Tate or Ward? (1 Viewer)

[LawFitz]

Let's just assume that Foster is out at least the first two weeks and possibly beyond.

Which of the two back ups is the better play?

Ward is next in line and the more trusted pass blocker.

Tate is younger, seemingly more talented and a better fit in the nasty ZBS they've used to make stars of no name RBs repeatedly in Houston.

I was hoping we could separate this discussion from the arguing about the severity of Foster's injury (and other unrelated issues) in the Foster hammy thread. Foster missing time this season opens the seat in a very productive RB offense and this decision could be huge for leagues this season if the hammy lingers.

Ward is probably available in most leagues, Tate in some. He is in mine so it's a big question for me at least and I assume others too.

 

[Ever Present Lurker]

Let's just assume that Foster is out at least the first two weeks and possibly beyond.Which of the two back ups is the better play?Ward is next in line and the more trusted pass blocker.Tate is younger, seemingly more talented and a better fit in the nasty ZBS they've used to make stars of no name RBs repeatedly in Houston.I was hoping we could separate this discussion from the arguing about the severity of Foster's injury (and other unrelated issues) in the Foster hammy thread. Foster missing time this season opens the seat in a very productive RB offense and this decision could be huge for leagues this season if the hammy lingers.Ward is probably available in most leagues, Tate in some. He is in mine so it's a big question for me at least and I assume others too.

Foster owner here, I was able to get Ward, unable to get Tate. I fully expect Tate to thrive, should Foster be unavailable. This is just based on preseason looks.

 

[Houston turmOiler]

I would expect Ward to start and Tate to split time with him, at least against Indy. Just a homer's opinion...

 

[LawFitz]

I would expect Ward to start and Tate to split time with him, at least against Indy. Just a homer's opinion...

Agreed, but who thrives? Crapshoot?

 

[eakfootball]

When two players are close, I tend to side with the 2nd year guy over the 31 year old.

 

[Brian Sinclair]

I'm a Foster owner in an auction keeper league. I have Ward from last year and was able to pick up Tate. Nothing like a little insurance.

 

[ffguru56]

Here are a few tweets from the almighty Sigmund Bloom today in regards to the Houston RB situation:

Yes, Tate has younger legs, but like @stephstradley sez, Kubiak cares about pass pro and Tate isn't there yet.

Ben Tate may prove to be the more valuable back over the course of the year, but to hedge your bets for week 1, the answer is Ward.

@fantasyfanplay more like Tate's talent will cause them to split work on 1st and 2nd down.

 

[Ping Pong]

Here are a few tweets from the almighty Sigmund Bloom today in regards to the Houston RB situation:Yes, Tate has younger legs, but like @stephstradley sez, Kubiak cares about pass pro and Tate isn't there yet.Ben Tate may prove to be the more valuable back over the course of the year, but to hedge your bets for week 1, the answer is Ward.@fantasyfanplay more like Tate's talent will cause them to split work on 1st and 2nd down.

Not being anywhere near as knowledgeable as Bloom, but my thought was that Ward will start in week 1, and probably take at least 60% of the carries. Tate has talent, yes, but he's still raw talent. How many times have we seen a coach start "raw talent" in week 1, especially when they're not already at the top of the depth chart? Remember how long Chester Taylor started over AP? How Thomas Jones continues to start over Charles? I think that if this were a question of "If Foster misses the season, who is the more valuable back?" then the answer would be Tate based simply on his upside. But, the question right now is "who is the more valuable back assuming Foster only misses 1-2 weeks," and the answer to that question is Ward, based simply on his presence atop the depth chart. It's not like Ward has been putting up stinkers either...

 

[ffguru56]

Here are a few tweets from the almighty Sigmund Bloom today in regards to the Houston RB situation:Yes, Tate has younger legs, but like @stephstradley sez, Kubiak cares about pass pro and Tate isn't there yet.Ben Tate may prove to be the more valuable back over the course of the year, but to hedge your bets for week 1, the answer is Ward.@fantasyfanplay more like Tate's talent will cause them to split work on 1st and 2nd down.

