Steeler fans are about to hate me, but... (1 Viewer)

[BlueOnion]

You don't think Sanders, also from Bettis' era, is clearly ahead of Bettis?

Marshall Faulk is a wash?  Um, yeah, okay. 

Barry Sanders was a Hall of Fame Quiter, lets not sugar coat the fact the guy had no heart.

I won't argue the fact that Sanders was a jerk who quit on his team on the eve of training camp, but he was still an absolute lock for the Hall of Fame.

I am not saying Sanders shouldn't have been a lock for the Hall of Fame either. I am just saying I think Bettis is more deserving than Sanders.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You don't think Sanders, also from Bettis' era, is clearly ahead of Bettis?

Marshall Faulk is a wash? Um, yeah, okay.

Barry Sanders was a Hall of Fame Quiter, lets not sugar coat the fact the guy had no heart.

I won't argue the fact that Sanders was a jerk who quit on his team on the eve of training camp, but he was still an absolute lock for the Hall of Fame.

I am not saying Sanders shouldn't have been a lock for the Hall of Fame either. I am just saying I think Bettis is more deserving than Sanders.

Well, considering you once compared Wayne Gretzky to Morton Andersen, I will take your comment for what it is worth.

 

[BlueOnion]

Well, considering you once compared Wayne Gretzky to Morton Andersen, I will take your comment for what it is worth.

Still a legit comparison, but I will not allow you to side-track this thread.

 

[ren hoek]

You don't think Sanders, also from Bettis' era, is clearly ahead of Bettis?

Marshall Faulk is a wash? Um, yeah, okay.

Barry Sanders was a Hall of Fame Quiter, lets not sugar coat the fact the guy had no heart.

I can't say I agree here. I've seen interviews of Barry Sanders, and FWIW, I think he's one of the most classiest, well-spoken RBs to ever play the game. I believe part of the rationale in Sanders' decision to leave the Lions was the fact that they weren't trying hard to be a winning franchise. In any case, give me 5 years of Sanders over 14 years of Bettis any. day. of. the. week. But back on point- Running backs that Bettis has been compared to so far:

Earl Campbell

Curtis Martin

Barry Sanders

 

[4thAndForever]

I have recently seen Bettis referred to in print as "the best closer in the NFL", which is to say, he takes the ball late in the game when the Steelers are up, and grinds out the tough yards, keeps the chains moving, and finishes wins. This is what he does, and largely, what he always has done, and he does it as well or better than any back I can remember. That's not going to lead to gaudy YPC numbers when teams are stacking 9-10 in the box because they know the run is coming, but that's the nature of the beast, if you will. You have to measure Bettis' success as a back by how well he fills the role he's asked to fill.

Lots of running backs grind out the clock at the end of the game. This is hardly something that only Bettis does.

As it stands, whoever wants to call me a homer or plant an owned tag on me, go for it. This argument will be settled once Jerome becaomes eligible. And just know that whether or not any of us still post here, when he gets enshrined, I will be kicked back with a beer, a wry smile on my face, thinking of you all.

No, that won't settle this argument at all. I don't think anyone is saying that Bettis won't get into the Hall of Fame; we're arguing whether he should go to the Hall of Fame.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Would he be the first HOFer to have a 300 game to his credit?

 

[PunxPack]

Say what you want about Bettis not ever being considered the best RB in the NFL, but there are few running backs that defenders DON'T want to see in the 4th quarter as much as Jerome Bettis. He is a steamroller, and his agility at his size makes him "special". Most guys his size are fullbacks or crappy tailbacks. Just look at Ron Dayne.Also, don't compare football to other sports, especially baseball. Baseball players can play 20 seasons and compile stats. For a football player to play 10+ seasons is a rarity, especially a running back. He has been a perfect fit for the smashmouth running game of Pittsburgh, and he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.It figures that a guy named RAIDERNATION would start this post. He can't bear watching his team lose week after week, so he picks on Jerome Bettis?!? What a dope.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I have recently seen Bettis referred to in print as "the best closer in the NFL", which is to say, he takes the ball late in the game when the Steelers are up, and grinds out the tough yards, keeps the chains moving, and finishes wins.  This is what he does, and largely, what he always has done, and he does it as well or better than any back I can remember.  That's not going to lead to gaudy YPC numbers when teams are stacking 9-10 in the box because they know the run is coming, but that's the nature of the beast, if you will.  You have to measure Bettis' success as a back by how well he fills the role he's asked to fill.

