Tebow a QB1?! That's what I heard on the audible... (2 Viewers)

[Bob Magaw]

this would be a good point to pause and define terms...

are we talking about tebow as a QB1, or in top QB tier (not that those possibilities are necessarily mutually exclusive, but those potential SETS or CATEGORIES don't necessarily have to completely ovelap, either)...

most of my leagues are 14 & 16 teamers, but perhaps more common are 10-12?

so for the sake of simplicity, lets go with 10-12 team variants as more common or representative...

now I am at a disadvantage, because i didn't hear the audible report, just trying to clarify if bloom meant QB1 in the sense of, in a 10-12 team league, if a QB is one of the top 10-12 QBs, it is fair to call that QB1 production (in a standard, non flex league, starting 2 RB & 3 WR, top 10-12 RB & WR would also be RB/WR1, 10-12 to 20-24 = RB/WR2, 20-24 to 30-36 = RB/WR3, etc.)...

if that is the case, than the tier breakdown isn't relevant... around six QBs in tier one is in the ball park to most QB tier breakdowns, but as to QB1 production, not too many people play in leagues with just six teams.

maybe this was just a big miscommunication based on an underpinning fundamental misunderstanding of terms and definitions?

would it be less objectionable to characterize tebow as likely to average going forward, as long as he starts, in top 10-12 (than top 6)?

 

[glumpy]

putting up QB1 numbers so far.

Yup. Of the starting QB's in our league games (small sample--18 so far) Tebow is #4. I played him on a whim over Romo after listening to ESPN radio Friday night.eta--agree with Bob's take above. When I answer the question I'm counting top 12 scoring QB's for a designation of QB1 since that seems to be the most common league makeup. Is he top tier? That's a different question. Last three games of last year he was top tier but that was a different offense. Time will tell this year.

 

[BassNBrew]

In 4 recent drafts Tebow went in the range of 11th to 14th QB off the board in leagues with 4 pt passing TDs.

Relative to other positions he appears to be worth a RB3 or a WR3 based on a 12 team league.

 

[Khy]

While he put up the #4 QB numbers in my league this week (baring tonights performances)... I'm still worried about his long term value. He looked AWFUL out there up until the last 5 minutes of the game. However, when he looked good he looked really solid. I'm hoping that the first 3.5 quarters of the game were him trying to get over his jitters of his first "real" chance of becoming a starting QB in this league. I started him this week and was happy at the end of the day, I have to start him next week with Ryan on a bye and I'm hoping I can be happy again after next week.

You cannot deny that Tebow can make it happen however. The kid is a baller with great fantasy potential.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Asking Tim Tebow to be a pocket passer is like asking Peyton Manning to run the zone read. As long as Foxy isn't stubborn (which is basically his signature trait - sigh) - Tebow will only go up from here as they will put him in the shotgun more and let him improvise a bit. Yes, Tebow looked horrible for the first 55 min yesterday, but that was a case of square peg-round hole. Denying that he was effective and creative in the final five minutes is just stubborn haterism. Tebow is not a terrible QB, but he is if you ask him to play the 3-5-7 step drop, read the defense and release the ball style of quarterbacking.

 

[Warrior]

Bloom was correct that he's a QB1. Bloom was absolutely wrong when saying he should only be traded for top tier, elite RB. Since when is a mid-level QB1 valued the same as a RB1?

I love the Audible, but that was a very rookie mistake akin to saying that Matt Ryan has similar value to Darren McFadden. I expect a little more from the hosts, considering that they're usually spot-on about values. That 'QB1 should only be traded for a top tier RB' comment was laughable though.

With that out of the way, at the haters saying he isn't a QB1. Does 25-30 fantasy points not make the cut in your 3 team league?

 

[Reepicheep]

Bloom was correct that he's a QB1. Bloom was absolutely wrong when saying he should only be traded for top tier, elite RB. Since when is a mid-level QB1 valued the same as a RB1?

