Steelers Broke and 4-6, Bengals Division Champs (1 Viewer)

[Touchdown There]

NFL.com Story

I have said it before and it really chaps the back-end of Steeler's fans, but they are broke (cap-wise). This is what happens when you draft really well. You can't afford everyone. Perfect example of parity in the league.

Some people seem to think that Wallace has no choice. Not true. He can play 6/16ths of the season and walk as a free agent just like Vincent Jackson did. Where does it go from here?

 

[rzrback77]

Actually, the linked article stated that talks could be suspended, not that they already have been.

 

[meatwad1]

When you have a great qb, wrs are a dime a dozen. That is a sad fact for Wallace to learn. He will play out his deal, go somewhere else and be mediocre, just like VJax will be this year.

 

[Touchdown There]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8199991/source-pittsburgh-steelers-wide-receiver-mike-wallace-break-contract-talks

 

[pantherclub]

Panthers should trade a #1 for Wallace. Perfect fit.

 

[KCitons]

I'm still skeptical that Wallace will hold out, or an agreement is reached. I have no real facts to feel this way. But, I did draft E Sanders in the later rounds, with the hopes he could see some more playing time sooner, rather than later. So, with my luck, Wallace will get a deal done.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

This is what the steelers do. Same with Hines i think as well. Camp starts, talks stop until you sign the tender and end the holdout. Then negotiate until the season starts. Being that there were reports of a signing yesterday (false) and reports they were close earlier today, i think he signs longterm 2 weeks or less into camp. If he signs tender and reports that is.

 

[Raider Nation]

I'm sure he can make $2.7M working at McDonald's this year.

Mike. Go back to being a nobody. The Steelers will barely miss you.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

NFL.com Story

I have said it before and it really chaps the back-end of Steeler's fans, but they are broke (cap-wise). This is what happens when you draft really well. You can't afford everyone. Perfect example of parity in the league.

Some people seem to think that Wallace has no choice. Not true. He can play 6/16ths of the season and walk as a free agent just like Vincent Jackson did. Where does it go from here?

They could franchise him at that point. He isn't really a free agent for 3 years.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

So much pure crap has been stated about this contract negotiation.

 

[cstu]

When you have a great qb, wrs are a dime a dozen. That is a sad fact for Wallace to learn. He will play out his deal, go somewhere else and be mediocre, just like VJax will be this year.

I'm sure he'll be quite happy with a contract like VJax's $55M.

 

[Raider Nation]

Did the Steelers get league approval to add the apostrophe?

 

[Dragon1952]

When you have a great qb, wrs are a dime a dozen. That is a sad fact for Wallace to learn. He will play out his deal, go somewhere else and be mediocre, just like VJax will be this year.

I'm not sure about VJax but maybe like Santonio Holmes?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Gregg Rosenthal

 

[Touchdown There]

When you have a great qb, wrs are a dime a dozen. That is a sad fact for Wallace to learn. He will play out his deal, go somewhere else and be mediocre, just like VJax will be this year.

I'm sure he'll be quite happy with a contract like VJax's $55M.

Plus if we are nitpicking, Big Ben is good, but not great. Great is Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers tier.

 

[Fiddles]

When you have a great qb, wrs are a dime a dozen. That is a sad fact for Wallace to learn. He will play out his deal, go somewhere else and be mediocre, just like VJax will be this year.

I'm sure he'll be quite happy with a contract like VJax's $55M.

Plus if we are nitpicking, Big Ben is good, but not great. Great is Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers tier.

ya wallace sure has been languishing with ben.

 

[Sabertooth]

When you have a great qb, wrs are a dime a dozen. That is a sad fact for Wallace to learn. He will play out his deal, go somewhere else and be mediocre, just like VJax will be this year.

I'm sure he'll be quite happy with a contract like VJax's $55M.

Plus if we are nitpicking, Big Ben is good, but not great. Great is Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers tier.

ya wallace sure has been languishing with ben.

Ben isn't in the Brady/Rodgers tier.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Wallace is a very good WR but the Steelers have let this go on for a long time. The curious thing is they didn't bother to ink him to an extension before the draft, virtually allowing anyone to claim him for first and third round picks and no-one took a nibble, very puzzling.

The Steelers are infamous for not putting up with crap from anyone who has issues, Plax, Santonio, and any vet who asks for more than the Steelers want or can afford to pay so their has to be something else that we are not hearing about with this guy because he's really good and if their wasn't any baggage then they would have had this thing done long ago.

I could figure out why in the world they didn't get this done but now I'm sure that their has to be something else that we simply are not hearing about Wallace.