Lots of running backs grind out the clock at the end of the game. This is hardly something that only Bettis does.

As it stands, whoever wants to call me a homer or plant an owned tag on me, go for it.  This argument will be settled once Jerome becaomes eligible.  And just know that whether or not any of us still post here, when he gets enshrined, I will be kicked back with a beer, a wry smile on my face, thinking of you all. 

No, that won't settle this argument at all. I don't think anyone is saying that Bettis won't get into the Hall of Fame; we're arguing whether he should go to the Hall of Fame.

But no one does it better than Bettis, that's my point. A lot of relief pitchers close games, but few are Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman.It will be settled in that the voters will agree with us, and not you guys. Otherwise, there's no way to "settle" anything - you have your opinion, I have mine. You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league. I disagree.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Would he be the first HOFer to have a 300 game to his credit?

Probably.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league. I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

  You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league.  I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

  he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

You mentioned Earl Campbell belongs, and he only had 3 years where he could have been considered among the best in football - 5 at the ABSOLUTE most, and they were spread out by injuries. His career as a whole doesn't touch Bettis', but yet you feel he belongs and Bettis does not. That's my point - whether or not you mentioned Holmes specifically, the same exact case could be made for him as could me made for Campbell.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

  You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league.  I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

  he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

Yes. When you look at the previous 8 (or his 10 years on the whole), however, no one had a bigger hand in their success than Bettis. No one.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league. I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

You mentioned Earl Campbell belongs, and he only had 3 years where he could have been considered among the best in football - 5 at the ABSOLUTE most, and they were spread out by injuries. His career as a whole doesn't touch Bettis', but yet you feel he belongs and Bettis does not. That's my point - whether or not you mentioned Holmes specifically, the same exact case could be made for him as could me made for Campbell.

Did you not read the earlier post where it was pointed out that Campbell took a previous hapless franchise to consecutive championship games? He turned that franchise around. Meanwhile, Bettis joined a Super Bowl team and they have yet to see that game again since he joined them. Hmmmm........

You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league. I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

Yes. When you look at the previous 8 (or his 10 years on the whole), however, no one had a bigger hand in their success than Bettis. No one.

Maybe, maybe not, but what success are we talking about? How many Super Bowls have the Steelers won with Bettis? How many Super Bowls have they played in with Bettis? Answer to both: NONE. Bettis has been the one constant on a franchise that has been consistently good to very good, but since we are not talking about any championships over that time period (except for division ones), I think you are reaching quite a bit.

 

[4thAndForever]

But no one does it better than Bettis, that's my point. A lot of relief pitchers close games, but few are Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman.

Based on what, exactly? Yes, Bettis is great at running out the clock, but so are plenty of other RBs. This isn't enough to get him over the hump, in my opinion.

It will be settled in that the voters will agree with us, and not you guys. Otherwise, there's no way to "settle" anything - you have your opinion, I have mine. You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league. I disagree.

The voters may agree with you, but that doesn't necessarily make you right and us wrong. This is clearly a matter of opinion.And I'm not sure who said Priest Holmes deserves to get into the Hall over Bettis, but it certainly wasn't me, and I don't remember reading anyone else saying that, either.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

  You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league.  I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

  he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

You mentioned Earl Campbell belongs, and he only had 3 years where he could have been considered among the best in football - 5 at the ABSOLUTE most, and they were spread out by injuries. His career as a whole doesn't touch Bettis', but yet you feel he belongs and Bettis does not. That's my point - whether or not you mentioned Holmes specifically, the same exact case could be made for him as could me made for Campbell.

