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Tavon Austin (1 Viewer)

The way Schottenheimer used Austin in the first two months or so of the season, he was ineffective.

When he was used more imaginatively in the last month approximately (in motion, on crossing routes, deep routes outside and out of the backfield) he was more effective.

If the OC forgets and ignores what led to his success in the last month, than I don't like Austin's prospects in 2014. If Austin's usage is more along the lines of his more successful last month (and he should be more acclimated to the NFL and play faster through understanding the scheme better), than imo he could definitely have upside and breakout potential.

Many scouts noted he never missed a game as a prep or in college, but he did miss the last three games, so he needs to show he can stay on the field consistently in the NFL.

 
It doesn't help that Austin had a paltry 10.1% drop rate last year. 2nd worst in the NFL for players with at least 50 targets.

 
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Austin clearly had the yips early, with 6 drops in his first five games (which also overlaps with the misuse period).

I'm not sure, but I think he only had 1 drop in his last two months.

 
Austin clearly had the yips early, with 6 drops in his first five games (which also overlaps with the misuse period).

I'm not sure, but I think he only had 1 drop in his last two months.
Perhaps Austin wasn't used ideally. But I think it's disingenuous to place as much of it on usage as many are doing and I always have. Many of Austin's problems were brought on himself. That's an awful drop rate, simply awful. It's not the only struggle he had early on as well.
 
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It doesn't help that Austin had a paltry 10.1% drop rate last year. 2nd worst in the NFL for players with at least 50 targets.
According to PFF Austin had 5 drops on 65 targets (7.7%).

Cobb had 11 drops on 102 targets (10.8%) in 2012. He had 4 on 31 (12.9%) targets in 2011.

 
Austin clearly had the yips early, with 6 drops in his first five games (which also overlaps with the misuse period).

I'm not sure, but I think he only had 1 drop in his last two months.
Perhaps Austin wasn't used ideally. But I think it's disingenuous to place as much of it on usage as many are doing and I always have. Many of Austin's problems were brought on himself. That's an awful drop rate, simply awful. It's not the only struggle he had early on as well.
The six drops in the first five games obviously wasn't good.The one drop in the last eight games was better. Sometimes rookies improve with experience.

All I can say is I watched every game he played in, and when he was used more creatively in his last month, he was more productive.

I don't chalk up your difference of opinion about how much misuse contributed to his struggles to you being disingenuous, I just think we see things differently. It happens sometimes.

 
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Austin clearly had the yips early, with 6 drops in his first five games (which also overlaps with the misuse period).

I'm not sure, but I think he only had 1 drop in his last two months.
Perhaps Austin wasn't used ideally. But I think it's disingenuous to place as much of it on usage as many are doing and I always have. Many of Austin's problems were brought on himself. That's an awful drop rate, simply awful. It's not the only struggle he had early on as well.
The six drops in the first five games obviously wasn't good.The one drop in the last eight games was better. Sometimes rookies improve with experience.

All I can say is I watched every game he played in, and when he was used more creatively in his last month, he was more productive.

I don't chalk up your difference of opinion about how much misuse contributed to his struggles to you being disingenuous, I just think we see things differently. It happens sometimes.
I'm not trying to be combative but I don't think it's much of an opinion. It's seems pretty straight forward to me. Austin dropped 6 of his 40 targets in the 1st 5 games. That's a drop rate of 14.5%. He also struggled to create separation vs coverage. It seems to me St. L realized they needed to back off and bring him along much more slowly seeing that after game 5 he saw only 29 targets in the final 8 games. I'm sure he figured out how to play better during that time and that St. L also realized better ways of exploiting his talents. None the less, he created a lot of his own problems but we only seem to ever hear about how he was "miss used." It's not really the coaches fault he dropped so many balls or had difficultly getting open. Some of the responsibility falls on the player. A lot as it relates to drops IMO. Hopefully the dropsies was rookie nerves and he's cleared that hurdle. We will see this year I suppose.

 
I respect your right to your opinion even if I don't agree with it.

Right, the first five game drop percentage wasn't good.

The last eight games (1/29 = 3%) was much improved.