Not being anywhere near as knowledgeable as Bloom, but my thought was that Ward will start in week 1, and probably take at least 60% of the carries. Tate has talent, yes, but he's still raw talent. How many times have we seen a coach start "raw talent" in week 1, especially when they're not already at the top of the depth chart? Remember how long Chester Taylor started over AP? How Thomas Jones continues to start over Charles? I think that if this were a question of "If Foster misses the season, who is the more valuable back?" then the answer would be Tate based simply on his upside. But, the question right now is "who is the more valuable back assuming Foster only misses 1-2 weeks," and the answer to that question is Ward, based simply on his presence atop the depth chart. It's not like Ward has been putting up stinkers either...

I fully agree.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I'm a Foster owner in an auction keeper league. I have Ward from last year and was able to pick up Tate. Nothing like a little insurance.

What's the rest of your roster look like?

 

[UnknownCoach]

Houston offense thrives against Indy. If Peyton Manning misses the opener, Houston is going to run the ball down the throat of the Colts and probably blow them out. I would start Tate with confidence if Manning is out. Maybe Tate and Ward both have a big game. I'd bet on Tate who could get a chance to show off in a blowout.

 

[footballnerd]

would be Ward's job to lose, and lose it he might

 

[Bri]

I haven't seen Ward play as well elsewhere as he did with the Giants. Is that his age? systems?

WIth the Giants, he did whatever was necessary and did it well.

As a younger guy- most people thought Jacobs was going to get X number of carries and be used here N there once he was drafted. Ward did well and was very much a roadblock to those plans. Jacobs had a very hard time beating him out and I'm not sure that he ever did. I think, in time, Coughlin just decided on a system utilizing all his backs.

Ward is an excellent receiver and since he spent most of his career near big Brandon Jacobs, people seem to forget he's also a fairly big RB himself.

I don't believe he has any break-away ability and/or speed fast enough to outrun most defenders. He's more of the type that is tough (always gets backup) and wears a defense down.

This leaves a definitive spot for Tate to be the home-run guy, but Schaub's overblown tendency to get hurt (even if overblown) is a concern.

I don't think Ward can carry the rock all game long anymore. He got tired when Jacobs was hurt and seemed to wear down when he was younger. Yeah he wore down the D, but he looked tired himself in the 4th Q.

I don't have any idea how Kubiak will utilize them, but I don't think Ward can go all game long as some implied.

The Texans do have a tendency to get into these scoring duels with divisional foes. KC scored plenty against them when he was with the Titans. Quick scan at PFR looks like 3 games over 30 and one 13-12 grudge match. He didn't throw for a ton of yards, 220?, but they moved the ball very well. It's possible this is why the Colts signed him as well. Imagine Peyton is pulled as being sore after a few minutes of action and that was the plan all along. Who knows. The Colts have better WRs than the Titans, but it's a foreign offense to KC. Still, he's very much not a pushover against the Texans. The Texans DBs have been extremely undisciplined and both Peyton and KC made it look easy to throw against them at times the last few years. (Likely why) The Texans have had plenty of turnover in their secondary, but...again I don't think the Colts will be any sort of pushover without Peyton in week 1.

For this thread, I don't recall any of these teams playing much defense worth noting. I'd expect a high scoring game and plenty of offense/FF points to go around.

 

[LawFitz]

Both guys are being held out of the fourth preseason game. Could this be an indication that the Texans are not optimistic about Foster playing in ten days? Maybe they're just being safe and I'm reading too much there.

 

[Mark Wimer]

Both guys are being held out of the fourth preseason game. Could this be an indication that the Texans are not optimistic about Foster playing in ten days? Maybe they're just being safe and I'm reading too much there.

I think it is a little of both - hamstring injuries/recoveries can be more time intensive than initial indications would lead one to believe - so they are preserving their likely week 1 starting tandem IF Foster can't bounce back from this injury. I think that they are erring on the side of caution, but that they are erring on the side of caution because hamstrings can be so touchy to rehab...

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I don't own any of the Houston backs, so no dog in the hunt...(sorry about the tired cliche)

Until the coaching staff comes out and says it, (which I doubt) I think that Tate/Ward is as close to a 50/50 split in carries and puts either/or in the range of fantasy expectations of a RB#3 at best.

