roadkill1292
Footballguy
Sorry, forgot to answer your original question. No, I don't think there are any fees paid. But I'm still relatively new and don't be surprised if one of our older footy hands comes in and contradicts me.
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Supreme Court Rules Sports Betting Legal (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Smack Tripper
- Start date
cheese
Footballguy
This is a big one, and isn’t it also true that with how prominent LIVE (in-game) betting is in the rest of the world that these online sportsbooks are buying up the commercial spots on the pregame, postgame, etc as well? Think fanduel/DK commercial spree of a few years ago.
Obviously “commercials” are slightly different in soccer, but it would now be realistic to see William Hill or something commercials being the new fanduel. When that kind of thing happens it can impact the advertising revenue for everyone just by supply and demand.
This I can see. If DraftKings is offering sports book style betting, it makes total sense the team could sell advertising to the teams.
But that's an entirely different thing than what the teams are talking about with them asking for a cut of all the money spent with the game operators. That seems unreasonable to me. And without precedent.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
I'm excited for this because in its infancy it's going to be the Wild, Wild, West until it gets regulated more seriously.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Somewhat odd that the plaintiffs in this case, the parties who sued Christie and NJ for repealing certain gambling restrictions, were the NCAA, NBA, NFL, NHL and the Commissioner of Baseball.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Got any theories? Because I don't understand it, either, after seeing a clear and professional relationship between sports and the gaming industry in other parts of the world (the occasional scandal notwithstanding). Is it simply another part of the fairly unique American puritanism regarding vices?
belljr
Footballguy
If you buy this bs
The leagues' lawsuit said that allowing sports gambling in New Jersey would threaten the “reputations and goodwill” between fans and teams. Damage to that bond, the lawsuit states, would cause irreversible damage to sports franchises.
“The sponsorship, operation, advertising, promotion, licensure and authorization of sports gambling in New Jersey,” the lawsuit states, “would irreparably harm amateur and professional sports by fostering suspicion that individual plays and final scores of games may have been influenced by factors other than honest athletic competition.”
The leagues say they will fight the expansion of sports betting because it “undermines the public's faith and confidence in the character of amateur and professional team sports.”
mquinnjr
Footballguy
The NFL is a wasteland in a world without fantasy and sports gambling vs. the world we live in today where you watch the Browns vs. the Jets because of wagers and/or fantasy implications.
belljr
Footballguy
And you know what - if they want to say you can't bet on Amateur sports then I kind of get it. But the rest
The NFL is a wasteland in a world without fantasy and sports gambling vs. the world we live in today where you watch the Browns vs. the Jets because of wagers and/or fantasy implications.
Right.And you know what - if they want to say you can't bet on Amateur sports then I kind of get it. But the rest
NBA and Silver took a very calculated chance here by welcoming sports betting.
As per the previous arguments that NBA franchise values may or may not double (as stated by Cuban) - I think it may be an exaggeration, but only a bit. Their values are strongly influenced by television deals, and bringing in more casual fans by offering gambling is only going to add viewership and give the NBA strength for their next contracts with the networks/cable.
The NFL is the biggest hypocrites on the face of Earth if you ask me. They shun gambling, but the fact is without gambling and fantasy football, their league is ####. They market well, but it's easy to do so when your sport is only a once a week venture. Of course you can sell out 8 events per year so attendance seems strong. But lose the casual fan, lose the fantasy football nerd, and we shall see. NFL is a major bore. Stopped watching years ago and never looked back.
I don't watch the NBA, but I sure do love to gamble. I will not bet on the NBA, but I'm very glad that the hypocrisy against sports gambling has come to light.
The argument against legalizing sports betting on college sports is OMG when this is legal, people are going to pay athletes to throw matches. The poor college kids don't get paid a thing and major gamblers will be able to step in and bribe them. Uhhhh, note to American public - billions upon billions are ALREADY being gambled on college sports every year both legally and illegally. Legalizing it in the U.S. will not change a damn thing.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Perhaps the professional leagues were just unhappy with the deal Christie was offering them. The NFL also opposed fantasy football (many years ago) and DFS (more recently) until they realized how good it could be for them.