I know Antonio Brown is next up for a contract extension and then their is Emmanuel Sanders contract due soon as well but I don't think this is a cold hard case of hard ball negotiations because someone at the end of the first round would have taken Wallace.

Pro Football Focus did a series of articles pertaining to receiving and Wallace scored very high on multiple lists for all WRs in the NFL, he's very good and I think he's better than some Pittsburgh fans realize which makes this whole contract issue even more puzzling to me.

Do any homers have any insight as to what might be behind the Steelers reluctance to sign this kid to an extension?

 

[belljr]

Wallace is a very good WR but the Steelers have let this go on for a long time. The curious thing is they didn't bother to ink him to an extension before the draft, virtually allowing anyone to claim him for first and third round picks and no-one took a nibble, very puzzling.The Steelers are infamous for not putting up with crap from anyone who has issues, Plax, Santonio, and any vet who asks for more than the Steelers want or can afford to pay so their has to be something else that we are not hearing about with this guy because he's really good and if their wasn't any baggage then they would have had this thing done long ago.I could figure out why in the world they didn't get this done but now I'm sure that their has to be something else that we simply are not hearing about Wallace.I know Antonio Brown is next up for a contract extension and then their is Emmanuel Sanders contract due soon as well but I don't think this is a cold hard case of hard ball negotiations because someone at the end of the first round would have taken Wallace.Pro Football Focus did a series of articles pertaining to receiving and Wallace scored very high on multiple lists for all WRs in the NFL, he's very good and I think he's better than some Pittsburgh fans realize which makes this whole contract issue even more puzzling to me.Do any homers have any insight as to what might be behind the Steelers reluctance to sign this kid to an extension?

They were up against the cap pre-draft. They put the tender on him. Rumor is he wanted Fitzgerald money. As seen during FA no one wanted him for the price tag. Steelers now have more cap space so are able to now in a better position to negotiate. I don't think there really is anything to it more than a numbers issue.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Wallace is a very good WR but the Steelers have let this go on for a long time. The curious thing is they didn't bother to ink him to an extension before the draft, virtually allowing anyone to claim him for first and third round picks and no-one took a nibble, very puzzling.The Steelers are infamous for not putting up with crap from anyone who has issues, Plax, Santonio, and any vet who asks for more than the Steelers want or can afford to pay so their has to be something else that we are not hearing about with this guy because he's really good and if their wasn't any baggage then they would have had this thing done long ago.I could figure out why in the world they didn't get this done but now I'm sure that their has to be something else that we simply are not hearing about Wallace.I know Antonio Brown is next up for a contract extension and then their is Emmanuel Sanders contract due soon as well but I don't think this is a cold hard case of hard ball negotiations because someone at the end of the first round would have taken Wallace.Pro Football Focus did a series of articles pertaining to receiving and Wallace scored very high on multiple lists for all WRs in the NFL, he's very good and I think he's better than some Pittsburgh fans realize which makes this whole contract issue even more puzzling to me.Do any homers have any insight as to what might be behind the Steelers reluctance to sign this kid to an extension?

He's not a great route runner and drops too many balls to be a true #1 WR. In fact, despite Wallace's speed advantage, I think Antonio Brown is a better overall receiver. I suspect the Steelers may agree. They're going to be in the exact same situation with Brown next year, so they have to think long term. I read that they're offering something in the 5 yr/$40 million range with half of it guaranteed. They think that's what he's worth. Wallace appears to want something in the $60 million range over 5 years, with at least half guaranteed. That's just what I've been hearing, no link, so I don't know that that's 100% true, but if it is, it explains the impasse. The Steelers simply are not going to overpay a WR. It won't happen. If Wallace won't take less than what he perceives he's worth, the deal won't get done. Bottom line is that he isn't worth the money he thinks he should get, so he can either sign the tender, possibly get franchised next year, then hit free agency in 2014 and hope to break the bank, or he can take a deal now for less than what he thinks he should be paid.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Wallace is a good player demanding to be paid like one of the top WRs in the game. I don't see him getting "Fitzgerald money" from the Steelers, but am hopeful that they'll be able to work something out.

Holmes was jettisoned for peanuts based on character issues. They let Plax walk based on character plus cap issues. The team definitely made the right decision both times, and I'm confident that they'll do so again.

As a Steelers homer, if the choice comes down to letting Wallace hold out / walk at the end of the year vs. paying him more than he's worth (Fitz $$$), well, see ya later Mike. It'll hurt for sure, but other players are more important to the team overall than a very good but not best in the NFL wideout.

 

[Sabertooth]

Wallace isn't as good as Fitz or Calvin but he's the best receiver the Steelers have access to. He knows it and they know it.