They vulture each other's value, so it's going to be risk to start either one early in the season, provided you drafted a good team with RB depth. Later in the season, Foster's injury would have had more value with injuries and bye weeks. But most everyone is full strength (except Foster owners sans handcuffs ). It's a situation to avoid until there is a defined starter. If you roll with either Ward or Tate, it could backfire. Why do that when your team is full strength to start the season?

Both backs are must adds in case Foster is slow to recover, but the potential lotto ticket will need some time to cash in.

My

 

[Ever Present Lurker]

One thing I keep thinking about:

Remember last year, around week 4, Derrick Ward started looking awfully good on limited touches? And people were all aflutter about "OMG Foster is going to start losing carries?! FML!"

Of course, the season went on, Arian Foster never let up, and put up MVP caliber numbers. Derrick Ward was used sparingly.

And here we are just ONE year later. And we've all moved on to the next flavor-of-the-month (myself included), and totally discount that Ward, too, could thrive in this system - a point so many were dying to concede last season.

Would it be Tate? Would it be Ward? Could it be both? Only Kubiak knows.

 

[whodeywhodey]

Did you all not see Tate in the preseason?

I don't usually put a lot of weight into the preseason but he looked just as good as Foster in a few of the games. That O-line is ridiculous.

Can't say the same about Ward.

 

[bakes]

Ward is reliable - he does his job solidly, and has a pretty much defined role in the offense. My guess would be that Tate would take the majority of Foster's carries, with Ward doing his usual role and picking up a few more touches. Definitely Ward in the game more on passing downs as he's pretty sound as a blocker.

 

[whodeywhodey]

Rotoworld's take:

Coach Gary Kubiak confirmed that Derrick Ward remains the Texans' No. 2 running back "right now.""But there's going to be a lot of football played this week," added Kubiak. "...I could see us playing three guys on gameday." This does nothing to ameliorate our concern that the Texans will divvy up carries early in the season. One of the most impressive backs of the preseason, Tate has severely outplayed Ward and is clearly on the rise. Choosing Foster may necessitate taking up two roster spots with his backups.

Ben Tate carried the ball 11 times for 52 yards in Saturday's preseason game.Tate has now taken the ball 20 times for 147 yards this preseason. However, Derrick Ward was first to enter tonight's game after Arian Foster left with an aggravation of his hamstring injury. Ward has rushed just 18 yards on eight carries while dealing with a concussion, but is coming off a season where he averaged 6.3 yards per tote (on 50 carries). Tate has still made a compelling case to be Foster's primary backup. Just don't count out Ward until you hear it from the Texans' coaches.

 

[jsharlan]

Ward averaged over 6 yac last year and Houston went out and resigned him when he was a FA this offseason. Ward will see the field first and I think he will get slightly more carries in a timeshare. What Tate does with his limited opening carries will determine what happens going forward, but for week 1 I think Ward is the play.

 

[Kenny Powers]

As someone who missed out on both Tate and Ward, I hope Foster comes back ASAP. Its one thing for the Arian owner to get production, its another for some other guy in your league to get starter production in a great offense from their RB5 from the get go.

 

[Brian Sinclair]

I'm a Foster owner in an auction keeper league. I have Ward from last year and was able to pick up Tate. Nothing like a little insurance.

What's the rest of your roster look like?

QB Rivers, Hasselbeck, BeckRB Foster, Tate, Ward, S. Jackson, Addai, Fred Jackson, Bernard ScottWR Cal Johnson, Vincent Jackson, H.Ward, Decker, Jacoby JonesTE Fred Davis, Shockey (working to upgrade)PK GostkowskiD Chargers, Saints

 

[whodeywhodey]

I'm a Foster owner in an auction keeper league. I have Ward from last year and was able to pick up Tate. Nothing like a little insurance.

What's the rest of your roster look like?

QB Rivers, Hasselbeck, BeckRB Foster, Tate, Ward, S. Jackson, Addai, Fred Jackson, Bernard ScottWR Cal Johnson, Vincent Jackson, H.Ward, Decker, Jacoby JonesTE Fred Davis, Shockey (working to upgrade)PK GostkowskiD Chargers, Saints

I am pretty sure he was making fun of you as your post didn't really contribute anything to this discussion.

