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Super Bowl LIV Discussion Thread - 49ers vs Chiefs (3 Viewers)

Dinkle Heimer said:
Especially when the whole team knows the coach simply doesn't trust the most important player on the field. Kudos to Mahomes and KC for sure, but that was a fairly monumental collapse.  This one doesn't go away so easy.
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One day you’ll be able to root for your seahawks again, and this forum will be spared your constant Niner bashing. I look forward to that day. 

 
BigJim® said:
And yet, they didn't score. They didn't have a realistic chance at 4th and 10. Even had they connected, I'd have liked KCs odds of scoring in 1:30 with 3 TOs. I don't see a lot of upside in the playcall, but oh well, as mentioned it's just an opinion.
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I think that helps with my point.  The play call got them an opportunity to score.  If they execute (a better throw) they score on that play.  Sanders was wide open.  You have to take your chances to score when they are there and execute them.  This time everything was there but the execution. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
One day you’ll be able to root for your seahawks again, and this forum will be spared your constant Niner bashing. I look forward to that day. 
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As a Hawk fan i know a monumental choke job when I see it. I can attest to how the SB loss INT at the one yard line to New England was the beginning of the end. It put the team in 2 camps and guys on the D, like Sherman, started checking out.  That was one play though, last night was a slow motion destruction.

Championship quality team defense is fleeting.  The 49ers will still have a good defense next year but for how long and will it be at the same level?   A couple semi recent SB winning teams were stacked with talent on defense, but it didn't equate to do dominate play the following year.  Did the 49ers D peak this year?

Guys like Mahomes and Wilson make their squads immeasurable better.  Jimmy Garapollo didn't have to do much this year come playoff time. His coach purposely limited his affect on all three postseason games.  Chances are he'll have to do more in the next couple years.  I simply don't see that as a long term recipe for winning football games. 

 
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Doug B said:
This said year after year, but the post-Super Bowl hangover is real. It's hard even for the winning team ... but for the losing team, it messes with a team's psyche for a while.
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yes, the Rams have as much talent as anyone, and they were probably the best team to not make the playoffs this season.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the niners missed the playoffs, I mean they were just 4-12 (injury to JimmyG I know)

that's why when you make it to the superbowl you have to win it, you might not get back, Marino only made one, Favre made two, Rodgers only made one, the saints have had a Minnesota hang over for two seasons now.

 
Gally said:
I think that helps with my point.  The play call got them an opportunity to score.  If they execute (a better throw) they score on that play.  Sanders was wide open.  You have to take your chances to score when they are there and execute them.  This time everything was there but the execution. 
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I think we're talking past each other. To me there is a tactical question of whether you want the outcome reliant on your ability to score against the KC D, or your ability to stop the KC offense. It was going to boil down to one of those alternatives. JMHO, I don't think the odds of SF winning was > 25% if they scored on that play, needing to stop a KC offense with 1:30/3 TOs. Now, if you think SF had < 25% scoring a TD outside of that play, I can see where you are coming from. I'm maybe more optimistic than you on SF ability to score a TD without that play call. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Except they had it - the receiver was open. It would have been a touchdown with a slightly better throw. 

not sure how you can say it was a bad decision. JimmyG throws just a little softer & they take the lead on that play. Game of inches. 

the call was great though - it should have worked. 
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Nothing wrong with the call, but long ball just isn't Jimmy's strength.  Sanders was open for sure.

Hated that entire set of play calls after the pass to Bourne got them to midfield.  That pass is the exact same kind of play they should have kept running.  Let the receivers get open instead of quick timing passes. They even had time to run the ball with 2 1/2 minutes left and 3 times outs so play action would have been effective.  

Not one to normally criticize play calling, but that series of play calls was really sketchy. 

 
Dinkle Heimer said:
As a Hawk fan i know a monumental choke job when I see it. I can attest to how the SB loss INT at the one yard line to New England was the beginning of the end. It put the team in 2 camps and guys on the D, like Sherman, started checking out.  
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Serious question about that play. 