Their entire team will struggle without him taking the top off defenses.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Well I'm primarily interested in two things concerning this holdout.

First is the angle that their is something 'other' than money or any perceived weakness of Wallace on the field behind the Steelers reluctance to sign him to an extension.

Second, we know about Antonio Brown having a contract up next but what if any insight can someone provide on Emmanuel Sanders? I know he's had health concerns but he has the speed that would allow the Steelers to let Wallace walk. No one else on that roster has the sort of speed of Wallace/Sanders so I think that Sanders in the picture has some bearing in this situation and was wodering if anyone feels the seam way.

PFF WR articles.

Wallace rates at the top for all NFL WRs according to their lists.

They did four articles on efficiency and they only route he did not rank in the top-five was on crossing patterns but he probably doesn't run crossing routes since he's not the biggest guy in the world.

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Slants

Calvin Johnson

Michael Jenkins

Dez Bryant

Damian Williams

Mike Wallace

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Wide Receiver Screens

Joshua Cribbs

Mike Wallace

Deion Branch

Doug Baldwin

Greg Salas

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Post and Corner Routes

Jordy Nelson

A.J. Green

James Jones

DeSean Jackson

Mike Wallace

 

[belljr]

Well I'm primarily interested in two things concerning this holdout.

First is the angle that their is something 'other' than money or any perceived weakness of Wallace on the field behind the Steelers reluctance to sign him to an extension.

Second, we know about Antonio Brown having a contract up next but what if any insight can someone provide on Emmanuel Sanders? I know he's had health concerns but he has the speed that would allow the Steelers to let Wallace walk. No one else on that roster has the sort of speed of Wallace/Sanders so I think that Sanders in the picture has some bearing in this situation and was wodering if anyone feels the seam way.

PFF WR articles.

Wallace rates at the top for all NFL WRs according to their lists.

They did four articles on efficiency and they only route he did not rank in the top-five was on crossing patterns but he probably doesn't run crossing routes since he's not the biggest guy in the world.

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Slants

Calvin Johnson

Michael Jenkins

Dez Bryant

Damian Williams

Mike Wallace

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Wide Receiver Screens

Joshua Cribbs

Mike Wallace

Deion Branch

Doug Baldwin

Greg Salas

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Post and Corner Routes

Jordy Nelson

A.J. Green

James Jones

DeSean Jackson

Mike Wallace

Nope. The only probably perceived weakness is he's a bit one dimensional and sometimes drops balls. I think this really is about perceived vs real value.

 

[Touchdown There]

Well I'm primarily interested in two things concerning this holdout.

First is the angle that their is something 'other' than money or any perceived weakness of Wallace on the field behind the Steelers reluctance to sign him to an extension.

Second, we know about Antonio Brown having a contract up next but what if any insight can someone provide on Emmanuel Sanders? I know he's had health concerns but he has the speed that would allow the Steelers to let Wallace walk. No one else on that roster has the sort of speed of Wallace/Sanders so I think that Sanders in the picture has some bearing in this situation and was wodering if anyone feels the seam way.

PFF WR articles.

Wallace rates at the top for all NFL WRs according to their lists.

They did four articles on efficiency and they only route he did not rank in the top-five was on crossing patterns but he probably doesn't run crossing routes since he's not the biggest guy in the world.

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Slants

Calvin Johnson

Michael Jenkins

Dez Bryant

Damian Williams

Mike Wallace

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Wide Receiver Screens

Joshua Cribbs

Mike Wallace

Deion Branch

Doug Baldwin

Greg Salas

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Post and Corner Routes

Jordy Nelson

A.J. Green

James Jones

DeSean Jackson

Mike Wallace

Nope. The only probably perceived weakness is he's a bit one dimensional and sometimes drops balls. I think this really is about perceived vs real value.

The "perceived" value is not by the Steelers organization. It is by the Steelers homers who want to lock down Wallace for 2.7MM "for the good of the team". The issue from Steelers management is a cap issue or they would have paid him by now.Two rookie o-lineman, some guy name Redman at RB, an aging defense and no Mike Wallace. The Steelers always find a way to win, so 2012 will be an interesting year.

 

[belljr]

Well I'm primarily interested in two things concerning this holdout.

First is the angle that their is something 'other' than money or any perceived weakness of Wallace on the field behind the Steelers reluctance to sign him to an extension.

Second, we know about Antonio Brown having a contract up next but what if any insight can someone provide on Emmanuel Sanders? I know he's had health concerns but he has the speed that would allow the Steelers to let Wallace walk. No one else on that roster has the sort of speed of Wallace/Sanders so I think that Sanders in the picture has some bearing in this situation and was wodering if anyone feels the seam way.