At least with the NBA, there’s been speculation (maybe reporting?) that the league wants Congress to enact federal legislation that would require royalty payments to the sports leagues for wagers. The leagues don’t want to have to try and negotiate that type of deal with every state.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I think the early part of the century was the Wild, Wild West, we're starting the last phase now where things become regulated, and controlled, and then normalized. There'll surely be a lot of wrestling and deals between the various entities as to who gets what, who operates where.
A fixed World Series is the nadir. Or the pinnacle, depending on your view.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I think Silver understood which way the wind was blowing. And now we're likely to see those same leagues who shunned gambling with their hands out. Not a good or bad thing, it's just how it works imo. Whether anything gets put into those hands remains to be seen. I don't think there'll really be any sort of 1% "integrity fee" or anything like that. It's already in the interests of the sportsbooks to sniff our match-fixing/game-fixing on their own, rival European wagering operations coordinate between themselves to find betting irregularities.
Stuart Ullman
Footballguy
Learned the proper spelling of Wild, Wild West. Learned better perspective on where we are with gambling. Learned the meaning of nadir (Arabic origin).
I can sit by the learning tree all day. You're the man, GPJ!
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There will be match fixing either way. To me, it's much ado about nothing if that is the strongest argument you can make against legalizing sports betting.
Biggest markets in the entire world have scandals come out every few years in match fixing. Honestly the biggest way to PREVENT it is to ALLOW gambling as the money knows what's going on. Huge match fixing scandals are not regularly caught by the organizations, but rather the markets that wager on these events.
Cricket, Tennis, Soccer - all are the largest markets and all have had major scandals in the past, and to this very day.
And to the poster that said that the NFL was against DFS or fantasy football until they say it could be good for them, please, do not be that naive. They were 100% against it until they could license their name to it and make tons of money off of it. NFW they care about anything else. It's all about the money. I hate the NFL more than any other entity (perhaps excepting FC Barcelona). Their hypocrisy knows no bounds and millions of sheep stand in line every Sunday to fork over their money hand over fist. I applaud the NBA and I'm not even a pro basketball fan.
Biggest markets in the entire world have scandals come out every few years in match fixing. Honestly the biggest way to PREVENT it is to ALLOW gambling as the money knows what's going on. Huge match fixing scandals are not regularly caught by the organizations, but rather the markets that wager on these events.
Cricket, Tennis, Soccer - all are the largest markets and all have had major scandals in the past, and to this very day.
And to the poster that said that the NFL was against DFS or fantasy football until they say it could be good for them, please, do not be that naive. They were 100% against it until they could license their name to it and make tons of money off of it. NFW they care about anything else. It's all about the money. I hate the NFL more than any other entity (perhaps excepting FC Barcelona). Their hypocrisy knows no bounds and millions of sheep stand in line every Sunday to fork over their money hand over fist. I applaud the NBA and I'm not even a pro basketball fan.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I think it worth noting, and this might somehow be applicable to college sports, too, that the Black Sox scandal was at least partly fueled by the owner's cheapness and baseball's Reserve Clause, the most hateful and un-American feature in domestic sports until the pros started drafting college players.
I also think that this will ratchet up the pressure on the schools to abolish the amateurism rules. Spending that effort to keep student athletes from making money legitimately will just make fixing games that much more likely.
I also think that this will ratchet up the pressure on the schools to abolish the amateurism rules. Spending that effort to keep student athletes from making money legitimately will just make fixing games that much more likely.
Here's the way I think of it. And maybe this is too cynical. But if the NBA says they want 1% (or any percent) of the money in play, what happens when the reply back to them is, "Or you'll do what?"
In other words, anytime someone demands something, there is an assumed understanding if they don't get it, something negative is going to happen.
What does the NBA say when DraftKings says, "No thanks. We'll pay you nothing." What does the NBA do then?
In other words, anytime someone demands something, there is an assumed understanding if they don't get it, something negative is going to happen.
What does the NBA say when DraftKings says, "No thanks. We'll pay you nothing." What does the NBA do then?
Capella
Footballguy
Allow me to collect my thoughts and elaborate.
