heckmanm
Footballguy
Solid company therenorv turner regularly used tolbert in the red sone over mathews.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Stewart new feature back in Carolina? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter shadyridr
- Start date
shadyridr
Footballguy
i agree. but to say hes the only coach when both coaches used him like that is wrong. plus tolbert is pretty damn good on the goal lineSolid company there
hamsterdam
Footballguy
Even Turner can't possibly be dumb enough to use Tolbert if he had Matthews and DWill/JStew....'shadyridr said:i agree. but to say hes the only coach when both coaches used him like that is wrong. plus tolbert is pretty damn good on the goal line'heckmanm said:Solid company there'shadyridr said:'hamsterdam said:
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Because we went into passing-only mode. Royster is the passing-down back.
hamsterdam
Footballguy
Man, people are really nit-picky here.Once again, even Shanny wouldn't pull Morris for Royster if he had a back like JStew or DWill in addition to Morris.That is my point.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
I've heard quitting jstew is harder to quit than heroin.I'm jstew free for 21 days now and it feels great. Also kicked dwill too, good thing too, today I might have relapsed on dwill.'jurb26 said:
Last edited by a moderator:
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
JStew looked very good today, I was at the game. They just didn't run the ball much, and then he was stuffed on clock-killing dives up the middle at the end.
jurb26
Footballguy
I'm DWill clean for 2 years. I see the world in a clarity I never knew existed now. Welcome to the other side! 
jurb26
Footballguy
Relapse. Don't do it.
I am going to rehab in the offseason. I am done with Stewart after this season. I need to trade him somewhere. Have Martin, Jennings and Donald Brown on the team.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Panthers | DeAngelo Williams seeing increase in snaps
Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:08:50 -0800
Carolina Panthers RB DeAngelo Williams has seen his snaps increase over the past two games despite being demoted. Williams received five snaps in Week 7, 14 snaps in Week 8 and 18 snaps in Week 9.
0 Comments | Source: Spiraclebuzz.com - Bill Voth | Share:
Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:08:50 -0800
Carolina Panthers RB DeAngelo Williams has seen his snaps increase over the past two games despite being demoted. Williams received five snaps in Week 7, 14 snaps in Week 8 and 18 snaps in Week 9.
0 Comments | Source: Spiraclebuzz.com - Bill Voth | Share:
This hurts like a party hangover. And the sick feeling I get is also self inflcited.
So I have sent him to the bench for the rest of the season (dynasty). The worrying thing is I am optomistic that next year he will be startable as Williams is gone etc etc.
I feel like a alcoholic who just cannot give up on a poisonous brew.
So I have sent him to the bench for the rest of the season (dynasty). The worrying thing is I am optomistic that next year he will be startable as Williams is gone etc etc.
I feel like a alcoholic who just cannot give up on a poisonous brew.
jurb26
Footballguy
So, time to bump Stewart and downgrade Williams???This is such a mess.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Talk about a dead roster spot. Can't cut him (because of his potetial), can't trade him (because of his lack of production), can't start him (because of his inconsistency). Can't IR him (because he is doggedly staying healthy for once).So, time to bump Stewart and downgrade Williams???This is such a mess.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Cold tale, brother!
JFS171
Footballguy
When there's blood in the streets... buy. Frustrated owners (lots of them in this thread) will sell for pennies right now.
Someone earlier pointed out how Rivera was the only coach stupid enough to not ride this guy. I think they (coaching staff) are getting a pass since they managed to win the game, but let's look deeper.
First Half carries for Stew -
11 yards
1 yard
1 yard
17 yards
(DW enters and rips off 30 yard TD)
Reception for 6 yards
At this point, it's 14-3 at halftime. Your starting RB is sitting on a total of 36 yards on 5 touches, including 30 yards on 4 carries... in a game you're winning by 2 scores. so you're oging to ride that guy (and even his backfield running mate) in the second half, right?
Second half -
1st series - pass, DW for 1 yard, incomplete pass, punt
(Washington scores - now 14-6)
2nd series - Stew for 21 yards, Tolbert for 3, incomplete pass, penalty, Tolbert stuffed on 3rd and 1
3rd series - pass to Armanti for 82 yards (never thought I'd write that), DW for 3 yards, WAS penalty, Cam with the TD
So - to review - in the third quarter, Stew touched the ball ONCE, and took it for 21 yards, briging his total to 57 yards on 6 touches, including 51 yards on 5 carries. So, now that you're up 21-6, you're definitely going to ride him... right?