PFF WR articles.

Wallace rates at the top for all NFL WRs according to their lists.

They did four articles on efficiency and they only route he did not rank in the top-five was on crossing patterns but he probably doesn't run crossing routes since he's not the biggest guy in the world.

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Slants

Calvin Johnson

Michael Jenkins

Dez Bryant

Damian Williams

Mike Wallace

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Wide Receiver Screens

Joshua Cribbs

Mike Wallace

Deion Branch

Doug Baldwin

Greg Salas

My link

2011 Route Efficiency: Post and Corner Routes

Jordy Nelson

A.J. Green

James Jones

DeSean Jackson

Mike Wallace

Nope. The only probably perceived weakness is he's a bit one dimensional and sometimes drops balls. I think this really is about perceived vs real value.

The "perceived" value is not by the Steelers organization. It is by the Steelers homers who want to lock down Wallace for 2.7MM "for the good of the team". The issue from Steelers management is a cap issue or they would have paid him by now.Two rookie o-lineman, some guy name Redman at RB, an aging defense and no Mike Wallace. The Steelers always find a way to win, so 2012 will be an interesting year.

Like I said the Steelers are a bit cap strapped but I don't think any homers think that Wallace is only worth 2.7million. He deserves more money but in the end if he manages to get the money he was asking for by another team than good for him. Homers don't want the organization to shell out that kind of money even if they could. *Assuming the salary demand rumors are true

 

[treat88]

The "perceived" value is not by the Steelers organization. It is by the Steelers homers who want to lock down Wallace for 2.7MM "for the good of the team".

You've chanted this mantra all off-season, but I have yet to see any Steeler fans actually say this. I don't get why you constantly misrepresent most Steeler fans stance on the issue.The almost universally presented theme I've heard is that it is in both the team and Wallace's best interest to work out a long term deal.Now, he is in a position where he has to sign the tender for that process to continue.Sure he could go the VJax route. That's a possibility. It is, however, also the riskiest possibility of his various avenues to the big guarantee he would like to sign.

The issue from Steelers management is a cap issue or they would have paid him by now.

They certainly would have more flexibility in terms of how and when they compensated him. No doubt.I don't think they would be willing to compensate him significantly more than where they currently are in terms of total money regardless of how flush they might be with cap space.That simply isn't how the team operates.Hell, for all we know, they may be hung up on the language of the contract not the total compensation.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Cap or no, the Steelers are not giving Wallace a huge multiyear deal at $10 - 12 million per with a ton of guaranteed money. Nor should they; he's not worth that kind of contract under any circumstances. He'll either take something reasonable in the $7 - 8 million / year range, (which they made room for by cutting Ward, Smith, Farrior, and Scott), or not. That's it; there's really nothing more to it than that.

 

[Sabertooth]

Cap or no, the Steelers are not giving Wallace a huge multiyear deal at $10 - 12 million per with a ton of guaranteed money. Nor should they; he's not worth that kind of contract under any circumstances. He'll either take something reasonable in the $7 - 8 million / year range, (which they made room for by cutting Ward, Smith, Farrior, and Scott), or not. That's it; there's really nothing more to it than that.

And you'd be ok with the Steelers getting a 7th round pick for him when he finally decides enough is enough?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Wallace isn't as good as Fitz or Calvin but he's the best receiver the Steelers have access to. He knows it and they know it.Their entire team will struggle without him taking the top off defenses.

That's not necessarily true. Wallace only barely nipped Antonio Brown last year in ypc - 16.5 to 16.0. 76% of Wallace's receptions went for first downs as opposed to 83% for Brown. The second half of the season, as Brown began to emerge after getting used to a starting role, take a look at the numbers :Wallace : 12.9 ypc, 77% FD rate - Brown : 17.0 ypc, 86% FD rateAs far as Wallace being the one to take the top off defenses, yes, he's the guy they sling the 60 yard bomb too, most of the time, but Brown actually ran more deep routes.Wallace - 35% short, 38% mid, 8% deep, 19% bombBrown - 23% short, 42% mid, 28% deep, 7% bombSo, while they would lack their biggest threat when going for it all, Brown actually ran a higher % of routes that would be considered deep, while Wallace ran a higher percentage short-mid. Add to this the fact that the Steelers drafted arguably the fastest player in the draft in Chris Rainey, presumably to work out of the slot a lot early in his career, and they have another guy that can take the top off the defense if Wallace walks after next season.Not saying I don't like Wallace, just that a team like the Steelers that has a lot of talented players they want to keep in the fold in order to contend year after year is not going to throw $60 million over 5 years at a WR like Tampa did. That method is how they manage to stay competitive virtually every year and almost never suck.

