TE Devin Funchess, Lions (1 Viewer)

[MAC_32]

I have a hard time believing Funchess is going to push Parris Campbell to the #3 WR spot. I watched all his games in Carolina and saying he has stone hands isn't an exaggeration. He reminds me a lot of Rod Gardner who the Skins drafted years ago. His nickname was 50/50 for the same reason. Just frustrating as all get out to watch him drop perfectly thrown passes half of the time. Doubt Luck will stay with him if he does that on a regular basis. If he has a Ebron like resurgence I'm happy for Colts fans and I'll come back and eat crow. But I just have seen nothing from him that makes me think he is a natural hands catcher. And if he struggled with Cam's fast ball I would think he'd struggle just as much or more from Luck. These aren't noodle arm QBs throwing him the ball. 

I don't think Funchess and Campbell will have any impact on one another.  They couldn't be much more different players.  I think the the threat to Funchess is Deon Cain and the threat to Campbell is Nyheim Hines.  I'm sure the Colts have visions on what Ebron did for them with the signing of Funchess, but if his (lack of) effort and concentration carry over from his poor finish with Carolina they're hoping to slide Cain in that role once his legs are back under him.  

 

[Wu-banger]

if anyone can make Funchess relevant  , it will be Luck. He will cut into Ebron production , who Luck also made into a productive player. If Funchess can not so some life , it's probably over for his career. 

 

[skycriesmary]

The last couple of years for him are not an abnormality, it's who he's been since being in the league. 

 

[Faust]

Colts coach Frank Reich came away "very encouraged" with Devin Funchess' performance at OTAs.

That's a surprising sentiment as Funchess' offseason work brought "mixed results," according to beat reporter Kevin Bowen of 1070 The Fan. Of course, all of that came without top signal-caller Andrew Luck, who sat out OTAs with a nagging calf injury. "For a big guy for his size we’ve said he’s got good feet and he’s got good body control," Reich noted. "So I was just really encouraged by his progress." Funchess is in line to be Indy's No. 2 receiver behind T.Y. Hilton, though the first-year Colt will face fierce competition for targets in a deep pass-catching corps.

SOURCE: 1070 The Fan

Jun 23, 2019, 1:06 PM ET

 

[TheWinz]

The last couple of years for him are not an abnormality, it's who he's been since being in the league. 

21 TD's in 311 targets over his 4 yrs with Cam.  And now he has Luck throwing to him.  His TD % rivals some of the finest.  I am very optimistic.

 

[Twenty-Four Eighty-Four]

With where I've seen him drafted in mocks, he's definitely worth a shot. I know there's lots of people competing for targets but he's a big body in the red zone, just like Ebron.

 

[-OZ-]

With where I've seen him drafted in mocks, he's definitely worth a shot. I know there's lots of people competing for targets but he's a big body in the red zone, just like Ebron.

He's a borderline flex start for me (I'll likely be deciding between him and Guice for a while, or Lamar Miller). Don't expect much but he'll have a few decent games. Better in best ball IMO. 

 

[skycriesmary]

21 TD's in 311 targets over his 4 yrs with Cam.  And now he has Luck throwing to him.  His TD % rivals some of the finest.  I am very optimistic.

Agreed. I think he'll be WR3 most weeks, probably posting 3/45 on average, and 6-8 TD's on the year.

 

[TheWinz]

Agreed. I think he'll be WR3 most weeks, probably posting 3/45 on average, and 6-8 TD's on the year.

He's on a 1 year deal that could fetch him upwards of $13M.  Many mouths to feed for the IND passing attack, but 8 TD's is well within his reach

 

[ChuckLiddell]

He's on a 1 year deal that could fetch him upwards of $13M.  Many mouths to feed for the IND passing attack, but 8 TD's is well within his reach

I think he is an awesome guy to have as a WR4/5 on your roster, than could become a WR2/3 potentially but that you are not relying upon to start the season in that role.  Solid buy if you can get him at a good price, and a clear hold if you already have him.

 

[tangfoot]

21 TD's in 311 targets over his 4 yrs with Cam.  And now he has Luck throwing to him.  His TD % rivals some of the finest.  I am very optimistic.