Did you not read the earlier post where it was pointed out that Campbell took a previous hapless franchise to consecutive championship games? He turned that franchise around. Meanwhile, Bettis joined a Super Bowl team and they have yet to see that game again since he joined them. Hmmmm........

  You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league.  I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

  he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

Yes. When you look at the previous 8 (or his 10 years on the whole), however, no one had a bigger hand in their success than Bettis. No one.

Maybe, maybe not, but what success are we talking about? How many Super Bowls have the Steelers won with Bettis? How many Super Bowls have they played in with Bettis? Answer to both: NONE. Bettis has been the one constant on a franchise that has been consistently good to very good, but since we are not talking about any championships over that time period (except for division ones), I think you are reaching quite a bit.

I'm not reaching at all. Lost in translation is the fact that after the Steelers lost that Super Bowl, they lost their QB to free agency and have played with a litany of stinkbombs back there ever since. It's no accident that the Steelers are something like 23-4 with Roethlisberger. A good QB is huge, and Bettis never really had the luxury of playing with one. The success I allude to is the fact that the Steelers have more wins than any team in football over that span (I am 95% sure, they may be second by a game or two, but I think Miami and Green Bay are both behind them) - and no one has had a bigger hand in that than Bettis.It's not all about the big game, and please don't insinuate Bettis' presence is the reason they haven't been back to the Super Bowl, as you have been tap dancing around.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Did you not read the earlier post where it was pointed out that Campbell took a previous hapless franchise to consecutive championship games? He turned that franchise around. Meanwhile, Bettis joined a Super Bowl team and they have yet to see that game again since he joined them. Hmmmm........

How many Super Bowls did Campbell win? How many did he play in? you're going to point to AFC Championship game losses as evidence of carrying a team? Bettis has more AFC Championship game losses than Campbell does !!! You can't penalize Bettis because the franchise wasn't moribund before his arrival. That's neither here nor there.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

But no one does it better than Bettis, that's my point.  A lot of relief pitchers close games, but few are Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman.

Based on what, exactly? Yes, Bettis is great at running out the clock, but so are plenty of other RBs. This isn't enough to get him over the hump, in my opinion.

It will be settled in that the voters will agree with us, and not you guys.  Otherwise, there's no way to "settle" anything - you have your opinion, I have mine.  You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league.  I disagree.

The voters may agree with you, but that doesn't necessarily make you right and us wrong. This is clearly a matter of opinion.And I'm not sure who said Priest Holmes deserves to get into the Hall over Bettis, but it certainly wasn't me, and I don't remember reading anyone else saying that, either.

Bettis may be the best at it that we've seen in 20 years. That's saying something. Bettis can keep the chains moving the entire second half when the opposition is sending 9-10 guys after him on every down. That's testament to the OL as well, but NOBODY gets the job done like Bettis. The only back I can think of that's close is Edgerrin James and the Colts are almost always throwing all game long, so he rarely faces the fronts Bettis does. Having a back like that is such a luxury... there's a reason Cowher is 69-1-1 when holding a lead of 10+ points at any time during a game, and that reason is Bettis. No other coach can match that mark, and Jerome is the one to thank for that.

 

[vandy73]

Maybe because im from NY but i compare Bettis and Curtis Martin all the time and im sure that has alot to do with the fact that both are right next to each other on the all time yardage list. Martin has better numbers across the board and he's done it with 2 fewer years (which for an RB is a big deal considering the life expectancy at that position). His recieving numbers are far superior to Bettis's as well which sheds light on the fact that Bettis is not an all-around polished back. Bettis is a compiler plain and simple.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I'm not reaching at all. Lost in translation is the fact that after the Steelers lost that Super Bowl, they lost their QB to free agency and have played with a litany of stinkbombs back there ever since.

