Tavon Austin - Upside (2 Viewers)

[kutta]

Bob, what I was touching on is that you're taking broad, generalized theorycraft that could literally be applied to any team on any year. Every team drafts rookies every year that should theoretically improve the team, and every team has young players that get another year under their belt and should theoretically get better. Obviously, every team doesn't get better every year and STL's aren't really any kind of standout group on this front.

Next, you're taking those generalized arguments and bending them in a way such that no matter which way they go they aid Austin. If STL's defense plays well it's good for Austin because it means the offense will be on the field more. if STL's defense plays poorly it's good for Austin because it means more shootouts. It's like the old discussion about whether a WR is better off being the clear #1 on his team or having another good WR opposite him. If the people like the WR and he's by himself they'll argue that being by himself will get him more targets. If he has another good WR alongside him they'll argue that it means he'll see weaker coverage. Likewise the people that don't like the WR will argue that being by himself means he'll see more coverage, or sharing with another WR means he'll see fewer targets. There's no statistics pointing in either direction, people just bend and twist the logic of the argument to suit a player they've already decided on.

It's no different here. If STL's bevy of other young WRs improve you just think it means the defense can't focus on Austin as much. If they don't then hey, more passes for Austin! If the defense plays poorly then shootouts mean more scoring opportunities. If they play well then more time out there on the field. You're taking every hypothetical best case scenario for StL, then backing yourself up with that scenario not working out still being a plus as well. Then you're taking every hypothetical best case scenario (in terms of how it helps Austin) for the teams around StL and applying those as well. Really, most of this stuff isn't going to happen and if it does it's unlikely to have the effect you're extrapolating out of it.

To be clear, I'm not down on Austin. I don't fiddle with PPR so he has less value to me than those but do, but I think he could easily be a good player. That doesn't mean that I agreed with the points being made in this case, however.

- 2012 meetings

week 4 against SEA W 19-13

week 10 against SF T 24-24 (OT)

week 13 against SF W 16-13 (OT)

week 17 against SE L 13-20

competitive would have been better characterization... i don't think they got to the point in any of these contests where they could comfortably preserve a large lead by keeping it on the ground for long stretches...

Errr...talk about moving the goalposts. Don't worry, you don't have to convince anyone that there isn't some big concern about StL taking 30 point leads into half time against SF/Sea and just milking the clock in the 2nd half, so let's not pretend that's really what you were trying to say.

so, just to clarify YOUR position, do you think the defense has improved in fisher era relative to previous year?

this basic, fundamental point seems so obvious that to challenge it makes the rest of the exchange seem like merely a rhetorical exercise...

if the defense is better, could that help the offense...

i understand you aren't down on austin... can you be more specific on how you see him doing as a rookie?

if not 65 catches... in the 50s - 40s - 30s?

would you agree that maybe palmer situation was a little more complicated than just that he played his way out of a job?

I like my PPR WR"s on teams with crummy defenses.

 

[ShaHBucks]

What happens if he's just Dexter McCluster and not Sproles/Harvin?Anyone worried about his wonderlic score ad the possibility he can't pick up a nfl offense? He sounds a little "slow" in all of his draft interviews. I was not surprised he scored that low after hearing him talk.

Then Austin's a bust, simple as that. It's a possible outcome sure, but given Austin's 4.34 40 time compared to McCluster's 4.58 40 time, I think we can expect a good deal more dynamic plays from Austin than what we've seen from McCluster in the NFL. In regard to Austin's intelligence, I certainly haven't noticed any correlation between intelligence and WR performance going back to the beginning of the NFL, and I see no reason to expect that to change anytime soon either. So no, I wouldn't be worried about his wonderlic score in the least, nor would I be worried about the wonderlic score of any WR, or just about any position really.

I meant McClusters body type and how everyone was excited about his supposed role as a rb/wr/krRemember Ochocinco in New England??

 

[cstu]

What happens if he's just Dexter McCluster and not Sproles/Harvin?Anyone worried about his wonderlic score ad the possibility he can't pick up a nfl offense? He sounds a little "slow" in all of his draft interviews. I was not surprised he scored that low after hearing him talk.

Then Austin's a bust, simple as that. It's a possible outcome sure, but given Austin's 4.34 40 time compared to McCluster's 4.58 40 time, I think we can expect a good deal more dynamic plays from Austin than what we've seen from McCluster in the NFL. In regard to Austin's intelligence, I certainly haven't noticed any correlation between intelligence and WR performance going back to the beginning of the NFL, and I see no reason to expect that to change anytime soon either. So no, I wouldn't be worried about his wonderlic score in the least, nor would I be worried about the wonderlic score of any WR, or just about any position really.

I meant McClusters body type and how everyone was excited about his supposed role as a rb/wr/krRemember Ochocinco in New England??

I think just a cursory glance at Austin's play on the field will show you he's not McCluster. I'm fine with arguments about his durability but his elite talent shouldn't be questioned.

 

[TheFanatic]

Bob, what I was touching on is that you're taking broad, generalized theorycraft that could literally be applied to any team on any year. Every team drafts rookies every year that should theoretically improve the team, and every team has young players that get another year under their belt and should theoretically get better. Obviously, every team doesn't get better every year and STL's aren't really any kind of standout group on this front.

So teams may or may not get better with offseason additions. Good to know.

Oh, it's basically just perception as to whether or not one feels one team will get better than another?

Time to shut this board down. There's no use discussing anything anymore here. It's all just conjecture and hypotheticals...

 

[ShaHBucks]

What happens if he's just Dexter McCluster and not Sproles/Harvin?Anyone worried about his wonderlic score ad the possibility he can't pick up a nfl offense? He sounds a little "slow" in all of his draft interviews. I was not surprised he scored that low after hearing him talk.

Then Austin's a bust, simple as that. It's a possible outcome sure, but given Austin's 4.34 40 time compared to McCluster's 4.58 40 time, I think we can expect a good deal more dynamic plays from Austin than what we've seen from McCluster in the NFL. In regard to Austin's intelligence, I certainly haven't noticed any correlation between intelligence and WR performance going back to the beginning of the NFL, and I see no reason to expect that to change anytime soon either. So no, I wouldn't be worried about his wonderlic score in the least, nor would I be worried about the wonderlic score of any WR, or just about any position really.

I meant McClusters body type and how everyone was excited about his supposed role as a rb/wr/krRemember Ochocinco in New England??

I think just a cursory glance at Austin's play on the field will show you he's not McCluster. I'm fine with arguments about his durability but his elite talent shouldn't be questioned.

Why shouldn't he be questioned?He was in a elite circumstance with his QB, who was supposed to be the best in class, throwing 518 times on the season. I can name a handful of small receivers who would have done the same, if not better, and they will have less flags about their body. What would DeAndre Hopkins had done working uptempo with Geno? What about Quinton Patton, Josh Boyce, or Markus Wheaton? What about his teammate Bailey? Nobody is having a orgasm over those guys. I would draft Austin just to flip him to the guys who think he's Percy Harvin 2.0. I'd say he's a faster McCluster or Desean Jackson. McCluster was considered "fast in pads," whatever that means. The media is driving his value out the window. I'd take that to my advantage. Had a guy not trade me 1.03+ later picks for Garcon in a rookie draft because Austin could be available. That's ridiculous.

 

[TheFanatic]

What happens if he's just Dexter McCluster and not Sproles/Harvin?Anyone worried about his wonderlic score ad the possibility he can't pick up a nfl offense? He sounds a little "slow" in all of his draft interviews. I was not surprised he scored that low after hearing him talk.

