Team X Chess thread (3 Viewers)

[pizzatyme]

Qe3 is no good as QxQ fxe3 Rc3 and we lose a pawn. Even Kf2 doesn't help as Bh6.

 

[nysfl2]

After Bh6, Bxf6 is open, which is a trade that I would make.

But, the stacking of the pawns is probably enough of a disincentive by itself to not go Qe3.

 

[nysfl2]

I don't have a problem with Rc1, if you don't want to move the knight yet

 

[pizzatyme]

I still say Rac1 with the intention that we exchange off rooks and eventually get the Q to c1 which opens up Nd2 then Nc4.

If they go RxR we also go RxR and take control of the c file. If they refuse the exchange, we go RxR then they take back and we move the other Rc1.

Point is to get control of the C since we have more firepower there.

 

[pizzatyme]

I don't have a problem with Rc1, if you don't want to move the knight yet

I think we get it there in time after clearing the board. It will only make the N stronger.

 

[nysfl2]

I don't have a problem with Rc1, if you don't want to move the knight yet

I think we get it there in time after clearing the board. It will only make the N stronger.

Sounds good - make it happen!

 

[pizzatyme]

I don't have a problem with Rc1, if you don't want to move the knight yet

I think we get it there in time after clearing the board. It will only make the N stronger.

Sounds good - make it happen!

I'll let Sand know when he gets back from the john. Ha!

 

[Sand]

I don't have a problem with Rc1, if you don't want to move the knight yet

I think we get it there in time after clearing the board. It will only make the N stronger.

Sounds good - make it happen!

I'll let Sand know when he gets back from the john. Ha!

Too busy trading jibes with kutta:

Hmmm. Is team x struggling a bit? How's the mood over there now?

In our black game excellent - we spent a while thinking about that last move as there were several devastating options at our disposal. You just got that move, BTW (Be7).

In our white game still too close to call. Very even, but still very early. We just turned our attention to that one after the black move. I figure the scorched earth starts about move 20.

Sorry, tonight is bike ride night. And I had to work this afternoon, so am behind. Made the Be7 move. Reviewing the current talk here.

 

[Sand]

I don't have a problem with Rc1, if you don't want to move the knight yet

I think we get it there in time after clearing the board. It will only make the N stronger.

Sounds good - make it happen!

K - I'm read up. Making this one. Rac1.

 

[spOOfy]

What moves have we made. On biz trip and only couple hrs left to move. 1st page still has their moves I think

 

[pizzatyme]

Our last moves:

White

Rac1

Black

Be7

 

[Sand]

Our last moves:

White

Rac1

Black

Be7

I updated.

Predictions? I expect in our white game to see Rc5. Black game Nd6+.

 

[pizzatyme]

Sand,

I could see both of these. If so, I like our responses.

RxR

And Bxd6

The more pieces we get off the board as black, the better.

And in the white game, if they take QxR, we respond with Rc1 and they give up the c file.

 

[Sand]

Sand,

I could see both of these. If so, I like our responses.

RxR

And Bxd6

The more pieces we get off the board as black, the better.

And in the white game, if they take QxR, we respond with Rc1 and they give up the c file.

I was wrong on Rc5 - they moved Rxc1. Obvious response is Rxc1. Kinda surprised they didn't move Rc5 - that would have given them the opportunity for a pass pawn, which is always pretty dangerous.

I don't like Qxc1 much as it would cede control of the c column pretty quick. And I like the pressure the Q has on a5.

1 vote Rxc1.

 

[pizzatyme]

I second Rxc1. Easy call here.

 

[Sand]

I second Rxc1. Easy call here.

I'm gonna give this through lunch. If no other responses I am going to make the move. It is the only real choice, IMHO. I don't think I'll get too much flak for a quick move here.

And I was, of course, wrong about the second move. They moved Bh5. That was the other move I thought was possible from them and almost posted that. In the long run I think Nd6+ was better for them. We've gone through some of the possibilities, but candidate moves are f7, f6, Nc5, Bc5, O-O. Need to step through these pretty close, as we are in crunch time in this one.

Still, they have to be looking at the pawn on a6 and ####ting bricks.

I'm headed over to PM kutta and throw a bit of smack around. Otello is no fun, and his box is always full.

 

[Sand]

And I was, of course, wrong about the second move. They moved Bh5. That was the other move I thought was possible from them and almost posted that. In the long run I think Nd6+ was better for them. We've gone through some of the possibilities, but candidate moves are f7, f6, Nc5, Bc5, O-O. Need to step through these pretty close, as we are in crunch time in this one.