Some of the routes early, which I characterized as misuse, imo weren't conducive to getting a lot of separation.

Part of the drop in receptions can probably be traced to his playing only two more games with Bradford after week five, and his last six with Clemens. They ran more 3TE sets, etc.

The OC doesn't get the blame for the 6 drops he had in his first five games, or the credit for the 1 drop he had in his last eight games.

I think the part where he learned to play better or they learned how to use him better didn't happen in the first five weeks, so he did worse then. After he learned to play better and they learned how to use him better, he improved.

I don't know about the ever hear misuse part. No sugar coating that 6 drops in the first five games wasn't good (the three missed games at the end also contributed to his disappointing season total, the starting QB missed more than half the season, so multiple reasons have been cited). But the 1 drop in his last eight games (or 1/29 = 3% if you prefer) suggests improvement to me.

If the earlier routes weren't conducive to getting separation, that is on the OC. If they improved over the course of the season, that is to the credit of the OC. I'm not suggesting the OC was 100% of the problem. Just, relative to that part he may have contributed to and played a role in during the first five games, if the OC showed greater creativity in using Austin later in the season, which he did imo, that could be a cause for optimism (in addition to the 1 drop in the last two months he played, or 1/29 = 3%).

My hope is that the dropsies in the first five games which were reduced to only one more in the last eight games could be evidence that he already began the process of clearing the hurdle last year.

* Maybe most of the drops were on him. Possibly some were unrelated and some were related to usage. I thought there were times he committed a common mistake, failing to look the ball in because he was paying too much attention to what he was going to do with the ball after the catch before securing it. Putting him in a route or within a route combination where he is in close proximity to several converging defenders is different than putting him in motion to get him into space, running routes designed to use his quickness and speed to stress the defense laterally on crossing routes and vertically on fly patterns where he is better positioned to create separation, such as the IND game, and handing him the ball in the backfield (he was a record breaking Baltimore prep RB, kind of like Harvin was primarily a RB at Flordia) like in the CHI and ARI games. The last point isn't receiving-related, but I think they could have gotten him a few more carries last year, which could be another potential upside factor.

If the same play is called to the same player to the same spot repeatedly and it isn't working, there seems to be several levels of wrong to that. One is sheer predictability. If the defense knows the play, it makes it a lot easier to defend. Point taken one way to look at it is that he could have done better. Another is that the OC shares some responsibility for recognizing if a play has repeatedly failed, and the need to try different plays, and identify ones that work better (which I thought he didn't do well early, but did a better job later).

 
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Some of the routes early, which I characterized as misuse, imo weren't conducive to getting a lot of separation.
Specifically, which routes did Tavon have trouble with separation?
The big route combo Schotty seemed to prefer from what I could see was Tavon running a six yard button-hook with Givens running a skinny post over the top of that. So you have a guy who is electric with the ball in his hands... and then set him up to have to ome to a complete stop to get the pass to him. So yeah, he may be able to get initial separation in order to be open to get the ball, but then you've negated his greatest strength by having him dial down to a full stop. The separation he had to get the pass.... evaporates in an instant.

 
Some of the routes early, which I characterized as misuse, imo weren't conducive to getting a lot of separation.
Specifically, which routes did Tavon have trouble with separation?
The big route combo Schotty seemed to prefer from what I could see was Tavon running a six yard button-hook with Givens running a skinny post over the top of that. So you have a guy who is electric with the ball in his hands... and then set him up to have to ome to a complete stop to get the pass to him. So yeah, he may be able to get initial separation in order to be open to get the ball, but then you've negated his greatest strength by having him dial down to a full stop. The separation he had to get the pass.... evaporates in an instant.
Only because he's not a good receiver. A good receiver attacks the ball on that route, he doesn't sit still waiting for the pass.

 
Some of the routes early, which I characterized as misuse, imo weren't conducive to getting a lot of separation.
Specifically, which routes did Tavon have trouble with separation?
The big route combo Schotty seemed to prefer from what I could see was Tavon running a six yard button-hook with Givens running a skinny post over the top of that. So you have a guy who is electric with the ball in his hands... and then set him up to have to ome to a complete stop to get the pass to him. So yeah, he may be able to get initial separation in order to be open to get the ball, but then you've negated his greatest strength by having him dial down to a full stop. The separation he had to get the pass.... evaporates in an instant.
Only because he's not a good receiver. A good receiver attacks the ball on that route, he doesn't sit still waiting for the pass.
To be fair, rookies raised in the spread offense often don't grasp some of the subtleties required for playing pro-level receiver. Austin could improve in a lot of those areas.