Ah, this misguided argument again. Let's get this straight. While Kordell Stewart eventually turned to ####, he had some good years. In '97, he threw 21 touchdowns (6th in the NFL) and threw in 11 rushing touchdowns (which was 3rd in the entire NFL). I wouldn't call a QB who combined for 28 touchdowns in a season a complete stinkbomb. Also, he did throw for over 3000 yards in '97 and '01.

Maddox is awful now, but he was pretty good in both '02 and '03.

So, while Bettis has never played with a great QB in Pittsburgh, he HAS played on Steelers teams that have had QB's who've had productive seasons.

The success I allude to is the fact that the Steelers have more wins than any team in football over that span (I am 95% sure, they may be second by a game or two, but I think Miami and Green Bay are both behind them) - and no one has had a bigger hand in that than Bettis.

I am not sure about that. I remember hearing that the Broncos have the most wins in the NFL since '95. Since '96, I am not sure.

It's not all about the big game, and please don't insinuate Bettis' presence is the reason they haven't been back to the Super Bowl, as you have been tap dancing around.

I never said that. Nor did I insinuate it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Did you not read the earlier post where it was pointed out that Campbell took a previous hapless franchise to consecutive championship games? He turned that franchise around. Meanwhile, Bettis joined a Super Bowl team and they have yet to see that game again since he joined them. Hmmmm........

How many Super Bowls did Campbell win? How many did he play in? you're going to point to AFC Championship game losses as evidence of carrying a team? Bettis has more AFC Championship game losses than Campbell does !!! You can't penalize Bettis because the franchise wasn't moribund before his arrival. That's neither here nor there.

I swear, you keep ignoring certain posts and trying to argue stuff that has already been addressed. CAMPBELL TOOK A PREVIOUSLY HORRIBLE TO TWO CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES.

BETTIS JOINED A TEAM THAT HAS JUST BEEN TO THE SUPER BOWL.

If you cannot see the difference there, then you really are blind.

 

[moondog]

Bettis rankings for his carreer and all time -Seasons among the league's top 10Rushes:1993-3, 1994-6, 1996-6, 1997-1, 1998-9, 1999-7, 2000-3Rushing yards:1993-2, 1994-9, 1996-3, 1997-3, 2000-9Rushing TDs:1993-9t, 1996-6t, 2004-4tYards from scrimmage:1993-3, 1996-4, 1997-4Rush/Receive TDs:1996-9t, 2004-10tAmong the league's all-time top 50Rushes:4Rushing yards:5Rushing TDs:11Yards from scrimmage:12Rush/Receive TDs:24t

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I'm not reaching at all.  Lost in translation is the fact that after the Steelers lost that Super Bowl, they lost their QB to free agency and have played with a litany of stinkbombs back there ever since. 

Ah, this misguided argument again. Let's get this straight. While Kordell Stewart eventually turned to ####, he had some good years. In '97, he threw 21 touchdowns (6th in the NFL) and threw in 11 rushing touchdowns (which was 3rd in the entire NFL). I wouldn't call a QB who combined for 28 touchdowns in a season a complete stinkbomb. Also, he did throw for over 3000 yards in '97 and '01.

Maddox is awful now, but he was pretty good in both '02 and '03.

So, while Bettis has never played with a great QB in Pittsburgh, he HAS played on Steelers teams that have had QB's who've had productive seasons.

  The success I allude to is the fact that the Steelers have more wins than any team in football over that span (I am 95% sure, they may be second by a game or two, but I think Miami and Green Bay are both behind them) - and no one has had a bigger hand in that than Bettis.

I am not sure about that. I remember hearing that the Broncos have the most wins in the NFL since '95. Since '96, I am not sure.

It's not all about the big game, and please don't insinuate Bettis' presence is the reason they haven't been back to the Super Bowl, as you have been tap dancing around.

I never said that. Nor did I insinuate it.

