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Su'a Cravens - SS/LB WAS (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter TheBottomLine
- Start date
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Officially changed to LB in MFL today
cr8f
Footballguy
One sets of practices?Geez MFL.
And if he plays more safety in TC will change back. Why not wait and see what transpires?
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm not drafting him because I need him this year. He gets the Deone Bucannon treatment. Year one depth that I'll throw out there if in a jam and hope that he's an every week starter year 2, no matter what position he plays.
cr8f
Footballguy
Typical CBS, they said that he'll start there to learn the offense but the question was posed at OTA's so was he talking about OTA's (and we may see that change in TC) or does he mean regular season? Wait and see everyone. Gruden didn't say.saintfool said:
I guess Rotoworld and CBS know more about it than the Redskins.
georg013
Footballguy
Love the optimism. Hopefully he is designated a safety but playing 3 downs from the inside linebacker position.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Well, Buchanon scored enough to be a LB1 in our league. I can live with a starting 3 down MLB as a consolation prize.
This is is still far from final though. Let's see how it shakes out in week 3 PS
This is is still far from final though. Let's see how it shakes out in week 3 PS
massraider
Footballguy
Ah, that's a bummer.
cr8f
Footballguy
Day 2 still al LB.
Rookie linebacker Su’a Cravens flashed some of his potential near the end of the practice. He picked off quarterback Colt McCoy, then stripped veteran tight end Vernon Davis after the catch on the final play of practice. It’s clear the talent is there for the second-round pick.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Some were disappointed that MFL designated Cravens as LB. But worth emphasizing, IMO, he could still be extremely valuable AS A LB.
He has been compared to Deone Bucannon, largely for possible role (S/LB tweeners Mark Barron and fellow rookie Keanu Neal profile similarly in past few years). Bucannon is faster and more athletic, but Cravens bigger (225 lbs.). Specifically on his pass game instincts, ability to break on the ball like a CB, ball skills, he is one of the more impressive players his size in the short/intermediate coverage range I've seen (LB or even S). I've also seen his skill set compared to Hall of Famer Derrick Brooks (similar size, I think he was significantly faster). Cravens has had several relatives play in the NFL (great bloodlines and football genes). He has succeeded at every level, former USA Today National Defensive Player of the Year before USC.
Bucannon was a first rounder, Cravens second. See where Bucannon scored in your league format. If it was top 10-15 among LBs, and Cravens can match that in a potentially similar role, that could be fairly valuable, S or LB.
He has been compared to Deone Bucannon, largely for possible role (S/LB tweeners Mark Barron and fellow rookie Keanu Neal profile similarly in past few years). Bucannon is faster and more athletic, but Cravens bigger (225 lbs.). Specifically on his pass game instincts, ability to break on the ball like a CB, ball skills, he is one of the more impressive players his size in the short/intermediate coverage range I've seen (LB or even S). I've also seen his skill set compared to Hall of Famer Derrick Brooks (similar size, I think he was significantly faster). Cravens has had several relatives play in the NFL (great bloodlines and football genes). He has succeeded at every level, former USA Today National Defensive Player of the Year before USC.
Bucannon was a first rounder, Cravens second. See where Bucannon scored in your league format. If it was top 10-15 among LBs, and Cravens can match that in a potentially similar role, that could be fairly valuable, S or LB.
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cr8f
Footballguy
Yep, in mine he placed 8th in defense above Kuechly and Mosley; Sean Lee and Bobby Wagner were 13th and 14th.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Comped with the likes of Mark Barron and Deone Bucannon
Shutdown Corner scouting report (#31)
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nfl-draft-profile--usc-lb-s-su-a-cravens---tweener-but-a-playmaker-153938106.html
SI Doug Farrar (#21)
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/03/29/nfl-draft-big-board-prospects-william-jackson-sua-cravens
Shutdown Corner scouting report (#31)
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nfl-draft-profile--usc-lb-s-su-a-cravens---tweener-but-a-playmaker-153938106.html
SI Doug Farrar (#21)
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/03/29/nfl-draft-big-board-prospects-william-jackson-sua-cravens
cr8f
Footballguy
It's going slowly so far.
RICHMOND — Grab an ink pen and scratch out the ‘S’ next to Su’a Cravens’s name on your Redskins roster.
Don’t bother scribbling in ILB to represent inside linebacker, the position at which he has worked during offseason practices and the first week of training camp. He’s more of that than he is a safety, the position at which the team listed Cravens shortly after drafting him in the second round in April. In truth, Cravens — a 6-foot-1, 222-pound Southern California product, who wears No. 36 to honor his idol, the late Sean Taylor — is probably too athletic and talented to confine to one position.