Did Wilson get any grief for throwing a pick to lose the super bowl?  On a national level, it seems he got a total pass.  Virtually all the negative feedback I saw was blaming Pete or Bevel for not running it.  Wilson seemed like the teflon man there. 

I thought calling a slant into the middle of the defense was beyond stupid there, but don't think passing the ball was a bad play.  I always thought that if they had run a play fake with Lynch, there would have been someone wide open in the flat or Wilson could have gotten to the edge.  They did that earlier in the game and Baldwin (I'm pretty sure it was Baldwin) was wide open.  That timing slant made no sense. Phenomenal play by Butler to make the pick and he said how they were ready for that play.  So many ways for that play to end up bad and they had so many better options at that point.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
With no bets or rooting interest to either team I thought the KC/SF SB to be one of the most enjoyable games that I ever watched.  

I watched every minute and loved it.  Great game to both teams.
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I would have thought so too if I had to rooting interest lol

Not that I would have preferred SF to get blown out, but those games don't stick to you as bad.  As a 49er fan, so many "what ifs" to deal with here.

 
efactor said:
Serious question about that play. 

Did Wilson get any grief for throwing a pick to lose the super bowl?  On a national level, it seems he got a total pass.  Virtually all the negative feedback I saw was blaming Pete or Bevel for not running it.  Wilson seemed like the teflon man there. 

I thought calling a slant into the middle of the defense was beyond stupid there, but don't think passing the ball was a bad play.  I always thought that if they had run a play fake with Lynch, there would have been someone wide open in the flat or Wilson could have gotten to the edge.  They did that earlier in the game and Baldwin (I'm pretty sure it was Baldwin) was wide open.  That timing slant made no sense. Phenomenal play by Butler to make the pick and he said how they were ready for that play.  So many ways for that play to end up bad and they had so many better options at that point.
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RW did not take a lot of flak for that play.  The play callers (Carroll and Bevel) took the most heat.  And 2nd most blame went to Jermaine Kearse for his feeble attempt to shake Brandon Browner and pick Butler to free up Lockette.  

Should have given it to Marshawn....... 

 
Dinkle Heimer said:
As a Hawk fan i know a monumental choke job when I see it. I can attest to how the SB loss INT at the one yard line to New England was the beginning of the end. It put the team in 2 camps and guys on the D, like Sherman, started checking out.  That was one play though, last night was a slow motion destruction.

Championship quality team defense is fleeting.  The 49ers will still have a good defense next year but for how long and will it be at the same level?   A couple semi recent SB winning teams were stacked with talent on defense, but it didn't equate to do dominate play the following year.  Did the 49ers D peak this year?

Guys like Mahomes and Wilson make their squads immeasurable better.  Jimmy Garapollo didn't have to do much this year come playoff time. His coach purposely limited his affect on all three postseason games.  Chances are he'll have to do more in the next couple years.  I simply don't see that as a long term recipe for winning football games. 
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Case in point. 

 
efactor said:
Nothing wrong with the call, but long ball just isn't Jimmy's strength.  Sanders was open for sure.

Hated that entire set of play calls after the pass to Bourne got them to midfield.  That pass is the exact same kind of play they should have kept running.  Let the receivers get open instead of quick timing passes. They even had time to run the ball with 2 1/2 minutes left and 3 times outs so play action would have been effective.  

Not one to normally criticize play calling, but that series of play calls was really sketchy. 
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IMO the game turned on 2 plays on defense. 
1. 3rd & 15 - force a punt there, it’s still a 10 point game with 5 mins to play.

2. 3rd & 10, same drive. Again, stop that & it’s a FG, SF gets the ball with ~4 mins & change and a 7 point lead. 

they failed to stop either play, and it was all downhill from there. 

criticism of the offense is fair, but the 49ers got the ball back with 7:22 left and a 10 point lead. 95.7% chance of winning.