And how did Kordell do in the playoffs, when they needed him to step up in order to make it to the Super Bowl? You cannot penalize Bettis for not having been to the big game when it wasn't his fault that they fell short. Special teams breakdowns and terrible QB play have cost them in the AFC title game, not Bettis' play.You mention several times that "Bettis joined a team that went to the Super Bowl and they haven't been back since." If that isn't insinuation, then exactly what is the point of repeatedly bringing it up? As I said earlier, it was shoddy QB play that cost them. Despite whatever regular season numbers Maddox or Stewart put up in any given year, neither guy could step up when needed to make plays to bring the team back from a deficit. They both benefitted from having open receivers to throw to (due to Bettis' presence and the power of the running game) but when the Steelers fell behind and they were asked to pass the team back into it, neither guy could get it done.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Did you not read the earlier post where it was pointed out that Campbell took a previous hapless franchise to consecutive championship games?  He turned that franchise around.  Meanwhile, Bettis joined a Super Bowl team and they have yet to see that game again since he joined them.  Hmmmm........

How many Super Bowls did Campbell win? How many did he play in? you're going to point to AFC Championship game losses as evidence of carrying a team? Bettis has more AFC Championship game losses than Campbell does !!! You can't penalize Bettis because the franchise wasn't moribund before his arrival. That's neither here nor there.

I swear, you keep ignoring certain posts and trying to argue stuff that has already been addressed. CAMPBELL TOOK A PREVIOUSLY HORRIBLE TO TWO CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES.

BETTIS JOINED A TEAM THAT HAS JUST BEEN TO THE SUPER BOWL.

If you cannot see the difference there, then you really are blind.

I see the difference just fine. My point is that you cannot justify Campbell's HOF resume as being superior to Bettis' because he turned around a lousy team. Bettis came to a good team and kept them good.Also, before you base Campbell's HOF resume on the fact that he "took a previously horrible team to 2 championship games" - recognize that the Oilers were 8-6 the year before Campbell joined the team. He didn't exactly come to a God-awful team, though they may have been bad in the past. In Campbell's 7 years with the team, they amassed a record of 45-60. :X

Let's add this : you say Campbell "took them to 2 championship games." He broke 100 yards exactly once in 6 career playoff starts. He had 420 yards total in those 6 starts, and a YPC of 3.1. Bettis' post-season resume is clearly superior to Campbell's, and he has taken the Steelers to 4 AFC title games. If you're going to penalize him because his team was better the year before he got to Pittsburgh than Campbell's was the year before he got to Houston, then you're REALLY reaching.

 

[Bojang0301]

Little snipit from NFL.com:

When Steelers running back Jerome Bettis racked up his 61st NFL 100-yard rushing game Sunday, he validated what everybody around football already knew -- he's a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Check this out: Bettis now has 50 100-yard rushing games for the Steelers, but even more significant, he became the fifth player in NFL history to have 50 100-yard games with one team. The other four? Walter Payton (77), Barry Sanders (76), Emmitt Smith (75) and Jim Brown (58). This is the kind of company that Bettis is now keeping -- and will be keeping in Canton.

 

[Bojang0301]

To me it's not even a question of whether or not he is a HOF'er it's whether he is a first ballot guy or not. It is obviouse people have made up their mind though so there is no point in wasting time.

 

[scooterg61]

you all can whine and bad mouth bettis all you want.. i am an outsider.. but love the steelers and have followed them since 72"... so you people who say he doesnt belong due to bettis never carried the team to the big show or things like that...i say...hhmmmm... barry sanders never did either and he should and is in the HOF..this guy has past such names as jim brown in yards rushing.. cmon!! jim brown and numerous more.. he has in ..what..top 6 in NFL history for rushing.. and you guys waste 7 pages debating a question as to whether he should be in???8 or 9 seasons over 1,000 yds.. numerous other steelers records and rams records..no discussion needed.. these guy goes in hands down..

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Little snipit from NFL.com:

When Steelers running back Jerome Bettis racked up his 61st NFL 100-yard rushing game Sunday, he validated what everybody around football already knew -- he's a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

Check this out: Bettis now has 50 100-yard rushing games for the Steelers, but even more significant, he became the fifth player in NFL history to have 50 100-yard games with one team.