So, if you must list something in that column of the roster, just go with ‘A’ for athlete, or ‘PM’ for playmaker. Because that’s the image of Cravens defensive coordinator Joe Barry has dancing in his mind.
“In college he changed positions almost every week. He played safety, he played rover, he played inside, he played outside linebacker,” explained Barry, who recruited Cravens to USC but never got to coach him there. “But [GM Scot McCloughan], when we draft players, does a really good job of asking, ‘Where will he play?’ We don’t get him and then figure out. So my approach from Day 1, was he’s a linebacker. Does he have some traits where he could play safety, or a back-end position? Sure. But I think what would benefit him best was let him play dime linebacker, let’s teach him and throw him into the fire and have him play inside linebacker — the hardest position — in base and see where it goes.”
RICHMOND — Grab an ink pen and scratch out the ‘S’ next to Su’a Cravens’s name on your Redskins roster.
Don’t bother scribbling in ILB to represent inside linebacker, the position at which he has worked during offseason practices and the first week of training camp. He’s more of that than he is a safety, the position at which the team listed Cravens shortly after drafting him in the second round in April. In truth, Cravens — a 6-foot-1, 222-pound Southern California product, who wears No. 36 to honor his idol, the late Sean Taylor — is probably too athletic and talented to confine to one position.
So, if you must list something in that column of the roster, just go with ‘A’ for athlete, or ‘PM’ for playmaker. Because that’s the image of Cravens defensive coordinator Joe Barry has dancing in his mind.
“In college he changed positions almost every week. He played safety, he played rover, he played inside, he played outside linebacker,” explained Barry, who recruited Cravens to USC but never got to coach him there. “But [GM Scot McCloughan], when we draft players, does a really good job of asking, ‘Where will he play?’ We don’t get him and then figure out. So my approach from Day 1, was he’s a linebacker. Does he have some traits where he could play safety, or a back-end position? Sure. But I think what would benefit him best was let him play dime linebacker, let’s teach him and throw him into the fire and have him play inside linebacker — the hardest position — in base and see where it goes.”
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
In preseason hodgepodge, Redskins’ Preston Smith and Su’a Cravens stand out
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/in-preseason-hodgepodge-redskins-preston-smith-and-sua-cravens-stand-out/2016/08/11/4ea1e388-6024-11e6-9d2f-b1a3564181a1_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/in-preseason-hodgepodge-redskins-preston-smith-and-sua-cravens-stand-out/2016/08/11/4ea1e388-6024-11e6-9d2f-b1a3564181a1_story.html
cr8f
Footballguy
A closer look at Redskins rookie Su'a Cravens's potential http://wpo.st/gdLs1
It was only the opening preseason game and Cravens only saw time against the Falcons second- and third-string offenses, but the performance was still impressive. He managed to flash solid instincts and athleticism against the run, an ability to make up ground while dropping into coverage and awareness while rushing the passer. He has certainly given himself a platform to build from going into the next week of practices and the second preseason game.
It was only the opening preseason game and Cravens only saw time against the Falcons second- and third-string offenses, but the performance was still impressive. He managed to flash solid instincts and athleticism against the run, an ability to make up ground while dropping into coverage and awareness while rushing the passer. He has certainly given himself a platform to build from going into the next week of practices and the second preseason game.
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
Did he start last game?
massraider
Footballguy
Su’a Cravens moving to safety for Redskins
Posted by Curtis Crabtree on December 23, 2016, 2:56 AM EST
After spending most of his first season as a linebacker, the Washington Redskins plan on moving Su’a Cravens to safety for next season.
According to John Keim of ESPN.com, Cravens is already beginning the process of transitioning to his new position with an eye toward next season.
Cravens appeared in 11 games for Washington this season with three starts after being selected in the second round of the draft back in May. He had 34 tackles with a sack and an interception before a biceps injury has sidelined him last week against the Carolina Panthers.
Cravens has played just 39 percent of Washington’s defensive snaps this season in the 11 games he’s played in. Moving him to a full-time role in the secondary could allow him to become a bigger part of the team’s defense moving into next year.
Thats Whassup!
Posted by Curtis Crabtree on December 23, 2016, 2:56 AM EST
After spending most of his first season as a linebacker, the Washington Redskins plan on moving Su’a Cravens to safety for next season.
According to John Keim of ESPN.com, Cravens is already beginning the process of transitioning to his new position with an eye toward next season.
Cravens appeared in 11 games for Washington this season with three starts after being selected in the second round of the draft back in May. He had 34 tackles with a sack and an interception before a biceps injury has sidelined him last week against the Carolina Panthers.