If you think his TD% is sustainable, more power to you.  As far as the TD number goes, he's in a 6-way tie for 27th overall in TD receptions over that period of time, tied with such phenoms as Jordan Reed and behind Kyle Rudolph and Cameron Brate. 

In short, it's a great total for a TE, but he doesn't really bring anything else to the table.  In fact, he has (by a significant amount) the lowest fantasy point total of anyone above him in this list, and you have to go down to #36 over all to find someone he outscored.  That person is Tyler ####### Eifert, who has an even More Amazing TD%.

The first WR he outscored in fantasy points is Allen Hurns at #41 overall.

Funchess puts up TE-like numbers from a position that requires far more than that to be consistently fantasy relevant.  And it's already been stated that he fits in the Red Zone role that Ebron and Doyle already are entrenched in.  So it's a 3-way battle for the "TE" role in Indy.  Keep him the hell off my fantasy team.

 

[TheWinz]

If you think his TD% is sustainable, more power to you.  As far as the TD number goes, he's in a 6-way tie for 27th overall in TD receptions over that period of time, tied with such phenoms as Jordan Reed and behind Kyle Rudolph and Cameron Brate. 

In short, it's a great total for a TE, but he doesn't really bring anything else to the table.  In fact, he has (by a significant amount) the lowest fantasy point total of anyone above him in this list, and you have to go down to #36 over all to find someone he outscored.  That person is Tyler ####### Eifert, who has an even More Amazing TD%.

The first WR he outscored in fantasy points is Allen Hurns at #41 overall.

Funchess puts up TE-like numbers from a position that requires far more than that to be consistently fantasy relevant.  And it's already been stated that he fits in the Red Zone role that Ebron and Doyle already are entrenched in.  So it's a 3-way battle for the "TE" role in Indy.  Keep him the hell off my fantasy team.

Do you really expect a guy whose current ADP is mid 12th round to be consistently fantasy relevant?  If so, you really are playing FANTASY football.  With a guy like him, you are simply hoping you get a TD on a week where you have to start him.

 

[tangfoot]

Do you really expect a guy whose current ADP is mid 12th round to be consistently fantasy relevant?  If so, you really are playing FANTASY football.  With a guy like him, you are simply hoping you get a TD on a week where you have to start him.

That doesn't sound like the "I'm very optimistic" line you stated 14 hours ago.  In fact, it sounds like you're downright pessimistic about his overall chances and are just "hoping" that you get anything positive whenever you are forced to put him in your lineup. 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[TheWinz]

That doesn't sound like the "I'm very optimistic" line you stated 14 hours ago.  In fact, it sounds like you're downright pessimistic about his overall chances and are just "hoping" that you get anything positive whenever you are forced to put him in your lineup. 

Thanks for the clarification.

50/600/7 is my optimistic projection, and that's great for a 12th round pick in redraft or best ball, but who drafts for starters in the 12th in a redraft?

 

[cloppbeast]

Funchess puts up TE-like numbers from a position that requires far more than that to be consistently fantasy relevant.  And it's already been stated that he fits in the Red Zone role that Ebron and Doyle already are entrenched in.  So it's a 3-way battle for the "TE" role in Indy.  Keep him the hell off my fantasy team.

It's been mentioned before, but theres a big difference between Andrew Luck and Cam Newton. 

 

[TheWinz]

Funchess puts up TE-like numbers from a position that requires far more than that to be consistently fantasy relevant.  And it's already been stated that he fits in the Red Zone role that Ebron and Doyle already are entrenched in.  So it's a 3-way battle for the "TE" role in Indy.  Keep him the hell off my fantasy team.

This makes it sound like Funchess will be on the bench if Ebron and/or Doyle are on the field.  If he keeps the role of WR2 behind Hilton, which I think he will, the targets will be there.  He isn't in competition with Ebron/Doyle, and I am sure Luck will be happy to have a big-bodied RZ threat at WR.

 

[Biabreakable]

50/600/7 is my optimistic projection, and that's great for a 12th round pick in redraft or best ball, but who drafts for starters in the 12th in a redraft?

Devin Funchess has a career catch rate of 51.8% thats terrible.

