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TE Evan Engram, DEN (2 Viewers)

voiceofunreason said:
Who said I did. But let's say a wr had 700 yards as a rookie on 115 targets, many of those because he was the only healthy guy left. Would you say that guy had an incredible season or would you say he has a lot to prove still?
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That’s still a good season for a rookie WR, but I’d still say he has a lot to prove. I think most comments in here are pretty much saying Engram has to become more efficient and get better. He still has something to prove. Most expect he likely will. I’m in the NY market so I can’t put everything as far as inefficiencies go on him though.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
That’s still a good season for a rookie WR, but I’d still say he has a lot to prove. I think most comments in here are pretty much saying Engram has to become more efficient and get better. He still has something to prove. Most expect he likely will. I’m in the NY market so I can’t put everything as far as inefficiencies go on him though.
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I did my NYG projections last night. Pretty interesting stuff between 8 years of looking at Sherman offenses and 5 years of Shula. TE1’s under Sherman only averaged 77 targets for those years but were a much more inferior bunch with Zach Ertz topping out at 112 targets in 2015. Shula was much more friendly to the TE but has had Greg Olsen for all of those seasons averaging 107 TE1 targets and a high of 129. Really a tough project as Shepard and him came about an even split for me. Anyway I projected a little more efficiency this year as that would be moving closer to the mean and had him at 59 rec 708 yds 5TD’s. If they start trying to use him inline during preseason I may shuffle toward Shepard. 

 
One thing that I think some of you are glossing over and Ira very simple: Eli LOVES targeting engram.   And he has an entire season under his belt of doing so. And now it continued in OTAs.  

This is what Eli does.  He builds quick rapport with good wrs and makes them stars.  Hakeem nicks.  Victor cruz.  Obj.  Engram.  

Eli started targeting the crap out of obj in his rookie year as soon as he came back from that hamstring issue.  Game 1.  

He is going to pepper obj, Barkley and engram this year.  Those will be his go to guys.  Shepard will get a few targets as will the other wrs.  But I can envision engram getting 8 or more targets per game and a few of those INC the red zone every week. 

He’s the biggest receiver on the team, the best red zone target.  He is a special talent and his an knows it.  

Obj being back is a positive for him.  So is Barkley and so is Shepard   They will all draw coverage from him as he will from them   Engram will get so many juicy matchups against linebackers that can’t handle his size/speed/agility and he is going to feast.  Eli also likes targeting the TE and he’s NEVER had a te like engram to throw to.  

Dont shy away.   

 
I've been super busy with boring stuff you guys really don't want to hear but Engram, given the landscape of the TE position, is very underrated. He had a great rookie season and he's going to get better. 

 
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Milkman said:
I've been super busy with boring stuff you guys really don't want to hear but Engram, given the landscape of the TE position, is very underrated. He had a great rookie season and he's going to get better. 
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Hardly. Have you seen his startup prices? He's going for over twice the price of his fellow 2017 rookies. I'm not saying I don't understand why that is happening, but simply pointing out that he's definitely not underrated at this point. 

 
FF Ninja said:
Hardly. Have you seen his startup prices? He's going for over twice the price of his fellow 2017 rookies. I'm not saying I don't understand why that is happening, but simply pointing out that he's definitely not underrated at this point. 
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Yeah, that's ridiculous. I'd much rather let someone spend an earlier pick on Engram and wait on guys like Njoku or Howard. Similar upside IMO, just not as included last year in their respective offenses 

 
Dr. Dan said:
Yeah, that's ridiculous. I'd much rather let someone spend an earlier pick on Engram and wait on guys like Njoku or Howard. Similar upside IMO, just not as included last year in their respective offenses 
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Howard wasn't used much as a pass catcher in college, and they signed Brate. Engram was and will be a big part of the Giants passing game for years to come. After Kelce and Ertz, in dynasty, who exactly would you (not you specifically, Dan) take? 

 
Jello_Biafra said:
Howard wasn't used much as a pass catcher in college, and they signed Brate. Engram was and will be a big part of the Giants passing game for years to come. After Kelce and Ertz, in dynasty, who exactly would you (not you specifically, Dan) take? 
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Ah yes, I forgot about Brate. Shows how focused I can be on just my team... 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in on Engram as a top 3 or 4 dynasty TE. But if I can get the same potential of talent, or maybe the next guy after Engram, 3 rounds later in a start up I may just do that as it's better value. I have no idea where all the TEs are going in start up. 

Looking at the TE dynasty rankings... there's not a lot to like; so many are getting up there in age. Njoku I guess. Maybe I'd go with Gisicki much later. 

It'll be crazy in about 3-4 years what that list will look like. So many different names. 

 
Jello_Biafra said:
Howard wasn't used much as a pass catcher in college, and they signed Brate. Engram was and will be a big part of the Giants passing game for years to come. After Kelce and Ertz, in dynasty, who exactly would you (not you specifically, Dan) take? 
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For the price he's going I'll just take the field  :P

Ok, not really fair, but I could legitimately grab Howard AND Njoku and have startup auction money left over. That's just how expensive he is. And I know... Brate/Cleveland... but this is dynasty we're talking about here. Talent usually wins out. 