I love the Audible, but that was a very rookie mistake akin to saying that Matt Ryan has similar value to Darren McFadden. I expect a little more from the hosts, considering that they're usually spot-on about values. That 'QB1 should only be traded for a top tier RB' comment was laughable though.

With that out of the way, at the haters saying he isn't a QB1. Does 25-30 fantasy points not make the cut in your 3 team league?

Matt Ryan is not a mid-level QB1. Otherwise good post, even a top 3 QB would be hard to sell for an RB1 in most leagues.

 

[Mile High]

Asking Tim Tebow to be a pocket passer is like asking Peyton Manning to run the zone read. As long as Foxy isn't stubborn (which is basically his signature trait - sigh) - Tebow will only go up from here as they will put him in the shotgun more and let him improvise a bit. Yes, Tebow looked horrible for the first 55 min yesterday, but that was a case of square peg-round hole. Denying that he was effective and creative in the final five minutes is just stubborn haterism. Tebow is not a terrible QB, but he is if you ask him to play the 3-5-7 step drop, read the defense and release the ball style of quarterbacking.

Agree with this. Looked like for most of the game Fox was trying to use Tebow to not lose the game. The last 5 minutes he let him try to win the game. Elway should be very familiar with this style of QB coaching since that's what Reeves did to him for years.

 

[Clifford]

I don't own the guy but I kept hearing him touted on the audible from Bloom..... Something like he's a QB1 should be valued for an RB1 in a trade? Really? If he can't do it against Miami he ain't doing it any time soon.... I like the show and I guess you have to take a stand but..... Someone should be eating crow this week...

Currently ranked as 8th QB for week 7 in my league where I started him. Even if both other QBs score ahead of him, that still makes him a QB1 for this week.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I'm in a few different dynasty leagues with Bloom that have 16 teams and you can start as few as 0 or 1 RB each week. Not crazy to think a top-5 QB could fetch a RB1 there if a team happened to be deep at RB and desperate for QB help. But I don't know that anyone expects Tebow to continue this forward for the rest of the season and in the years ahead, which probably makes it tough to ask for that type of return. I think we need to see that Fox is willing to buy-in to Tebow a bit more first since he doesn't have the same type of support in the organization that he did a year ago.

 

[cubbie5150]

Appreciate what Tim did for me this week w/ Brady on a BYE, but I hope to hell owners in my league value him as highly as a RB2, much less a 1... I know for a fact they don't value him as such, and saying he's a RB1 value is laughable

 

[az_prof]

tebow is a great fantasy player, say top 8 ab at worst going forward.. hes also a terrible thrower, maybe the worst in the history of the nfl. i would not have believed it if i didnt see it.

Jamarcus Russell was the worst and it isn't even close. Yet, Oakland kept trotting him out there for several years as the starter. I don't understand why critics can't at least give Tebow a chance. He is a second year player who has a new coach and system, who had a shortened off season, who lost his WR1, and who has a HC that is not playing to his strengths. Despite that he manages to pull off a big come from behind win. Denver needs to build the offense to Tebow's strengths the way CAR has for Cam Newton and Indy has for Peyton.

 

[RUSF18]

Maybe this isn't the best thread for the discussion, but with all the talk about Tebow and his ability to post top 5 QB numbers, has anyone altered their league scoring from the traditional "10 rushing yards = 1 point for all players" to differentiating between the scale for QBs and RBs? Obviously you set up your league and play to your rules, but let's ignore that for a second. To me, seeing guys like Newton, Tebow, and Vick post such big fantasy numbers with sometimes mediocre passing numbers just doesn't feel right.

 

[Apple Jack]

Maybe this isn't the best thread for the discussion, but with all the talk about Tebow and his ability to post top 5 QB numbers, has anyone altered their league scoring from the traditional "10 rushing yards = 1 point for all players" to differentiating between the scale for QBs and RBs? Obviously you set up your league and play to your rules, but let's ignore that for a second. To me, seeing guys like Newton, Tebow, and Vick post such big fantasy numbers with sometimes mediocre passing numbers just doesn't feel right.