 

[Ray_T]

The "perceived" value is not by the Steelers organization. It is by the Steelers homers who want to lock down Wallace for 2.7MM "for the good of the team".

You've chanted this mantra all off-season, but I have yet to see any Steeler fans actually say this. I don't get why you constantly misrepresent most Steeler fans stance on the issue.The almost universally presented theme I've heard is that it is in both the team and Wallace's best interest to work out a long term deal.Now, he is in a position where he has to sign the tender for that process to continue.Sure he could go the VJax route. That's a possibility. It is, however, also the riskiest possibility of his various avenues to the big guarantee he would like to sign.

The issue from Steelers management is a cap issue or they would have paid him by now.

They certainly would have more flexibility in terms of how and when they compensated him. No doubt.I don't think they would be willing to compensate him significantly more than where they currently are in terms of total money regardless of how flush they might be with cap space.That simply isn't how the team operates.

That may well be, but if he doesnt sign the tender he will have to stick it out one year longer before becoming a free agent.the smart move is to get the best money he can on a one year contract, play his one year, and then see what the market says he is worth.Clearly if nobody was willing to pay a first and a third, that has to be a sign that he should be putting his signature on a new contract or a tender.Personally, I think a team like the rams could do well to offer a first rounder for him as I think he'd work well with bradford, but I guess GM's are paid the big bucks to make those decisions.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Cap or no, the Steelers are not giving Wallace a huge multiyear deal at $10 - 12 million per with a ton of guaranteed money. Nor should they; he's not worth that kind of contract under any circumstances. He'll either take something reasonable in the $7 - 8 million / year range, (which they made room for by cutting Ward, Smith, Farrior, and Scott), or not. That's it; there's really nothing more to it than that.

And you'd be ok with the Steelers getting a 7th round pick for him when he finally decides enough is enough?

I'd personally rather see him walk for free vs dealing with the long term implications of signing him to a huge deal at way more than he's worth to the team.You're a GB fan, right? What would you say if Jennings, Nelson, or Finley was threatening a holdout and demanding $12 million a year?Good front offices don't do that kind of stuff because its just bad business in the big picture. We're not talking about the Redskins here.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Cap or no, the Steelers are not giving Wallace a huge multiyear deal at $10 - 12 million per with a ton of guaranteed money. Nor should they; he's not worth that kind of contract under any circumstances. He'll either take something reasonable in the $7 - 8 million / year range, (which they made room for by cutting Ward, Smith, Farrior, and Scott), or not. That's it; there's really nothing more to it than that.

And you'd be ok with the Steelers getting a 7th round pick for him when he finally decides enough is enough?

Why would it be a 7th rounder?

 

[Da Guru]

NFL.com Story

I have said it before and it really chaps the back-end of Steeler's fans, but they are broke (cap-wise). This is what happens when you draft really well. You can't afford everyone. Perfect example of parity in the league.

Some people seem to think that Wallace has no choice. Not true. He can play 6/16ths of the season and walk as a free agent just like Vincent Jackson did. Where does it go from here?

THE NFL should have amended the non-injury 6/16 rule to prevent V-Jax type of holdout situations. If the player wants to hold out into the season they should forfeit a year of service.

 

[Touchdown There]

You've chanted this mantra all off-season, but I have yet to see any Steeler fans actually say this. I don't get why you constantly misrepresent most Steeler fans stance on the issue. Now, he is in a position where he has to sign the tender for that process to continue.

And you have been tops with supporting the Steelers organization, instead of paying Wallace what he is worth. Post where you say the Steelers hold "all the cards". Cards for what? To hose Wallace in negotiations?How about this post, where you state Wallace "is going to make that money within the framework of the CBA and in a manner that is also beneficial to the Steelers organization". What does this mean? The thread is full of posts from homers that are supporting the organization, not Wallace getting what he is worth.

It is as simple as this. Steelers homers want Wallace on the cheap. Wallace is a top 10 WR in this league and deserves to be paid like one. The Steelers cannot afford him. This is not some planned out super-management by the Steelers. They are broke. We do not need to keep going round and round with it.

 

[Touchdown There]

That may well be, but if he doesnt sign the tender he will have to stick it out one year longer before becoming a free agent.the smart move is to get the best money he can on a one year contract, play his one year, and then see what the market says he is worth.

He does not have to sign the tender for 10 weeks. Also, the Steelers are not offering him a 1-year deal. They want to lock him down.

 

[Touchdown There]

NFL.com Story

I have said it before and it really chaps the back-end of Steeler's fans, but they are broke (cap-wise). This is what happens when you draft really well. You can't afford everyone. Perfect example of parity in the league.