So for him to get 50 receptions at this rate would require 100 targets.

Funchess has a career yards per target of 7.1 which is also terrible 

Cam Newton had below 60% completion percentage until last season where it spiked to 67% I think most of that is because of CMC and that overall Luck is a more accurate QB. So perhaps some of these efficiency numbers can improve a bit. Not because Funchess gets any better, I think he is who he is, but because Luck can possibly get more out of him than Cam could.

The WR 2 position is wide open for the taking, but I would take any depth chart reports with a huge grain of salt right now. They haven't even practiced in pads yet. If you look at the Colts official depth chart you see that no WR is listed as a starter besides Hilton.

The Colts have a lot of WR on their roster but I do not know anything about most of these players besides Funchess, Chester Rodgers, Deon Cain and Paris Campbell. They traded for Grant last season and picked up Inman. They were definitely searching for someone who could contribute and didn't find anyone. This is at least part of the reason why Ebron did so well. The lack of other players to compete for targets.

I am very wary of drafting players because of opportunity based scenarios. I have been burned so many times projecting from this kind of logic.

Funchess efficiency stats scream do not draft to me but I don't know if any of these other WR are actually better than he is. Rodgers has a career 7.2 ypt and 66.4% catch rate. So its not impressive either but at least he has been more consistent.

 

[tangfoot]

It's been mentioned before, but theres a big difference between Andrew Luck and Cam Newton. 

Sure, and there’s a three-headed monster in Indy who are all roughly equal in talent and red zone ability. Good luck projecting the TD production from Ebron, Doyle, and Funchess.  

 

[tangfoot]

This makes it sound like Funchess will be on the bench if Ebron and/or Doyle are on the field.  If he keeps the role of WR2 behind Hilton, which I think he will, the targets will be there.  He isn't in competition with Ebron/Doyle, and I am sure Luck will be happy to have a big-bodied RZ threat at WR.

He couldn’t keep the role of WR2 in Carolina against a rookie and a 2nd year player. And now he goes to Indy with a rookie, and a 2nd year player 

 

[cloppbeast]

Funchess efficiency stats scream do not draft to me but I don't know if any of these other WR are actually better than he is. Rodgers has a career 7.2 ypt and 66.4% catch rate. So its not impressive either but at least he has been more consistent.

Other than hall of famers, pretty sure Cam Newton has never helped a wide receiver in efficiency. Seriously, go look at the stats of his receivers; other than Steve Smith, nothing to speak of. And being the best QB to play with Steve Smith isnt saying much.  

For me, I'm taking a chicken or the egg stance as to the stats of Funchess. And because the Colts threw some money at him, albeit without making a commitment, at least somebody in the know thinks he could be good. We will find out this year for sure. 

 

[cloppbeast]

Sure, and there’s a three-headed monster in Indy who are all roughly equal in talent and red zone ability. Good luck projecting the TD production from Ebron, Doyle, and Funchess.  

At least theres a lot to go around.

 

[TheWinz]

He couldn’t keep the role of WR2 in Carolina against a rookie and a 2nd year player. And now he goes to Indy with a rookie, and a 2nd year player 

Are you trying to compare DJ Moore, last year's top WR in the draft (1.24), who totaled 960 yds in his rookie season (tops for all rookie WR's), to Parris Campbell, the 7th WR taken (2.59)?

Are you trying to compare Curtis Samuel, the 3rd WR taken in the draft (2.40), who scored 7 TD's in only 47 touches, to Deon Cain, the 21st WR taken (6.185), without an NFL catch, coming back from ACL surgery, who may miss the first half of the season?

As for Devin last year, after his first 10 games, he was on pace for 66/826/5, then he missed week 12 with a bad back, and this is when Moore and Samuel took over.  Until that point, Devin had 68 targets, Moore had 39, and Samuel had 23.

Out of curiosity, please post your projections for Devin.  I posted mine.

If nothing else, it's been fun discussing, because it has forced me to dig deeper, and I still like Devin's chances to outdo his ADP.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Think about how Ebron looked and struggled catching the ball in Detroit. Then how much better he looked with Luck, and what a RZ threat he was despite "not being able to catch".