Why? What's the difference between yards gained on the ground by a RB and yards gained on the ground by a QB? Either way, the team has advanced.

 

[RUSF18]

Maybe this isn't the best thread for the discussion, but with all the talk about Tebow and his ability to post top 5 QB numbers, has anyone altered their league scoring from the traditional "10 rushing yards = 1 point for all players" to differentiating between the scale for QBs and RBs? Obviously you set up your league and play to your rules, but let's ignore that for a second. To me, seeing guys like Newton, Tebow, and Vick post such big fantasy numbers with sometimes mediocre passing numbers just doesn't feel right.

Why? What's the difference between yards gained on the ground by a RB and yards gained on the ground by a QB? Either way, the team has advanced.

Well, you're already scoring the same yardage differently when you have a 20 yard reception. A RB/WR will get 2 points, a QB will get 0.8 or 0.67 depending on the system. Let's use the scoring of 25 passing yards = 1 point. All other things equal, what is the better performance by a QB...300 passing yards and 0 rushing yards or 200 passing yards and 50 rushing yards?

 

[jon_mx]

The 200 passing yards and 50 rushings yards is possibly more valuable. Especially if those yards came in key situations where the QB had to scramble to avoid the pressure and picked up a first down. Instead of losing 7 yards on a sack and have to kick a ball, that 5 yard run kept the drive going. Pass plays have a higher reward, but they also have a higher risk of turnover or penalty or sack or incompletion. Run yards tend to be more valuable because they are safer.

 

[loose circuits]

tebow is a great fantasy player, say top 8 ab at worst going forward.. hes also a terrible thrower, maybe the worst in the history of the nfl. i would not have believed it if i didnt see it.

Jamarcus Russell was the worst and it isn't even close. Yet, Oakland kept trotting him out there for several years as the starter. I don't understand why critics can't at least give Tebow a chance. He is a second year player who has a new coach and system, who had a shortened off season, who lost his WR1, and who has a HC that is not playing to his strengths. Despite that he manages to pull off a big come from behind win. Denver needs to build the offense to Tebow's strengths the way CAR has for Cam Newton and Indy has for Peyton.

most of the offense is the same since mike mccoy is still the OC. People lose credibility when they say this blindly without actually understanding the specifics of the situation.

 

[footballnerd]

Maybe this isn't the best thread for the discussion, but with all the talk about Tebow and his ability to post top 5 QB numbers, has anyone altered their league scoring from the traditional "10 rushing yards = 1 point for all players" to differentiating between the scale for QBs and RBs? Obviously you set up your league and play to your rules, but let's ignore that for a second. To me, seeing guys like Newton, Tebow, and Vick post such big fantasy numbers with sometimes mediocre passing numbers just doesn't feel right.

sounds like someone that lost to one of the listed QBs.if a player is putting up enough stats for both QB and RB they should be rewarded so, if it was an easy feat your list would be longer.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

As far as only trading Tebow for an RB1/WR1 - well, I still think Tebow should only be dealt for a top 12-15 RB, top 5-6 TE, or top 15-20 WR. Anything less and you are selling yourself short as Tebow showed that even on his worst day, he'll be a QB1.

RB cutoff would be about Turner/Sjax, maybe Hillis/Mend/CJ2K as a buy low

WR cutoff would be Djax/Green maybe Vjax/White/Austin as a buy low

TE would be Gates/OD maybe Finley as a buy low

The point is that you only deal Tebow for someone that will be a very clear upgrade in your lineup. I don't expect his numbers to tail off, and people with inconsistent QB production will soon him as the possible shot in the arm their team needs. Heck, if you don't have a QB1 lock (Brady/Brees/Newton/Rodgers/Vick types) then he might be the shot in the arm for your season.

