TE Oronde Gadsden II, LAC (3 Viewers)

[Faust]

Chargers rave as Gadsden's breakout continues in Week 8 win

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Excited to have picked him up for nothing and started him this week, but not completely sold on sure TE1. They aren't going to throw anywhere near the 55 times they did last week. Tonight was less than half that and is more in line with Harbaugh and his run-heavy offense. Tonight's line is much more likely and could have easily been 4/37 instead of 5/77. Still like him better than Fannin not as a player but because of his situation with a good QB and not Cleveland in general. Just trying to have realistic expectations.

To be fair, they have completely abandoned Harbaugh's run heavy approach this year.

The Chargers are 5th in the NFL in pass ratio. And that is with Herbert scrambling far more than any of the teams ranked above him. On dropback ratio (called pass plays) they are probably 1st or 2nd in the entire league. Not just from one game but pretty consistently all year.

Harbaugh's tendencies cropping back up are always a looming concern, but it seems that he's clearly decided this year that the way to win is through Herbert rather than running/defense like in years past. Even this week where they ran more that was mostly because they had a huge lead and were in burn clock mode in the 2nd half.

 

[LawFitz]

Chargers rave as Gadsden's breakout continues in Week 8 win

"As soon as he got here in camp, we knew he was going to be pretty good," quarterback Justin Herbert said. "He made a ton of plays, picked up the offense really quickly and just found a way to get open, and that's what he did tonight. And we're definitely going to get him the ball as much as we can because good things happen when he gets it."

 

[tsc]

Excited to have picked him up for nothing and started him this week, but not completely sold on sure TE1. They aren't going to throw anywhere near the 55 times they did last week. Tonight was less than half that and is more in line with Harbaugh and his run-heavy offense. Tonight's line is much more likely and could have easily been 4/37 instead of 5/77. Still like him better than Fannin not as a player but because of his situation with a good QB and not Cleveland in general. Just trying to have realistic expectations.

Jake Ferguson is the #1 TE in .5 PPR. In 3 of his 7 games, he has fewer than 37 receiving yards, and an average of 5 catches in those games.

McBride and Warren, the #2 and #3 TEs, both have two games in the low 40s for rec yards.

Obviously we don't know what Gadsden is in full, but not sure I'd penalize him for a (theoretical) game like this.

Excited to have picked him up for nothing and started him this week, but not completely sold on sure TE1. They aren't going to throw anywhere near the 55 times they did last week. Tonight was less than half that and is more in line with Harbaugh and his run-heavy offense. Tonight's line is much more likely and could have easily been 4/37 instead of 5/77. Still like him better than Fannin not as a player but because of his situation with a good QB and not Cleveland in general. Just trying to have realistic expectations.

The opposite argument could easily be made. He put up 5/77 with a TD in the first half. The game was a blowout and no need to pass in the second half. Could have been much much better numbers if the game was competitive. I'm not sure Harbaugh is as run-heavy this year. Haven't really looked at the numbers though.

Excited to have picked him up for nothing and started him this week, but not completely sold on sure TE1. They aren't going to throw anywhere near the 55 times they did last week. Tonight was less than half that and is more in line with Harbaugh and his run-heavy offense. Tonight's line is much more likely and could have easily been 4/37 instead of 5/77. Still like him better than Fannin not as a player but because of his situation with a good QB and not Cleveland in general. Just trying to have realistic expectations.

To be fair, they have completely abandoned Harbaugh's run heavy approach this year.

The Chargers are 5th in the NFL in pass ratio. And that is with Herbert scrambling far more than any of the teams ranked above him. On dropback ratio (called pass plays) they are probably 1st or 2nd in the entire league. Not just from one game but pretty consistently all year.

Harbaugh's tendencies cropping back up are always a looming concern, but it seems that he's clearly decided this year that the way to win is through Herbert rather than running/defense like in years past. Even this week where they ran more that was mostly because they had a huge lead and were in burn clock mode in the 2nd half.

Not penalizing. Great output and I started him. As for the run-heavy argument, I had to take a look at attempts this year. Take away this game, Herbert was leading the league in passes. He might still be after this week. He also had three games in the 20s for attempts. Still, point well taken.

As someone who drafted Bowers and has been rolling out Fannin (can't complain too much), happy to have him. Maybe a little bit of trying to temper my own excitement here, but wanted to throw out the downside argument to spawn this discussion. I'm actually more excited after taking a look at the attempts, with the likelihood that at least some games are going to be low volume and have to hope he gets his early.