Why would the NFL oppose fantasy football and DFS if it would expand their client base? Make more people interested in their product? Have more people with a vested interest in the game? The NFL back then was a non-profit entity too, so they should be entirely on board if a bunch of guys wanted to get together, form a fantasy football league, draft their own teams and enjoy the sport more. They would then buy the NFL sunday ticket, red zone, what have you. Would that not be good enough for the good of the NFL?
No, of course it wouldn't. Because this non-profit entity could not endorse something that they could not get their greedy little hands on.
I think the argument would be more semantics here. It should have stated
"he NFL also opposed fantasy football (many years ago) and DFS (more recently) until they realized how good profitable it could be for them."
And how in the world would a non-profit entity, that avoids paying taxes like the NFL care about making a profit on the fans?
mquinnjr
Footballguy
Monmouth Park chasing sports leagues for damages after court fight
God bless your little hearts, state of NJ
God bless your little hearts, state of NJ
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
Grunt. That's a nice opportunity to attract a big audience.........eight days a year. And while it's a creative idea, kudos, I don't think that it's a make or break deal in the low margin game of sports betting, at least not one strong enough to let the NFL force the industry's hand in any kind of dispute over rights.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Nba has 40 home games as does the nhl and mlb has 80......nfl while only having 8...still thats 60 to 80 k people in each stadium 17 weeks plus playoffs and u know people will bet preseason
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I would think the NBA and the players association could sue for use of the NBA IP, brand, trademarks, including players' and teams names and images, in a for-profit endeavor without license. It seems to me this would be no different than someone printing Lebron James shirts and selling them without any agreement in place.
I guess a related question - does FBG pay any license fee to the NFL or NFLPA?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
An interesting argument.
And another one. Plus a good question asked.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Do the current Vegas casinos have an agreement to pay the leagues??
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The NFL is not a non-profit entity anymore - and even when it was, it was only the corporate offices in NY that enjoyed tax exempt rights, and that wasn't where the money was made. The 32 teams that actually generate and receive the real money were always and still are subject to being taxed.
Moe.
Footballguy
No, and the NBA has been working with Sportradar (an "integrity" service) for a couple of years already, so the claim that this will lead to new expenses doesn't really sound right to me either.
I have as good of a chance being paid from casinos as these sports leagues. There is NO way they get money and there is nothing they can do about it, unless some legislation is passed. Vegas doesn’t pay now and they never will. Sports betting is a low margin business and it wouldn’t make sense to give up heir profit. As someone said earlier, 1% of handle is like 20% of actual win.
Capella
Footballguy
Absolutely. These leagues will have to come up with their own software to get people interested. And hey that’s great! More competition = lower vig maybe.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
They won't dirty their hands directly, I think you're going to see "DraftKings/William Hill/Cantor is the exclusive gambling partner of the Dallas Cowboys," or whatever.
Capella
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Aren't there places already offering standard point spread bets at less than 10% vig? (not a gambler, I don't know much about this). But it would seem logical that once the market consolidates into a few really big books, that they would compete on vig. And have the volumes to deal with the market fluctuations.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Standard for major markets (NFL sides/totals, NBA sides/totals, etc.) are all "dime juice", or -110/-110. That comes out a vig of about 5%. For "down-market" bets, things that are a little more obscure (e.g. most prop markets) and attract a higher ratio of sharp money, you'll see 15-cent juice, for obvious reasons.
My guess is that everyone that comes above-board will all settle in around 10 cent juice. It's hard to go lower and still turn a nice profit, go higher and you're going to lose customers.
To answer your question, there are some major offshore books that offer 5 or 6-cent juice for MLB. 5Dimes, BetOnline, Heritage all have reduced-juice offerings. For 5D you can get it on all major sports, provided you eschew a bonus and you're betting the day of games, in other words its not available to bet early.
There's also a lot of juice/profit to be made on parlays and futures.
Hi @CletiusMaximus That was something the leagues tried to do about 20 years ago with CDM games and Charlie Weigert saying they owned the names. It was basically what caused the Fantasy Sports Trade Association to form. They defended CDM against Major League Baseball and won. So sites like ours are treated like newspapers. We don't pay any license fee to the NFL or NFLPA.
East Coast Bias
Footballguy
So FanDuel expects to have their "Sports Betting Product" available by the NFL season.