The overarching point is don't undersell him - the idea of Tebow going for a top 40 player in a trade might be laughable now, but anyone being honest with themselves about Tebow's fantasy potential for the rest of the season would laugh at taking anything less for him.

 

[Hue G]

Just traded Tebow for Steve Johnson, not bad for a guy that I picked up for a bye week fill in for Brady. I'm going to try and deal him in the other league I picked him up in where I have Big Ben and Newton.

I'm not sold on Tebow as a QB1 for now I think he's actually created more questions than answers yesterday but if he can put up 22+ fantasy points against a solid D next week I'll be a lot closer to being convinced

 

[massraider]

From a redraft perspective, I have no problem plugging in Tebow as a starter if I have to. He's going to run around and do some stuff.

From a dynasty perspective, I would sell whenever I got someone that thinks they can get Newton numbers from him.

I agree with Bloom that Fox needs to run the correct offense for him to succeed. I disagree with the idea that Fox didn't run that offense yesterday until the last 5 minutes. They were running that shotgun, inside handoff option from the 1st quarter. Tebow was in the shotgun most of the time, I thought. Tebow's crappy performance for the first 3 quarters of that game was on Tebow, no one else.

I just think it's Vince Young all over again. Except this Vince Young is white, and loves Jesus. So it'll take even longer for people to realize he can't pass the ball with any consistency. His best passes come when he scrambles around, and makes some off balance toss to a receiver that is wide open. And even those, he missed yesterday. He was missing receivers by 10 yards yesterday!! I watch other QBs get criticized because they didn't put it on the receivers back shoulder, and Tebow is putting balls in the bread basket of the guy selling hot dogs.

People need to realize that the only way Tebow saves that game yesterday is because Prater makes the prettiest onside kick you will ever see. Tebow did not have the team in position to win, he was kept in the game by the most inept team in football right now, whose best player likes to drop TD passes, and who has the first coach that gets fired this year, IMO.

Fantasy-wise, as long as Tebow is playing, he will get some QB1 numbers. He'll run around, score some rushing TDs, and have some nice TD passes on broken plays. For the short term, he's the guy. Long term, I don't think Fox wants to run the shotgun every play, and Tebow's accuracy problems, and comically slow release, keep him from having the job security that I think a Newton, or even a Ponder, has moving forward.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Tebow seems to have proven himself a QB1. And there is enough statistical proof to back that up. Still, anyone who watched that Miami game, and saw just how awful he was for the first 55 minutes of that game can’t feel good about the prospects of Tebow continuing to have that 4th quarter magic. Against woeful teams like Miami, maybe. But going forward, DC’s know Tebow’s limitations and are going to shadow him with a LB and force him to beat them with his arm. He throws some ugly duck passes to no one in particular (How does the official scorer even assign receiver targets?)

What’s the likelihood he continues to have his horrible completion percentage and throwing accuracy all game long, and have just enough time on the clock to bail out fantasy owners that started him? I know that I don’t like waiting for lightning to strike twice in the same spot, but that’s just what Tebow owners are going to be forced to watch. So let’s say he’s got just 5 points midway through the 4th Qtr, but he ends up with 25 points. Nothing wrong with that scoring… Just if you are willing to take a lot of Rolaids waiting for the Tebow effect to kick in. “Do you feel lucky? Well do you punk!” – Clint Eastwood

I myself am a Tebow owner, but I don’t buy anyone in my league willing to part with a RB1/2 or WR1/2 or even a TE1 for him. If that’s the case, he’s definitely a “sell high”. I’d much rather take a chance on consistent player in a conventional offense that is getting a high number of touches, than a gimmick QB that has to pull a rabbit out of a hat every week for his points. If someone offered me any of the deals that Bloom suggest, I’d pounce on that deal without hesitation.

 

[footballnerd]

I just think it's Vince Young all over again. Except this Vince Young is white, and loves Jesus.