Then Austin's a bust, simple as that. It's a possible outcome sure, but given Austin's 4.34 40 time compared to McCluster's 4.58 40 time, I think we can expect a good deal more dynamic plays from Austin than what we've seen from McCluster in the NFL. In regard to Austin's intelligence, I certainly haven't noticed any correlation between intelligence and WR performance going back to the beginning of the NFL, and I see no reason to expect that to change anytime soon either. So no, I wouldn't be worried about his wonderlic score in the least, nor would I be worried about the wonderlic score of any WR, or just about any position really.

I meant McClusters body type and how everyone was excited about his supposed role as a rb/wr/krRemember Ochocinco in New England??

I think just a cursory glance at Austin's play on the field will show you he's not McCluster. I'm fine with arguments about his durability but his elite talent shouldn't be questioned.

Why shouldn't he be questioned?He was in a elite circumstance with his QB, who was supposed to be the best in class, throwing 518 times on the season. I can name a handful of small receivers who would have done the same, if not better, and they will have less flags about their body. What would DeAndre Hopkins had done working uptempo with Geno? What about Quinton Patton, Josh Boyce, or Markus Wheaton? What about his teammate Bailey? Nobody is having a orgasm over those guys.I would draft Austin just to flip him to the guys who think he's Percy Harvin 2.0. I'd say he's a faster McCluster or Desean Jackson. McCluster was considered "fast in pads," whatever that means. The media is driving his value out the window. I'd take that to my advantage. Had a guy not trade me 1.03+ later picks for Garcon in a rookie draft because Austin could be available. That's ridiculous.

You assume that Geno made Tavon. What if it was the opposite?

Geno through WAAYYY too many dump passes and passes in the backfield.

With the only WR that Bradford that has had that has been by any means consistent was Amendola and the five yard dump. Seems to me a great fit for Austin and a chance to excel on the big stage...

 

[ShaHBucks]

What happens if he's just Dexter McCluster and not Sproles/Harvin?Anyone worried about his wonderlic score ad the possibility he can't pick up a nfl offense? He sounds a little "slow" in all of his draft interviews. I was not surprised he scored that low after hearing him talk.

Then Austin's a bust, simple as that. It's a possible outcome sure, but given Austin's 4.34 40 time compared to McCluster's 4.58 40 time, I think we can expect a good deal more dynamic plays from Austin than what we've seen from McCluster in the NFL. In regard to Austin's intelligence, I certainly haven't noticed any correlation between intelligence and WR performance going back to the beginning of the NFL, and I see no reason to expect that to change anytime soon either. So no, I wouldn't be worried about his wonderlic score in the least, nor would I be worried about the wonderlic score of any WR, or just about any position really.

I meant McClusters body type and how everyone was excited about his supposed role as a rb/wr/krRemember Ochocinco in New England??

I think just a cursory glance at Austin's play on the field will show you he's not McCluster. I'm fine with arguments about his durability but his elite talent shouldn't be questioned.

Why shouldn't he be questioned?He was in a elite circumstance with his QB, who was supposed to be the best in class, throwing 518 times on the season. I can name a handful of small receivers who would have done the same, if not better, and they will have less flags about their body. What would DeAndre Hopkins had done working uptempo with Geno? What about Quinton Patton, Josh Boyce, or Markus Wheaton? What about his teammate Bailey? Nobody is having a orgasm over those guys.I would draft Austin just to flip him to the guys who think he's Percy Harvin 2.0. I'd say he's a faster McCluster or Desean Jackson. McCluster was considered "fast in pads," whatever that means. The media is driving his value out the window. I'd take that to my advantage. Had a guy not trade me 1.03+ later picks for Garcon in a rookie draft because Austin could be available. That's ridiculous.

You assume that Geno made Tavon. What if it was the opposite? Geno through WAAYYY too many dump passes and passes in the backfield. With the only WR that Bradford that has had that has been by any means consistent was Amendola and the five yard dump. Seems to me a great fit for Austin and a chance to excel on the big stage...

I'm not assuming anything with Geno. I'm saying it was a uptempo offense with a capable QB. Greg Salas, D. Bess, Pilares all did the same at Hawaii in a similar style offence. I am assuming a number of WR's could have stepped in his place and did the same thing.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

What happens if he's just Dexter McCluster and not Sproles/Harvin?Anyone worried about his wonderlic score ad the possibility he can't pick up a nfl offense? He sounds a little "slow" in all of his draft interviews. I was not surprised he scored that low after hearing him talk.

Then Austin's a bust, simple as that. It's a possible outcome sure, but given Austin's 4.34 40 time compared to McCluster's 4.58 40 time, I think we can expect a good deal more dynamic plays from Austin than what we've seen from McCluster in the NFL. In regard to Austin's intelligence, I certainly haven't noticed any correlation between intelligence and WR performance going back to the beginning of the NFL, and I see no reason to expect that to change anytime soon either. So no, I wouldn't be worried about his wonderlic score in the least, nor would I be worried about the wonderlic score of any WR, or just about any position really.

I meant McClusters body type and how everyone was excited about his supposed role as a rb/wr/krRemember Ochocinco in New England??

I think just a cursory glance at Austin's play on the field will show you he's not McCluster. I'm fine with arguments about his durability but his elite talent shouldn't be questioned.

Why shouldn't he be questioned?He was in a elite circumstance with his QB, who was supposed to be the best in class, throwing 518 times on the season. I can name a handful of small receivers who would have done the same, if not better, and they will have less flags about their body. What would DeAndre Hopkins had done working uptempo with Geno? What about Quinton Patton, Josh Boyce, or Markus Wheaton? What about his teammate Bailey? Nobody is having a orgasm over those guys.I would draft Austin just to flip him to the guys who think he's Percy Harvin 2.0. I'd say he's a faster McCluster or Desean Jackson. McCluster was considered "fast in pads," whatever that means. The media is driving his value out the window. I'd take that to my advantage. Had a guy not trade me 1.03+ later picks for Garcon in a rookie draft because Austin could be available. That's ridiculous.

You assume that Geno made Tavon. What if it was the opposite? Geno through WAAYYY too many dump passes and passes in the backfield. With the only WR that Bradford that has had that has been by any means consistent was Amendola and the five yard dump. Seems to me a great fit for Austin and a chance to excel on the big stage...

I'm not assuming anything with Geno. I'm saying it was a uptempo offense with a capable QB. Greg Salas, D. Bess, Pilares all did the same at Hawaii in a similar style offence. I am assuming a number of WR's could have stepped in his place and did the same thing.

Have you seen him play, because it doesn't sound like you have.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

What happens if he's just Dexter McCluster and not Sproles/Harvin?Anyone worried about his wonderlic score ad the possibility he can't pick up a nfl offense? He sounds a little "slow" in all of his draft interviews. I was not surprised he scored that low after hearing him talk.

Then Austin's a bust, simple as that. It's a possible outcome sure, but given Austin's 4.34 40 time compared to McCluster's 4.58 40 time, I think we can expect a good deal more dynamic plays from Austin than what we've seen from McCluster in the NFL. In regard to Austin's intelligence, I certainly haven't noticed any correlation between intelligence and WR performance going back to the beginning of the NFL, and I see no reason to expect that to change anytime soon either. So no, I wouldn't be worried about his wonderlic score in the least, nor would I be worried about the wonderlic score of any WR, or just about any position really.