Some people seem to think that Wallace has no choice. Not true. He can play 6/16ths of the season and walk as a free agent just like Vincent Jackson did. Where does it go from here?

THE NFL should have amended the non-injury 6/16 rule to prevent V-Jax type of holdout situations. If the player wants to hold out into the season they should forfeit a year of service.

I am sure they attempted to do so in negotiations, but you cannot get everything you want. It is a give and take.

 

[Touchdown There]

Cap or no, the Steelers are not giving Wallace a huge multiyear deal at $10 - 12 million per with a ton of guaranteed money.

This report has been overblown. Negotiations start high on the player side and low on the team side. They find a number in the middle somewhere.

 

[Da Guru]

NFL.com Story

I have said it before and it really chaps the back-end of Steeler's fans, but they are broke (cap-wise). This is what happens when you draft really well. You can't afford everyone. Perfect example of parity in the league.

Some people seem to think that Wallace has no choice. Not true. He can play 6/16ths of the season and walk as a free agent just like Vincent Jackson did. Where does it go from here?

THE NFL should have amended the non-injury 6/16 rule to prevent V-Jax type of holdout situations. If the player wants to hold out into the season they should forfeit a year of service.

I am sure they attempted to do so in negotiations, but you cannot get everything you want. It is a give and take.

4 games should the max holdout time before losing a year of service. That would give both the team and player a month into the season to get things done.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Wallace isn't as good as Fitz or Calvin but he's the best receiver the Steelers have access to. He knows it and they know it.Their entire team will struggle without him taking the top off defenses.

That's not necessarily true. Wallace only barely nipped Antonio Brown last year in ypc - 16.5 to 16.0. 76% of Wallace's receptions went for first downs as opposed to 83% for Brown. The second half of the season, as Brown began to emerge after getting used to a starting role, take a look at the numbers :Wallace : 12.9 ypc, 77% FD rate - Brown : 17.0 ypc, 86% FD rateAs far as Wallace being the one to take the top off defenses, yes, he's the guy they sling the 60 yard bomb too, most of the time, but Brown actually ran more deep routes.Wallace - 35% short, 38% mid, 8% deep, 19% bombBrown - 23% short, 42% mid, 28% deep, 7% bombSo, while they would lack their biggest threat when going for it all, Brown actually ran a higher % of routes that would be considered deep, while Wallace ran a higher percentage short-mid. Add to this the fact that the Steelers drafted arguably the fastest player in the draft in Chris Rainey, presumably to work out of the slot a lot early in his career, and they have another guy that can take the top off the defense if Wallace walks after next season.Not saying I don't like Wallace, just that a team like the Steelers that has a lot of talented players they want to keep in the fold in order to contend year after year is not going to throw $60 million over 5 years at a WR like Tampa did. That method is how they manage to stay competitive virtually every year and almost never suck.

I get what you are saying, but Brown's lack of touchdowns was glaring, while Wallace was a big TD scorer early on. And considering the Steelers aren't an offensive juggernaut, they need a guy like Wallace who can make the big plays to get in the end zone. I suspect Brown will score more than two touchdowns this year, but until he does is, we don't really know if he is someone the Steelers can ever rely on to get it in the end zone.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

You've chanted this mantra all off-season, but I have yet to see any Steeler fans actually say this. I don't get why you constantly misrepresent most Steeler fans stance on the issue. Now, he is in a position where he has to sign the tender for that process to continue.

And you have been tops with supporting the Steelers organization, instead of paying Wallace what he is worth. Post where you say the Steelers hold "all the cards". Cards for what? To hose Wallace in negotiations?How about this post, where you state Wallace "is going to make that money within the framework of the CBA and in a manner that is also beneficial to the Steelers organization". What does this mean? The thread is full of posts from homers that are supporting the organization, not Wallace getting what he is worth.

It is as simple as this. Steelers homers want Wallace on the cheap. Wallace is a top 10 WR in this league and deserves to be paid like one. The Steelers cannot afford him. This is not some planned out super-management by the Steelers. They are broke. We do not need to keep going round and round with it.

You're wrong, and if you want to stop going around and around with it, stop starting threads on it just to make your erroneous point. The Steelers are currently close to $8 million under the cap with all their draft picks signed and everyone under contract but Wallace. Naturally, they'll want to keep a little of that cap space, but they could easily offer a multi-year deal that pays him $5-6 million this year and escalates as the cap increases in ensuing years. It has nothing to do with being broke, it has everything to do with the Steelers not being an organization that overpays for players. We've seen it time and again over the years, they have a value they believe you're worth and if you won't sign for that figure, you're free to play elsewhere.Whether YOU personally like it or not, or feel they're trying to job Wallace is completely irrelevant. This is how they do business. Steelers homers like it because it keeps us competitive year after year after year. is that rally so hard to see/understand?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

You've chanted this mantra all off-season, but I have yet to see any Steeler fans actually say this. I don't get why you constantly misrepresent what is said.