 
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All-22: Where have you gone, Tavon Austin?

Below SI article (with stills) addresses some of the questions about Schottenheimer's passing game design and route concepts, also identifies blocking execution as a problem. Note this was already being said as early as September of last year, it's not something new.

http://www.si.com/nfl/audibles/2013/09/30/tavon-austin-st-louis-rams

* Austin only had 10 yards on 4 rushing attempts in the first three games, than they abandoned it with 0 carries in the next five weeks. In the last five weeks, he had exactly 1 rush per game, breaking out with a 65 yard TD run week 11 against CHI and a 56 yard run week 13 against ARI. Given his success at the end of the season, hopefully they get the ball to him out of the backfield more often than 9 times all season. He was injured on the run play in the ARI game (maybe Dansby was the trailing tackler?) which caused him to miss the last three games, but that could just as easily have happened on a pass play.

If you look at the part of the season after the first five games in which the 6 drops were an issue, with only 1 drop in the last eight games, he only had more than 2 receptions in two of those games. The last six of those games had Clemens at QB, so that isn't all on the OC. But I do think since they traded a mid-first and mid-second for him, they should make a concerted effort to get the ball in his hands more often.

Fisher retained Schottenheimer but not Walton. I don't know, but I assume along with year end player reviews, they have coordinator/coach reviews as well. If STL can't get over the hump in year three of the Fisher/Snead rebuild, it will be a disappointment for them as well as a potential problem for Schottenheimer. So if Fisher hasn't said anything already (and Fisher and Schottenheimer have both talked about getting the ball to Austin more often in 2014 so either thay came to the same conclusion independently or more likely have discussed it - specifically, they talked about quality and not just quantity of touches, having a better understanding of what he does well), it may come up if Austin continues to have a lot of games with 2 or less receptions and 0 carries.

Though if they win with the formula of a stong running game (with the addition of Robinson and Mason) as well as a strong defense (strengthened by the additions of new DC Gregg WIlliams and rookies Aaron Donald and Lamarcus Joyner), that could take some of the urgency off. But in the NFC West, I think they will need to create more explosive big play opportunities to win consistently, and Austin should play a bigger role in 2014 than he did last year.

 
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CalBear said:
Junior McSpiffy said:
cloppbeast said:
Some of the routes early, which I characterized as misuse, imo weren't conducive to getting a lot of separation.
Specifically, which routes did Tavon have trouble with separation?
The big route combo Schotty seemed to prefer from what I could see was Tavon running a six yard button-hook with Givens running a skinny post over the top of that. So you have a guy who is electric with the ball in his hands... and then set him up to have to ome to a complete stop to get the pass to him. So yeah, he may be able to get initial separation in order to be open to get the ball, but then you've negated his greatest strength by having him dial down to a full stop. The separation he had to get the pass.... evaporates in an instant.
Only because he's not a good receiver. A good receiver attacks the ball on that route, he doesn't sit still waiting for the pass.
If the route is a hook or sit route, then attacking the ball brings him back to the QB. What it doesn't do is give him a running start in a way that helps him avoid defenders. His game is about speed and elusiveness, and that route combo where he asks Austin to just sit in a soft spot of the zone eliminates it from the equation. Late in the year, they started working more on crossing routes and getting him the ball in motion so he could do something with it, but there was still far too many plays designed to force Austin to stop and let the defense gather around him while the ball is in the air.

 
Tavon Austin - WR - Rams
Tavon Austin acknowledged he struggled to learn the Rams' playbook as a rookie.
It's worth noting Austin scored a 7 on his 2013 Wonderlic test. "I didn't really know what was going on," he said. "Everything looked like Spanish and sounded like Spanish to me." Entering his second season, Austin now claims to have OC Brian Schottenheimer's system down pat. He's expected to be a sub-package weapon, playing limited snaps. Austin is a long shot for steady WR3 value.