I don't know that Funchess will gain Luck's trust like Ebron did last year, and there's more competition for targets all the way around (Funchess and Campbell added, Doyle back, RB's probably didn't hit their ceiling of usage last year either). 

But to say "look how Funchess played in CAR" is ignoring a very similar situation with Ebron coming in last year. 

I don't trust it enough to buy, but I think I'd be foolish to think that I know what kind of player Funchess is already, and at a young age still. 

 

[MAC_32]

He couldn’t keep the role of WR2 in Carolina against a rookie and a 2nd year player. And now he goes to Indy with a rookie, and a 2nd year player 

I don't think it'd be wise to bet on him getting his head on right, but at his current rate you don't have to.  And more importantly we'll know very quickly if he did or not.  Something I think isn't accounted for by many in our game.  When filling out the bench I try to avoid wait-and-see stash types that I have to wait at least a few weeks for a payoff.  If he isn't cutting it in September then he probably won't and I can give him the axe for whatever shiny thing emerges on waivers.  

What makes him an interesting dart throw is his fit in this offense as the only WR that's a legit threat to him hasn't played a pro snap and is spending his time & energy rehabbing his knee.  And what this team demonstrated last year w/Ebron.  I'd be surprised if I'm comfortable starting him week 1, but (again) at his current rate you shouldn't need to.

 

[tangfoot]

I don't think it'd be wise to bet on him getting his head on right, but at his current rate you don't have to.  And more importantly we'll know very quickly if he did or not.  Something I think isn't accounted for by many in our game.  When filling out the bench I try to avoid wait-and-see stash types that I have to wait at least a few weeks for a payoff.  If he isn't cutting it in September then he probably won't and I can give him the axe for whatever shiny thing emerges on waivers.  

What makes him an interesting dart throw is his fit in this offense as the only WR that's a legit threat to him hasn't played a pro snap and is spending his time & energy rehabbing his knee.  And what this team demonstrated last year w/Ebron.  I'd be surprised if I'm comfortable starting him week 1, but (again) at his current rate you shouldn't need to.

While some are starting to get into the redraft mentality, I have been primarily commenting on Funchess from a dynasty standpoint.  He's worth a late-round flyer in redraft, absolutely.

 

[MAC_32]

While some are starting to get into the redraft mentality, I have been primarily commenting on Funchess from a dynasty standpoint.  He's worth a late-round flyer in redraft, absolutely.

Is he commanding much return in the dynasty market place?  That sure hasn't been my impression.  Fantasy Pros has him 56, CBS has him 70, Fantrax 68, FF Today 61, and Mike Clay 64.  That's just a sample from page one of a 'dynasty wide receiver rankings' google search.

Given his history, situation, and skill that strikes me as a hold.  What am I going to get offered for him in future draft capital?  A 3?  Maybe a 2 for Funchess and a 4?  But if his owner has quit on him then I could see him as a potential add-on in another deal.  I wouldn't give up a future pick for him, but hypothetically speaking if we have a a Devonta Freeman for AJ Green deal on the table I think Funchess could serve as a bridge between them should picks not be included.

 

[tangfoot]

Is he commanding much return in the dynasty market place?  That sure hasn't been my impression.  Fantasy Pros has him 56, CBS has him 70, Fantrax 68, FF Today 61, and Mike Clay 64.  That's just a sample from page one of a 'dynasty wide receiver rankings' google search.

Given his history, situation, and skill that strikes me as a hold.  What am I going to get offered for him in future draft capital?  A 3?  Maybe a 2 for Funchess and a 4?  But if his owner has quit on him then I could see him as a potential add-on in another deal.  I wouldn't give up a future pick for him, but hypothetically speaking if we have a a Devonta Freeman for Hunter Henry deal on the table I think Funchess could serve as a bridge between them should picks not be included.

I wouldn't have him in the top 100.  If you own, sell while you can.

 

[TheWinz]

I wouldn't have him in the top 100.  If you own, sell while you can.

Again, what is your projection for 2019?  I am a redraft guy, not dynasty, so only the current year matters to me.

 

[tangfoot]

Again, what is your projection for 2019?  I am a redraft guy, not dynasty, so only the current year matters to me.