Woulda been nice if the offense could have driven the ball since they’d been doing so effectively all game, but between play calling & KC D stepping up late, it was a team collapse on both sides of the ball. 

 
The Dreaded Marco said:
RW did not take a lot of flak for that play.  The play callers (Carroll and Bevel) took the most heat.  And 2nd most blame went to Jermaine Kearse for his feeble attempt to shake Brandon Browner and pick Butler to free up Lockette.  

Should have given it to Marshawn....... 
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So, Wilson was the Teflon man.  Got it.  I suspected as much.  lol

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
IMO the game turned on 2 plays on defense. 
1. 3rd & 15 - force a punt there, it’s still a 10 point game with 5 mins to play.
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This to me was the ballgame.  Stop them there and game over.  Doubt they would have punted though down two scores though so they would have had another play I guess. 

Hill made that play.  Just a flat out nasty route that had Ward turned around in circle.  Not a great pass and one that might have been picked had Hill not been open by 10 yards.

Hill and Mahomes are a perfect combo.  Speed to burn and someone who can make any throw.  Just opens up the whole offense

 
efactor said:
Serious question about that play. 

Did Wilson get any grief for throwing a pick to lose the super bowl?  On a national level, it seems he got a total pass.  Virtually all the negative feedback I saw was blaming Pete or Bevel for not running it.  Wilson seemed like the teflon man there. 

I thought calling a slant into the middle of the defense was beyond stupid there, but don't think passing the ball was a bad play.  I always thought that if they had run a play fake with Lynch, there would have been someone wide open in the flat or Wilson could have gotten to the edge.  They did that earlier in the game and Baldwin (I'm pretty sure it was Baldwin) was wide open.  That timing slant made no sense. Phenomenal play by Butler to make the pick and he said how they were ready for that play.  So many ways for that play to end up bad and they had so many better options at that point.
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Locally, yes Wilson got grief.  I know that Carroll shouldered the blame nationally, but I doubt he even called the play (Bevell had a lot of liberty with play calls).  I had no problem with the play call and every problem with Russell's decision.  It needed to be a slam dunk or throw away.

 
Stinkin Ref said:
Doug B said:
Doesn’t work that way. Again, ask Drew Brees.
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For the guys like Brees, Rodgers, Marino....there are also Brady, Aikman, Montana, etc.....it can go both ways....
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The post I was responding to, fred had written that "[Mahomes] can succeed even with lesser talent".

I guess it's a matter of degree ... but all I'm saying is that the Chiefs would be mistaken to take Mahomes so much for granted, that they overlook keeping up the roster around him. Brady, Aikman, and Montana were all part of rock-solid 22-man rosters -- they weren't carrying 2-14 rosters to Lombardis.

For much of Brees' tenure in New Orleans, the team wandered through the wilderness in building an overall roster -- especially a defense. Brees was so good, there was some safety felt in drafting tape-measure projects, again especially on defense. Mahomes doesn't walk on water -- if ever saddled with 30-something-ranked defenses and porous offensive lines, his teams will finish sub-.500.

 
Schools are closed here in KC tomorrow for the parade. Supposed to snow 1-3" tomorrow morning and cold.

Parking garages near the parade route are letting cars in tonight.  All hotel rooms downtown have been booked since last week. 

I'll be at work watching on the computer. We went to the Royals parade, but it was 70 degrees that day. Gonna sit this one out. 

 
Kyle Shanahan abandoned the run when the 49ers had the Kansas City Chiefs on the ropes.

If he had just stayed with the ground game, the 49ers would have run out the clock, demoralized the Chiefs and the 49ers would own their sixth Lombardi Trophy.

Instead, he enabled Kansas City to rally from a 10-point deficit for a 31-20 victory in Super Bowl LIV on Sunday night at Hard Rock Stadium in Miami Gardens, Fla.