Confidence/self esteem and work ethic is a big difference too. Young never recovered from his personal issues.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Just traded Tebow for Steve Johnson,

perfect. Borderline WR1 - got open deep twice only to have fitz underthrow him for INTs vs the Giants or he would be clear WR1 right now.

 

[massraider]

I just think it's Vince Young all over again. Except this Vince Young is white, and loves Jesus.

Confidence/self esteem and work ethic is a big difference too. Young never recovered from his personal issues.

I am more referring to people ignoring holes in their game, because of intangibles. Merril Hoge made this point very well on ESPN this morning, debating Tebow with Bayless. The intangibles are nice, but you need tangibles to win titles.

 

[RUSF18]

Maybe this isn't the best thread for the discussion, but with all the talk about Tebow and his ability to post top 5 QB numbers, has anyone altered their league scoring from the traditional "10 rushing yards = 1 point for all players" to differentiating between the scale for QBs and RBs? Obviously you set up your league and play to your rules, but let's ignore that for a second. To me, seeing guys like Newton, Tebow, and Vick post such big fantasy numbers with sometimes mediocre passing numbers just doesn't feel right.

sounds like someone that lost to one of the listed QBs.if a player is putting up enough stats for both QB and RB they should be rewarded so, if it was an easy feat your list would be longer.

Put up league high points for the week, beating Aaron Rodgers. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Ray_T]

I don't own the guy but I kept hearing him touted on the audible from Bloom..... Something like he's a QB1 should be valued for an RB1 in a trade? Really? If he can't do it against Miami he ain't doing it any time soon.... I like the show and I guess you have to take a stand but..... Someone should be eating crow this week...

He is not a QB1.I watched the game up until Denvers first possession after Miami's last score in Q4. At that point Teebow had less than 100 yards passing and was poor at best.I saw highlights from the drive, the onside, and the game tying drive, and it seems he got it together, but This is not a guy you wanna hang your hat on as a QB1. If it werent for the onside kick, he wouldnt have been able to do the last drive and you guys would be screaming at how bad he was. With that being said, the kick was made, and he did what he did. Good for him. But I wouldnt call him a #1 Fantasy QB.QB2 maybe... but definitely not QB1. (not yet anyways)In all honesty, If he were on my team, he would be a bye week filler for one of my 2 QB's until we figure out what kind of player he really is or until he gets some level of consistency.Not slaggin the guy, just calling it as I see it. I want him to do well, but he's got a ways to go (IMO).

 

[Follows Closely]

I don't own the guy but I kept hearing him touted on the audible from Bloom..... Something like he's a QB1 should be valued for an RB1 in a trade? Really? If he can't do it against Miami he ain't doing it any time soon.... I like the show and I guess you have to take a stand but..... Someone should be eating crow this week...

He is not a QB1.I watched...

Everyone values players differently: some look at stats, some just look at highlights, others watch the entire game multiple times to determine value. Every game Tebow has started he has posed QB1 numbers. Given that short span of games you could conclude that he has QB1 value, simple as that. What I find so fascinating is how much love/hate this guys has. I have him on my roster as a bye week fill in for Brady, worked out great. Now I am trying to trade him, so I was searching the net for pictures to throw together some offers. (I take pride in offering exciting offers that usually include a nice writeup including pictures, videos and such.) Anyhow this is the first time that a Google Image Search returned porn when searching for an NFL Quarterback by name. I find that very interesting. Shows how polarizing this man is.

 

[shnikies]

I don't own the guy but I kept hearing him touted on the audible from Bloom..... Something like he's a QB1 should be valued for an RB1 in a trade? Really? If he can't do it against Miami he ain't doing it any time soon.... I like the show and I guess you have to take a stand but..... Someone should be eating crow this week...