 
FF Ninja said:
For the price he's going I'll just take the field  :P

Ok, not really fair, but I could legitimately grab Howard AND Njoku and have startup auction money left over. That's just how expensive he is. And I know... Brate/Cleveland... but this is dynasty we're talking about here. Talent usually wins out. 
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If that's true then I would prefer that as well. Just because you double your chances of landing a startable TE. 

I've never done an auction dynasty start up, so I can only go off of my redraft strategy... I've never been one to pick Gronk or Kelce round 1/2... the earliest I will take a TE is round 3 but even this year I would consider waiting until much later. The talent is deep. In dynasty, there is some usable talent much later. And in auction you have a shot at everyone. I would certainly let someone else blow their cap on Engram and go with Njoku. Engram may be the TE1 in 3 years and the other 2 flame out, but that would be a risk I would be willing to take. 

I'm thankful I was able to land Engram in a trade and hopefully not worry about TE for a long time. 

 
FF Ninja said:
For the price he's going I'll just take the field  :P

Ok, not really fair, but I could legitimately grab Howard AND Njoku and have startup auction money left over. That's just how expensive he is. And I know... Brate/Cleveland... but this is dynasty we're talking about here. Talent usually wins out. 
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You didn't really answer the question. 

 
The whole “I can spend less on Howard and Njoku than on Engram” seems to be disregarding the cost of the extra roster spot.  

Part of the value of paying up for Engram is not having to fill another spot or two with flyer TEs, and being able to use them on potential breakouts at higher-trade-value positions.

 
FF Ninja said:
I don't really have an answer. I don't know who to rank at #4. But I do know who I'll pay what price for and right now the rent is too damn high for Engram. 
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That says absolutely nothing about him as a player. Let's say you're at the fantasy store, where everything is the same price. You're on line at the TE counter. The first guy takes Kelce, next goes Ertz. You're up. Who ya taking?

And it's the dynasty store.

 
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Dr. Dan said:
So this discussion I do like. A rookie with 700 yards on 115 targets is kind of frustrating. If we stay away from the WR comparison (because that's just ridiculous), and stick with the Ertz comparison (because that is a more fair comparison), he had 110 targets and 824 yards in 2017. He averages 7.7 yards per target to Engram's 6.2. By all accounts, Engram has to get better with his catch rate if those targets remain. 

I think it would be interesting to go back to game logs without OBJ and see how the targets were distributed. In the end, however, I don't think anyone needs to be concerned about targets decreasing much 

Consider this: Last year was Eli's least number of attempts since OBJ joined the team, by about 35 attempts on average. So one could say there are more attempts left on the table from the 2017 team for the 2018 team. 

Let's say Eli throws below average for attempts in the OBJ days and only throws 600 attempts
OBJ gets 180 targets (career high), then Shepard gets 100 (close to 2016), Barkley 130 (what Vereen, Gallman, and Darkwa got last year)
Let's say Roger Lewis gets 50 as the WR3
even if you throw in another 40-50 for random Wr4/TE2/RB2-3 targets... we are still left with ~100 unaccounted targets that likely go to Engram. And that's assuming career high for OBJ and a below average year in attempts by Manning in the OBJ era. 

I think Engram is a lock for at least 100 targets even if he is 3rd or 4th man in the pecking order
Will Tye, for crying out loud, had 70 targets in 2016. Engram is a much better receiver than Will Tye. 
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Average pass attempts during the OBJ era doesn't seem very relevant to the Pat Shurmer era.

And the Giants only had 394 rushing attempts in 2017, ranking 25th in the NFL. They didn't draft Barkley to maintain that pace.

 
FF Ninja said:
Hardly. Have you seen his startup prices? He's going for over twice the price of his fellow 2017 rookies. I'm not saying I don't understand why that is happening, but simply pointing out that he's definitely not underrated at this point. 
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 He should be a top 10 dynasty pick in a start ups imo. No one has him ranked that high. You can build your dynasty team around him. 

 
Chaka said:
Average pass attempts during the OBJ era doesn't seem very relevant to the Pat Shurmer era.

And the Giants only had 394 rushing attempts in 2017, ranking 25th in the NFL. They didn't draft Barkley to maintain that pace.
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true. if eli is to last at all they will likely be trying to take pressure off of him. he's always targeted the rb a lot so idk how Barkley takes pressure away from eli... maybe more rushes and less passes, but a lot more goes into that than just drafting a rb

 
Dr. Dan said:
true. if eli is to last at all they will likely be trying to take pressure off of him. he's always targeted the rb a lot so idk how Barkley takes pressure away from eli... maybe more rushes and less passes, but a lot more goes into that than just drafting a rb
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25 in the league in rushing attempts. I am certain, beyond doubt, that Barkley was drafted with the intention of changing that metric.