I don't do projections, so please stop asking me for one.

 

[MAC_32]

I wouldn't have him in the top 100.  If you own, sell while you can.

You probably would, but like me you probably don't waste your time ranking players like Willie Snead, Josh Gordon, Chris Hogan, etc.  Those are the first three ranked 100+ on fantasy pros and none of the others went that deep.  Every dynasty leeg is different, but none of the ones I play in has guys like these as market place players this time of year.  I don't even know if I could get the sort of offers I mentioned before.  I've not put him on the market because I don't want others to know I would entertain moving him.  I think doing so impacts the sort of offers I may get later.  I made a note a month or so ago to try to move him and a 4 for a 2 plus if things go well early in the season and I don't need him.  I don't see the point in trying to move him any sooner though.  If someone reaches out about him I'll listen, but that hasn't happened.  Because there isn't a market for him.

 

[tangfoot]

You probably would, but like me you probably don't waste your time ranking players like Willie Snead, Josh Gordon, Chris Hogan, etc.  Those are the first three ranked 100+ on fantasy pros and none of the others went that deep.  Every dynasty leeg is different, but none of the ones I play in has guys like these as market place players this time of year.  I don't even know if I could get the sort of offers I mentioned before.  I've not put him on the market because I don't want others to know I would entertain moving him.  I think doing so impacts the sort of offers I may get later.  I made a note a month or so ago to try to move him and a 4 for a 2 plus if things go well early in the season and I don't need him.  I don't see the point in trying to move him any sooner though.  If someone reaches out about him I'll listen, but that hasn't happened.  Because there isn't a market for him.

You must not be looking at dynasty rankings.  Mizelle ADP shows him at 135 overall, and I wouldn't touch him there.

If you are strictly talking about WR rankings, his ADP is WR59.

Here's the list of guys ranked lower who I would take over Funchess without thinking:

Valdes-Scantling, Marquez
Johnson, Diontae
Foster, Robert
Callaway, Antonio
Williams, Tyrell
Boykin, Miles
McLaurin, Terry
Stills, Kenny

I wouldn't take Gordon over any of these guys, but he's a lottery ticket with immediate resale value if he takes the field and balls out like he did in his first game last year.

 

[MAC_32]

You must not be looking at dynasty rankings.  Mizelle ADP shows him at 135 overall, and I wouldn't touch him there.

If you are strictly talking about WR rankings, his ADP is WR59.

Here's the list of guys ranked lower who I would take over Funchess without thinking:

Valdes-Scantling, Marquez
Johnson, Diontae
Foster, Robert
Callaway, Antonio
Williams, Tyrell
Boykin, Miles
McLaurin, Terry
Stills, Kenny

I wouldn't take Gordon over any of these guys, but he's a lottery ticket with immediate resale value if he takes the field and balls out like he did in his first game last year.

I don't agree about Boykin and McLaurin.

I both understand why one would prefer Callaway and Williams and also wouldn't go out of my way to add them.

I have Washington and think he's a better bet than Johnson.  I don't believe in hedging, so I don't really want both knowing I'll get it right with one or the other.

Stills is interesting, but in an uninteresting sorta way.  If that makes sense.  He's interesting because he's the default #1.  But he's uninteresting because in a game of arbitrary end points in 6 years he's eclipsed 83 targets, 6 TD's, and 847 yards once each.  So while his likelihood of being a hit is higher than Funchess, even if he hits you probably still don't want to start him.  I generally avoid those types.

I agree about MVS and Foster, but the problem is their owner also feels the same way.  If I reach out to them with a Funchess for MVS offer it's getting rejected.  I think the same thing's going to happen if I reach out about any other young WR with upside. 