Cravens has played just 39 percent of Washington’s defensive snaps this season in the 11 games he’s played in. Moving him to a full-time role in the secondary could allow him to become a bigger part of the team’s defense moving into next year.
Thats Whassup!
saintfool
Dead sexy
Seems possible. Whitner had 49 in 11 starts. If Cravens averages a solo than Whitner then he's at 88 over 16 games. Su'ua could do that given the limitations of Whitner at this stage of his career. That said, no one last year topped 90 solos on that defense. Only Foster got close with 88. Only three S's topped 90 solo last year at all with Collins, Bethea and Neal.
matttyl
Footballguy
so, a dynasty add? I drafted him as a rookie, but had to later drop him when he stayed as a LB. He's listed as a safety now, so a big bump in value.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
Both. 10 team, 31 man rosters with IDPs. Start 1 qb, 1 rb, 2 wrs, 2 flex, 1 te, 1 k, 2 dbs, 2 lbs, and 2 dbs. When injuries and bye weeks starting hitting hard, it made it harder and harder to hold a part time rookie LB you were hoping would be both full time, and changed back to a DB the following year.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
I mean in general dynasty rankings of DBs, is this guy a top 10 guy right now? 21 years old - a history of playing as an in the box LB, and now finally listed as a DB. I'm not calling him the next Collins, but I can't really name a whole lot of guys I'd rather have on a dynasty roster as the position.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
No, and even if so it doesn't mean much. DB's are so easy to replace year over year unless you have Collins/Reshad you're better off in my leagues just hitting waivers. Give me the next Kurt Coleman or Tony Jefferson and let me save my draft spots/roster stashes for Reeves-Maybin or Devante Mays.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Hankmoody said:
I'll take Cravens over either one of those 2 every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
In a vaccuum I would too. But you're not going to get Cravens for the price of a dynasty stash too often. My comment was more generalized about DB's in general and not so much about Cravens per se. I'd add him in that context over the two I cited but, being such a small league, there are likely others on waivers I'd rather stash at other positions. In general the opportunity cost he presents in larger leagues far outweighs the value of the position in my mind. And I like Cravens plenty, he's got a chance to be really good. But every year DB's pop up on waivers and put up top 5 production.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm in some fairly deep dynasty leagues and Cravens was acquired for stash prices. Most of these types are, like Killebrew last year too. Same story this year, the names are just different - Budda Baker, Josh Jones, Justin Evans. The only ones that usually aren't are guys like Adams. And if you're in any of my leagues - Peppers. Funny that Coleman is the talking point because I picked him 4 spots after I picked Cravens last year though.
In most formats I don't think it's good roster management to have your roster filled with these types because of the replacement value at the position, but one or two? Absolutely.
In most formats I don't think it's good roster management to have your roster filled with these types because of the replacement value at the position, but one or two? Absolutely.
matttyl
Footballguy
He's currently a free agent in my league, and our rookie/free agent draft starts a week from today. Typically there are a few free agents veterans that are still "drafted" in the rookie draft each year. I'm thinking of using something in the late 3rd or 4th round to get him as it may be the last roster spot on my 31 man roster (10 team league). Too much?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
First, let me say I appreciate the conversation.
That said, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Our league breaks out Ss and CBs, and it is a 14 team league that starts 11 on D, so that is my context.
If you are speaking to CBs I'll agree with you. FF CBs are a bit odd in that you can get top scorers every year on the WW. I feel that has to do with CBs being able to score well if they get targeted a lot, which means crappy CBs can score very well, or mediocre CBs slotted opposite a legit shutdown CB. Top CBs are always in flux year to year.
Ss are a bit different in that SSs tend to score much better than FSs, which culls the herd. Then you have to find a SS who is on a team that schemes them into a lot of box play or who is a superior athlete who can cover a lot of ground and reads/fills quickly, or who can handle most TE or slot WRs. That further limits options.
Will you find decent SSs who rise into good spots on the WW? Sure, by my experience about as much as you can RBs, WRs, and LBs. Every one of my leaguemates are looking for those guys too, so I sure can't rely on just plucking them off the WW any time I want. I sure wouldn't let a top drafted player like Cravens in that position go and hope to find a flyer next year in the dregs of the next year's draft.
And more specifically speaking to Cravens and letting him dangle, my thoughts the whole time last year was that WAS was grooming him last year by playing him at LB with every intent of moving him back to SS. I didn't expect the grooming to last an entire season, but that's out of my control. I thought WAS's plan the whole time was to get him experience at LB so that he could become a base SS and a nickel/dime LB. If that's the case, being patient and holding him could easily result in having a plug and play top SS for the next decade.