So, yes, more rushing at the expense of pass attempts.

 
Chaka said:
25 in the league in rushing attempts. I am certain, beyond doubt, that Barkley was drafted with the intention of changing that metric.

So, yes, more rushing at the expense of pass attempts.
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Hi @Chaka  Tried to send you a PM but it says you're not accepting them. Can you please send me an email at Bryant@footballguys.com  Thanks

 
“What I've learned at #GiantsCamp thread: 1. Evan Engram has been the best offensive player on the field. He was also the best in spring practices. He is also being used on different route depths + all over the formation. He was lined up on one play as the Z with 3 WRs trips left.”

Dan Schneier, Giants reporter dude. 

 
He's the next great TE guys. Not sure you can get him but you should try to trade for him. 

 
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Evan Engram (concussion) participated in Monday's practice.

He appeared to be limited, but any work is a good sign heading into the season opener. The Jaguars are not a good matchup for any receiving option, but they were not as dominant against tight ends last season. Engram will be a solid top-eight option if he suits up.

Source: Dan Duggan on Twitter 

Sep 3 - 11:12 AM
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(RotoWire) Engram (ankle) was a limited participant at Wednesday's practice.

Analysis: Engram wasn't listed on the injury report last week and didn't seem to have any issues while posting a 7-67-1 receiving line on seven targets in Sunday's 20-13 loss to the Cowboys. In fact, he did most of his damage late in the fourth quarter when the Giants scored 10 points in garbage time.
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Love Engram in PPR. Eli Manning's offensive line is garbage. So bad that Saquan Barkley had 14 receptions last week.

Traditionally the TE is supposed to be the safety valve. So I'm thinking we see a few weeks where he gets a ton of cheap dumpoffs like Barkley got this week.

Plus, I don't see the Giants winning many games. So you know they're passing. Love the upside.

 
Adam Schefter‏ @AdamSchefter 12m12 minutes ago

Giants' TE Evan Engram sprained his MCL and will be considered week to week, per source.

 
squistion said:
Adam Schefter‏ @AdamSchefter 12m12 minutes ago

Giants' TE Evan Engram sprained his MCL and will be considered week to week, per source.
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They can be a 2-4 week thing, depends on the player.

 
Tempted to drop him out right. I'm already carrying Kittle in my starting lineup, with Alshon, J. Gordon, and Fournette competing over my IR spot in a short bench league.

Engram was almost invisible Week 1, same for Week 2 until the last garbage time drive of the game, and now an injury that might keep him out a month.

Assuming worst case scenario being four weeks, what are the chances they bring him back Week 8 with the bye week right around the corner? Is he really worth carrying on your bench for the next six weeks (again, assuming the worst case scenario)?

 
Moonshine said:
Tempted to drop him out right. I'm already carrying Kittle in my starting lineup, with Alshon, J. Gordon, and Fournette competing over my IR spot in a short bench league.

Engram was almost invisible Week 1, same for Week 2 until the last garbage time drive of the game, and now an injury that might keep him out a month.

Assuming worst case scenario being four weeks, what are the chances they bring him back Week 8 with the bye week right around the corner? Is he really worth carrying on your bench for the next six weeks (again, assuming the worst case scenario)?
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I'm in a very short bench best ball league where we can only have and must have 2 TE's. I've got Engram and Ebron. Wondering if I should just dump him for Goeddert...

 
NFL Network's reports Evan Engram (MCL sprain) is expected to miss 2-4 weeks.

This fall in line with what was expected. Engram will miss at least one game, and retuning in two weeks would be a best case scenario. It's still good news given how quickly Engram was ruled out Sunday. Rhett Ellison will step into an every-down role with Engram sidelined, with Garrett Dickerson a candidate to play in pass situations.

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter 

Sep 26 - 11:30 AM
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I think NYG have week 7 bye, which means we can probably expect Engram to miss weeks 4,5 & 6 and return week 8.  Need to double check their bye week though.

 
gianmarco said:
Week 9.
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Thanks for the correction.  That sucks, I can see them keeping him out until after the bye.  All these new rules practically force defenders to aim for the knees. I saw the play he got hurt on and that's exactly what happened, defender dove at his knees.

 
Evan Engram (knee) was seen running and doing some light-cutting off to the side of practice Saturday.

It's notable progress for Engram, who hasn't been able to participate in team activities since spraining his MCL two weeks ago. This update entails his return isn't too far off. Given time restraints, Engram will likely sit out in the Giants' upcoming short week against the Eagles on Thursday night, but could potentially be active in the club's following game.

Source: Jordan Raanan on Twitter 

Oct 6 - 9:39 AM
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Dr. Dan said:
crazy
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Yeah it is, but, we don't have IR and those teams need to fill spots with viable candidates, it seems. We have short benches for our league, so I guess I can see. And I can't talk crap about our league as I'm in ninth place head-to-head and tenth in points. It's ugly, but I'm only ten points behind a playoff qualifier if I can win head-to-head. 

 
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