Everybody is looking for aspects of the 49ers’ loss to second-guess and find blame. It comes with the territory. And for a team that made it to the Super Bowl on the power and deception of its running game, it only stands to reason that is where people would first look.

So hold on a second while we find the specific examples of where Shanahan repeatedly called pass play after pass play when it was obvious he should have kept grinding out running plays.

Hold on just one second as we get that information for you.

OK, here we go ...

The 49ers led by 10 points with 11:57 after Tarvarius Moore’s interception of Patrick Mahomes at the 13-yard line. Raheem Mostert picked up 6 yards on first down. The 49ers should have run the ball again on second down.

But Jimmy Garoppolo hit George Kittle with a 12-yard pass on second down, so Shanahan can be forgiven for that play call.

On first-and-10, Mostert picked up just 1 yard. OK, Shanahan was justified in calling a pass on second and 9. An incompletion and a false start led to a third-and-14 situation.

That drive was not a good example of Shanahan abandoning the run, so let’s move on to the next series.

When the 49ers took over again with 6:13 remaining, Kansas City had cut the lead to 20-17. The 49ers’ first offensive play was from their own 20-yard line.

Mostert gained 5 yards on first down, setting up a second-and-5. It was wide open for Shanahan to run or pass. The Chiefs had eight defenders in the box. At this stage of the game, Garoppolo had completed 18 of his 22 pass attempts.

Garoppolo faked an inside handoff to Mostert, who if he had been handed the ball would have run into the teeth of the Kansas City defense to the left. Kittle, lined up in the right slot, was wide open for what would have been at least a 10-yard gain in the middle of the field.

But defensive tackle Chris Jones made a play that could rank as the Kansas City’s most important defensive play of the game. He lined up over left guard Laken Tomlinson. Then at the snap, he slid across center Ben Garland and toward right guard Mike Person. Jones was able to get only 2 yards of penetration but he got his hands up in time to bat down the pass at the line of scrimmage.

That set up a third-and-5 play, and it should not be a surprise to anyone that the 49ers tried to throw the ball in that situation. Garoppolo’s pass intended for Kendrick Bourne was incomplete and the 49ers were forced to punt.

The next time the 49ers touched the ball, they were trailing 24-20 with 2:39 remaining. They had to go 85 yards for the go-ahead points.

Mostert gained 17 yards on first down. After a false start, the 49ers passed on first-and-15. That was reasonable. Garoppolo hit Kittle for 8 yards. Then, Bourne made a 16-yard catch to pick up a first down.

On first-and-10 from the 49 with 1:49 remaining, the 49ers were set up to run or pass. Again, Garoppolo had an open receiver -- this time, Deebo Samuel -- and, again, Jones batted the ball down at the line of scrimmage.

Second-and-10, incomplete. Third and 10, incomplete with an overthrow on a deep pass intended for Emmanuel Sanders. Sack on fourth down. Game over.

Up until the fourth-down sack, the 49ers averaged 7.8 yards every time Garoppolo attempted a pass. The 49ers averaged 6.4 yards running the ball.

To look at the raw numbers is one thing. The 49ers attempted 22 run plays compared to 32 passes for the entire game, including the fourth-down sack of Garoppolo that wrapped up the Kansas City victory.

[RELATED: Why 49ers' stunning 2019 season will be nearly impossible to replicate]

There were a lot of reasons why the 49ers squandered a 10-point lead in the fourth quarter. The pass rush was a step behind Patrick Mahomes. The 49ers had coverage issues on the back end. The offense missed at least one chance for a big play.

It might be easy to find fault with the 49ers’ run-pass ratio. But it is more difficult to find specific instances when Shanahan was just plain wrong to choose pass over run.

But everyone is judged on the results.

Shanahan’s two questionable fourth-quarter decisions of pass over run looked to be good play calls – until the moment they were batted down at the line of scrimmage.

And, ultimately, how those plays turned out is all that will be remembered.
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Play calling

 
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