But I get what you're saying related to ADP and looking at some rankings I'm surprised he's as high as he is some places - Fantasy Pros 56, above 59.  I think there is a disconnect in applying that ranking to the actual market place though.  From what I've gleaned since the end of 2018 if I'm moving Funchess it's a dump trade because no one is pursuing him.  Maybe it's just my leeg's, but if we're talking Indy WR's Deon Cain has garnered more interest than him.  Obviously Campbell too.  Funchess is just kinda...there, until someone takes over the job - in my opponent's eyes anyway.  I get where that impression came from March-May and once that became clear during my rookie draft's in May that's when I noted him as a hold and don't bother considering trading until in-season, if at all.  Lots of tangible reasons to expect failure, but there is a path to a brighter future.  See if he takes that starting point from 2017 and needed the change of scenery/2nd chance to re-calibrate, focus, and earn his QB's trust - or crash & burn.  

Appreciate the examples though.  I've been checked out of this game since my drafts early May, so this has been a good starting point to slowly re-engage as camp nears.

 

[TheWinz]

I don't do projections, so please stop asking me for one.

If not projections, are you willing to give him a 2019 WR ranking?  I thought we were having fun here?

 

[MAC_32]

You must not be looking at dynasty rankings. 

Just to keep this response separate, I literally googled dynasty wide receiver rankings and took a sampling from page one.  I don't pay much attention to other people's dynasty rankings, so I have no idea how strong those sources are but five from page one of a google search seems like a reasonable sample.  More to it than this, but I've been more successful since I generally stopped paying attention to them though.  I've created my own way of team building that doesn't utilize rankings and it seems to work better for me.  It certainly isn't perfect, but then I'd have to devote more time & energy and who wants to do that.

 

[MAC_32]

If not projections, are you willing to give him a 2019 WR ranking?  I thought we were having fun here?

It may not be fun and it isn't going to be popular here, but I think both projections and rankings are mostly a waste of time.  Both depend on so many unknown factors we won't find out about until they actually happen.  I think a player like Funchess could be a draft consideration in one redraft and off the board in another.  I've already written my thoughts about him wrt dynasty, but I also think his value varies depending on format there too.

 

[tangfoot]

If not projections, are you willing to give him a 2019 WR ranking?  I thought we were having fun here?

Looking at redraft ADP, I would probably be taking TE or QB at that point in the draft.  There's about 5 WRs I would take above him at that spot if I was forced to go WR, but 12th round is a crapshoot (as you previously mentioned), anyway.

 

[Biabreakable]

Other than hall of famers, pretty sure Cam Newton has never helped a wide receiver in efficiency. Seriously, go look at the stats of his receivers; other than Steve Smith, nothing to speak of. And being the best QB to play with Steve Smith isnt saying much.  

For me, I'm taking a chicken or the egg stance as to the stats of Funchess. And because the Colts threw some money at him, albeit without making a commitment, at least somebody in the know thinks he could be good. We will find out this year for sure. 

Yes Cam Newton has been below 60% completion percentage in 5 of his 8 seasons played so far. He is not a very accurate QB. However his completion percentage did spike to 67% last season, as I already stated largely due to Christian McCaffrey helping that number.

Steve Smith played with Cam Newton for 3 seasons. 2011 to 2013 (age 32 to 34) he had a 57.4% catch rate over this time. Brandon LaFell in those 3 seasons had 59.5% catch rate. 

Newton has also worked with Ted Ginn who didn't need Cams inaccuracy to be inefficient. I would say Ted Ginn brought Cam Newtons completion percentage down. It was not at all unique to playing with Cam Newton. He had poor completion rate with Miami who drafted him, then with the Panthers, Cardinals, then Panthers again. Ted Ginn has a career 54.3% catch rate which is terrible, yet still better than Funchess.

The other two main WR that Cam has played with are Kelvin Benjamin (carrer catch rate of 51.2%) and Devin Funchess. 51.8%

While I do think Luck is more accurate than Cam Newton is, I also think Cam Newton hasn't had any favors as far as the receivers he has had to work with not counting Greg Olsen.

 

[Biabreakable]

Think about how Ebron looked and struggled catching the ball in Detroit. Then how much better he looked with Luck, and what a RZ threat he was despite "not being able to catch".

I don't know that Funchess will gain Luck's trust like Ebron did last year, and there's more competition for targets all the way around (Funchess and Campbell added, Doyle back, RB's probably didn't hit their ceiling of usage last year either). 

But to say "look how Funchess played in CAR" is ignoring a very similar situation with Ebron coming in last year. 