Source: Associated Press
Jul 23 - 12:06 PM

 
Rotoworld:

Tavon Austin - WR - Rams

Tavon Austin and Kenny Britt are listed as the first-team wide receivers on St. Louis' first unofficial depth chart.

Last year's No. 8 overall pick, Austin has had a quiet camp after an ineffective rookie season. Perhaps the Rams are listing him as a starter in an effort to boost Austin's confidence. In training camp, Britt and Brian Quick have predominately worked as the starters with Austin in the slot and backfield.

Aug 4 - 3:48 PM
 
Rotoworld:

Tavon Austin - WR - Rams

Tavon Austin and Kenny Britt are listed as the first-team wide receivers on St. Louis' first unofficial depth chart.

Last year's No. 8 overall pick, Austin has had a quiet camp after an ineffective rookie season. Perhaps the Rams are listing him as a starter in an effort to boost Austin's confidence. In training camp, Britt and Brian Quick have predominately worked as the starters with Austin in the slot and backfield.

Aug 4 - 3:48 PM
The Rams list Austin as a starter to boost his confidence....? Where's the :bullcrap: smiley when you need it?

 
Rotoworld:

Tavon Austin - WR - Rams

Tavon Austin and Kenny Britt are listed as the first-team wide receivers on St. Louis' first unofficial depth chart.

Last year's No. 8 overall pick, Austin has had a quiet camp after an ineffective rookie season. Perhaps the Rams are listing him as a starter in an effort to boost Austin's confidence. In training camp, Britt and Brian Quick have predominately worked as the starters with Austin in the slot and backfield.

Aug 4 - 3:48 PM
The Rams list Austin as a starter to boost his confidence....? Where's the :bullcrap: smiley when you need it?
Should change their name to BSWorld.

 
"He's expected to be a sub package weapon"

I hate this kind of thing. Who is expecting that? If it's someone actually covering the team then cite the source. If it's just the Roto author sharing his biased opinion then he should own it.

I posted this in the Stedman Bailey thread this morning, but the Post Dispatch's Ram's beat reporter Jim Thomas was on local radio this morning praising Bailey. He said Briit, Bailey and Quick have been the 3 that have stood out to him. He didn't really say Austin was having a bad camp, but more just kind of "meh". He also went on to say that Austin will be getting plenty of playing time on offense this season. It should also be noted that Quick was receiving all kinds of praise last August, too.

 
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I posted this in the Stedman Bailey thread this morning, but the Post Dispatch's Ram's beat reporter Jim Thomas was on local radio this morning praising Bailey. He said Briit, Bailey and Quick have been the 3 that have stood out to him. He didn't really say Austin was having a bad camp, but more just kind of "meh". He also went on to say that Austin will be getting plenty of playing time on offense this season. It should also be noted that Quick was receiving all kinds of praise last August, too.
I remember reading positive reports of Britt for the Titans last year also, which makes me wonder about the importance of camp buzz altogether. Many recent false positives stick in my memory.

At this point, it means very little to me that Austin is having a 'quiet camp' when compared to other players who are supposedly lighting it up. If it lowers Austin's price, in fact I'm more likely to have him on my squad.

 
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Rotoworld:

Tavon Austin - WR - Rams

Tavon Austin and Kenny Britt are listed as the first-team wide receivers on St. Louis' first unofficial depth chart.

Last year's No. 8 overall pick, Austin has had a quiet camp after an ineffective rookie season. Perhaps the Rams are listing him as a starter in an effort to boost Austin's confidence. In training camp, Britt and Brian Quick have predominately worked as the starters with Austin in the slot and backfield.

Aug 4 - 3:48 PM
The Rams list Austin as a starter to boost his confidence....? Where's the :bullcrap: smiley when you need it?
Should change their name to BSWorld.
They already have it all figured out, so I don't see why they bother to share news updates.

 
Britt on one side, Quick on the other with Tavon in the slot. When Bailey returns, he will push somebody. Pettis and Givens are the bottom 2 and it's not close.