I meant McClusters body type and how everyone was excited about his supposed role as a rb/wr/krRemember Ochocinco in New England??

I think just a cursory glance at Austin's play on the field will show you he's not McCluster. I'm fine with arguments about his durability but his elite talent shouldn't be questioned.

Why shouldn't he be questioned?He was in a elite circumstance with his QB, who was supposed to be the best in class, throwing 518 times on the season. I can name a handful of small receivers who would have done the same, if not better, and they will have less flags about their body. What would DeAndre Hopkins had done working uptempo with Geno? What about Quinton Patton, Josh Boyce, or Markus Wheaton? What about his teammate Bailey? Nobody is having a orgasm over those guys.I would draft Austin just to flip him to the guys who think he's Percy Harvin 2.0. I'd say he's a faster McCluster or Desean Jackson. McCluster was considered "fast in pads," whatever that means. The media is driving his value out the window. I'd take that to my advantage. Had a guy not trade me 1.03+ later picks for Garcon in a rookie draft because Austin could be available. That's ridiculous.

You assume that Geno made Tavon. What if it was the opposite? Geno through WAAYYY too many dump passes and passes in the backfield. With the only WR that Bradford that has had that has been by any means consistent was Amendola and the five yard dump. Seems to me a great fit for Austin and a chance to excel on the big stage...

I'm not assuming anything with Geno. I'm saying it was a uptempo offense with a capable QB. Greg Salas, D. Bess, Pilares all did the same at Hawaii in a similar style offence. I am assuming a number of WR's could have stepped in his place and did the same thing.

Have you seen him play, because it doesn't sound like you have.

He's notorious for scouting with numbers and measurables rather than his eyes. Which has its uses, but not if you follow the numbers blindly.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Just a general comment. Tons of BMI comparisons in here that almost seem to imply that ratios are all that matter in a "size" discussion. The simple fact is, BMI aside, he's a small dude. You can create the BMIically perfect player, but if he's 4' tall and 100 lbs (or whatever the perfect weight is for that height), when he gets hit by a 260 lb LBer at full speed, something different is going to happen to the guy than if he were 200 lbs.

BMI has it's uses, but absolute weight and height matter too. I would be very leery to invest heavily in Austin as a fantasy player. As a guy down the list a little bit, Id be really happy to grab him and hope he bucks some trends. He's exciting enough to watch, that's for sure. But he is now generally considered to be one of the very top guys off the board, and that would worry me if I had any really early picks.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Vegas is more optimistic when it comes to Rams rookie wide receiver Tavon Austin and the impact he will have as a rookie. According to Bovada.lv, the over-under on Austin’s receiving yards in 2013 is 800 — a pretty big number for a rookie. The over-under on Austin’s receiving touchdowns is 4½.

yeah I am not seeing the 80 catches with 10 tds next year

Who said 10 TDs?

The number put above as part of the range by Bob Magaw was 65 receptions and 6 TDs (total). He was told he was insane. Is Vegas insane too?

sigmund bloom upthread

I was simply comparing his usage/output to Sproles - who has been an 8-10 TD a year player. 6 sounds more reasonable for this year.

 

[ShaHBucks]

What happens if he's just Dexter McCluster and not Sproles/Harvin?Anyone worried about his wonderlic score ad the possibility he can't pick up a nfl offense? He sounds a little "slow" in all of his draft interviews. I was not surprised he scored that low after hearing him talk.

Then Austin's a bust, simple as that. It's a possible outcome sure, but given Austin's 4.34 40 time compared to McCluster's 4.58 40 time, I think we can expect a good deal more dynamic plays from Austin than what we've seen from McCluster in the NFL. In regard to Austin's intelligence, I certainly haven't noticed any correlation between intelligence and WR performance going back to the beginning of the NFL, and I see no reason to expect that to change anytime soon either. So no, I wouldn't be worried about his wonderlic score in the least, nor would I be worried about the wonderlic score of any WR, or just about any position really.

I meant McClusters body type and how everyone was excited about his supposed role as a rb/wr/krRemember Ochocinco in New England??

I think just a cursory glance at Austin's play on the field will show you he's not McCluster. I'm fine with arguments about his durability but his elite talent shouldn't be questioned.

Why shouldn't he be questioned?He was in a elite circumstance with his QB, who was supposed to be the best in class, throwing 518 times on the season. I can name a handful of small receivers who would have done the same, if not better, and they will have less flags about their body. What would DeAndre Hopkins had done working uptempo with Geno? What about Quinton Patton, Josh Boyce, or Markus Wheaton? What about his teammate Bailey? Nobody is having a orgasm over those guys.I would draft Austin just to flip him to the guys who think he's Percy Harvin 2.0. I'd say he's a faster McCluster or Desean Jackson. McCluster was considered "fast in pads," whatever that means. The media is driving his value out the window. I'd take that to my advantage. Had a guy not trade me 1.03+ later picks for Garcon in a rookie draft because Austin could be available. That's ridiculous.

You assume that Geno made Tavon. What if it was the opposite? Geno through WAAYYY too many dump passes and passes in the backfield. With the only WR that Bradford that has had that has been by any means consistent was Amendola and the five yard dump. Seems to me a great fit for Austin and a chance to excel on the big stage...

I'm not assuming anything with Geno. I'm saying it was a uptempo offense with a capable QB. Greg Salas, D. Bess, Pilares all did the same at Hawaii in a similar style offence. I am assuming a number of WR's could have stepped in his place and did the same thing.

Have you seen him play, because it doesn't sound like you have.

He's notorious for scouting with numbers and measurables rather than his eyes. Which has its uses, but not if you follow the numbers blindly.

But you can go into great detail about BMI ok.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Its one thing to look at, and I looked at it, and liked it in context. But I'm not basing my entire rankings system around it. Its all about context.

 

[TheFanatic]

What happens if he's just Dexter McCluster and not Sproles/Harvin?Anyone worried about his wonderlic score ad the possibility he can't pick up a nfl offense? He sounds a little "slow" in all of his draft interviews. I was not surprised he scored that low after hearing him talk.

Then Austin's a bust, simple as that. It's a possible outcome sure, but given Austin's 4.34 40 time compared to McCluster's 4.58 40 time, I think we can expect a good deal more dynamic plays from Austin than what we've seen from McCluster in the NFL. In regard to Austin's intelligence, I certainly haven't noticed any correlation between intelligence and WR performance going back to the beginning of the NFL, and I see no reason to expect that to change anytime soon either. So no, I wouldn't be worried about his wonderlic score in the least, nor would I be worried about the wonderlic score of any WR, or just about any position really.

I meant McClusters body type and how everyone was excited about his supposed role as a rb/wr/krRemember Ochocinco in New England??

I think just a cursory glance at Austin's play on the field will show you he's not McCluster. I'm fine with arguments about his durability but his elite talent shouldn't be questioned.

Why shouldn't he be questioned?He was in a elite circumstance with his QB, who was supposed to be the best in class, throwing 518 times on the season. I can name a handful of small receivers who would have done the same, if not better, and they will have less flags about their body. What would DeAndre Hopkins had done working uptempo with Geno? What about Quinton Patton, Josh Boyce, or Markus Wheaton? What about his teammate Bailey? Nobody is having a orgasm over those guys.I would draft Austin just to flip him to the guys who think he's Percy Harvin 2.0. I'd say he's a faster McCluster or Desean Jackson. McCluster was considered "fast in pads," whatever that means. The media is driving his value out the window. I'd take that to my advantage. Had a guy not trade me 1.03+ later picks for Garcon in a rookie draft because Austin could be available. That's ridiculous.