He is not a QB1.I watched the game up until Denvers first possession after Miami's last score in Q4. At that point Teebow had less than 100 yards passing and was poor at best.I saw highlights from the drive, the onside, and the game tying drive, and it seems he got it together, but This is not a guy you wanna hang your hat on as a QB1. If it werent for the onside kick, he wouldnt have been able to do the last drive and you guys would be screaming at how bad he was. With that being said, the kick was made, and he did what he did. Good for him. But I wouldnt call him a #1 Fantasy QB.QB2 maybe... but definitely not QB1. (not yet anyways)In all honesty, If he were on my team, he would be a bye week filler for one of my 2 QB's until we figure out what kind of player he really is or until he gets some level of consistency.Not slaggin the guy, just calling it as I see it. I want him to do well, but he's got a ways to go (IMO).

So many delusional people in this thread. QB2 maybe!?!?!? He's not only a QB1, he's a top 7 quarterback going forward and until his fantasy point average drops under 20 (currently 26/game) you can't argue otherwise. /endthread

 

[steelerfan1]

this may be a team management question and if so, forgive me, but bloom and the like, would you feel comfortable enough to keep tebow and trade an elite like brady for a top rb or wr if you were hurting at other positions?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

this may be a team management question and if so, forgive me, but bloom and the like, would you feel comfortable enough to keep tebow and trade an elite like brady for a top rb or wr if you were hurting at other positions?

If you get top value for Brady, etc. (truly elite WR or RB) and have no options to trade Tebow, you do what you gotta do. If it all goes terribly wrong, QB is the easiest position to patch with duct tape and bailing wire and hope you get lucky. Rarely can do that with RB or WR

 

[Ray_T]

I don't own the guy but I kept hearing him touted on the audible from Bloom..... Something like he's a QB1 should be valued for an RB1 in a trade? Really? If he can't do it against Miami he ain't doing it any time soon.... I like the show and I guess you have to take a stand but..... Someone should be eating crow this week...

He is not a QB1.I watched the game up until Denvers first possession after Miami's last score in Q4. At that point Teebow had less than 100 yards passing and was poor at best.I saw highlights from the drive, the onside, and the game tying drive, and it seems he got it together, but This is not a guy you wanna hang your hat on as a QB1. If it werent for the onside kick, he wouldnt have been able to do the last drive and you guys would be screaming at how bad he was. With that being said, the kick was made, and he did what he did. Good for him. But I wouldnt call him a #1 Fantasy QB.QB2 maybe... but definitely not QB1. (not yet anyways)In all honesty, If he were on my team, he would be a bye week filler for one of my 2 QB's until we figure out what kind of player he really is or until he gets some level of consistency.Not slaggin the guy, just calling it as I see it. I want him to do well, but he's got a ways to go (IMO).

So many delusional people in this thread. QB2 maybe!?!?!? He's not only a QB1, he's a top 7 quarterback going forward and until his fantasy point average drops under 20 (currently 26/game) you can't argue otherwise. /endthread

You are dreaming dude. A QB1 doesnt get shut down for better than 3/4 of the game by the Dolphins. Especially when the Dolphins offense is so poor they cant stay on the field to give the defense a rest.I'm not slaggin the guy, I'm just saying hes not there yet. Its easy for people to see what they wanna see. You think I dont look at him and think he could be the next Vick? I think he has huge potential, but at this point in his career, I wouldnt want him to be my #1 Fantasy QB and I think that's just smart football management. If you are counting on him to be your #1, then you have other issues with your team (most likely crappy QB team/depth)either way, we can agree that we disagree. It would appear you will not be convinced either way.

 

[Apple Jack]

I don't own the guy but I kept hearing him touted on the audible from Bloom..... Something like he's a QB1 should be valued for an RB1 in a trade? Really? If he can't do it against Miami he ain't doing it any time soon.... I like the show and I guess you have to take a stand but..... Someone should be eating crow this week...

He is not a QB1.I watched the game up until Denvers first possession after Miami's last score in Q4. At that point Teebow had less than 100 yards passing and was poor at best.