Looking through these f7 and f6 are out as the pawn is pinned. Bc5 is out as it doesn't require an immediate response (and doesn't alter their plans of loading up the f column). I believe Nc5 is out due to:

Nc5

NxN BxN

Rf3 O-O

O-O and we're in trouble. The take and retake cost us a tempo we really need.

In my mind the only real choice is O-O:

O-O

O-O f5 our f5 requires a response or they lose the knight. No real sacrifice opportunity as then they lose the opportunity to clear the f pawn). Anyone see a better white response than:

exf6 Bxf6 The N taking is an error (Edit: wrong - as noted below.)

Rf3 Kg2 then what? Be5 doesn't work for them. Maybe Nd6?

Nd6 Bd4+ and we trade rooks

Or, as I see this, we're in trouble:

O-O

O-O f5

exf6 Bxf6

Rf3 Kg2

NxB NxN and we're in trouble as he moves Be4 and we're pinned.

Or maybe:

O-O

O-O f5

exf6 Nxf6

Rf3 Nd7 And we have adequate protection, I think. Perhaps Nxf6 is the best move. Sorry, writing as I think here.

 

[Sand]

The smack floweth:

Thanks for the moves. Good timing, as we can get ours done before the weekend. Nothing unexpected, of course.So, when I open up your white game my eyes always track over to a6 and note how alone that pass pawn is and figure you guys must be ####ting bricks every time you see that. So, are you ####ting bricks yet? Inquiring minds want to know.

Believe me. This game will be over long before your little pawn has a chance to get up a full head of steam. A SWAT team storming a flop house isn't worried about the barking Maltese in the yard next door.

 

[pizzatyme]

Black

O-O

O-O f5

exf6? Nxf6 attacks N and B

NxN? RxN

RxR? BxR and I feel pretty good here.

 

[pizzatyme]

Their SWAT team must be from Reno 911

 

[Sand]

Their SWAT team must be from Reno 911

I'm so stealing that.

 

[Sand]

Black

O-O

O-O f5

exf6? Nxf6 attacks N and B

NxN? RxN

RxR? BxR and I feel pretty good here.

Rf3 Bd4+ and we can force a rook trade.

I am going to continue to look, but for now it looks like O-O is by far the best option. Vote 1.

Also, going to make the Rxc1 move. I don't see any reason not to.

 

[pizzatyme]

Seconded for castling

 

[Joe T]

I should have some time to look at black this afternoon, if you guys haven't moved before then.

 

[Sand]

More thinking here:

O-O

O-O f5

exf6 Nxf6

Nxf6 Rxf6 Bxf6 is a big mistake as Bd6 loses us a major piece

Bd6 Rxf1+

Kxf1 Bxd6

Rxd6 c5

Or

O-O

O-O f5

exf6 Nxf6

Nxf6 Rxf6 Bxf5 is a big mistake as Bd6 loses us a major piece

Rxf6 Bxf6

Rf3 Bd4+

Kh1 Ra7

 

[Sand]

I should have some time to look at black this afternoon, if you guys haven't moved before then.

We've moved in our white game, as it was obvious. Not moving on black until we get a full three signoffs. Either you or nsfl or Spoofy should have a real good look and check over the lines. I believe this is the crux right here - if their push doesn't work here we have 2 pass pawns and they crumble.

 

[pizzatyme]

Sand, I'm not following you last notation.

Please double check. After Our Bxf5 I'm not seeing the trouble.

 

[Sand]

Sand, I'm not following you last notation.

Please double check. After Our Bxf5 I'm not seeing the trouble.

It is Bxf6 (I am evidently terrible at getting the notation right) Ok:

O-O

O-O f5

exf6 Nxf6

Nxf6 Bxf6

Bd6 ??? Major disaster. We lose at least a bishop here.

Instead

Rxf6

Bd6 RxR+ and we trade off

or

Rxf6

RxR BxR

Rd6 c5

or

Rxf6

Rf3 RxR

RxR a5

Either way there we are ok. See anything else?

 

[pizzatyme]

Okay, we are on the same page.

Assuming it all plays out as expected, we go RxR on the f6 square, all threats are removed.

 

[pizzatyme]

Black

We need to consider a line for them after we O-O of:

h5 to try to open their attack on the K. Just something to look at here.