 
Britt on one side, Quick on the other with Tavon in the slot. When Bailey returns, he will push somebody. Pettis and Givens are the bottom 2 and it's not close.
Britt and Cook have a ton of drops. I would guess Quick has his share or reasonably could. I wonder how the depth chart shakes out if they start dropping easy passes.

In TEN it was oh so clearly Fisher thinking "I've had enough" and they sit and then start the next game. Anyhow, I wonder about Givens having some decent second half stats in games.

 
Britt on one side, Quick on the other with Tavon in the slot. When Bailey returns, he will push somebody. Pettis and Givens are the bottom 2 and it's not close.
Britt, Quick, Austin, Bailey, Pettis, Givens. Damn. The Rams need some WRs. This has to be a bottom 5 WR corps.
I have doubts people will be saying that in a few months. Just as I doubt people would have kept saying it if Bradford had stayed healthy after his 1700/14/4 start through six games and change. The team can pass the ball just fine. :shrug:

Actually, people probably will keep saying it. But they'll be wrong, too.

 
It was only 3 targets (and 3 receptions) but Austin looks uncoverable. A creative OC would get this guy 100 catches.

 
cstu said:
It was only 3 targets (and 3 receptions) but Austin looks uncoverable. A creative OC would get this guy 100 catches.
really think they should steal some of kendall wright's plays

 
Rotoworld:

Torry Holt stated in a radio interview Tuesday that sophomore WR Tavon Austin has been "very quiet" in 2014 training camp.

"Tavon Austin has been very quiet this camp," said Holt, who's a regular at Rams camp and is St. Louis' preseason color analyst. "He was quiet the other night (in the preseason opener), and for a guy picked eighth overall, it's bothering me that he's been so quiet." Holt believes Austin will make his biggest second-year impact on special teams. Austin somehow has an early tenth-round ADP.

Source: Tim McKernan on Twitter

Aug 13 - 11:12 AM
 
Rotoworld:

Torry Holt stated in a radio interview Tuesday that sophomore WR Tavon Austin has been "very quiet" in 2014 training camp.

"Tavon Austin has been very quiet this camp," said Holt, who's a regular at Rams camp and is St. Louis' preseason color analyst. "He was quiet the other night (in the preseason opener), and for a guy picked eighth overall, it's bothering me that he's been so quiet." Holt believes Austin will make his biggest second-year impact on special teams. Austin somehow has an early tenth-round ADP.

Source: Tim McKernan on Twitter

Aug 13 - 11:12 AM
From @BigGame81: I don't want to scare the fans with Tavon Austin. I'm hoping he'll be able to bring some excitement when he gets his chance
 
St. L would be wise to let this guy play in the slot more than outside. He can be a real problem there. The issue is they don't have WR1 to allow that.

 
According to ESPN Rams reporter Nick Wagoner, suspended WR Stedman Bailey has been "the most consistent wideout in camp."

Wagoner believes Bailey is "poised for a much bigger role upon his return;" he's suspended for the first four games of the season. Ideally, the Rams' top three-wideout set would involve Bailey at slot receiver with Brian Quick and Kenny Britt outside. Tavon Austin is a package player only. A better natural wideout than Austin, Bailey is someone to stash in deeper Dynasty leagues.


Source: ESPN.com

Aug 14 - 11:25 AM
Of course that is the opinion of a rotoworld...I do agree with it though.

 
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According to ESPN Rams reporter Nick Wagoner, suspended WR Stedman Bailey has been "the most consistent wideout in camp."

Wagoner believes Bailey is "poised for a much bigger role upon his return;" he's suspended for the first four games of the season. Ideally, the Rams' top three-wideout set would involve Bailey at slot receiver with Brian Quick and Kenny Britt outside. Tavon Austin is a package player only. A better natural wideout than Austin, Bailey is someone to stash in deeper Dynasty leagues.


Source: ESPN.com

Aug 14 - 11:25 AM
Of course that is the opinion of a rotoworld...I do agree with it though.
Is the bolded really true? I've not heard too much about that particular comparison.

 
According to ESPN Rams reporter Nick Wagoner, suspended WR Stedman Bailey has been "the most consistent wideout in camp."