I saw highlights from the drive, the onside, and the game tying drive, and it seems he got it together, but This is not a guy you wanna hang your hat on as a QB1. If it werent for the onside kick, he wouldnt have been able to do the last drive and you guys would be screaming at how bad he was. With that being said, the kick was made, and he did what he did. Good for him. But I wouldnt call him a #1 Fantasy QB.

QB2 maybe... but definitely not QB1. (not yet anyways)

In all honesty, If he were on my team, he would be a bye week filler for one of my 2 QB's until we figure out what kind of player he really is or until he gets some level of consistency.

Not slaggin the guy, just calling it as I see it. I want him to do well, but he's got a ways to go (IMO).

So many delusional people in this thread. QB2 maybe!?!?!? He's not only a QB1, he's a top 7 quarterback going forward and until his fantasy point average drops under 20 (currently 26/game) you can't argue otherwise. /endthread

You are dreaming dude. A QB1 doesnt get shut down for better than 3/4 of the game by the Dolphins. Especially when the Dolphins offense is so poor they cant stay on the field to give the defense a rest.

I'm not slaggin the guy, I'm just saying hes not there yet. Its easy for people to see what they wanna see. You think I dont look at him and think he could be the next Vick?

I think he has huge potential, but at this point in his career, I wouldnt want him to be my #1 Fantasy QB and I think that's just smart football management. If you are counting on him to be your #1, then you have other issues with your team (most likely crappy QB team/depth)

either way, we can agree that we disagree. It would appear you will not be convinced either way.

I don't know what you are seeing, but I'm looking at are his fantasy points, which have never been anything less than QB1 when he has played. What are you seeing?

 

[shnikies]

I don't own the guy but I kept hearing him touted on the audible from Bloom..... Something like he's a QB1 should be valued for an RB1 in a trade? Really? If he can't do it against Miami he ain't doing it any time soon.... I like the show and I guess you have to take a stand but..... Someone should be eating crow this week...

He is not a QB1.I watched the game up until Denvers first possession after Miami's last score in Q4. At that point Teebow had less than 100 yards passing and was poor at best.I saw highlights from the drive, the onside, and the game tying drive, and it seems he got it together, but This is not a guy you wanna hang your hat on as a QB1. If it werent for the onside kick, he wouldnt have been able to do the last drive and you guys would be screaming at how bad he was. With that being said, the kick was made, and he did what he did. Good for him. But I wouldnt call him a #1 Fantasy QB.QB2 maybe... but definitely not QB1. (not yet anyways)In all honesty, If he were on my team, he would be a bye week filler for one of my 2 QB's until we figure out what kind of player he really is or until he gets some level of consistency.Not slaggin the guy, just calling it as I see it. I want him to do well, but he's got a ways to go (IMO).

So many delusional people in this thread. QB2 maybe!?!?!? He's not only a QB1, he's a top 7 quarterback going forward and until his fantasy point average drops under 20 (currently 26/game) you can't argue otherwise. /endthread

You are dreaming dude. A QB1 doesnt get shut down for better than 3/4 of the game by the Dolphins. Especially when the Dolphins offense is so poor they cant stay on the field to give the defense a rest.I'm not slaggin the guy, I'm just saying hes not there yet. Its easy for people to see what they wanna see. You think I dont look at him and think he could be the next Vick? I think he has huge potential, but at this point in his career, I wouldnt want him to be my #1 Fantasy QB and I think that's just smart football management. If you are counting on him to be your #1, then you have other issues with your team (most likely crappy QB team/depth)either way, we can agree that we disagree. It would appear you will not be convinced either way.

It was his first start of the year and played beyond bad for 55 minutes yet still put up 23 fantasy points. When a quarterback averages over 10 fantasy points a week on rushing stats alone, how is he not a QB1? This isn't his first 23 point game, he's averaged 26 a game through his first four starts and 16 in a half two weeks ago. The Dolphins didn't shut Tebow down, Tebow shut himself down. The throws he was missing are throws even Tebow should make and has made before. He put up the second most points for a QB against the Dolphins this year, more than Rivers and Schaub and only less than Brady. Did I mention, he's averaging 26 fantasy points a game as a starter? Or that he's averaging 66 yards rushing a .75 tds a game?