 

[Faust]

Underdog NFL
Current receiving yardage leaders among rookie TEs:

1. Tyler Warren (439)
2. Oronde Gadsden II (385)
3. Harold Fannin (290)

Gadsden has played in 1.5 fewer games than the others.

https://x.com/underdognfl/status/1981538372842913933?s=61

 

[Faust]

Kris Rhim
Tight end Oronde Gadsden II is the first rookie TE since Mike Ditka in 1961 with 240 Rec yds and 2 Rec TD in a 2-game span.

https://x.com/krisrhim1/status/1981554225793683596?s=61

 

[Faust]

John Daigle
Oronde Gadsden’s weekly route participation, per PFF:

3. 29%
4. 50%
5. 61%
6. 82%
7. 79%
8. 94%

https://x.com/notjdaigle/status/1981565893025894429?s=61

 

[-OZ-]

I started him over George kittle this week
Mostly because of Deandre swift is out, I’ll probably have to start kittle at flex due to bye weeks, Ridley stinking, and having no faith in Keon Coleman.

"Have to start Kittle"? Think about that for a moment. I wouldn't let his usage in his first game back last week deter me going forward.

It’s not a horrible thing but I’d prefer to have seen him get involved last week.

 

[Football Jones]

Harbaugh may be old-school, but he's not a dummy. Herbert is a franchise QB so I don't believe Harbaugh is too stubborn to change his MO if it'll put more points on the board.

Once Gadsden started getting the vast majority of snaps, it was only a matter of time. It's just about the perfect situation with a top QB and no dawg at WR. That prescription can produce a big-time FF TE with the right guy.

Gadsden really looks the part. Up to 250 from about 235, he's fortunate to have the right frame and genetics to add weight without negative effects. Purposefully gaining 15 pounds hardly ever works out, but Gadsden doesn't seem to have lost any speed or quickness and the added weight will help his blocking.

Gadsden is on the verge of becoming a stud. He's not a lock, but it's looking pretty good.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

As someone who drafted Bowers and has been rolling out Fannin (can't complain too much), happy to have him. Maybe a little bit of trying to temper my own excitement here, but wanted to throw out the downside argument to spawn this discussion. I'm actually more excited after taking a look at the attempts, with the likelihood that at least some games are going to be low volume and have to hope he gets his early.

For sure, there is definitely plenty of downside risk. It is completely plausible that this all ends up being a flash in the pan as it has for many guys before. Heck, even on the Chargers themselves it wasn't but a month ago that this offense ran through QJ and Keenan Allen. Now they are afterthoughts and it's all Orande and Ladd. In another month it could be Tre Harris dominating targets, or back to QJ/KA.

That said, I think all of that is baked into his value. He's still valued as a guy that has that risk. He'd probably go for a 1st in FFPC (TE Prem). That's a good chunk of change but still low for a 22 year old top TE in FFPC, so people are still worried about the risk before valuing him as that.

I agree with @Football Jones that I am not too worried about them changing their identity back to running/defense. Harbaugh has historically preferred that but I think he's realized that utilizing his best player in Herbert is going to be his best path to winning games this year.

 

[Footballdaz]

Excited to have picked him up for nothing and started him this week, but not completely sold on sure TE1. They aren't going to throw anywhere near the 55 times they did last week. Tonight was less than half that and is more in line with Harbaugh and his run-heavy offense. Tonight's line is much more likely and could have easily been 4/37 instead of 5/77. Still like him better than Fannin not as a player but because of his situation with a good QB and not Cleveland in general. Just trying to have realistic expectations.

Jake Ferguson is the #1 TE in .5 PPR. In 3 of his 7 games, he has fewer than 37 receiving yards, and an average of 5 catches in those games.

McBride and Warren, the #2 and #3 TEs, both have two games in the low 40s for rec yards.

Obviously we don't know what Gadsden is in full, but not sure I'd penalize him for a (theoretical) game like this.

Excited to have picked him up for nothing and started him this week, but not completely sold on sure TE1. They aren't going to throw anywhere near the 55 times they did last week. Tonight was less than half that and is more in line with Harbaugh and his run-heavy offense. Tonight's line is much more likely and could have easily been 4/37 instead of 5/77. Still like him better than Fannin not as a player but because of his situation with a good QB and not Cleveland in general. Just trying to have realistic expectations.

The opposite argument could easily be made. He put up 5/77 with a TD in the first half. The game was a blowout and no need to pass in the second half. Could have been much much better numbers if the game was competitive. I'm not sure Harbaugh is as run-heavy this year. Haven't really looked at the numbers though.