You assume that Geno made Tavon. What if it was the opposite? Geno through WAAYYY too many dump passes and passes in the backfield. With the only WR that Bradford that has had that has been by any means consistent was Amendola and the five yard dump. Seems to me a great fit for Austin and a chance to excel on the big stage...

I'm not assuming anything with Geno. I'm saying it was a uptempo offense with a capable QB. Greg Salas, D. Bess, Pilares all did the same at Hawaii in a similar style offence. I am assuming a number of WR's could have stepped in his place and did the same thing.

Have you seen him play, because it doesn't sound like you have.

Agreed. Check that link that Gian put up. Count how many times the guy got "hit" or tackled. It looked like on 95% of plays he wasn't touched. That isn;t shown on the stat sheet or in his BMI.

The question is how he adapts that to a faster game.

 

[jurb26]

Austin feels a lot like Peter Warrick to me. Not sure why just yet but I think he will underperform the expectations many have.

Right now my largest fear with him is the lack of a true WR1 in St. L. Austin looks like a guy who will really need that WR1 presence on the field to allow him to exploit mismatches vs. S and LB out of the slot or motion.

There is no doubt St. L will try and create plays to get the ball in Austin's hands. He's too explosive not too. I wonder how quickly NFL Ds will react to his speed though.

 

[JustinHawkins]

Bailey is the sneaky value play here.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Austin feels a lot like Peter Warrick to me. Not sure why just yet but I think he will underperform the expectations many have.Right now my largest fear with him is the lack of a true WR1 in St. L. Austin looks like a guy who will really need that WR1 presence on the field to allow him to exploit mismatches vs. S and LB out of the slot or motion.There is no doubt St. L will try and create plays to get the ball in Austin's hands. He's too explosive not too. I wonder how quickly NFL Ds will react to his speed though.

A lot of people believe that Peter Warrick would have been a lot more successful in today's NFL.

 

[TheFanatic]

Austin feels a lot like Peter Warrick to me. Not sure why just yet but I think he will underperform the expectations many have.Right now my largest fear with him is the lack of a true WR1 in St. L. Austin looks like a guy who will really need that WR1 presence on the field to allow him to exploit mismatches vs. S and LB out of the slot or motion.There is no doubt St. L will try and create plays to get the ball in Austin's hands. He's too explosive not too. I wonder how quickly NFL Ds will react to his speed though.

A lot of people believe that Peter Warrick would have been a lot more successful in today's NFL.

They do?

 

[jurb26]

Austin feels a lot like Peter Warrick to me. Not sure why just yet but I think he will underperform the expectations many have.Right now my largest fear with him is the lack of a true WR1 in St. L. Austin looks like a guy who will really need that WR1 presence on the field to allow him to exploit mismatches vs. S and LB out of the slot or motion.There is no doubt St. L will try and create plays to get the ball in Austin's hands. He's too explosive not too. I wonder how quickly NFL Ds will react to his speed though.

A lot of people believe that Peter Warrick would have been a lot more successful in today's NFL.

I'm not sure what these people would deem "a lot more successful" but to me it's no coincidence that Warrack's best 2 seasons as a pro came during the emergence of Chad Johnson, a true WR1 on the other side. FWIW, Warrick's best season was 79/819/7. That was in his last year on Cinci and the same year Chad Johnson went for 90/1355/10. This seems to reinforce my original fear that a Warrick type player needs a WR1 to weaken the other teams D if they are to produce at the level suggested by many in this thread. I do not see that player on St. L. This does not mean he can not emerge. It also does not mean Austin can't still produce very nice numbers. As you pointed out, the game has changed in 10 years. I'm not sure it's changed that much though.It's also worth noting that Warrick was out of the NFL after only 6 seasons. A lot more successful may not mean a whole lot on light of that.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Austin feels a lot like Peter Warrick to me. Not sure why just yet but I think he will underperform the expectations many have.Right now my largest fear with him is the lack of a true WR1 in St. L. Austin looks like a guy who will really need that WR1 presence on the field to allow him to exploit mismatches vs. S and LB out of the slot or motion.There is no doubt St. L will try and create plays to get the ball in Austin's hands. He's too explosive not too. I wonder how quickly NFL Ds will react to his speed though.

A lot of people believe that Peter Warrick would have been a lot more successful in today's NFL.

They do?

I'm not going to find links for you, but I've seen the comparison a few times on a few different message boards, and that's almost always the response that I've seen. A player like Warrick could excel in today's game.

 

[EBF]

Part of the reason why Warrick busted is because he wasn't particularly fast. He only ran a 4.6, which is a disappointing time for a 5'11" WR.

I have my doubts about Austin, but at least he can fly.

 

[ShaHBucks]

http://rotoviz.com/index.php/2013/03/is-tavon-austin-comparable-to-dexter-mccluster/

swear I just found this a few minutes ago. McCluster with long speed is exactly who Austin reminds me of.

His closest comp is Dexter McCluster. Scouts have gone to great lengths to distance themselves from their own historical comments on McCluster and to shoot down comparisons between McCluster and Austin. This is necessarily revisionist. McCluster has been a bust – perhaps due to terrible coaching and incorrect usage – but that doesn’t diminish his utterly electric collegiate play. The only real difference between the two players is long speed. Take a look at the two guys side by side.


Height Weight SS Forty Bench Vertical YPC
Dexter McCluster 69 172 4.06 4.53 20 37.5 13.1
Tavon Austin 69 174 4.01 4.34 14 32 11.9

McCluster and Austin are identical sizes. Austin possesses far more long speed, but their short area quickness is the same. (Any short shuttle under 4.1 is joystick quality.) Scouts have looked at Austin’s 344-yard, 2-TD rushing game against Oklahoma and suggested his lateral agility is superior, but that doesn’t hold up at all if you go back and watch McCluster’s 282-yard, 4-TD performance against Tennessee. As a result of such tape study, McCluster exploded up draft boards prior to the 2011 draft. Many respected scouts were suggesting he’d be a multi-threat weapon at the NFL level despite his size. We’re now hearing the same thing about Austin.

There are areas where McCluster is clearly the superior athlete, and he actually averaged over a yard more per reception in college. Since he caught 130 balls, that’s not a particularly small sample.

In the final analysis, I think McCluster, Ginn, and Randall Cobb are three closest comparisons to Austin. While McCluster and Ginn are somewhat unappealing, I don’t think this should be taken as a sign that Austin won’t be a good pro. (An advocate might even suggest he combines the best attributes of all three guys.) It just makes him a gigantic risk if he’s picked in the area of the draft where teams should be attempting to acquire future No. 1 wide receivers.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

McCluster with elite speed, better after-the-catch moves and elusiveness and route-running ability, and a team who made a huge investment in him may have been a star. But then, that would also make him a different player entirely in a lot of ways.

This is why player comps are by definition lazy. Two players can have the exact same measurables and have totally different games. That's what I have been saying all along about relying too much on numbers.

 

[ShaHBucks]

McCluster with elite speed, better after-the-catch moves and elusiveness and route-running ability, and a team who made a huge investment in him may have been a star. But then, that would also make him a different player entirely in a lot of ways.