 

[pizzatyme]

Black,

Sand, I went back and looked at Nc5 for us and I'm not sure it's bad. You had a error up above in your analysis after we take Bxc5 they can't castle as the B owns the diagonal.

So:

Nc5

NxN BxN and we look pretty strong here! We keep them from castling (for now) and if they go Rf3 we just go O-O.

If they then go Rhf1, we respond with Ra7.

Once we've diffused their attack, we march the a pawn!

 

[Sand]

Black,

Sand, I went back and looked at Nc5 for us and I'm not sure it's bad. You had a error up above in your analysis after we take Bxc5 they can't castle as the B owns the diagonal.

So:

Nc5

NxN BxN and we look pretty strong here! We keep them from castling (for now) and if they go Rf3 we just go O-O.

If they then go Rhf1, we respond with Ra7.

Once we've diffused their attack, we march the a pawn!

I don't think they go NxN:

Nc5

Rf3 NxN

O-O O-O and they can then come down and wreak some havoc.

Rxf7 RxR

BxR+ Kg7

Be8 Bc5+

Kh1 Nxg3

hxg3 Ra7 Gotta look more. This doesn't look bad, to be honest.

 

[Joe T]

Sorry to back up here, but looking at all alternatives in the Black game.

Did we consider Bb7? Seems like O-O-O is better for us long term?

still looking at the lines, but thinking out loud along the way. And I don't want to waste time with it if you have already looked at it.

 

[Sand]

Sorry to back up here, but looking at all alternatives in the Black game.

Did we consider Bb7? Seems like O-O-O is better for us long term?

still looking at the lines, but thinking out loud along the way. And I don't want to waste time with it if you have already looked at it.

It was not on my list, so no. And it has potential, from my 30 second look at it - another on the list to really dig into. I'm in no hurry and have no issue with taking all three days here. So now we really have O-O, Bb7, and Rc5 on the list to really delve into. BTW, my 30 second super rough look - it may be effective in breaking the f column push:

Bb7

21.Rf3 c5

22.Nd6+ Bxd6

23.exd6Bxf3

24.gxf3 O-O-O

 

[Joe T]

There are a ton of options. Wow. I will say I'm not in love with O-O because there is so much pressure there, but will look at it more.

One Bb7 line:

Bb7

21.O-O c5

22.Nc3 Rh7

23.Rb1 O-O-O

not in love with this either however.

 

[pizzatyme]

We kill them if they don't take the N.

Nc5

Rf3? NxN

O-O? NxB and they've lost a piece.

They can't sustain an attack otherwise.

Nc5 forces the exchange of Ns. Eliminate pieces and eliminate threats.

 

[pizzatyme]

Find the faults with Nc5, guys.

 

[Joe T]

Find the faults with Nc5, guys.

I can't find any faults with it.. Looks like a quality move.

I'll keep looking, but for now I could get on board with Nc5.

 

[Joe T]

Nc5

21.Rf1 Rh7
22.Nxc5 Bxc5
??

I can't find an issue with Nc5. This looks like our worst position and its not bad. ??

 

[Joe T]

This line is not great on Nc5. We have to exchange our dark square bishop for his knight.

Nc5

21.Nd6+ Bxd6
22.Rxd6 ??Bd7

 

[pizzatyme]

Nc5

21.Rf1 Rh7

22.Nxc5 Bxc5

??

I can't find an issue with Nc5. This looks like our worst position and its not bad. ??

after Nc5, they wouldn't go Rf1 as we'd take their Rook

 

[pizzatyme]

This line is not great on Nc5. We have to exchange our dark square bishop for his knight.

Nc5

21.Nd6+ Bxd6

22.Rxd6 ??Bd7

I don't mind exchanging there as their N is active and out B is inactive at this point.

 

[Sand]

There are a ton of options. Wow. I will say I'm not in love with O-O because there is so much pressure there, but will look at it more.

One Bb7 line:

Bb7

21.O-O c5

22.Nc3 Rh7

23.Rb1 O-O-O

not in love with this either however.

O-O-O leaves us without something to protect the a pawn. And something like this doesn't look too good:

Bb721.O-O c5 22.Nd6+ Bxd623.Rxd6

 

[Sand]

This line is not great on Nc5. We have to exchange our dark square bishop for his knight.

Nc5

21.Nd6+ Bxd6

22.Rxd6 ??Bd7

I don't mind exchanging there as their N is active and out B is inactive at this point.