Excited to have picked him up for nothing and started him this week, but not completely sold on sure TE1. They aren't going to throw anywhere near the 55 times they did last week. Tonight was less than half that and is more in line with Harbaugh and his run-heavy offense. Tonight's line is much more likely and could have easily been 4/37 instead of 5/77. Still like him better than Fannin not as a player but because of his situation with a good QB and not Cleveland in general. Just trying to have realistic expectations.

To be fair, they have completely abandoned Harbaugh's run heavy approach this year.

The Chargers are 5th in the NFL in pass ratio. And that is with Herbert scrambling far more than any of the teams ranked above him. On dropback ratio (called pass plays) they are probably 1st or 2nd in the entire league. Not just from one game but pretty consistently all year.

Harbaugh's tendencies cropping back up are always a looming concern, but it seems that he's clearly decided this year that the way to win is through Herbert rather than running/defense like in years past. Even this week where they ran more that was mostly because they had a huge lead and were in burn clock mode in the 2nd half.

Not penalizing. Great output and I started him. As for the run-heavy argument, I had to take a look at attempts this year. Take away this game, Herbert was leading the league in passes. He might still be after this week. He also had three games in the 20s for attempts. Still, point well taken.

As someone who drafted Bowers and has been rolling out Fannin (can't complain too much), happy to have him. Maybe a little bit of trying to temper my own excitement here, but wanted to throw out the downside argument to spawn this discussion. I'm actually more excited after taking a look at the attempts, with the likelihood that at least some games are going to be low volume and have to hope he gets his early.

I have same issue, Bowers and starting Fannin,then grabbed Gadsden 2 weeks ago for JJ.

Starting my new toy again next week along with a healthy Bowers hopefully. Guess Fannin goes to bench or other flex spot when Bowers is back..

 

[rockaction]

In another month it could be Tre Harris dominating targets, or back to QJ/KA

This took my breath away a little bit. Can we keep it on Ladd and Oronde?

Harbaugh has historically preferred that but I think he's realized that utilizing his best player in Herbert is going to be his best path to winning games this year.

Yep. I think this is totally right and quoted it with three affirmatives: they came out throwing this year, Harbaugh's pressers about Justin Herbert are entertaining theater because of how Jim talks about his pal and hero Justin, and they just seem to pass at a rate that is so far above expectation (I'll have to check last night, and frankly, other nights because they did run quite a bit in what seemed like neutral situations last night) that I think it'll stick unless personnel or opponent radically change.

 

[LawFitz]

First half last night, he turned into The Great Gatsden. More of that please, Chargers.

 

[*****]

The fretting above about Harbaugh’s tendencies is, respectfully, off base. As a devoted UM fan and close observer of Harbaugh for a decade, his offenses have three features: establishing the run, using a fullback more than others, and throwing to TEs (especially up the seam). Jake Butt, Erik All, Colston and even now UM’s Marlin Klein…all part of the Harbaugh emphasis on TEs.

 

[tsc]

The fretting above about Harbaugh’s tendencies is, respectfully, off base. As a devoted UM fan and close observer of Harbaugh for a decade, his offenses have three features: establishing the run, using a fullback more than others, and throwing to TEs (especially up the seam). Jake Butt, Erik All, Colston and even now UM’s Marlin Klein…all part of the Harbaugh emphasis on TEs.

Fretting less after seeing this, particularly the TE emphasis. Thanks!

 

[JohnnyU]

The fretting above about Harbaugh’s tendencies is, respectfully, off base. As a devoted UM fan and close observer of Harbaugh for a decade, his offenses have three features: establishing the run, using a fullback more than others, and throwing to TEs (especially up the seam). Jake Butt, Erik All, Colston and even now UM’s Marlin Klein…all part of the Harbaugh emphasis on TEs.

I try and not to fret about fantasy football. I use fantasy football to get me away from real things to fret about.

 

[Tau837]

Chargers rave as Gadsden's breakout continues in Week 8 win

"As soon as he got here in camp, we knew he was going to be pretty good," quarterback Justin Herbert said. "He made a ton of plays, picked up the offense really quickly and just found a way to get open, and that's what he did tonight. And we're definitely going to get him the ball as much as we can because good things happen when he gets it."

In fairness, Herbert says the same kind of thing about every teammate he is asked about.

 

[Footballdaz]

Chargers rave as Gadsden's breakout continues in Week 8 win

"As soon as he got here in camp, we knew he was going to be pretty good," quarterback Justin Herbert said. "He made a ton of plays, picked up the offense really quickly and just found a way to get open, and that's what he did tonight. And we're definitely going to get him the ball as much as we can because good things happen when he gets it."

In fairness, Herbert says the same kind of thing about every teammate he is asked about.