Wagoner believes Bailey is "poised for a much bigger role upon his return;" he's suspended for the first four games of the season. Ideally, the Rams' top three-wideout set would involve Bailey at slot receiver with Brian Quick and Kenny Britt outside. Tavon Austin is a package player only. A better natural wideout than Austin, Bailey is someone to stash in deeper Dynasty leagues.


Source: ESPN.com

Aug 14 - 11:25 AM
Of course that is the opinion of a rotoworld...I do agree with it though.
Is the bolded really true? I've not heard too much about that particular comparison.
Bailey seems to get the ball more naturally in the flow of the offense. He ran great routes as a rookie.

Austin had some electric plays, and will continue to have them...but it seemed like they had to force the ball to him.

I personally would worry about owning any St.Louis wr's. The defensive line is scary good, the running game is really good, and this is Jeff Fisher.

 
More important than the full time or package player distinction are the bottom line touches averaged. If STL gets the ball in Austin's hands (whether receptions or rushes, somewhat like Patterson) 5-6 times a game, he could be startable. Nate Washington was #36 WR (FBG scoring) in 2013, with 919 yards and 3 TDs receiving. If he has 700-800 yards receiving and 200-300 rushing (900-1,100 combined) with 6+ TDs, he has upside.

If STL has 3,500+ passing yards (roughly Bob Henry's projection, with about 25 passing TDs), somebody has to get them. Maybe Cook has around 800+, which leaves about 2,700 between the WRs, RBs and other TEs. Stacy started 12 games and had 141 receiving yards. Kendricks had 258 yards and has turned into more of a blocker.

Austin (I think one drop after week five, on lower volume, but still an improvement on a percentage basis) should still have some kind of defined role as he is the only WR on the roster capable of making plays like in the IND, CHI and ARI games.

Britt and Quick are both interesting, for different reasons. If Britt returns to pre-knee injury form, he has the physical talent and athleticism to be the best STL WR since Holt and Bruce declined. He appears to have regained some if not all of his burst. There are also signs that the light could be coming on for Quick. Because I think Bailey is going to play a prominent role, I expect him to supplant Britt or Quick (probably Quick, though he could still have a role). Bailey had already passed Pettis by the end of his rookie season, I think he can safely be ruled out as a likely candidate to contribute significantly. I wouldn't be surprised if Pettis isn't on the roster once Bailey returns from his four game suspension. Givens was expected to be more in the mix for a starting role than he appears to be currently, so either he has regressed, other players have surpassed him (STL didn't have Britt in 2013, Bailey and Quick appear to be improved, etc.) or perhaps both?

Between Cook, Austin, Britt OR Quick AND Bailey, receiving production won't likely be distributed evenly, though four of them could get between 700-900 yards. More likely, imo, a few players separate themselves and push or surpass the upper bound of this range, and a few lag behind closer to or below the lower bound. Depending on TDs, a few of these players could be startable.

Cook, being the only TE threat, seems like a good bet to be one of them. 1-2 of the WRs could emerge, not likely to be Pettis or Givens, based on the pre-season. Austin, Bailey and Britt have a better shot than Quick, imo. Obviously with Bailey, being suspended for the first four games, his role and PPG average will need to be monitored closely if/when he is inserted into the lineup, as his season totals won't be helpful once he returns.

 
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I still believe in Tavon Austin. He should develop into a high volume target guy.
I argued last season that he was overrated. I never said he wasn't a good player. At this point his ADP is way underrated. Austin should push into the top-30 this season, taking a few carries with 3-5 catches per game.

 
Jeff Fisher:

"We just have to give him the ball," Fisher said. "Give him the ball in space, because we all know what he can do with it. And so we're doing some different things. Probably won't show a whole lot in the preseason, but I've (sic) very pleased with where he's at right now."
 
“Being able to move him around in different spots, he’s got a lot on his plate,” wide receivers coach Ray Sherman said.

“You can see that he’s playing so much faster than he was last year,” Bradford said. “Being in the second year of the offense, I think he feels a lot more comfortable with what he’s being asked to do. I don’t think he’s thinking as much, and you really see his speed come out in the way that he’s playing right now.”
 

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