20.Bh5 Nc5

21.Nxc5 Bxc5

22.Rf3 O-O

23.Rhf1 Ra7

24.h4 gxh4

25.Bxh4 a5

26.Rg3+ Kh7

27.Rf6

Not great. Another line:

20.Bh5 Nc5

21.Nxc5 Bxc5

22.Rf3 O-O

23.Rhf1 Ra7

24.h4 Be7

25.hxg5 Bxg5

26.Bf4 Bxf4

27.Rxf4 a5

28.Rg4+ Kh8

29.Rf6

Still not loving this.

Back to O-O. Not liking this one:

20.Bh5 O-O

21.Rf3 f5

22.exf6 e.p.Nxf6

23.Rhf1 Nd7

24.Nf6+ Nxf6

25.Be5 Nd7

26.Bf7+:

Yuck.

Nf6+ variant:

20.Bh5 O-O

21.Rf3 Nc5

22.Nf6+ Bxf6

23.Rxf6 Ne4

24.Rf3 f5

25.exf6 e.p. Nxf6

26.Rhf1Kg7

27.Be5

Yuck.

Maybe too tired here. Lines to look at, though.

 

[pizzatyme]

Bb7

Rb3 Now what?

or

Bb7

Bxf7+ Kxf7

Rxd7 Not good!

 

[pizzatyme]

This line is not great on Nc5. We have to exchange our dark square bishop for his knight.

Nc5

21.Nd6+ Bxd6

22.Rxd6 ??Bd7

I don't mind exchanging there as their N is active and out B is inactive at this point.

20.Bh5 Nc5

21.Nxc5 Bxc5

22.Rf3 O-O

23.Rhf1 Ra7

24.h4 gxh4

25.Bxh4 a5

26.Rg3+ Kh7

27.Rf6

Not great.

Right here on move 24, I wouldn't do gxh4, I'd go a5. We have a serious mate threat if they mess around here.so:

24 h4 a5

25 hxg5? Ba6 forces rook to h1 which is important later

26 Rh1 hxg5 this looks weak on the h file and we hope they do one of 2 moves

27 Bg4 Rb8 and they should start to crap their collective pants!

or

27 Bf2 BxB

28 KxB f5 (sac this pawn to relieve pressure and we're likely to win a pawn back)

29 exf6 Rh7 (pinning the Bishop)

30 f7+? Kg7 (if they move the f3 Rook, we go Rxb7+ BxR? RxR) at this point we're up a pawn a passed pawn!

 

[pizzatyme]

Nc5

NxN BxN

Rf3 Rg7 (we don't really need to castle at this point in the game anyway)

Raf1 Ra7 Gets rid of the pressure on f7

 

[Sand]

Some more thoughts on Nc5 - in case they decide that Nd6+ is a good idea:

20.Bh5 Nc5

21.Nd6+ Bxd6

22.Rxd6 Bb7

23.O-O O-O

24.Bf2 Ne4

Looks fine.

Of course, taking with the pawn is a bad idea:

20.Bh5 Nc5

21.Nd6+ Bxd6

22.exd6 Nxd3+

23.cxd3

Nf6+ is an all around bad idea, so really their only two choices are Nd6+ or RxR. RxR looks easily the best for them. More analysis coming to pile onto what pizza has done.

 

[Sand]

While I'm now fairly convinced that Nc5 is the best move, I'm thinking about how to improve upon our line here and anticipate the worst they can respond to us:

20.Bh5 Nc5

21.Nxc5 Bxc5

22.Rf3 Ra7

23.Rhf1 Rh7

24.h4 a5

25.hxg5 Ba6

26.Rh1 hxg5

No O-O here, but it leaves us much stronger on the king side. It does limit the mobility of that rook in getting over to the B column, but it is a valid choice to think about. Now we start marching the a pawn down.

Thoughts?

As far as movement immediately goes, I do think Nc5 is the way to go now. We still have a couple days to mull it over, but perhaps we can seal this up by this afternoon.

 

[pizzatyme]

Lets also look at another line:

Bh5. Nc5

Nd6+. BxN

RxN. Ne4 this loses a pawn but it opens up the game for us.

Rxc6. NxB

hxg3. Bb7 attacking R and pawn on g2

Rc7? Bxb2

Rb1. Be4

Bxf7+. Kd8

R retreats Rf8 and then we end up a pawn and can advance the a pawn and/or attack their weak pawns.