I don't trust it enough to buy, but I think I'd be foolish to think that I know what kind of player Funchess is already, and at a young age still. 

Then I am a fool for thinking Funchess is a sub standard NFL WR who would be better off playing TE I guess. He seems like the same player he was in college to me.

Eric Ebron career efficiency stats not noticeably different playing with Luck compared to Stafford except for TD percentage. Ebron just got more targets with Luck then he did with Stafford.

 

[smbkrypt24]

Yes Cam Newton has been below 60% completion percentage in 5 of his 8 seasons played so far. He is not a very accurate QB. However his completion percentage did spike to 67% last season, as I already stated largely due to Christian McCaffrey helping that number.

Steve Smith played with Cam Newton for 3 seasons. 2011 to 2013 (age 32 to 34) he had a 57.4% catch rate over this time. Brandon LaFell in those 3 seasons had 59.5% catch rate. 

Newton has also worked with Ted Ginn who didn't need Cams inaccuracy to be inefficient. I would say Ted Ginn brought Cam Newtons completion percentage down. It was not at all unique to playing with Cam Newton. He had poor completion rate with Miami who drafted him, then with the Panthers, Cardinals, then Panthers again. Ted Ginn has a career 54.3% catch rate which is terrible, yet still better than Funchess.

The other two main WR that Cam has played with are Kelvin Benjamin (carrer catch rate of 51.2%) and Devin Funchess. 51.8%

While I do think Luck is more accurate than Cam Newton is, I also think Cam Newton hasn't had any favors as far as the receivers he has had to work with not counting Greg Olsen.

I don't doubt some of the talent Cam has worked with has been subpar.  I think that happens with every NFL QB.  The greatest QB's make average players excellent.  Cam seems to excel only with excellent players.  I think this says more about Cam than the players.

 

[cloppbeast]

Other than hall of famers, pretty sure Cam Newton has never helped a wide receiver in efficiency. Seriously, go look at the stats of his receivers; other than Steve Smith, nothing to speak of.

Yes Cam Newton has been below 60% completion percentage in 5 of his 8 seasons played so far. He is not a very accurate QB. However his completion percentage did spike to 67% last season, as I already stated largely due to Christian McCaffrey helping that number.

Steve Smith played with Cam Newton for 3 seasons. 2011 to 2013 (age 32 to 34) he had a 57.4% catch rate over this time. Brandon LaFell in those 3 seasons had 59.5% catch rate. 

Newton has also worked with Ted Ginn who didn't need Cams inaccuracy to be inefficient. I would say Ted Ginn brought Cam Newtons completion percentage down. It was not at all unique to playing with Cam Newton. He had poor completion rate with Miami who drafted him, then with the Panthers, Cardinals, then Panthers again. Ted Ginn has a career 54.3% catch rate which is terrible, yet still better than Funchess.

The other two main WR that Cam has played with are Kelvin Benjamin (carrer catch rate of 51.2%) and Devin Funchess. 51.8%

So in other words, you looked up the stats for Cam's receivers, and there's nothing to speak of.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Then I am a fool for thinking Funchess is a sub standard NFL WR who would be better off playing TE I guess.

Not at all, man. I don't really see it either. Like I said, I am not confident enough to buy Funchess despite what I said--I just remember thinking similar things about Ebron last year. 

Eric Ebron career efficiency stats not noticeably different playing with Luck compared to Stafford except for TD percentage. Ebron just got more targets with Luck then he did with Stafford.

I think you bring up a good counterpoint here--I've argued in the dynasty trade thread recently that Ebron's lack of snaps once Doyle was healthy would terrify me. I'd be selling him. So maybe you're right that TD's (one of the most volatile stats even within elite offenses) are not a good reason to think things have actually changed with Ebron--he just got lucky with a better QB. Which would invalidate my initial hesitation to also write off Funchess. 

You could definitely be right here. Campbell is the dude in this offense that I'm buying, but I don't think any of us can guess where the TD's might go. Luck is too good and will attack the defense where it's weakest, not force it with all these RZ threats. 

 

[Biabreakable]

So in other words, you looked up the stats for Cam's receivers, and there's nothing to speak of.