The other four? Walter Payton (77), Barry Sanders (76), Emmitt Smith (75) and Jim Brown (58). This is the kind of company that Bettis is now keeping -- and will be keeping in Canton.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Did you not read the earlier post where it was pointed out that Campbell took a previous hapless franchise to consecutive championship games?  He turned that franchise around.  Meanwhile, Bettis joined a Super Bowl team and they have yet to see that game again since he joined them.  Hmmmm........

How many Super Bowls did Campbell win? How many did he play in? you're going to point to AFC Championship game losses as evidence of carrying a team? Bettis has more AFC Championship game losses than Campbell does !!! You can't penalize Bettis because the franchise wasn't moribund before his arrival. That's neither here nor there.

I swear, you keep ignoring certain posts and trying to argue stuff that has already been addressed. CAMPBELL TOOK A PREVIOUSLY HORRIBLE TO TWO CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES.

BETTIS JOINED A TEAM THAT HAS JUST BEEN TO THE SUPER BOWL.

If you cannot see the difference there, then you really are blind.

I see the difference just fine. My point is that you cannot justify Campbell's HOF resume as being superior to Bettis' because he turned around a lousy team. Bettis came to a good team and kept them good.Also, before you base Campbell's HOF resume on the fact that he "took a previously horrible team to 2 championship games" - recognize that the Oilers were 8-6 the year before Campbell joined the team. He didn't exactly come to a God-awful team, though they may have been bad in the past. In Campbell's 7 years with the team, they amassed a record of 45-60. :X

Let's add this : you say Campbell "took them to 2 championship games." He broke 100 yards exactly once in 6 career playoff starts. He had 420 yards total in those 6 starts, and a YPC of 3.1. Bettis' post-season resume is clearly superior to Campbell's, and he has taken the Steelers to 4 AFC title games. If you're going to penalize him because his team was better the year before he got to Pittsburgh than Campbell's was the year before he got to Houston, then you're REALLY reaching.

I'm sure this will get twisted around too.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Did you not read the earlier post where it was pointed out that Campbell took a previous hapless franchise to consecutive championship games?  He turned that franchise around.  Meanwhile, Bettis joined a Super Bowl team and they have yet to see that game again since he joined them.  Hmmmm........

How many Super Bowls did Campbell win? How many did he play in? you're going to point to AFC Championship game losses as evidence of carrying a team? Bettis has more AFC Championship game losses than Campbell does !!! You can't penalize Bettis because the franchise wasn't moribund before his arrival. That's neither here nor there.

I swear, you keep ignoring certain posts and trying to argue stuff that has already been addressed. CAMPBELL TOOK A PREVIOUSLY HORRIBLE TO TWO CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES.

BETTIS JOINED A TEAM THAT HAS JUST BEEN TO THE SUPER BOWL.

If you cannot see the difference there, then you really are blind.

I see the difference just fine. My point is that you cannot justify Campbell's HOF resume as being superior to Bettis' because he turned around a lousy team. Bettis came to a good team and kept them good.Also, before you base Campbell's HOF resume on the fact that he "took a previously horrible team to 2 championship games" - recognize that the Oilers were 8-6 the year before Campbell joined the team. He didn't exactly come to a God-awful team, though they may have been bad in the past. In Campbell's 7 years with the team, they amassed a record of 45-60. :X

Let's add this : you say Campbell "took them to 2 championship games." He broke 100 yards exactly once in 6 career playoff starts. He had 420 yards total in those 6 starts, and a YPC of 3.1. Bettis' post-season resume is clearly superior to Campbell's, and he has taken the Steelers to 4 AFC title games. If you're going to penalize him because his team was better the year before he got to Pittsburgh than Campbell's was the year before he got to Houston, then you're REALLY reaching.

I'm sure this will get twisted around too.

