonio brown and the other 3-4 guys involved in that play get some receiving or rushing yards or something?"Yeah, this. ESPN had scored it one way heading into the Sunday Night game, so I only needed 3 points from Hartley to win. Hartley got me 7, but then ESPN changed the whole thing to passing yardage for Roethlisberger, and I lost by 1 anyway.enyce said:
I believe it's already scored correctly in all of the league management sites (i.e. Ben's passing yardage total already includes that play). The only potential discrepancy is fact that Roethlisberger's last lateral was a forward lateral, and nothing after that point (basically, Brown's 55 yards) should have counted. But since the game was over and the play was unsuccessful, the play doesn't get reviewed. And since the play was never reviewed and ruled an illegal forward lateral, all of the yardage counts.
Or, to put it another way: if Brown hadn't stepped out of bounds, Big Ben and Antonio Brown would have likely scored FEWER fantasy points this week (as the play would have resulted in a touchdown, the review would have ruled Ben's lateral to be an illegal forward pass, and the last chunk of yardage would have gotten wiped out in its entirety).
I guess this will be an interesting one because I'm sure there were league's where those points are critical (I see one league of mine with a narrow game that has Ben involved).
The Hank
Footballguy
GregR
Footballguy
I don't think most leagues have the corrected stats yet for the Pittsburgh lateral play. Maybe they corrected Antonio Brown, but checking MFL and ESPN, neither of them had the rest of the play right, and probably won't until tomorrow when Elias corrections come out.. As mentioned, Ben should gain around 5 receiving yards (caught lateral at about 27, advanced to 32 and ruled lateraled to the 32). Cotchery should drop about 5 receiving yards from the 62 he had previously and that I think most sites are still showing for him. I believe it was Bell that should lose 10 receiving yards.
By the way, the yardage for the player is based on where they got the ball, to where the next person catches the lateral (not where the lateral was made).
On a fumble, whether a strip or a pitch that a teammate failed to catch, the yardage would be from where you got possession, to where the ball was first touched by a player on either team, not counting the act of being stripped.
By the way, the yardage for the player is based on where they got the ball, to where the next person catches the lateral (not where the lateral was made).
On a fumble, whether a strip or a pitch that a teammate failed to catch, the yardage would be from where you got possession, to where the ball was first touched by a player on either team, not counting the act of being stripped.
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Squintz82
Footballguy
In the same boat here. Lost by 0.24, but my league uses 3 IDPs with tackle statistics. Hoping for even an assisted tackle in my favor for DaMeco Ryans, Barry Church, or Robert Quinn. Also had McCown playing so hoing he has a few yards being changed.
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MASSHOLE
Footballguy
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
The Calvin Johnson bump was a surprise.
Phenix
Footballguy
Seen someone get bounced for it this morning, dude is not happy.
Anyone else seen someones or been the one whose win got erased in the playoffs?
shader
Footballguy
Marauder
Footballguy
Yep. Put me in the playoffs in one league where our playoffs start this week. I thought I had lost the tiebreaker for the last playoff spot by less than a point. Now I'm in. i think it was the -9 yard for Bell that did it.
spodog
Footballguy
Side note on the way the MIA / PIT lateral circus is officially scored: 6 different guys (M Gilbert included) getting credit for receiving yardage on the same play yet with Sanders as the only one who is credited for a reception defies logic.
The Big Ben to to Sanders pass should be scored as a reception, and then all of the other laterals should be scored as rushing yardage totals, rather than receiving yardage totals. Basically, the receipt of a lateral is fundamentally the same as a RB receiving a backwards pitch from a QB, after which the RB rushes forward to attempt to gain yardage.
Seeing Big Ben's receiving stat line from last week of 0 catches for 5 receiving yards is just stupid.
The Big Ben to to Sanders pass should be scored as a reception, and then all of the other laterals should be scored as rushing yardage totals, rather than receiving yardage totals. Basically, the receipt of a lateral is fundamentally the same as a RB receiving a backwards pitch from a QB, after which the RB rushes forward to attempt to gain yardage.
Seeing Big Ben's receiving stat line from last week of 0 catches for 5 receiving yards is just stupid.