 

[jackdubl]

Foster owner here. Trying to draft both tomorrow night. I'll be starting Ward week 1 if I do.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

WARD early on, if it lingers then Tate would see a lot more action. Tate to my knowledge is struggling with pass protection.

 

[We Tigers]

Frankly, I think the real answer is "neither." If Foster just misses a week or two, Schaub will throw 40+ times and each of these guys will carry 8-12 times. As either a Foster owner or an opportunistic manager, I'd be looking to my bench and the third or fourth RB I drafted over Ward or Tate.

 

[shnikies]

Frankly, I think the real answer is "neither." If Foster just misses a week or two, Schaub will throw 40+ times and each of these guys will carry 8-12 times. As either a Foster owner or an opportunistic manager, I'd be looking to my bench and the third or fourth RB I drafted over Ward or Tate.

So, they'd just choose to not put the best run blocking line in the NFL to work because Foster is out?

 

[stbugs]

I'm a Foster owner in an auction keeper league. I have Ward from last year and was able to pick up Tate. Nothing like a little insurance.

What's the rest of your roster look like?

QB Rivers, Hasselbeck, BeckRB Foster, Tate, Ward, S. Jackson, Addai, Fred Jackson, Bernard ScottWR Cal Johnson, Vincent Jackson, H.Ward, Decker, Jacoby JonesTE Fred Davis, Shockey (working to upgrade)PK GostkowskiD Chargers, Saints

I am pretty sure he was making fun of you as your post didn't really contribute anything to this discussion.

I am pretty sure that everyone in here, including Mr. Sinclair knew that as well. I for one, was hoping he would post his team in response.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Frankly, I think the real answer is "neither." If Foster just misses a week or two, Schaub will throw 40+ times and each of these guys will carry 8-12 times. As either a Foster owner or an opportunistic manager, I'd be looking to my bench and the third or fourth RB I drafted over Ward or Tate.

Yep, totally agree. It's the start of the season and if you don't feel good about your WR3/4 or RB3/4 as a plug and play flex to stand in for Foster in week #1, then you didn't draft a very good team. And if you have Tate/Ward and don't have Foster, it makes even less sense to start either over your RB3 you drafted.

 

[shnikies]

Frankly, I think the real answer is "neither." If Foster just misses a week or two, Schaub will throw 40+ times and each of these guys will carry 8-12 times. As either a Foster owner or an opportunistic manager, I'd be looking to my bench and the third or fourth RB I drafted over Ward or Tate.

Yep, totally agree. It's the start of the season and if you don't feel good about your WR3/4 or RB3/4 as a plug and play flex to stand in for Foster in week #1, then you didn't draft a very good team. And if you have Tate/Ward and don't have Foster, it makes even less sense to start either over your RB3 you drafted.

If Foster doesn't play week 1 and Kubiak announces either Ward or Tate as the starter, you start that player against the Colts who gave up the 8th most amount of fantasy points to running backs last year. There aren't many running backs in the NFL who wouldn't be successful behind that line and I mean no disrespect to Foster by saying that.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

If Foster doesn't play week 1 and Kubiak announces either Ward or Tate as the starter, you start that player against the Colts who gave up the 8th most amount of fantasy points to running backs last year. There aren't many running backs in the NFL who wouldn't be successful behind that line and I mean no disrespect to Foster by saying that.

I'd be inclined to agree with you, if and only if (IFF), Kubiack declared a clear-cut starter from the Tate/Ward committee. Without confirmation, it's a guessing game.

 

[shnikies]

If Foster doesn't play week 1 and Kubiak announces either Ward or Tate as the starter, you start that player against the Colts who gave up the 8th most amount of fantasy points to running backs last year. There aren't many running backs in the NFL who wouldn't be successful behind that line and I mean no disrespect to Foster by saying that.

I'd be inclined to agree with you, if and only if (IFF), Kubiack declared a clear-cut starter from the Tate/Ward committee. Without confirmation, it's a guessing game.

There will be a starter and I would roll the dice on that person regardless of how the carries end up being split. I have a hard time believing the starter wouldn't be a top 20 start at running back.

