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TE Evan Engram, DEN (1 Viewer)

I think Engram still gets the nod for me for one more week, but I'm stashing Clay on the off chance this trend doesn't turn around.

 
flapgreen said:
I'm starting the freaking Cardinals TE in his place. Smh
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I'm seriously considering dropping Engram for Ricky Seals-Jones for the playoffs.  Kelce's my starter, I've already clinched a Week 14 bye, so only Week 15 & 16 matter.  Engram's matchups are Week 15 vs Eagles (#10 vs TEs) and Week 16 vs Cardinals (#16 vs TEs).  After watching Engram drop ball after ball after ball (literally, there were 3) on Thanksgiving, I have little confidence that he's suddenly going to improve with Geno throwing him the ball.  Why is Engram a better play than a hot Seals-Jones down the stretch?   

 
kerosenedan said:
I'm seriously considering dropping Engram for Ricky Seals-Jones for the playoffs.  Kelce's my starter, I've already clinched a Week 14 bye, so only Week 15 & 16 matter.  Engram's matchups are Week 15 vs Eagles (#10 vs TEs) and Week 16 vs Cardinals (#16 vs TEs).  After watching Engram drop ball after ball after ball (literally, there were 3) on Thanksgiving, I have little confidence that he's suddenly going to improve with Geno throwing him the ball.  Why is Engram a better play than a hot Seals-Jones down the stretch?   
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Because Engram has been productive for more than two games.

I think ppl are chasing points with RSJs

Recency bias strikes again.

Engram leads the Giants in targets and likely will continue to. RSJ is the flavor of the last 2 weeks. Most TE tend to have a game or two of good performance then fade, Engrams had a bad two weeks but he has been good for most of the season.

Your worried about Geno Smith but going with a guy whos QB is Gabbert?

 
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kerosenedan said:
All good points, but Gabbert is the most compelling!

What about all Engram's drops?
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Any receiver who gets the ball a lot drops the ball.

Its not good. You don't want receivers to drop the ball, but I don't think its the end of the world. He is a rookie after all.

In your case it likely doesn't matter as you will be starting Kelce regardless.

 
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Biabreakable said:
So the answer is to throw away what Engram has done all year for a guy who was undrafted and had a hot two weeks?
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I think the question is this: Is it time we cash in our winnings from earlier this season on an NFL first round draft pick whose pre-draft knock has looked ever present the last two weeks (Engram) for a guy who we hadn't heard of 2 weeks ago, but has become his team's top target and hauled in a bunch of points (RSJ)?  You clearly lean no - @Flapgreen leans yes...I'm leaning towards bed.   

 
kerosenedan said:
I think the question is this: Is it time we cash in our winnings from earlier this season on an NFL first round draft pick whose pre-draft knock has looked ever present the last two weeks (Engram) for a guy who we hadn't heard of 2 weeks ago, but has become his team's top target and hauled in a bunch of points (RSJ)?  You clearly lean no - @Flapgreen leans yes...I'm leaning towards bed.   
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I think the whole thing reminds me of this

 
kerosenedan said:
Oh God...I hate the Eagles (band).  But a good metaphor, nonetheless.
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Get out of my car Dude!

FWIW Fitzgerald has led the Cardinals in targets the last two weeks although Gabbert clearly likes RSJ a lot as he has been practicing with the guy on the 2nd team more than any of their other receivers. I don't expect that to last. See Deonte Thompson.

 
FYI, Seals-Jones has played 25 snaps the past two weeks. That's not 25 per game, it's 25 combined. 

That doesn't automatically mean he can't keep it up. Just that maybe, before we give him the Billy Volek Playoff Savior Award, we should consider the wise words of Mr. Winston Wolf.

 
 As an EE owner I'm obviously nervous. I picked up RSJ as insurance but no way am I starting him over EE this week. Yeah Geno sucks but last I checked so does gabbert. 

 
Would be helpful to understand Geno's tendencies (other than a tendency to be downright horrible). Does he dump off to RBs? Favor short / quick passes? Or is he a knucklehead/risk taker who will take shots down the field?

 
kyoun1e said:
Would be helpful to understand Geno's tendencies (other than a tendency to be downright horrible). Does he dump off to RBs? Favor short / quick passes? Or is he a knucklehead/risk taker who will take shots down the field?
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If memory serves me correctly, whichever option is the worst possible choice on any given play is the one he will choose.

 
spider321 said:
If memory serves me correctly, whichever option is the worst possible choice on any given play is the one he will choose.
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I'm a Giants fans and a guy who watches alot of Jets games (brother is a Jets lifer). I can't even tell you them outside of being horribly inaccurate, running at the wrong time, not running when he should, and standing on benches looking like Jesus.

Geno is a wild card who doesn't improve the guys around him, which is lethal considering the lack of talent around him. However, his willingness to throw bad deep balls will give guys like King and Engram a chance to make plays since a smarter QB wouldn't try.