He ain't NEVER said that about Johnston lol

 

[Tau837]

Chargers rave as Gadsden's breakout continues in Week 8 win

"As soon as he got here in camp, we knew he was going to be pretty good," quarterback Justin Herbert said. "He made a ton of plays, picked up the offense really quickly and just found a way to get open, and that's what he did tonight. And we're definitely going to get him the ball as much as we can because good things happen when he gets it."

In fairness, Herbert says the same kind of thing about every teammate he is asked about.

He ain't NEVER said that about Johnston lol

Google immediately found these quotes by Herbert about Johnston:

• On his competitive spirit:
  "He's a fighter... I'm gonna keep throwing him the ball. That's what we did out there. ... He's a truly great teammate, great guy. And he's gonna go make some plays".
  
  
• On his future:
  "He's young, but he's going to be something special" and "He's a playmaker. He's done an incredible job all year".
  
  
• After a difficult game:
  "He's a fighter... He's an incredible player. We're gonna keep throwing him the ball".
  
  
• On his offseason work:
  "He's been incredible... He's one of those guys I'm going to get the ball to as much as possible. He's athletically gifted, he's smart, and he's a competitor. He wants to win, he wants to be the best, and he's on his way".
  
  
• On his early development:
  "Yeah he's he's playing confidently... you know he's a guy that's going to make a bunch of plays for us and he's had three great years and and I'm going to find ways to get into the ball".

 

[Football Jones]

Harbaugh supposedly mentioned Gadsden is starting to get double-teamed. I haven't looked at the replay, but that's a lot of respect for a 5th round rookie TE.

I heard it online. Can anyone confirm that? I don't know if it was said in the post game press conference or what.

 

[massraider]

Has anyone pointed out that it took 61 passes by Herbert to get to this point? Feels like an outlier week.

Bug Fan of the athlete, arrow pointing up, looks great in dynasty, all that. But I dunno if this apple ready to be picked for starting lineups yet.

Signed,

Guy Starting Fannin Since Week 2

Whiffffff

 

[rockaction]

In another month it could be Tre Harris dominating targets, or back to QJ/KA

This took my breath away a little bit. Can we keep it on Ladd and Oronde?

Harbaugh has historically preferred that but I think he's realized that utilizing his best player in Herbert is going to be his best path to winning games this year.

Yep. I think this is totally right and quoted it with three affirmatives: they came out throwing this year, Harbaugh's pressers about Justin Herbert are entertaining theater because of how Jim talks about his pal and hero Justin, and they just seem to pass at a rate that is so far above expectation (I'll have to check last night, and frankly, other nights because they did run quite a bit in what seemed like neutral situations last night) that I think it'll stick unless personnel or opponent radically change.

And then I read an analyst I subscribe to who is really, really good who doesn't think so and sees a possible Harbaugh/Roman pivot when Hampton comes back or as Vidal continues given what transpired in MN.

So don't listen to me because I don't know where their heads are. It's why I don't like TE as a position in general and use capital elsewhere.

 

[Faust]

Steven Haglund
According to ESPN’s open, catch, and YAC tracking, #Chargers TE Oronde Gadsden II is the 2nd best TE in the league.

https://x.com/stevenihaglund/status/1983283898093379848?s=61

 

[calcinorjones]

Are we pumped for this week? Lot of attention last week. Maybe its the TE appreciation hangover? Perhaps its the Titans and possibly a big running game again for LAC second half?

 

[Faust]

Hayden Winks
Oronde Gadsden led the Chargers in receiving again (68 yards).

https://x.com/haydenwinks/status/1985089572284534832?s=61

 

[Faust]

David J. Gautieri
Oronde Gadsden II’s current 17-game pace (1,100 yards) would place him 2nd all-time amongst rookie TE’s – behind only Brock Bowers (1,194).

https://x.com/gurufantasywrld/status/1985359702390145086?s=61

 

[RaidersAreOne]

Is this dude a top 6 TE ROS? TE is such a trainwreck and I may make a move for him.

Tough to gauge his value atm.

 

[Doubles]

Is this dude a top 6 TE ROS? TE is such a trainwreck and I may make a move for him.

Tough to gauge his value atm.

I’m trying to move Warren for him and someone else. Trying to see how that manager values him.

 

[Skolpnw]

Is this dude a top 6 TE ROS? TE is such a trainwreck and I may make a move for him.

Tough to gauge his value atm.

I’m trying to move Warren for him and someone else. Trying to see how that manager values him.

I drafted Warren and picked up Gadsden from the wire.

I'm not a clever man, but felt confident enough in Gadsden to trade away Warren for an upgrade elsewhere. I'm sure Warren will be great ROS, but he has a terrible schedule for TEs and while the colts are undoubtedly good, I doubt if they're as historically great as their start of the season was.