No the efficiency of Benjamin, Ginn and Funchess (Benjamin part two) has been significantly worse than the other players Cam Newton has worked with.

Collectively they are bad enough to make Cam look worse than he is.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

This thread... 

(Black dot)

 

[Biabreakable]

I don't doubt some of the talent Cam has worked with has been subpar.  I think that happens with every NFL QB.  The greatest QB's make average players excellent.  Cam seems to excel only with excellent players.  I think this says more about Cam than the players.

Then why hasn't Chester Rodgers been better than he is?

I agree with your point to an extent. Look at Ted Ginn with Drew Brees. He had a career year totally anomalous with the rest of his career.

I don't think that changes the fact that Funchess is not a good football player.

 

[Babooya]

Depends what you are benchmarking for expectations. On paper his skill set is unique to what they have. He is inheriting an unquestionably better passer in a much higher volume offense. He is motivated on a well compensated one year prove it deal. He’s proven to have stretches of FF viability. He’s probably a 60-65 catch 7-800 yard 6-7TD guy. Otherwise put he’s WR25-30 (ppr) with WR20 upside WRcut downside with little investment. 

 

[BassNBrew]

I don't doubt some of the talent Cam has worked with has been subpar.  I think that happens with every NFL QB.  The greatest QB's make average players excellent.  Cam seems to excel only with excellent players.  I think this says more about Cam than the players.

How long did Benjamin last in Buffalo?  Where has Ginn even sniffed the production he saw in Carolina not once, but twice?  Was Olsen relevant before he came to Carolina?

I've appreciated some of the pro Funchess comments because they've forced me to re think some things.  That said, we could be looking at Funchess busting and be scratching our heads saying "but he had such a high TD% with Cam as his QB"

 

[MAC_32]

How long did Benjamin last in Buffalo?  Where has Ginn even sniffed the production he saw in Carolina not once, but twice?  Was Olsen relevant before he came to Carolina?

I've appreciated some of the pro Funchess comments because they've forced me to re think some things.  That said, we could be looking at Funchess busting and be scratching our heads saying "but he had such a high TD% with Cam as his QB"

Nah. The Benjamin career arc is the most likely path right now. There's just reason to believe it may not. His talent is unique enough. Neck-up unfortunately hasnt clicked though. 

 

[smbkrypt24]

Then why hasn't Chester Rodgers been better than he is?

I agree with your point to an extent. Look at Ted Ginn with Drew Brees. He had a career year totally anomalous with the rest of his career.

I don't think that changes the fact that Funchess is not a good football player.

Because Chester Rogers is a bad player.  

The one player I had in mind when typing this was players that played with Peyton Manning (I am sure other QBs like Brady you could say this for).  Manning made players look like stars while playing with him and when they moved on the production took a major hit (I.e. Garcon, Clark).  

It wouldn't change the fact I was just throwing that in as a possible reason.

 

[smbkrypt24]

How long did Benjamin last in Buffalo?  Where has Ginn even sniffed the production he saw in Carolina not once, but twice?  Was Olsen relevant before he came to Carolina?

I've appreciated some of the pro Funchess comments because they've forced me to re think some things.  That said, we could be looking at Funchess busting and be scratching our heads saying "but he had such a high TD% with Cam as his QB"

You are making my point about Ginn with his big seasons after leaving Carolina.  Olsen broke out in Carolina after being on the Bears.  The Bears haven't had a good QB since I have been alive.  TE also takes time to develop.

 

[TheWinz]

As the biggest Funchess supporter in here, let me just say I never said he was a great WR.  I just think his situation couldn't be any better right now.  He just signed a do-or-die 1 yr deal, and it wasn't for $100 - it was for $10M.  The Colts didn't dole out that much cash just so he could compete during training camp.  His redraft vs dynasty value are 2 completely different things, and I am focusing solely on 2019.  If he had signed for the same $10M with BAL, I wouldn't give him a second thought.  But this is Andrew Luck, who can surely support a WR2's stats.  By the time the bulk of fantasy drafts get underway, I can assure you he won't be available in the 12th round if he is listed as the starter opposite Hilton.

Again, I am only talking about redraft leagues.