Of course. Suddenly it will be : well, Campbell at least led the league in rushing, something Bettis never did - and he was dominant for a few years, which Bettis never was. The argument that he deserves to be in the Hall because he turned around a horrible team will be quickly brushed under the rug.Of course, by this rationale, as soon as a guy leads the league in rushing once or twice, or has a dominant 3-5 year stretch, we should automatically put him in the Hall of Fame. The rest of his career becomes irrelevant.

 

[PMENFAN]

You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league. I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

Yes. When you look at the previous 8 (or his 10 years on the whole), however, no one had a bigger hand in their success than Bettis. No one.

Actually, I give most of the credit to Bill Cowher, who was hired because his philosophy fit into the blueprint the Rooneys call for.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

  You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league.  I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

  he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

Yes. When you look at the previous 8 (or his 10 years on the whole), however, no one had a bigger hand in their success than Bettis. No one.

Actually, I give most of the credit to Bill Cowher, who was hired because his philosophy fit into the blueprint the Rooneys call for.

I was referring to players, but you're right, Cowher deserves a ton of credit. Although there are those who will say he's a lousy coach because he doesn't like to send his RBs out of the backfield on pass routes.

 

[BlueOnion]

Bettis in, first ballot HOFer.

 

[Ghost Rider]

And how did Kordell do in the playoffs, when they needed him to step up in order to make it to the Super Bowl? You cannot penalize Bettis for not having been to the big game when it wasn't his fault that they fell short. Special teams breakdowns and terrible QB play have cost them in the AFC title game, not Bettis' play.

Yeah, Bettis' whopping 9 carries for 8 yards was stellar in the '01 AFC title game.

I see the difference just fine. My point is that you cannot justify Campbell's HOF resume as being superior to Bettis' because he turned around a lousy team. Bettis came to a good team and kept them good.

Let's add this : you say Campbell "took them to 2 championship games." He broke 100 yards exactly once in 6 career playoff starts. He had 420 yards total in those 6 starts, and a YPC of 3.1. Bettis' post-season resume is clearly superior to Campbell's, and he has taken the Steelers to 4 AFC title games. If you're going to penalize him because his team was better the year before he got to Pittsburgh than Campbell's was the year before he got to Houston, then you're REALLY reaching.

Bettis came to a good team and kept them good, but not as good. As for Bettis bringing the Steelers to four AFC title games, really? He did that all on his own? Hmmm, I seem to recall him not playing in the 2nd round game in 2001 when they pounded the Ravens, but he was there the following week for the loss to the Patriots.

I was referring to players, but you're right, Cowher deserves a ton of credit. Although there are those who will say he's a lousy coach because he doesn't like to send his RBs out of the backfield on pass routes.

Who said that? I did not, although I suspect you are implying that I did. If so, you are twisting my words. All I said was is if Bettis is a better pass catcher than his numbers show him to be, then Cowher has not gotten the most out of Bettis.

 

[kupcho1]

I thought the fishing would be good on this post, but 235 replies and counting? Never thought this bait would work half as good as it has.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

And how did Kordell do in the playoffs, when they needed him to step up in order to make it to the Super Bowl?  You cannot penalize Bettis for not having been to the big game when it wasn't his fault that they fell short.  Special teams breakdowns and terrible QB play have cost them in the AFC title game, not Bettis' play.

Yeah, Bettis' whopping 9 carries for 8 yards was stellar in the '01 AFC title game.

I see the difference just fine.  My point is that you cannot justify Campbell's HOF resume as being superior to Bettis' because he turned around a lousy team.  Bettis came to a good team and kept them good.

Let's add this : you say Campbell "took them to 2 championship games."  He broke 100 yards exactly once in 6 career playoff starts.  He had 420 yards total in those 6 starts, and a YPC of 3.1.  Bettis' post-season resume is clearly superior to Campbell's, and he has taken the Steelers to 4 AFC title games.  If you're going to penalize him because his team was better the year before he got to Pittsburgh than Campbell's was the year before he got to Houston, then you're REALLY reaching.