This is why player comps are by definition lazy. Two players can have the exact same measurables and have totally different games. That's what I have been saying all along about relying too much on numbers.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=530582&hl=%2Bdexter+%2Bmccluster

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=652882&hl=%2Bdexter+%2Bmccluster

36th pick isn't too shabby.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

McCluster with elite speed, better after-the-catch moves and elusiveness and route-running ability, and a team who made a huge investment in him may have been a star. But then, that would also make him a different player entirely in a lot of ways.

This is why player comps are by definition lazy. Two players can have the exact same measurables and have totally different games. That's what I have been saying all along about relying too much on numbers.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=530582&hl=+dexter++mcclusterhttp://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=652882&hl=+dexter++mccluster

36th pick isn't too shabby.

Nope, not at all. But its also not trading up to 8th overall levels of investment, either.

 

[gianmarco]

People are acting like the difference between 4.53 and 4.34 isn't a big deal.

Uhh, it's huge. The short range quickness and agility is nice, but 4.34 is elite. 4.53, especially at that size, is below average at best.

 

[gianmarco]

Here's the video of McCluster's big game in college vs. Tenn:

McCluster

Nothing pops out in that video. You see him in HUGE open spaces, but he doesn't do much in terms of creating things for himself or making multiple defenders miss. In fact, unless he got to the outside and was able to speed around defenders, there's not much that's impressive about that game at all.

Now, here's Austin vs. Oklahoma:

The difference between that 4.53 and 4.34 is pretty evident to me. In addition, the elusiveness is far more apparent by Austin.

McCluster is a solid player and I'm not trying to take anything away from him. But he's simply not at the same level as Austin, IMO.

 

[ShaHBucks]

McCluster with elite speed, better after-the-catch moves and elusiveness and route-running ability, and a team who made a huge investment in him may have been a star. But then, that would also make him a different player entirely in a lot of ways.This is why player comps are by definition lazy. Two players can have the exact same measurables and have totally different games. That's what I have been saying all along about relying too much on numbers.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=530582&hl=+dexter++mccluster http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=652882&hl=+dexter++mccluster 36th pick isn't too shabby.

Nope, not at all. But its also not trading up to 8th overall levels of investment, either.

I pay for yards and even more for TD's, not making guys miss. STL vastly overpaid giving how deep this WR class was. That doesn't impress me at all.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Exactly. Looking solely at numbers can make you see a lot of things that aren't there...Austin and McCluster have a lot of nearly identical measurables, other than a huge difference in speed. That doesn't make them anything alike as players.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

ShaHBucks, on 06 May 2013 - 19:15, said:

ConnSKINS26, on 06 May 2013 - 18:52, said:

ShaHBucks, on 06 May 2013 - 18:50, said:

ConnSKINS26, on 06 May 2013 - 18:31, said:

McCluster with elite speed, better after-the-catch moves and elusiveness and route-running ability, and a team who made a huge investment in him may have been a star. But then, that would also make him a different player entirely in a lot of ways.This is why player comps are by definition lazy. Two players can have the exact same measurables and have totally different games. That's what I have been saying all along about relying too much on numbers.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=530582&hl=+dexter++mccluster http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=652882&hl=+dexter++mccluster 36th pick isn't too shabby.

Nope, not at all. But its also not trading up to 8th overall levels of investment, either.

I pay for yards and even more for TD's, not making guys miss. STL vastly overpaid giving how deep this WR class was. That doesn't impress me at all.

This is nonsensical. Just thought I'd point that out. Making guys miss results in yards and TD's.

 

[jurb26]

Here's the video of McCluster's big game in college vs. Tenn:

McCluster

Nothing pops out in that video. You see him in HUGE open spaces, but he doesn't do much in terms of creating things for himself or making multiple defenders miss. In fact, unless he got to the outside and was able to speed around defenders, there's not much that's impressive about that game at all.

Now, here's Austin vs. Oklahoma:

These videos are not helping your point IMO. I've never been a McCluster fan but that video makes him look unreal. He looked like he was easily the fastest player on the field and was playing at a whole different speed than everyone else. BTW, that Tenn D included Eric Berry. McCluster out ran several angles and just made the D look stupid most of the time.If anything, it just proves that 40 times are to be taken with a huge grain of salt. McCluster looks way faster than 4.5 in that game. I'm not sure how you can see it otherwise to be honest.

 

[gianmarco]

Can't say I agree, obviously, but if that's what you see, then that may temper any expectations for Austin.

I do find the following interesting re: McCluster in the NFL.

In 2011, when Charles went down, he was actually used pretty significantly in the run game with 114 carries for 516 yards (4.5 ypc). He also added 46 receptions but for only 328 yards and he scored only 2 TDs all year. He also only had 2 receiving plays all that year over 20 yards and only 5 plays for over 10 yards (on 46 receptions). That's pretty bad in terms of big play ability and explosiveness. He actually had bigger plays during his use in the run game.

What's the point? Well, he seemed to be effective as a runner despite that size in the NFL. It just seems that the Chiefs just didn't want to focus on him having the ball in his hands. If they had, he may have been able to do more. If Austin is merely a souped-up McCluster but is actually given the ball some more and can break off some big plays, you've got a baseline to work off of.

The other positive to take from it if you're a fan of Austin is that McCluster has been in the league for 3 years now and has not missed any time due to injury at his size, and that's being used as a runner for over 100 carries during his 2nd year.

 

[jurb26]

Can't say I agree, obviously, but if that's what you see, then that may temper any expectations for Austin. I do find the following interesting re: McCluster in the NFL. In 2011, when Charles went down, he was actually used pretty significantly in the run game with 114 carries for 516 yards (4.5 ypc). He also added 46 receptions but for only 328 yards and he scored only 2 TDs all year. He also only had 2 receiving plays all that year over 20 yards and only 5 plays for over 10 yards (on 46 receptions). That's pretty bad in terms of big play ability and explosiveness. He actually had bigger plays during his use in the run game. What's the point? Well, he seemed to be effective as a runner despite that size in the NFL. It just seems that the Chiefs just didn't want to focus on him having the ball in his hands. If they had, he may have been able to do more. If Austin is merely a souped-up McCluster but is actually given the ball some more and can break off some big plays, you've got a baseline to work off of. The other positive to take from it if you're a fan of Austin is that McCluster has been in the league for 3 years now and has not missed any time due to injury at his size, and that's being used as a runner for over 100 carries during his 2nd year.

Like I said, I'm not a McCluster fan in the least. I just feel you're selling him short in a lot of ways. Particularly in regards to that video. Austin is a better athlete and a better football player than him. IMO he's better in just about every way. I don't think it's a wide gap in any measure, perhaps speed is though. The times are the times and they suggest Austin is much faster. I just don't think a gap in speed that large translates on the field. Some guys for whatever reason just don't time well on a track. I think McCluster just may be one of those guys. Still, he is not as fast as Austin no matter how you slice it.It is worth mentioning that Austin was allowed to work in space regularly at WVU. How successful he is in fantasy will depend on how well St. L can do the same IMO. Like I said before, I think the lack of a WR1 will complicate that ability for St. L.