Cuz it fits his argument better.Anyone who wants to see what "Steeler homers" had/have to say about Wallace need to nip over to that 10-page disaster epic of a thread about Wallace getting the highest RFA tender instead of the tag from back in Feb/March. It'll beat re-hashing it all here, since that seems to be exactly what's going to happen.Folks are going to read/hear what they want to read/hear apparently.

Wallace is a top 10 WR in this league and deserves to be paid like one.

He wants to be paid like a top 2 WR. There's the disconnect.If he agreed to be paid like a top 10 WR he'd have a contract tomorrow.

It is as simple as this. Steelers homers want Wallace on the cheap.

8 million per season is now considered "cheap?"

They are broke. We do not need to keep going round and round with it.

Only if "broke" means "can't afford to give a guy 13 million a season who's really only worth 7-8." Then yes. They are broke.

Cap or no, the Steelers are not giving Wallace a huge multiyear deal at $10 - 12 million per with a ton of guaranteed money. Nor should they; he's not worth that kind of contract under any circumstances. He'll either take something reasonable in the $7 - 8 million / year range, (which they made room for by cutting Ward, Smith, Farrior, and Scott, or not). That's it; there's really nothing more to it than that.

/threadNo one I've heard/read is saying, or has said, that Mike Wallace blows. They are saying, or have said, that he isn't worth the current franchise tag, as he isn't an overall top 5 NFL WR. He certainly is not worth "Larry Fitzgerald money."I feel like we're in a time warp with this stuff. I think I'll just grab my coat and go read the old thread again. It'll save time and I won't have to bother re-checking this one.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Wallace isn't as good as Fitz or Calvin but he's the best receiver the Steelers have access to. He knows it and they know it.Their entire team will struggle without him taking the top off defenses.

That's not necessarily true. Wallace only barely nipped Antonio Brown last year in ypc - 16.5 to 16.0. 76% of Wallace's receptions went for first downs as opposed to 83% for Brown. The second half of the season, as Brown began to emerge after getting used to a starting role, take a look at the numbers :Wallace : 12.9 ypc, 77% FD rate - Brown : 17.0 ypc, 86% FD rateAs far as Wallace being the one to take the top off defenses, yes, he's the guy they sling the 60 yard bomb too, most of the time, but Brown actually ran more deep routes.Wallace - 35% short, 38% mid, 8% deep, 19% bombBrown - 23% short, 42% mid, 28% deep, 7% bombSo, while they would lack their biggest threat when going for it all, Brown actually ran a higher % of routes that would be considered deep, while Wallace ran a higher percentage short-mid. Add to this the fact that the Steelers drafted arguably the fastest player in the draft in Chris Rainey, presumably to work out of the slot a lot early in his career, and they have another guy that can take the top off the defense if Wallace walks after next season.Not saying I don't like Wallace, just that a team like the Steelers that has a lot of talented players they want to keep in the fold in order to contend year after year is not going to throw $60 million over 5 years at a WR like Tampa did. That method is how they manage to stay competitive virtually every year and almost never suck.

I get what you are saying, but Brown's lack of touchdowns was glaring, while Wallace was a big TD scorer early on. And considering the Steelers aren't an offensive juggernaut, they need a guy like Wallace who can make the big plays to get in the end zone. I suspect Brown will score more than two touchdowns this year, but until he does is, we don't really know if he is someone the Steelers can ever rely on to get it in the end zone.

Very true. What worries me though, is that as the season progressed, Wallace was less and less of a deep threat, and only scored 3 TDs to Brown's 2 from weeks 8-17. It almost seemed as if as Brown came on, Wallace regressed.I like Wallace a lot and the dynamic he brings to the offense, I just agree with the Steelers' FO that he's not a $10M a year + guy. I think that would be money foolishly spent when they have a lot of players to pay over the course of Wallace's next contract. $7-8 million per would be a lot more palatable unless they REALLY think the cap is going to go way up over the next 2-3 years.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

NFL.com Story

I have said it before and it really chaps the back-end of Steeler's fans, but they are broke (cap-wise).

I think you're misinformed. With Jonathan Scott being cut the Steelers are $6+ million under the cap this season, that includes Mike Wallace's tender ($2.74 mill).http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/09/steelers-2012-salary-cap-total-players-under-contract/

This is a contract negotiation. The Steelers have the money to sign Wallace, but they want to make sure this contract negotiation gives them flexibility to sign other players in the future.