Bettis came to a good team and kept them good, but not as good. As for Bettis bringing the Steelers to four AFC title games, really? He did that all on his own? Hmmm, I seem to recall him not playing in the 2nd round game in 2001 when they pounded the Ravens, but he was there the following week for the loss to the Patriots.

I was referring to players, but you're right, Cowher deserves a ton of credit.  Although there are those who will say he's a lousy coach because he doesn't like to send his RBs out of the backfield on pass routes.

Who said that? I did not, although I suspect you are implying that I did. If so, you are twisting my words. All I said was is if Bettis is a better pass catcher than his numbers show him to be, then Cowher has not gotten the most out of Bettis.

My point in saying that Bettis brought the Steelers to 4 title games is that I can say that as easily as you can say Campbell "brought" the Oilers to 2. Bettis has done more in the postseason than Campbell did. Your entire argument for Campbell is bunk.Bettis is a better pass catcher than his numbers show him to be. I stated that he hasn't had as many looks because the Steeler offense doesn't throw often to the backs. You called this stupid and made some comment about how Cowher isn't a good coach if he doesn't "get the most out of all his players." Fact is, the Steelers offense does noe throw to the backs, they either run the ball, catch the occasional screen, or stay in to block. That's just Cowher's offense. Call it stupid if you want, but he wins games with it. That Bettis has not had opportunities in the passing game is a fact. Check his target #s. The point is, it's not just him. It's not like they WOULD throw to the backs, but don't because Bettis can't catch. They have and have had pass-catching backs, they just don't throw to them.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Yeah, Bettis' whopping 9 carries for 8 yards was stellar in the '01 AFC title game.

They got behind early and didn't run the ball anymore. Bettis was also nursing several injuries in that game, if memory serves, he had missed 6 straight games before returning for that one, so you can't pull that out as an indicator.If you want to cherry-pick stats, I can point to his 23 carry 105 yard, 1 TD performance in the 1997 title game where Kordell turned the ball over 3 times inside the Denver 20 and they lost 24-21. Was that Jerome's fault or Kordell's?

 

[Mo Sheeya]

   You guys seem to think someone like Priest Holmes, who has a few sensational years, and nothing else, deserve accreditation over someone like Bettis who has gained more yards from scrimmage than all but a handful of players in the history of the league.  I disagree.

Who in the hell said anything about Priest Holmes? I don't think I have said his name once in this thread.

  he is a big reason for the success they've had recently.

He is? Pittsburgh was rolling last season before Bettis became the featured back when Staley went down.

Pittsburgh was doing just fine this season with Parker as the featured back until Roethlisberger got hurt.

In fact, when you look at their success of the last two years, Roethlisberger has a lot more to do with it than Jerome Bettis.

You mentioned Earl Campbell belongs, and he only had 3 years where he could have been considered among the best in football - 5 at the ABSOLUTE most, and they were spread out by injuries. His career as a whole doesn't touch Bettis', but yet you feel he belongs and Bettis does not. That's my point - whether or not you mentioned Holmes specifically, the same exact case could be made for him as could me made for Campbell.

You bring up a good point.Because of the injury factor in Football, ESPECIALLY at RB, I think that HoF RB's are considered far more for their peak (has to be 5 years there somehow though, and 3 uber elite for short career players) than for compiling - especially compared to other positions and other sports HoFs.

In baseball, you can be Don Mattingly and not have enough peak years to make the hall. But in football, at RB, there is some room for the Gale Sayers of the world... and Earl Cambell dominance in his years got him the hall.

Bettis' lack of dominance, albeit over a much longer period, just doesnt make the talent cut many of us have, for a RB to make the HoF. Stats dont tell the story.... it is one of those "when you watched him play" - year after year.

I can see the case, but Bettis just doesnt quite make it in my book. Too many better backs in the league during every year of his career, imo.

 

[David Yudkin]

Even though Campbell only had 5 big seasons, he still currently ranks in the Top 20 in all-time in terms of carries, rushing yards, and rushing TD. At least 10 of the players in front of him came after Campbell, so basically he was Top 10 in all the main categories when he retired even with a short career.