East Coast Bias
Footballguy
facook
Footballguy
Sweeeet. Not much different than offshore other than I think I'd be more confident in payout.
East Coast Bias
Footballguy
Full email from FanDuel below.
We have very exciting news to share with you. Today, we are announcing that we signed a merger agreement with Paddy Power Betfair to combine our US businesses. This deal will bring together the shared talent, technology, and resources of both companies to better serve sports fans throughout the United States. We’re sure you have questions about what this means for you. Here is what we can tell you right now:
1) Both companies will remain operational and maintain their existing brands. You can continue to play on FanDuel like you have always done. No action or account changes are required on your part.
2) This deal will not impact our fantasy sports contests and we will continue to host the games you know and love. We remain committed to fantasy sports investment and innovation. So far this year, we’ve added new game modes like Home Run Challenge, new scoring formats like Beat the Score, new contests like Single Game, and new sports like NASCAR. On deck, we have a host of new initiatives launching throughout 2018, including new games and features for this year’s NFL contests. We know you’ll love what we’re cooking up.
3) Last week’s Supreme Court ruling on sports betting is a welcome opportunity for sports fans throughout the United States to enjoy new sports gaming experiences and this deal will accelerate our ability to deliver those experiences to you. We’re currently working on a sports betting product which we expect to be available by the 2018 NFL season. We can’t wait for you to see what we have in store!
While we think this deal is great for our business, we know it’s great for you. As we get closer to launching these new fantasy sports and sports betting enhancements, we will reach out to you with updates and invite you to play.
To celebrate our combination with Betfair US and thank you for being a FanDuel customer, we’re hosting a special player appreciation contest, the $15K MLB Fan Appreciation Free Play. The contest starts tonight at 7:05pm ET.
Matt King
CEO, FanDuel
We have very exciting news to share with you. Today, we are announcing that we signed a merger agreement with Paddy Power Betfair to combine our US businesses. This deal will bring together the shared talent, technology, and resources of both companies to better serve sports fans throughout the United States. We’re sure you have questions about what this means for you. Here is what we can tell you right now:
1) Both companies will remain operational and maintain their existing brands. You can continue to play on FanDuel like you have always done. No action or account changes are required on your part.
2) This deal will not impact our fantasy sports contests and we will continue to host the games you know and love. We remain committed to fantasy sports investment and innovation. So far this year, we’ve added new game modes like Home Run Challenge, new scoring formats like Beat the Score, new contests like Single Game, and new sports like NASCAR. On deck, we have a host of new initiatives launching throughout 2018, including new games and features for this year’s NFL contests. We know you’ll love what we’re cooking up.
3) Last week’s Supreme Court ruling on sports betting is a welcome opportunity for sports fans throughout the United States to enjoy new sports gaming experiences and this deal will accelerate our ability to deliver those experiences to you. We’re currently working on a sports betting product which we expect to be available by the 2018 NFL season. We can’t wait for you to see what we have in store!
While we think this deal is great for our business, we know it’s great for you. As we get closer to launching these new fantasy sports and sports betting enhancements, we will reach out to you with updates and invite you to play.
To celebrate our combination with Betfair US and thank you for being a FanDuel customer, we’re hosting a special player appreciation contest, the $15K MLB Fan Appreciation Free Play. The contest starts tonight at 7:05pm ET.
Matt King
CEO, FanDuel
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Just so its clear, paddy power betfair bought fanduel.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Why do I picture a political cartoon of the Wizard of Oz bellowing out this quote wearing a football helmet; meanwhile, Roger Goodell is the man behind the curtain wearing a Fanduel shirt with a fistful of documents referring to concussions, fantasy rosters, and kneeling during the anthem, and PED's spilling from his pockets?
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
oof
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Was hearing that the leagues want a cut.
Silly. The gambling is going to drum up quite a bit of interest, and the leagues are going to indirectly make money off this. Just like they do off fantasy football.
Silly. The gambling is going to drum up quite a bit of interest, and the leagues are going to indirectly make money off this. Just like they do off fantasy football.
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East Coast Bias
Footballguy
DraftKings Sportsbook "Coming Soon." No real information provided.
