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How many Broncos bars do we have in PA ????OWN3DIt's funny... if you move the window back 5 years, you're talking about the Denver Broncos. Denver has the most wins from 1977-2006, and the most superbowl appearances from 1977-2006. You said that "You're talking about a team that for 35 years has been damn near as likely to go to the Super Bowl as they are to be sub-.500"... well, Denver isn't damn near as likely, Denver literally has been more likely to go to the SB than to finish below .500. So, since those are the criteria you use to select the best franchise, and since Denver beats Pittsburgh at its own game, and since Denver doesn't have 35 years of futility preceding, then I suppose we both agree that Denver's the greatest franchise of all time.Hey, you made the rules, all I did was move the window back 5 years.
Edit: For clarification, I don't think Denver is the greatest franchise of all time, I just don't think Pittsburgh is, either. You can't set these convenient little windows of time and only count from there, or else Patriots fans would start time at 2001, and Broncos fans would start time at 1977, and Pittsburgh fans would start time at 1972. "Best ever" means just that- the best EVER. You can't erase Pittsburgh's years of futility just because they're past them. I'd probably look at two criteria when determining the best franchise ever- franchise winning%, and number of championships. Whichever team had the best combination of the two would get my vote.
I'm not making it sound like Pitt was racking up championships in a 12 team league, I'm making it sound like Pitt was so bad they couldn't even win a championship in a 12 team league, and they should be penalized accordingly. Denver has outperformed its "expected championships per season" statistic more than Pittsburgh has outperformed theirs.
So if I open a thousand Arizona Cardinals bars in Ghana, does that mean Arizona is now the best franchise in NFL history?
They would all go out of business (just like a 1000 Bronco bars would) and be a total non issue.
And you wouldnt have to go to Ghana.
Regardless of the reason, the Broncos unquestionably violated the salary cap. Why they did it does not make it okay, and there is nothing in that statement to suggest that the NFL felt it gave them no competitive advantage.
In the NFL today, two 3rd rounders could very easily be two starters. Two possible starters and the largest fine that the NFL has levied against any individual team sounds like more than a slap on the wrist to me.
Your argument completely works against you here. The fact that no other team has even trifled with the salary cap since then suggests that the penalty was considered damaging. Another reason is that most teams probably would not want to have their success marred with the kind of scandal that the Broncos are still dealing with (i.e. that they had to cheat to win a championship).Edit to add: To keep this on topic, I would like to add that I would definitely have the Broncos in the top five for NFL franchises of all time. Probably Bears, Packers, Cowboys, Broncos, and Raiders (in no particular order).
I agree with that but, more often than not, you will find that the team with the strongest fan base is the team with the greatest history and the best track record. You don't build a fan base when all you do is lose. I recognize that this ranking has flaws but I wouldn't dismiss it entirely like some people do here.
Fan Base is determined by a lot more than just success on the field. There are geographic considerations- for instance, Denver is pretty much the favorite team from Nevada to Nebraska and Oklahoma to Montana, just because there aren't any other teams closer for the most part. Detroit's fan base far outweighs its success because Detroit tends to be a sports-crazy, blue collar town. Pittsburgh is another blue collar town, which translates to more support than you'd get in a place like Tampa. Florida teams don't get as much support as the population would suggest, because a large percentage of people living in Florida are transplants from other parts of the country (such as me, a transplanted Broncos fan living in Florida). In the end, I think geographic determinism has as much, if not more, to do with fan support than any success the team might have endured.
I would also add to that by saying teams that have been around longer have more of a fan base because more generations of fans have watched the team. 
I never said that the economy of Pittsburgh was the only reason for the support, or even the primary reason for the support- I simply said that "blue collar" populations tend to be more fervent in support of their teams than a comparable "white collar" population. That doesn't mean that it's the only piece of the puzzle (there's also Pitt's success, especially during the years when the league was really coming to the forefront of American sports, and several other reasons), but it'd be naive to deny that that's a piece of the puzzle.Pittsburgh is another blue collar town, which translates to more support
Thats your premise on the Steelers? Thats the big reason?
Cheerleaders ruin football."Cheerleaders are nothing but dancers gone reta##ed."