WAS punt
Pass to Olsen, DW rush, Newton rush, Stew for 5, Stew for -2, incomplete pass, punt.
Still at this point, you're up 21-6, you've just shut down WAS again, got the ball back on downs, and there's 6 minutes left. You've got your starting RB with 60 yards on 8 touches, including 54 on 7 carries - you'll run out this clock with him, right?
DW for -2, incomplete pass, pass to Murphy for 4 yards, missed field goal.
After Washington scored, with less than 2 minutes, they gave Stew three carries when the defense knew it was coming, which resulted in a total of -1 yards.
The point remains... the guy was HIGHLY effective early, and the playcalling went away from him. A monkey could have figured this one out. Stew should have seen 20 carries in this game, and DW 10-15. The coaching staff has no idea how to close down games... Washington should have never had a prayer. As a Carolina fan, I'm PRAYING the new GM cleans house. The only one I'd consider keeping is McDermott on D, as he's actually got that unit looking halfway respectable despite the serious lack of talent.
Rivera's gotta go, though.
Someone earlier pointed out how Rivera was the only coach stupid enough to not ride this guy. I think they (coaching staff) are getting a pass since they managed to win the game, but let's look deeper.
First Half carries for Stew -
11 yards
1 yard
1 yard
17 yards
(DW enters and rips off 30 yard TD)
Reception for 6 yards
At this point, it's 14-3 at halftime. Your starting RB is sitting on a total of 36 yards on 5 touches, including 30 yards on 4 carries... in a game you're winning by 2 scores. so you're oging to ride that guy (and even his backfield running mate) in the second half, right?
Second half -
1st series - pass, DW for 1 yard, incomplete pass, punt
(Washington scores - now 14-6)
2nd series - Stew for 21 yards, Tolbert for 3, incomplete pass, penalty, Tolbert stuffed on 3rd and 1
3rd series - pass to Armanti for 82 yards (never thought I'd write that), DW for 3 yards, WAS penalty, Cam with the TD
So - to review - in the third quarter, Stew touched the ball ONCE, and took it for 21 yards, briging his total to 57 yards on 6 touches, including 51 yards on 5 carries. So, now that you're up 21-6, you're definitely going to ride him... right?
WAS punt
Pass to Olsen, DW rush, Newton rush, Stew for 5, Stew for -2, incomplete pass, punt.
Still at this point, you're up 21-6, you've just shut down WAS again, got the ball back on downs, and there's 6 minutes left. You've got your starting RB with 60 yards on 8 touches, including 54 on 7 carries - you'll run out this clock with him, right?
DW for -2, incomplete pass, pass to Murphy for 4 yards, missed field goal.
After Washington scored, with less than 2 minutes, they gave Stew three carries when the defense knew it was coming, which resulted in a total of -1 yards.
The point remains... the guy was HIGHLY effective early, and the playcalling went away from him. A monkey could have figured this one out. Stew should have seen 20 carries in this game, and DW 10-15. The coaching staff has no idea how to close down games... Washington should have never had a prayer. As a Carolina fan, I'm PRAYING the new GM cleans house. The only one I'd consider keeping is McDermott on D, as he's actually got that unit looking halfway respectable despite the serious lack of talent.
Rivera's gotta go, though.
Mr. Soup Nazi
Footballguy
No. I started him against Leshoure. Oh, and my QB is Stafford, so his zero TD game was a nice compliment to the RB matchup.Dropped Leshoure to pick him up. Do I win?
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Great posting. Rivera is like a spousal abuser. He's beaten everyone in his thread every Sunday. Then he apologizes, says he won't beat us anymore. THIS TIME Stewart will get the load....Unreal how his guys still allowed to call the plays.'JFS171 said:
solorca
Footballguy
He doesn't. Rob Chudzinski does.
I really don't see the complaint here...at least for this game.'JFS171 said:
Stuff happens but this could have been a JS carry.
Like it or not, Tolbert was brought in for these short yardage situations. JS showed in the past and at the end of the game he doesn't do any better here.
Big issue here is that Armanti chewed up most of the available yeardage and Cam takes the TD like he always does. Can't blame the coaches for success.
Stewart got it twice and 2 carries for 3 yards leaves you in 3rd and long.