 

[kutta]

Can't say I agree, obviously, but if that's what you see, then that may temper any expectations for Austin. I do find the following interesting re: McCluster in the NFL. In 2011, when Charles went down, he was actually used pretty significantly in the run game with 114 carries for 516 yards (4.5 ypc). He also added 46 receptions but for only 328 yards and he scored only 2 TDs all year. He also only had 2 receiving plays all that year over 20 yards and only 5 plays for over 10 yards (on 46 receptions). That's pretty bad in terms of big play ability and explosiveness. He actually had bigger plays during his use in the run game. What's the point? Well, he seemed to be effective as a runner despite that size in the NFL. It just seems that the Chiefs just didn't want to focus on him having the ball in his hands. If they had, he may have been able to do more. If Austin is merely a souped-up McCluster but is actually given the ball some more and can break off some big plays, you've got a baseline to work off of. The other positive to take from it if you're a fan of Austin is that McCluster has been in the league for 3 years now and has not missed any time due to injury at his size, and that's being used as a runner for over 100 carries during his 2nd year.

Like I said, I'm not a McCluster fan in the least. I just feel you're selling him short in a lot of ways. Particularly in regards to that video. Austin is a better athlete and a better football player than him. IMO he's better in just about every way. I don't think it's a wide gap in any measure, perhaps speed is though. The times are the times and they suggest Austin is much faster. I just don't think a gap in speed that large translates on the field. Some guys for whatever reason just don't time well on a track. I think McCluster just may be one of those guys. Still, he is not as fast as Austin no matter how you slice it.It is worth mentioning that Austin was allowed to work in space regularly at WVU. How successful he is in fantasy will depend on how well St. L can do the same IMO. Like I said before, I think the lack of a WR1 will complicate that ability for St. L.

It's really ridiculous to compare these two players and say that speed isn't that important. Remember how bad Manti Te'o's stock was hurt because of his 40 time? His time was 4.82 s, and for a linebacker, that's bad.

But consider this:

The difference between Austin's and McCluster's times (4.34 to 4.58) is 0.24 s.

The difference between McCluster's and Te'o's times (4.58 to 4.82) is 0.24 s.

And Te'o was slow for a Linebacker.

Austin and McCluster are in different worlds speed-wise, and to compare them just doesn't make sense.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Can't say I agree, obviously, but if that's what you see, then that may temper any expectations for Austin. I do find the following interesting re: McCluster in the NFL. In 2011, when Charles went down, he was actually used pretty significantly in the run game with 114 carries for 516 yards (4.5 ypc). He also added 46 receptions but for only 328 yards and he scored only 2 TDs all year. He also only had 2 receiving plays all that year over 20 yards and only 5 plays for over 10 yards (on 46 receptions). That's pretty bad in terms of big play ability and explosiveness. He actually had bigger plays during his use in the run game. What's the point? Well, he seemed to be effective as a runner despite that size in the NFL. It just seems that the Chiefs just didn't want to focus on him having the ball in his hands. If they had, he may have been able to do more. If Austin is merely a souped-up McCluster but is actually given the ball some more and can break off some big plays, you've got a baseline to work off of. The other positive to take from it if you're a fan of Austin is that McCluster has been in the league for 3 years now and has not missed any time due to injury at his size, and that's being used as a runner for over 100 carries during his 2nd year.

Like I said, I'm not a McCluster fan in the least. I just feel you're selling him short in a lot of ways. Particularly in regards to that video. Austin is a better athlete and a better football player than him. IMO he's better in just about every way. I don't think it's a wide gap in any measure, perhaps speed is though. The times are the times and they suggest Austin is much faster. I just don't think a gap in speed that large translates on the field. Some guys for whatever reason just don't time well on a track. I think McCluster just may be one of those guys. Still, he is not as fast as Austin no matter how you slice it.It is worth mentioning that Austin was allowed to work in space regularly at WVU. How successful he is in fantasy will depend on how well St. L can do the same IMO. Like I said before, I think the lack of a WR1 will complicate that ability for St. L.

It's really ridiculous to compare these two players and say that speed isn't that important. Remember how bad Manti Te'o's stock was hurt because of his 40 time? His time was 4.82 s, and for a linebacker, that's bad. But consider this: The difference between Austin's and McCluster's times (4.34 to 4.58) is 0.24 s. The difference between McCluster's and Te'o's times (4.58 to 4.82) is 0.24 s. And Te'o was slow for a Linebacker. Austin and McCluster are in different worlds speed-wise, and to compare them just doesn't make sense.

McCluster reportedly stumbled on his 40 at the combine. I don't trust my eyes but I'd say his pro day was more like his speed. Noway you're that agile and slow at the same time. Austin will be used more than McCluster no doubt. Rams have to justify the pick (How did that turn out for pead btw). That's just where I'd put his floor. As mentioned his best year was about 800 yards. That's not bad, but the most TD's he scored was 2. Eventually you want to feed the ball to TD producers. I said his upside was Desean Jackson and supposedly I've never watched a football game for saying that. They are almost clones athletically. Austin will have his days, followed by disappointments. D-Jax ran a 4.3 before it was even cool. Now everyone is doing it at WR/CB so it's not as impressive in a league that's getting bigger and faster by the year. I used the comparison because Austin will not be some workhorse running back like the OU game. WVU caught OU off guard running Austin 21x. His previous high was 5 carries. After that he did not dominate on the ground again. He was more ok/flop in the bowl game. I'm more on the side of that the OU game was a blimp just like any other good college player can have(ie McCluster).Darren Sproles was carrying his team on the ground as a rb, not some gimmick offense WR. Him and Ell Roberson were two of my favorite players. Sproles is still heavier and stronger. He ended up in a perfect situation with a innovative coach and a once in a lifetime QB. Not a fair comp if my goal is to be right about yesterday in order to project players to the NFL. Sproles showed he could handle a heavy workload physically andon the field. Percy Harvin is out if everyone I've mentioned league so I won't bother. It's a reason weight classes are established in boxing. You're about 20 pounds off.

 

[ShaHBucks]

ShaHBucks, on 06 May 2013 - 19:15, said:

ConnSKINS26, on 06 May 2013 - 18:52, said:

ShaHBucks, on 06 May 2013 - 18:50, said:

ConnSKINS26, on 06 May 2013 - 18:31, said:

McCluster with elite speed, better after-the-catch moves and elusiveness and route-running ability, and a team who made a huge investment in him may have been a star. But then, that would also make him a different player entirely in a lot of ways.This is why player comps are by definition lazy. Two players can have the exact same measurables and have totally different games. That's what I have been saying all along about relying too much on numbers.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=530582&hl=+dexter++mccluster http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=652882&hl=+dexter++mccluster 36th pick isn't too shabby.

Nope, not at all. But its also not trading up to 8th overall levels of investment, either.

I pay for yards and even more for TD's, not making guys miss. STL vastly overpaid giving how deep this WR class was. That doesn't impress me at all.

This is nonsensical. Just thought I'd point that out. Making guys miss results in yards and TD's.

My point is I don't care about style points. Kevin Martin has a horrible shooting form but he makes a lot of 3's and FT's at a great percentage. Dwight Howard has no post moves but he makes half I his shots. I really don't care how you get me fantasy points. All that counts is yards and TD's, not Madden 13 attributes.

 

[jurb26]

Can't say I agree, obviously, but if that's what you see, then that may temper any expectations for Austin. I do find the following interesting re: McCluster in the NFL. In 2011, when Charles went down, he was actually used pretty significantly in the run game with 114 carries for 516 yards (4.5 ypc). He also added 46 receptions but for only 328 yards and he scored only 2 TDs all year. He also only had 2 receiving plays all that year over 20 yards and only 5 plays for over 10 yards (on 46 receptions). That's pretty bad in terms of big play ability and explosiveness. He actually had bigger plays during his use in the run game. What's the point? Well, he seemed to be effective as a runner despite that size in the NFL. It just seems that the Chiefs just didn't want to focus on him having the ball in his hands. If they had, he may have been able to do more. If Austin is merely a souped-up McCluster but is actually given the ball some more and can break off some big plays, you've got a baseline to work off of. The other positive to take from it if you're a fan of Austin is that McCluster has been in the league for 3 years now and has not missed any time due to injury at his size, and that's being used as a runner for over 100 carries during his 2nd year.