 
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Riding Henry over Engram this week. As much based on his matchup vs CLE than anything else, but gives me chance to see Smith/Engram chemistry ( :X  a little just writing that statement).

 
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Riding Engram ROS.  Drop all your other TE's to eliminate any decision making, and also then you can't blame yourself for making the wrong choice.  Unless you have another top tier TE...

 
Thanks Engram!  Your performance likely locked up the #1 seed for me and a first round bye!

Also that one handed catch was awesome!

 
I benched him for clay.  I THOUGHT my thinking was sound.  He has sucked balls for the last 2 games.  Dropped passes as if the ball was 1000 degrees.  New qb.  Crappy qb.  Who knew what their connection would be like.  Raiders have been stingy vs tight ends last several weeks, limiting I think Kelce and gronk.

Clay in catch up mode with Tyrod vs NE.  

And then BOOM!  The randomness of the NFL slaps me upside my face.  Lol.  I’m still glad to see him bounce back though as he’s a centerpiece for me in my Dynasty league.   

 
rickyg said:
I benched him for clay.  I THOUGHT my thinking was sound.  He has sucked balls for the last 2 games.  Dropped passes as if the ball was 1000 degrees.  New qb.  Crappy qb.  Who knew what their connection would be like.  Raiders have been stingy vs tight ends last several weeks, limiting I think Kelce and gronk.

Clay in catch up mode with Tyrod vs NE.  

And then BOOM!  The randomness of the NFL slaps me upside my face.  Lol.  I’m still glad to see him bounce back though as he’s a centerpiece for me in my Dynasty league.   
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Reversion to mean. It's why I just set starters and play them vs always trying to guess who will do better. 

 
rickyg said:
I benched him for clay.  I THOUGHT my thinking was sound.  He has sucked balls for the last 2 games.  Dropped passes as if the ball was 1000 degrees.  New qb.  Crappy qb.  Who knew what their connection would be like.  Raiders have been stingy vs tight ends last several weeks, limiting I think Kelce and gronk.

Clay in catch up mode with Tyrod vs NE.  

And then BOOM!  The randomness of the NFL slaps me upside my face.  Lol.  I’m still glad to see him bounce back though as he’s a centerpiece for me in my Dynasty league.   
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I had the same exact thoughts and started Clay.  It was good to see him have a good game given the past 2 where he struggled bad. 

 
Who stood out at OTA practice? (5/29)

Excerpt:

TE EVAN ENGRAM: The second-year tight end started the day with a highlight catch down the sideline on a perfect pass from Eli Manning (think Manning to Mario Manningham in Super Bowl XLVI). He followed up with a handful of other catches throughout the morning, including two in the “blitz” period as a safety valve for Manning. Engram, who last year was the first rookie tight end in franchise history to lead the team in receptions, is looking for an even better sophomore campaign.
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Sophomore Evan Engram said the game has slowed down for him heading into 2018.

"The game has slowed down a lot," Engram said. "And that’s allowing me to kind of dig deeper into my bag of route techniques, or getting open and being able to focus more on the run game and getting stronger and just getting more comfortable out there. Last year, I kind of was, head was on a swivel a lot, the game was so fast and I wasn’t used to it." Engram got off to a slow rookie start but exploded after the first month and was the focal point of the Odell Beckham-less offense. With OBJ back and Saquon Barkley now in the system, Engram's production may slip, but he remains a top-six TE1.

Source: northjersey.com 

May 30 - 1:37 PM
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What we learned about the Giants after Week 2 of OTA practices

Excerpt:

EVAN ENGRAM IS PLAYING WITH FULL CONFIDENCE

Engram had an excellent rookie season outside of the dropped passes, but there are multiple reasons to believe he will have a much better season in 2018, and we’re already seeing it start to take form in OTA practices. In 2017, as a rookie, Engram was still getting used to the speed of the NFL game. He admitted recently that he still found himself thinking too often on his routes. Engram has stopped thinking and he’s moving much faster in OTA practices. He has caught multiple touchdown and first downs from Manning including a long touchdown reception during Tuesday’s practice that may have been the single best play of any Giants OTA practice to date.
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Engram is a top 10 dynasty asset moving forward given the landscape at TE. You can build a team around him. 

 
Milkman said:
Engram is a top 10 dynasty asset moving forward given the landscape at TE. You can build a team around him. 
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I really like him...he was pretty advanced for a rookie TE...still a lot to work on but he has all the tools to be an elite TE for quite some time...

 
Glad to see these last few posts from posters I respect.  I have Engram and am high on him as well.  I hear a lot about how ineffficient he was last year and how his volume will decrease due to healthy starters returning and a stronger running game.  All fair, but what I think sometimes gets lost was all of the really good things he did as a rookie and how he stepped up as a go to player when the team needed him.  I think he still will get significant volume, improve his efficiency and finish top 5 at TE this year.

 
Plenty of reason for optimism for Engram, but taking Ertz over Engram is a no brainer for me. If not for the injury, Henry was an easy choice, too. Henry's actually a bit younger despite being in the league an extra year. Njoku is two years younger despite being in the same draft class as Engram.