Recurring theme, RBs not getting yards on first down put Cats in a passing situation
Once again, know the run is coming and JS is about as effective as Tolbert and DW.
packersfan
Footballguy
I'm obviously biased as a Stewart owner but I was shocked he went so long without touching the ball considering how well he started out. Like you said, he should've gotten 20 carries against the Redskins and the Panthers still could've given Williams double-digit carries as well. I'm only mildly irked at this point when Tolbert comes in near the goal line - I expect that to happen now. But there's no excuse for Stewart not getting a significant workload against Washington. He was ripping off big runs early against them. He had 4 carries for 30 yards in the first quarter. His next rushing attempt did not come until 5:55 left in the third quarter (which, by the way, he busted for 21 yards). That shouldn't happen. Forget whether he's the new lead RB or what, how do you go away from a guy averaging 7 YPC for nearly two full quarters in a close game?'JFS171 said:
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Oof I knew that too. Unreal that chudz still is allowed to call plays.'solorca said:
From Rotoworld:
Jonathan Stewart played 31-of-56 snaps (55 percent) compared to DeAngelo Williams' 19 (34 percent) and Mike Tolbert's 12 versus the Redskins in Week 9.
Put me in the WTF category!! They tried to trade Williams out of town, declare Stewart as the new feature back, and then proceed to give Williams 34% of the snaps? Are you kidding me? Just SMH. This backfield makes the old John Fox days of unexplicably using Foster over Williams seem like child's play.
Jonathan Stewart played 31-of-56 snaps (55 percent) compared to DeAngelo Williams' 19 (34 percent) and Mike Tolbert's 12 versus the Redskins in Week 9.
Put me in the WTF category!! They tried to trade Williams out of town, declare Stewart as the new feature back, and then proceed to give Williams 34% of the snaps? Are you kidding me? Just SMH. This backfield makes the old John Fox days of unexplicably using Foster over Williams seem like child's play.
packersfan
Footballguy
It's hilarious that they've gone right back to the rotation system Rivera insisted they would no longer utilize. The fact it worked (in terms of getting a victory against Washington) would lead me to think they'll keep doing it. Stewart's the technical starter but it doesn't appear his workload is now guaranteed to be any greater than it was when he was the backup to Williams.
JFS171
Footballguy
Thought I spelled it out pretty clearly. It's the same complaint it's been all season. DW had that one 30-yard run to the house. On his other 5 carries he gained 7 yards. I know they count all the same, so dismiss that... whatever.The point, which was my point the entire season, is when you're controlling the game, RUN THE BALL. You've got two highly talented running backs. And there's not a pattern of running the ball and controlling the game. Stew's gaining chunks every time he touches the ball, so yeah, let's not give it to him anymore even though we're up by 2 TDs and running plays keep the clock running.Rivera and Chud don't know how to close.
JFS171
Footballguy
This guy gets it.
Last edited by a moderator:
According to what you posted, they ran 14 times in the second half v. 8 pass plays. That's about a 64/36 split.
packersfan
Footballguy
What are your thoughts about Stewart going nearly two full quarters without a rushing attempt despite averaging more than 7 YPC in the first quarter? Do you not consider that something open to potential criticism?
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
It looks like there will only be three RBs in the backfield this Sunday.
Blick
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
bump Cam
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Cue armanti Edwards on a end around from the 4.