Like I said, I'm not a McCluster fan in the least. I just feel you're selling him short in a lot of ways. Particularly in regards to that video. Austin is a better athlete and a better football player than him. IMO he's better in just about every way. I don't think it's a wide gap in any measure, perhaps speed is though. The times are the times and they suggest Austin is much faster. I just don't think a gap in speed that large translates on the field. Some guys for whatever reason just don't time well on a track. I think McCluster just may be one of those guys. Still, he is not as fast as Austin no matter how you slice it.It is worth mentioning that Austin was allowed to work in space regularly at WVU. How successful he is in fantasy will depend on how well St. L can do the same IMO. Like I said before, I think the lack of a WR1 will complicate that ability for St. L.

It's really ridiculous to compare these two players and say that speed isn't that important. Remember how bad Manti Te'o's stock was hurt because of his 40 time? His time was 4.82 s, and for a linebacker, that's bad. But consider this: The difference between Austin's and McCluster's times (4.34 to 4.58) is 0.24 s. The difference between McCluster's and Te'o's times (4.58 to 4.82) is 0.24 s. And Te'o was slow for a Linebacker. Austin and McCluster are in different worlds speed-wise, and to compare them just doesn't make sense.

When did I ever say speed wasn't important? I didn't. Oh and te'o's stock was hurt primarily because he was exposed in the Alabama game. Sure the guys on Sports Center care about his 40 time and its a nice talking point. The reality is that he couldn't beat any of the blocks vs. the Alabama oline and missed multiple tackles in that game. That was the only game all year where interior linemen were able to get to him for the most part, and he got swallowed up. There was also that character issue everyone was talking about for months but perhaps you missed.

 

[JAA]

Can't say I agree, obviously, but if that's what you see, then that may temper any expectations for Austin. I do find the following interesting re: McCluster in the NFL. In 2011, when Charles went down, he was actually used pretty significantly in the run game with 114 carries for 516 yards (4.5 ypc). He also added 46 receptions but for only 328 yards and he scored only 2 TDs all year. He also only had 2 receiving plays all that year over 20 yards and only 5 plays for over 10 yards (on 46 receptions). That's pretty bad in terms of big play ability and explosiveness. He actually had bigger plays during his use in the run game. What's the point? Well, he seemed to be effective as a runner despite that size in the NFL. It just seems that the Chiefs just didn't want to focus on him having the ball in his hands. If they had, he may have been able to do more. If Austin is merely a souped-up McCluster but is actually given the ball some more and can break off some big plays, you've got a baseline to work off of. The other positive to take from it if you're a fan of Austin is that McCluster has been in the league for 3 years now and has not missed any time due to injury at his size, and that's being used as a runner for over 100 carries during his 2nd year.

Like I said, I'm not a McCluster fan in the least. I just feel you're selling him short in a lot of ways. Particularly in regards to that video. Austin is a better athlete and a better football player than him. IMO he's better in just about every way. I don't think it's a wide gap in any measure, perhaps speed is though. The times are the times and they suggest Austin is much faster. I just don't think a gap in speed that large translates on the field. Some guys for whatever reason just don't time well on a track. I think McCluster just may be one of those guys. Still, he is not as fast as Austin no matter how you slice it.It is worth mentioning that Austin was allowed to work in space regularly at WVU. How successful he is in fantasy will depend on how well St. L can do the same IMO. Like I said before, I think the lack of a WR1 will complicate that ability for St. L.

It's really ridiculous to compare these two players and say that speed isn't that important. Remember how bad Manti Te'o's stock was hurt because of his 40 time? His time was 4.82 s, and for a linebacker, that's bad. But consider this: The difference between Austin's and McCluster's times (4.34 to 4.58) is 0.24 s. The difference between McCluster's and Te'o's times (4.58 to 4.82) is 0.24 s. And Te'o was slow for a Linebacker. Austin and McCluster are in different worlds speed-wise, and to compare them just doesn't make sense.

McCluster reportedly stumbled on his 40 at the combine. I don't trust my eyes but I'd say his pro day was more like his speed. Noway you're that agile and slow at the same time. Austin will be used more than McCluster no doubt. Rams have to justify the pick (How did that turn out for pead btw). That's just where I'd put his floor. As mentioned his best year was about 800 yards. That's not bad, but the most TD's he scored was 2. Eventually you want to feed the ball to TD producers.I said his upside was Desean Jackson and supposedly I've never watched a football game for saying that. They are almost clones athletically. Austin will have his days, followed by disappointments. D-Jax ran a 4.3 before it was even cool. Now everyone is doing it at WR/CB so it's not as impressive in a league that's getting bigger and faster by the year. I used the comparison because Austin will not be some workhorse running back like the OU game. WVU caught OU off guard running Austin 21x. His previous high was 5 carries. After that he did not dominate on the ground again. He was more ok/flop in the bowl game. I'm more on the side of that the OU game was a blimp just like any other good college player can have(ie McCluster).Darren Sproles was carrying his team on the ground as a rb, not some gimmick offense WR. Him and Ell Roberson were two of my favorite players. Sproles is still heavier and stronger. He ended up in a perfect situation with a innovative coach and a once in a lifetime QB. Not a fair comp if my goal is to be right about yesterday in order to project players to the NFL. Sproles showed he could handle a heavy workload physically andon the field.Percy Harvin is out if everyone I've mentioned league so I won't bother. It's a reason weight classes are established in boxing. You're about 20 pounds off.

This post is possibly filled with the most misinformation on the internet. Well done

 

[kutta]

Can't say I agree, obviously, but if that's what you see, then that may temper any expectations for Austin. I do find the following interesting re: McCluster in the NFL. In 2011, when Charles went down, he was actually used pretty significantly in the run game with 114 carries for 516 yards (4.5 ypc). He also added 46 receptions but for only 328 yards and he scored only 2 TDs all year. He also only had 2 receiving plays all that year over 20 yards and only 5 plays for over 10 yards (on 46 receptions). That's pretty bad in terms of big play ability and explosiveness. He actually had bigger plays during his use in the run game. What's the point? Well, he seemed to be effective as a runner despite that size in the NFL. It just seems that the Chiefs just didn't want to focus on him having the ball in his hands. If they had, he may have been able to do more. If Austin is merely a souped-up McCluster but is actually given the ball some more and can break off some big plays, you've got a baseline to work off of. The other positive to take from it if you're a fan of Austin is that McCluster has been in the league for 3 years now and has not missed any time due to injury at his size, and that's being used as a runner for over 100 carries during his 2nd year.

Like I said, I'm not a McCluster fan in the least. I just feel you're selling him short in a lot of ways. Particularly in regards to that video. Austin is a better athlete and a better football player than him. IMO he's better in just about every way. I don't think it's a wide gap in any measure, perhaps speed is though. The times are the times and they suggest Austin is much faster. I just don't think a gap in speed that large translates on the field. Some guys for whatever reason just don't time well on a track. I think McCluster just may be one of those guys. Still, he is not as fast as Austin no matter how you slice it.It is worth mentioning that Austin was allowed to work in space regularly at WVU. How successful he is in fantasy will depend on how well St. L can do the same IMO. Like I said before, I think the lack of a WR1 will complicate that ability for St. L.