 
Notes and observations from Giants OTAs (6/6)

Excerpt:

•  The offense worked on sideline routes. Eli Manning hit Evan Engram on a dart, after he beat Janoris Jenkins outside. The coverage wasn’t bad, but Engram, even at 240 pounds, created enough separation to allow Manning squeeze the ball in there. It says something that Engram, a tight end, can separate with his quickness from one of the top cornerbacks in the league. 

•  Later in practice, there was another great connection from Manning to Engram in red zone seven-on-seven. He put the ball perfectly over Engram’s shoulder on his fingertips. The tight end got his hands up and pulled it down for the score. I think there’s a real chance Engram leads Giants’ receivers in touchdowns this year. I wouldn’t bet against Odell Beckham Jr., but I’m telling you there’s a chance. 
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FF Ninja said:
Plenty of reason for optimism for Engram, but taking Ertz over Engram is a no brainer for me. If not for the injury, Henry was an easy choice, too. Henry's actually a bit younger despite being in the league an extra year. Njoku is two years younger despite being in the same draft class as Engram.
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Not sure about Ertz being a no-brainer. Engram was a 22 yr. old rookie, and became the focal point of the Giants O (by default). It's very likely he improves on his rookie season, because defenses will have to account for Beckham and Barkley. Last year, they had to worry about only him, really, for a while. The other guys? Henry and Njoku? What is their upside? Evan Engram?

 
Jello_Biafra said:
Not sure about Ertz being a no-brainer. Engram was a 22 yr. old rookie, and became the focal point of the Giants O (by default). It's very likely he improves on his rookie season, because defenses will have to account for Beckham and Barkley. Last year, they had to worry about only him, really, for a while. The other guys? Henry and Njoku? What is their upside? Evan Engram?
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By the same token Beckham and Barkley will siphon total opportunities away from Engram.  He will likely have to make up for that with increased efficiency per opportunity.

 
Chaka said:
By the same token Beckham and Barkley will siphon total opportunities away from Engram.  He will likely have to make up for that with increased efficiency per opportunity.
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I agree and I think Engram will be more efficient, if only with having more experience. Then again there's always the crazy notion that it will be him siphoning TDs from OBJ. Mark me down as a crazy person because that's exactly what I think will happen. 

 
Chaka said:
By the same token Beckham and Barkley will siphon total opportunities away from Engram.  He will likely have to make up for that with increased efficiency per opportunity.
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That play action to Saquon quick shot to Engram down the seam against an out of position LB with the safety shaded towards Odell’s side though!

 
Chaka said:
By the same token Beckham and Barkley will siphon total opportunities away from Engram.  He will likely have to make up for that with increased efficiency per opportunity.
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Not enough to have an impact.  They are just as likely to take those opportunities away from others in the offense like Shepard and whoever their slot guy is.  There are plenty of targets in an offense for one WR one TE and one RB to star.

 
Jello_Biafra said:
Not sure about Ertz being a no-brainer. Engram was a 22 yr. old rookie, and became the focal point of the Giants O (by default). It's very likely he improves on his rookie season, because defenses will have to account for Beckham and Barkley. Last year, they had to worry about only him, really, for a while. The other guys? Henry and Njoku? What is their upside? Evan Engram?
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Ertz is definitely a no-brainer. He is paired with Wentz for the foreseeable future. Engram has an aging Eli and then a question mark. Also, Ertz has proven ability (he's never had Engram's 115 targets, yet he's got 3 seasons over 800 yards and a 700 yard season on 89 targets). Engram has one volume assisted rookie year. And Engram will have to become very efficient to more than offset the loss of targets because a repeat of his rookie year stat line isn't exactly that exciting.

I'd like to think Henry and Njoku have 1000 yard upside. Does Engram have 1000 yard upside?

Hankmoody said:
Not enough to have an impact.  They are just as likely to take those opportunities away from others in the offense like Shepard and whoever their slot guy is.  There are plenty of targets in an offense for one WR one TE and one RB to star.
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I'm not convinced Engram is going to make Shepard an afterthought. They are both talented players and could easily cannibalize each other's fantasy prospects.  

 
FF Ninja said:
I'd like to think Henry and Njoku have 1000 yard upside. Does Engram have 1000 yard upside?
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Why do those guys have more upside than Engram? It’s fine to prefer hem both to Engram but he has just as much upside, if not more. He’s really just a big WR.

You list Eli aging as a knock on Engram, but Rivers is just as old and we have no idea if Mayfield will be a good NFL QB, although I believe he will.

Last years efficiency metrics, are just that - last years. I don’t think people realize what a dumpster fire last year was. The line was atrocious, Engram was the only weapon left and the team had given up on its head coach and played the season out with a interim HC.

Engram was a very good prospect and mostly looked good as a rookie TE - rookie TEs generally do not look good.

peopel try too hard sometimes to disparage a player instead of just seeing what’s in front of them.

 
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