Wallace is a very good WR but I think the Steelers would get along quite well without him if he decides to play this out.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The best part of all of this is that if Steelers fans say Wallace isn't worth Fitzgerald money, then we're "cheap" and refuse to acknowledge these cap problems. If we said he was worth Fitzgerald money, everyone would be castigating us for overvaluing our own players and calling us blind homers for putting Wallace and Fitzgerald in the same sentence.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I don't know if Wallace regressed so much as opposing teams realized that he was their only game-breaker, so they did their best to keep him from making big plays and forced the other Steelers at the skill positions to make plays. And considering how poor the Steelers offense was down the stretch (14 points or less in four of their last six regular season games), they didn't do a good job, although Roethlisberger's injury didn't help (Wallace or the rest of the team).

 

[KCitons]

NFL.com Story

I have said it before and it really chaps the back-end of Steeler's fans, but they are broke (cap-wise). This is what happens when you draft really well. You can't afford everyone. Perfect example of parity in the league.

Some people seem to think that Wallace has no choice. Not true. He can play 6/16ths of the season and walk as a free agent just like Vincent Jackson did. Where does it go from here?

THE NFL should have amended the non-injury 6/16 rule to prevent V-Jax type of holdout situations. If the player wants to hold out into the season they should forfeit a year of service.

I am sure they attempted to do so in negotiations, but you cannot get everything you want. It is a give and take.

4 games should the max holdout time before losing a year of service. That would give both the team and player a month into the season to get things done.

I think it should be 8 games. (1/2 the season) If you set it at 4 games, then you give more leverage to the team. Under current rules, the player has the leverage. So, put it at 8 games and neither one gets an upper hand and the hold out/acquired year thing is taken out of the equation.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

NFL.com Story

I have said it before and it really chaps the back-end of Steeler's fans, but they are broke (cap-wise).

I think you're misinformed. With Jonathan Scott being cut the Steelers are $6+ million under the cap this season, that includes Mike Wallace's tender ($2.74 mill).http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/09/steelers-2012-salary-cap-total-players-under-contract/

This is a contract negotiation. The Steelers have the money to sign Wallace, but they want to make sure this contract negotiation gives them flexibility to sign other players in the future.

Yeah, the Scott cut put us at $8.74 million under, but then DeCastro signed. I haven't seen the details of his contract, but he was going to be an estimated $1.0 million against the cap this year from what I read. So that gives the FO roughly $7.75 million to play with. They could give Wallace a 5-year contract that pays him $5.5M this year with 20% escalators each season and it would come out to a 5 year, $41 million deal. I imagine that's not far from what they offered, and it would keep Wallace locked up through his age 30 season. After that, let him try to get one last monster deal somewhere else.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I don't know if Wallace regressed so much as opposing teams realized that he was their only game-breaker, so they did their best to keep him from making big plays and forced the other Steelers at the skill positions to make plays. And considering how poor the Steelers offense was down the stretch (14 points or less in four of their last six regular season games), they didn't do a good job, although Roethlisberger's injury didn't help (Wallace or the rest of the team).

The Roethlisberger injury was crippling, but to me, it looked like as Brown stepped up, Wallace stepped back. He had a few key drops late in the year and simply didn't look like the same guy he was in the first 7-8 games. He wasn't getting open as regularly and wasn't making plays when he was open. Whether or not that was a function of defenses rolling his way is almost moot - if you want $12 million a year, you need to be able to deliver no matter what you're facing - like Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald does. I'm not paying a guy $12 million a year if I'm the Steelers just to draw defenses to him. As you pointed out, it didn't translate into points for them.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

I don't know if Wallace regressed so much as opposing teams realized that he was their only game-breaker, so they did their best to keep him from making big plays and forced the other Steelers at the skill positions to make plays. And considering how poor the Steelers offense was down the stretch (14 points or less in four of their last six regular season games), they didn't do a good job, although Roethlisberger's injury didn't help (Wallace or the rest of the team).

The Roethlisberger injury was crippling, but to me, it looked like as Brown stepped up, Wallace stepped back. He had a few key drops late in the year and simply didn't look like the same guy he was in the first 7-8 games. He wasn't getting open as regularly and wasn't making plays when he was open. Whether or not that was a function of defenses rolling his way is almost moot - if you want $12 million a year, you need to be able to deliver no matter what you're facing - like Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald does. I'm not paying a guy $12 million a year if I'm the Steelers just to draw defenses to him. As you pointed out, it didn't translate into points for them.

Agreed. I may be in the minority but if the Steelers can keep only one, I'd take AB. Much more complete WR.