I'll sure take a chance and hold that roster spot over hoping to find a late round flyer in the following year's draft when we're speaking about the level of players like Reeves-Maybin or Mays who have such obvious warts that I just can't project them into regular FF values. Either of those guys turning into startable or flex FF players is much, much riskier than Cravens doing so. IMO.
.
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
I don't have a good reference for 10 man with short bench but at the risk of getting into AC territory, yes, this sounds like too much to me. 3rd round rookie is in the late 20's so guys like Cunningham, Jamaal Williams? Marlon Mack or Duke Riley into the 4th? I'm not taking a DB over those guys when I can wait and get other waiver guys afterward.
Again, don't focus on those particular names. They were in the context of 16 man leagues which is what I"m in so that's where my mind went. Cravens has zero chance to be on waivers in those leagues. In a 10 man league those names are Duke Riley, Jamaal Williams types. I'm not taking Cravens over those guys when I can probably get whoever breaks out among Tavon Wilson, Quinton Demps, Jaquiski Tartt, JJ Wilcox on waivers later.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Depends how many stash's you already have on your roster and what's usually available on waivers at other positions, but I'd say your last roster spot is appropriate. I think at least Adams and Peppers should be prioritized to him though. If you don't get Cravens then there should be at least a few similar guys available too.
matttyl
Footballguy
Well, all the rookie DBS, Cravens, Geathers, Malcolm Jenkins, TJ Ward, Ronald Darby, J Addae just to name a few. I typically agree that DBs aren't something you should fill your roster up with when it's so easily replaceable. I already have Collins, Burnett, and Bethea (who while a great fantasy DB last year, is old and now on a new team).
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I'll expand a bit on this too. I'm in some leagues that separate out CB/S and some leagues that don't. I don't see any difference in them getting quality at S. Guys like Tony Jefferson, Kurt Coleman. Last year specifically Donte Witner, Tavon Wilson and Daniel Sorensam were both quality starters on my teams from waivers.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Totally makes my point. Addae was S5 and TJ ward was S6 in my league last year. I'm drafting home runs at RB/WR/LB and coming back later to get top 10 DB's on waivers.
massraider
Footballguy
Late 4th sounds right, especially if you cannot see any draft pick past that making the team. How many rounds?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Well, that is a luxury in smaller leagues that don't have a lot of developmental roster space.
matttyl
Footballguy
5 - so a total of 50 draft picks, starting next week. We then will have a 2 round waiver run just prior to the start of the season, if you want to participate. I'm not sure I want to wait till then to target him.
Let me also state that I'm a Redkins fan, and year after year we have these types of players who are technically playing one position, but are listed as another (a guy playing LB listed as a DB which Cravens could be doing some of, a guy playing LB listed as a DL like Mack was last year which literally was the difference for the guy who won our title).
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Not really. I just named a bunch of other guys that were the same case. Tony Jefferson was a top 10 DB two years in a row. Kurt Coleman. David Bruton. Mike Adams. Corey Graham. Mark Barron. All from waivers in 12 and 16 man deep leagues the last few years, all put up top 5-10 seasons. They rarely have much staying power, but that's the nature of the position, and those that do obviously aren't on waivers.
What is a luxury of smaller leagues is a guy like Cravens being available in the first place. The better comp if you are talking bigger leagues would be Miles Killebrew or Jaquiski Tartt. If those guys are on waivers in a 16 man league they are borderline worth picking up. I'd rather draft Reeves-Maybin and grab Maurice Alexander or Quinton Demps and adjust the DB after week 2 or 3 as necessary. Someone will be there.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Yeah, like TJ Ward. 6th round pick in 2010 and has been on the same roster since. I get that you are in a smaller league where there are more options. That may not be true in larger leagues that have developmental room. Killebrew and Tartt are both rostered by the teams that drafted them. They've never been FAs.
We have 14 good owners and most of them look for guys like Addai, and not everyone can get him on the WW. I'm struggling to see why you can't recognize that your strategy in your league doesn't transcend all leagues.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I get the vet DB off waivers argument and while there are top 10 guys out there every year there are also Reggie Nelson's and Chris Conte's that put up those numbers in September then regress to who they are. Just like there are only so many roster spots for stash's like Cravens there are only so many roster spots for mediocre vets that may or may not keep producing.
I treat each league a little differently, but generally speaking I really try to find the balance between the two approach's - waiting to see who slips then acquire them rather than get tunnel vision for just a guy or three.
I treat each league a little differently, but generally speaking I really try to find the balance between the two approach's - waiting to see who slips then acquire them rather than get tunnel vision for just a guy or three.