It's really ridiculous to compare these two players and say that speed isn't that important. Remember how bad Manti Te'o's stock was hurt because of his 40 time? His time was 4.82 s, and for a linebacker, that's bad. But consider this: The difference between Austin's and McCluster's times (4.34 to 4.58) is 0.24 s. The difference between McCluster's and Te'o's times (4.58 to 4.82) is 0.24 s. And Te'o was slow for a Linebacker. Austin and McCluster are in different worlds speed-wise, and to compare them just doesn't make sense.

When did I ever say speed wasn't important? I didn't.Oh and te'o's stock was hurt primarily because he was exposed in the Alabama game. Sure the guys on Sports Center care about his 40 time and its a nice talking point. The reality is that he couldn't beat any of the blocks vs. the Alabama oline and missed multiple tackles in that game. That was the only game all year where interior linemen were able to get to him for the most part, and he got swallowed up. There was also that character issue everyone was talking about for months but perhaps you missed.

See bolded above. If I misread your post, my apologies, but it sounds like you are saying that their gap in speed isn't that big of a deal because it "doesn't translate on the field."

And if you don't think Te'o's stock was hurt by his 40 times, maybe we live in different sports worlds.It was hurt by a lot of things, his 40 times being one of them.

 

[cusefan115]

Part of the reason why Warrick busted is because he wasn't particularly fast. He only ran a 4.6, which is a disappointing time for a 5'11" WR.

I have my doubts about Austin, but at least he can fly.

Hey EBF, you seem really down on Austin for a guy you have ranked #1. Are you having second thoughts about his ranking? It just seems really strange to say that you wouldn't invest in your #1 ranked player.

 

[ShaHBucks]

https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/826/tavon-austin-will-be-a-top-20-wr-in-2013

 

[EBF]

Part of the reason why Warrick busted is because he wasn't particularly fast. He only ran a 4.6, which is a disappointing time for a 5'11" WR.

I have my doubts about Austin, but at least he can fly.

Hey EBF, you seem really down on Austin for a guy you have ranked #1. Are you having second thoughts about his ranking? It just seems really strange to say that you wouldn't invest in your #1 ranked player.

He's kind of a de facto #1 because nobody else really deserves the spot. In my rankings I said I would be looking to trade down if I had that pick.

 

[cusefan115]

Part of the reason why Warrick busted is because he wasn't particularly fast. He only ran a 4.6, which is a disappointing time for a 5'11" WR.

I have my doubts about Austin, but at least he can fly.

Hey EBF, you seem really down on Austin for a guy you have ranked #1. Are you having second thoughts about his ranking? It just seems really strange to say that you wouldn't invest in your #1 ranked player.

He's kind of a de facto #1 because nobody else really deserves the spot. In my rankings I said I would be looking to trade down if I had that pick.

Makes sense. I guess it just seems strange that when you got locked into pick 1.01 you picked someone other than your #1 ranked player.

 

[EBF]

Part of the reason why Warrick busted is because he wasn't particularly fast. He only ran a 4.6, which is a disappointing time for a 5'11" WR.

I have my doubts about Austin, but at least he can fly.

Hey EBF, you seem really down on Austin for a guy you have ranked #1. Are you having second thoughts about his ranking? It just seems really strange to say that you wouldn't invest in your #1 ranked player.

He's kind of a de facto #1 because nobody else really deserves the spot. In my rankings I said I would be looking to trade down if I had that pick.

Makes sense. I guess it just seems strange that when you got locked into pick 1.01 you picked someone other than your #1 ranked player.

Highest pick I had this year was 1.02. Austin was available, but I traded down one spot for a very small move up later in the first. Guy who moved up took Austin. I took Eifert with the third pick.

 

[cusefan115]

Part of the reason why Warrick busted is because he wasn't particularly fast. He only ran a 4.6, which is a disappointing time for a 5'11" WR.

I have my doubts about Austin, but at least he can fly.

Hey EBF, you seem really down on Austin for a guy you have ranked #1. Are you having second thoughts about his ranking? It just seems really strange to say that you wouldn't invest in your #1 ranked player.

He's kind of a de facto #1 because nobody else really deserves the spot. In my rankings I said I would be looking to trade down if I had that pick.

Makes sense. I guess it just seems strange that when you got locked into pick 1.01 you picked someone other than your #1 ranked player.

Highest pick I had this year was 1.02. Austin was available, but I traded down one spot for a very small move up later in the first. Guy who moved up took Austin. I took Eifert with the third pick.

Yeah, sorry I was referencing the draft where you said that you had 1.02. I didn't realize you traded down. I guess that is where I got confused. That makes a lot more sense.

Thanks!

 

[donkshow]

TAVON!

I'll be trying to get this guy for sure.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/826/tavon-austin-will-be-a-top-20-wr-in-2013

I understand the reasons why the author wanted to 100% exclude offensive schemes and performance statistics, but at the same time I think it can lead to significant errors in certain cases, and I think Austin being drafted by the Rams is one of those cases. Tavon Austin caught the majority of his passes very close to the line of scrimmage in college, and the Rams just lost their WR who played in a very similar role this off-season. In his last 2 seasons Austin averaged 11.5 yards per reception, and Danny Amendola averaged ~9.5 yards per reception, yet the author is projecting Austin to have 16.3 yards per reception. Seems very off base to me.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

DeAndre Hopkins.

Wrong thread, I assume?

 

[TheFanatic]

https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/826/tavon-austin-will-be-a-top-20-wr-in-2013

I understand the reasons why the author wanted to 100% exclude offensive schemes and performance statistics, but at the same time I think it can lead to significant errors in certain cases, and I think Austin being drafted by the Rams is one of those cases. Tavon Austin caught the majority of his passes very close to the line of scrimmage in college, and the Rams just lost their WR who played in a very similar role this off-season. In his last 2 seasons Austin averaged 11.5 yards per reception, and Danny Amendola averaged ~9.5 yards per reception, yet the author is projecting Austin to have 16.3 yards per reception. Seems very off base to me.

Amendola had no YAC. He caugh the ball and dropped if a defender sneezed on him. Also, the Rams had no deep threat and so teams clogged the middle hard to stop Amendola and SJ39 because they didn't have to worry about anything else.

Givens showed some spark as a deep threat and they drafted Sted Bailey. Those two guys should help. Also, they can't focus only on Austin the way they did with Amendola because Cook is there now too. Kendrick's looked good late in the season as well. Having those three guys criss cross a few yards out could work wonders

 

[Bob Magaw]

doesn't sound like the plan is to limit snaps due to size concerns... if you think about it, if the rams did have significant reservations, they probably don't trade up to get austin in that rarified draft real estate (they could have gotten bigger WRs with no size concerns like patterson and hopkins later, without having to pay the premium to move up)...

rotoworld (originally PFT)...

Coach Jeff Fisher confirmed he envisions a big role for Tavon Austin right away.

"Fisher wants Austin to be a weapon out of the slot, take some handoffs out of the backfield and be a factor in the return game. "We're going to try to get the ball to him as often as we can, however we do that," Fisher said. The Rams clearly envision Austin influencing games in the same vein as Randall Cobb and Percy Harvin. They're loading up his plate."