GregR
Footballguy
If there's a lateral on kickoff return or punt, should those be rushing yards? What if the defense laterals while returning a fumble or INT, do they turn into rushing yards after the lateral?
Hopefully you said "no" because it doesn't make much sense they would be. Which is why it works how it does. Whatever type of yardage was being gained by the person before the lateral continues to be gained after the lateral. A RB gains rushing yards not because "lateral = rushing yards" but because the QB who lateraled the ball was also considered as gaining rushing yards before the lateral. After a fumble recovery, any yards gained are fumble recovery yards, even with a lateral, etc.
There's only one reception because... there's only one reception. There's only one (legal) forward pass per play, so only one (legal) reception.
Hopefully you said "no" because it doesn't make much sense they would be. Which is why it works how it does. Whatever type of yardage was being gained by the person before the lateral continues to be gained after the lateral. A RB gains rushing yards not because "lateral = rushing yards" but because the QB who lateraled the ball was also considered as gaining rushing yards before the lateral. After a fumble recovery, any yards gained are fumble recovery yards, even with a lateral, etc.
There's only one reception because... there's only one reception. There's only one (legal) forward pass per play, so only one (legal) reception.
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
This is about as dumb as saying "Yards-after-the-catch should be scored as rushing yards, because they're fundamentally the same."
I don't get why it's so hard for some people to understand.
Those yards were all gained during the course of a receiving play, therefore they are receiving yards. If the play had started as an end around to Sanders then all the subsequent laterals and yards would have been during the course of a running play. So it'd be just as "stupid" to say a guy like Marcus Gilbert had 0 rushes for 5 yards as it is to Marcus Gilbert had 0 receptions for 5 yards. It's not a difficult concept; Gilbert doesn't get credit for a reception since he didn't catch a pass, he caught a lateral during a receiving play, but he still gained receiving yards during the course of that reception.
Those yards were all gained during the course of a receiving play, therefore they are receiving yards. If the play had started as an end around to Sanders then all the subsequent laterals and yards would have been during the course of a running play. So it'd be just as "stupid" to say a guy like Marcus Gilbert had 0 rushes for 5 yards as it is to Marcus Gilbert had 0 receptions for 5 yards. It's not a difficult concept; Gilbert doesn't get credit for a reception since he didn't catch a pass, he caught a lateral during a receiving play, but he still gained receiving yards during the course of that reception.
spodog
Footballguy
Disagree.Mr. Retukes said:
All receiving plays are designed to gain yards in two ways. Ball traveling through air, and receiver running with ball after catch.
My point is that just looking at a stat line, be it Ben's or anyone else's that reads 5 receiving yards on 0 catches is nonsensical.
spodog
Footballguy
Easy to understand that this is how the play is scored. It isn't a matter of understanding the way that the play is recorded.LTF said:
It is a matter of disagreeing with the way that the NFL statistics are recorded. This method isn't really consistent with how the NFL scores plays of a similar nature.
For example, when a receiver catches a ball thrown 20 yards past the line of scrimmage, then advances 5 more yards (5 yards of YAC), then fumbles the ball, the NFL doesn't insist on treating the subsequent actions on the play as receiving yardage. In this scenario, if the fumble is picked up on the fly by a TE who was downfield blocking for the WR and advanced another 10 yards, the TE running with the ball is classified as fumble recovery yardage or fumble return yardage.
The reasoning for this is the fumble was the action that ended the receiving portion of the play and the remainder of the play did not have to be categorized as receiving yardage.
So to be consistent, the NFL should categorize all action after a lateral as something distinct, like lateral yardage or simply classify it as rushing yardage.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
If a player had received a lateral after a fumble, would you expect his yards to be considered "rushing yards"?
Joe Summer
Footballguy
spodog
Footballguy
See post above.
So to be consistent, the NFL should categorize all action after a lateral as something distinct, like lateral yardage
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Not really. I pointed it out several times in the game thread the other day, but it never got addressed. Oh well. But I was expecting the correction because I saw the 10-yard catch and knew it was incorrectly listed as a 7-yard catch.