Person who I traded Warren to wasn't interested in Gadsden for what it's worth.

 

[Chaka]

Thinking about dropping BTJ or Jakobi for him.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

David J. Gautieri
Oronde Gadsden II’s current 17-game pace (1,100 yards)

Isn’t this sort of a big deal? Shouldn’t it be?

 

[LawFitz]

David J. Gautieri
Oronde Gadsden II’s current 17-game pace (1,100 yards)

Isn’t this sort of a big deal? Shouldn’t it be?

Especially considering he was an afterthought for the Chargers offense for the first half of that extrapolation.

 

[Grahamburn]

David J. Gautieri
Oronde Gadsden II’s current 17-game pace (1,100 yards)

Isn’t this sort of a big deal? Shouldn’t it be?

That’s the thing with 17 games though. When/if you play that many the numbers tend to even out.

Herbert looks for him though and he’s getting consistent snaps. These last several weeks aren’t a “fluke” in that sense. Over 75% four weeks in a row and a high of 80% last week.

 

[LawFitz]

That’s the thing with 17 games though. When/if you play that many the numbers tend to even out.

Generally agree, but when you have a genuine breakout case, this doesn't apply the same way. There is risk of course, that a breakout isn't real, but if it is, the more relevant data gonna be in post-breakout metrics.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

The biggest telltale sign for me is usage over the season. He started out with zero snaps in weeks 1 and 2. In week 3-5 he was slowly introduced to the offense with 24-54% snap count. As he got more comfortable that increased into the 70-80% range from week 6-9. The staff was getting comfortable with him on the field and he's responded by making it difficult for him to be taken off the field. Who knows what the rest of the season brings, but I'm going after him in every league possible where I can get him for less than a 1st or with a couple role players.

 

[pollardsvision]

Any concerns with the Alt injury?

Obviously it's generally not good for the Chargers offense overall, but any worries about him needing to block more?

 

[Tau837]

Any concerns with the Alt injury?

Obviously it's generally not good for the Chargers offense overall, but any worries about him needing to block more?

I doubt they will have Gadsden block more, at least by a non-trivial amount. But it could result in fewer snaps for him because they want to have TE Fisk (good blocker, 285 lbs) and/or a 6th OL on the field more. That implies fewer routes and possibly fewer targets.

 

[bolzano]

I saw that he left with a knee injury and had a Q tag. Did he come back in?

 

[Gr00vus]

I saw that he left with a knee injury and had a Q tag. Did he come back in?

He did not. Can't find any additional news on him right now.

 

[LawFitz]

Injuries this year

 

[The Kerminator]

This is the best info I found

Not much but hopefully just a bruise

 

[Payne]

It sure didn't look like much. I'm just hoping they played it safe due to the score.

 

[RaidersAreOne]

Undergoing an MRI.

 

[Bad_Mo2]

It sure didn't look like much. I'm just hoping they played it safe due to the score.

Hopefully. He was having a good game and likely would have had 8-9 catches if that didn't happen.

 

[JohnnyU]

Undergoing an MRI.

 

[Proteus]

I just traded for him before this game so expect the worst.

And if his injury is nothing, expect him to smoke a PCP laced joint, hijack a bus filled with underage Russian hookers, and drive it through an orphanage.

 

[mjb03003]

Hopefully. He was having a good game and likely would have had 8-9 catches if that didn't happen.

I love Gadsden but he wasn’t having a very good game before leaving (midway through the 3rd quarter) with injury. Had had 3 catches for 13 yards and had at least two drops.

 

[Chaka]

Hopefully. He was having a good game and likely would have had 8-9 catches if that didn't happen.

I love Gadsden but he wasn’t having a very good game before leaving (midway through the 3rd quarter) with injury. Had had 3 catches for 13 yards and had at least two drops.

On the flip side, despite missing 1.5 quarters he was 2nd on the team in targets with 6.

 

[Gally]

Hopefully. He was having a good game and likely would have had 8-9 catches if that didn't happen.

I love Gadsden but he wasn’t having a very good game before leaving (midway through the 3rd quarter) with injury. Had had 3 catches for 13 yards and had at least two drops.

On the flip side, despite missing 1.5 quarters he was 2nd on the team in targets with 6.

I needed another catch for 7 yds to get me a win. Now I have to relay on an IDP to get a few tackles for the win. If he didn't have those drops I would have been fine. Ugh.

 

[Gally]

It sure didn't look like much. I'm just hoping they played it safe due to the score.

Looked more like he took a knee to the thigh but could have Hyperextended the knee a bit because of the contact. Didn't look too bad but who knows?