My thoughts are...1) The rushing game in the second half was ineffective forcing passing situations.2) Cam did not pass well in the second half.3) Washington won the TOP 35 to 25.4) Washington ran 75 plays to 50 for Carolina. In the second half it was 46 plays for Wash to 24 for Carolina.5) Edwards got about 1/4 of their yards for the game in one play. That play represented 63% of the total yards during the time frame you're talking about.In the second half it broke down like this (carries)DW - 4Stew - 6Tolbert - 2Cam - 2I think that's a pretty good breakdown as to how the split should be. Maybe a little heavy on Tolbart, but that's what the situation dictate and what he was brought in for.First half it wasDW - 2Stew - 4Tolbert - 1Cam - 3People were contending they didn't run the ball in the second half to close out the game. They ran it more in the second half than first. Bottom line was the offense was ineffective most of the game. Stewart is getting the most of the carries. Lots of options on their roster.'packersfan said:
packersfan
Footballguy
How do we know it was ineffective when Stewart went nearly two full quarters without a rushing attempt? If it was ineffective with other players, that's one thing, but they made no attempt at all to utilize a guy who was running the ball extremely well. That was baffling to me. Yes I'm a Stewart owner but even if I wasn't I'd still be baffled because it was boarderline idiotic.I agree with the number of options and frankly I think that's a part of the problem here. There are too many RBs to lean on. I don't wish injury on a player but maybe Tolbert being out will help both Stewart and Williams this week. Maybe it will force the Panthers to focus more on them as the two most talented RBs on the team as opposed to so liberally utilizing Tolbert who's a nice player but nowhere near as talented in my opinion.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
So then it's not that they abandoned the run game, it's that the wrong RB was getting the touches.So then what about Williams's 30 yard carry? Didn't coach say he would follow the hot hand? Why are you pimping the guy that took 4 carries to get to 30 yards, and still hasn't scored a TD this year, over a guy that did it in one carry and cashed in as well? Why are you happy to point out the 1 or 2 yard carry that Williams ran while hiding Stewart's 1 yard carries in his YPC average?The level of dismissiveness in this thread is staggering. Those of you with a Stewart >>>> DeAngelo bias are falling victim to that bias. Naming Stewart the starter was a knee jerk reaction by the staff. It's that simple. It was something for them to do to say that they were doing something. The problem wasn't DeAngelo. That's why he's benefited from the scheme change as well. It's now becoming apparent and the distribution is reflecting that. But be comforted in the fact that I don't think the staff will go back to Williams as the starter. That would be an admission they just made a desperation move. So their pride will probably keep Stewart as the starter in name and getting more snaps than Williams for the remainder of the season. The two guys are so close in talent, you aren't giving much up no matter which guys gets the larger share.'packersfan said:
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
It's baffling to you because you think Stewart is >>>> than DeAngelo.Williams comes in and totals Stewart's yardage total in ONE CARRY and puts it in the endzone. For you to dismiss that and think it won't affect the carry distribution for the rest of the game is what's baffling. Some of you act like Stewart was given a contract that guaranteed him 20 carries no matter how well DeAngelo plays.
packersfan
Footballguy
Did you miss the part where I said I didn't understand the reliance on Tolbert instead of both Stewart and Williams? I think Williams is talented. Never said he wasn't. But my point about Stewart's lack of use still stands. If he is your starter (which he has been of late), why would you fail to give him a single carry for nearly two full quarters in a close game, especially when he was doing so well? That makes no sense at all. It doesn't matter how talented Williams is, going away from Stewart for that long was ridiculous given how well he was running.
Personally, I think the Panthers should focus their offense around Stewart and Williams. As a Stewart owner I obviously would like for him to be the lead back but if you want it to be Williams, that's fine as long as both RBs are getting sufficient touches. I think that's very possible, especially when you consider the Panthers have been in every game this season except one. It's been very easy for Carolina to give Stewart and Williams a combined 30 touches or so each week. They simply have chosen not to do that.
Personally, I think the Panthers should focus their offense around Stewart and Williams. As a Stewart owner I obviously would like for him to be the lead back but if you want it to be Williams, that's fine as long as both RBs are getting sufficient touches. I think that's very possible, especially when you consider the Panthers have been in every game this season except one. It's been very easy for Carolina to give Stewart and Williams a combined 30 touches or so each week. They simply have chosen not to do that.
thatguythere
Footballguy
If you watched the game, there was a whistle blown clear as day when Deangelo was at about the 20 yard line. A bunch of Wash players pulled up and Deangelo coasted into the endzone. Pretty f'n lucky if you ask me. Play could have been blown dead and Stewart or Tolbert could have been right back in the game.Never seen a play with a whistle like that in all the football I've watched. Then they just pretended it didn't happen. WTF?
JFS171
Footballguy
I think you missed the point here. Stew's first 6 touches produced 57 yards of offense, including carries of 11, 17, and 21 yards. In addition to the above post about how the defense pulled up due to a whistle on DW's TD, his first 6 touches produced 37 yards. It's a different picture than what you're painting.And the overarching point remains. In a game the Panthers were winning the entire time, they ran a total of 19 times with their running backs, and 8 times with Cam. The running game was ripping off chunks of yardage, they were winning the game, and should have CLOSED it down by running the ball. Instead they went away from it.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
There is no lead back in Carolina, starting anyone is a shot in the dark as they are bad. The best option is Stewart in Ppr leagues as you seem to pick up several points from the receptions, a little receiving and rushing yardage and you always have the long-shot of him scoring a TD.