 

[We Tigers]

Frankly, I think the real answer is "neither." If Foster just misses a week or two, Schaub will throw 40+ times and each of these guys will carry 8-12 times. As either a Foster owner or an opportunistic manager, I'd be looking to my bench and the third or fourth RB I drafted over Ward or Tate.

Yep, totally agree. It's the start of the season and if you don't feel good about your WR3/4 or RB3/4 as a plug and play flex to stand in for Foster in week #1, then you didn't draft a very good team. And if you have Tate/Ward and don't have Foster, it makes even less sense to start either over your RB3 you drafted.

If Foster doesn't play week 1 and Kubiak announces either Ward or Tate as the starter, you start that player against the Colts who gave up the 8th most amount of fantasy points to running backs last year. There aren't many running backs in the NFL who wouldn't be successful behind that line and I mean no disrespect to Foster by saying that.

Don't think this works if Ward is named the starter. You really think Tate won't see any action after how he looked in preseason? If it's Tate, well, he's already on someone else's team if you've drafted by now. If you haven't drafted when the announcement comes, by all means make Ben Tate your 11th rounder, I guess. The Texas ran just under 25 times/game last year, and I'm just not excited about guesswork unless we see some really clear evidence. Brandon Jackson was a backup-made-starter last year, and we all saw how much of a lead back he wasn't. I still expect a split, and think Kubiak trusts his starting QB over his backup RBs when it comes to winning games, somewhat limiting the upside here.If Foster ends up out for the year or something, that's a different discussion. But just week one? I really think most folks have someone on their rosters better than what these guys offer already.

 

[shnikies]

Frankly, I think the real answer is "neither." If Foster just misses a week or two, Schaub will throw 40+ times and each of these guys will carry 8-12 times. As either a Foster owner or an opportunistic manager, I'd be looking to my bench and the third or fourth RB I drafted over Ward or Tate.

Yep, totally agree. It's the start of the season and if you don't feel good about your WR3/4 or RB3/4 as a plug and play flex to stand in for Foster in week #1, then you didn't draft a very good team. And if you have Tate/Ward and don't have Foster, it makes even less sense to start either over your RB3 you drafted.

If Foster doesn't play week 1 and Kubiak announces either Ward or Tate as the starter, you start that player against the Colts who gave up the 8th most amount of fantasy points to running backs last year. There aren't many running backs in the NFL who wouldn't be successful behind that line and I mean no disrespect to Foster by saying that.

Don't think this works if Ward is named the starter. You really think Tate won't see any action after how he looked in preseason? If it's Tate, well, he's already on someone else's team if you've drafted by now. If you haven't drafted when the announcement comes, by all means make Ben Tate your 11th rounder, I guess. The Texas ran just under 25 times/game last year, and I'm just not excited about guesswork unless we see some really clear evidence. Brandon Jackson was a backup-made-starter last year, and we all saw how much of a lead back he wasn't. I still expect a split, and think Kubiak trusts his starting QB over his backup RBs when it comes to winning games, somewhat limiting the upside here.If Foster ends up out for the year or something, that's a different discussion. But just week one? I really think most folks have someone on their rosters better than what these guys offer already.

The Colts have Freeney and Mathis. Who do you think the Texnas want in for pass pro? Brandon Jackson wasn't running behind the best line in football. I don't think you made very good points there but I guess we each have our own opinions.

 

[zoonation]

If Foster doesn't go Ward is an easy start in a flex position week 1 against the Colts. Tate could be too, but is more risky IMO.

 

[footballnerd]

Who is more likely to get the carries if HOU jumps out to a big lead? Starting to think with Manning out, we may see a heavy does of Tate even if Foster plays.

 

[Bri]

I think it is a little of both - hamstring injuries/recoveries can be more time intensive than initial indications would lead one to believe - so they are preserving their likely week 1 starting tandem IF Foster can't bounce back from this injury. I think that they are erring on the side of caution, but that they are erring on the side of caution because hamstrings can be so touchy to rehab...

Bounce back is the key phrase IMO.Mark you and I have played FF for a million years. These considerable hammy injuries (and not just tweaks) are real headaches for FF. There's starting but only getting 25 yards before it bothers him and...ooooh I am so not a fan of Foster in FF this year.Week 1 possibilities, to me, mean trade him while you can.