 

[yoman]

I am happy that I started Tebow this week but I am not feeling very good about starting Tebow against the Lions next week. The Broncos are probably not going to be able to run the ball with McGahee out and the Lions are going to tee off on Tebow. He seems pretty tough but I can easily see him having an entire game like the first 55 minutes of the Dolphins game.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I am happy that I started Tebow this week but I am not feeling very good about starting Tebow against the Lions next week. The Broncos are probably not going to be able to run the ball with McGahee out and the Lions are going to tee off on Tebow. He seems pretty tough but I can easily see him having an entire game like the first 55 minutes of the Dolphins game.

I agree, and I'm in the same boat going into week 8 with Rodgers on his bye week. I don't like the matchup. The Lions are not the same as the Fins. They could easily make him look like the Tebow of the first 55 minutes, and extend it out to 60. Not feeling too great, but as a bye week filler, he should still have a mid teens floor, although I am not expecting another 25 pt game this week. I'll take the 17-18 pts if that's what he can muster. I'm assuming decent rush yardage and rushing TD.

 

[FavreCo]

So many delusional people in this thread. QB2 maybe!?!?!? He's not only a QB1, he's a top 7 quarterback going forward and until his fantasy point average drops under 20 (currently 26/game) you can't argue otherwise. /endthread

When talking about delusional, you had to be looking in the mirror. It was Miami.

 

[Jake22]

If his throws look like that every week, he's gonna have some weeks with some very ugly stats...He overthrew a WIDE OPEN Decker by more than 10 yards, it would have been a sure 80 yard TD too, you can't be missing on those plays every week like that, and the fact that his throw was nowhere near his WR makes me wonder if he can keep doing that and keep his job.

I know he pulled it out in the end with 2 late TD's, but he struggled all day to do it...maybe his throws get better as he plays more, maybe not, we shall see in a few weeks.

And who exactly would Tebow be losing his job to? Kyle Orton? Brady Quinn?He won the damn game despite being down two scores in the 4th quarter. You don't pay quarterbacks to throw for 300 yards; you pay them to be team leaders and win games. If Tebow can do that without ever throwing for more than 170 yards, then defenses aren't exactly shutting him down.

Not like Denver has Aaron Rodgers or even Matt Flynn on the bench. Tebow is the starter for the remainder of the season, unless Elway becomes so fixated on Luck that he hires a crippled blind hobo off the street to play quarterback.

Cam Newton and Tebow have the same number of career wins, yet Tebow got his two in just four starts. Stop blindly hating the guy and respect the facts.

Orton could've been blindfolded and had much better stats for as much room as Denver WR's had, and yes, I watched the game...think what you will but Tebow has exactly this year to do anything productive and if he doesn't, there wont be any NFL team that is gonna run him out there as a starter week in and week out to look as bad as he did against a very poor Miami defense...

 

[sweetness34]

:Not intending to turn this into an AC Forum Q:

Lots of guys selling Tebow. Anyone trying to trade for Tebow? Would you trade a Flacco or Ryan type for him? Even a Rivers?

 

[chinawildman]

I am happy that I started Tebow this week but I am not feeling very good about starting Tebow against the Lions next week. The Broncos are probably not going to be able to run the ball with McGahee out and the Lions are going to tee off on Tebow. He seems pretty tough but I can easily see him having an entire game like the first 55 minutes of the Dolphins game.

I agree, and I'm in the same boat going into week 8 with Rodgers on his bye week. I don't like the matchup. The Lions are not the same as the Fins. They could easily make him look like the Tebow of the first 55 minutes, and extend it out to 60. Not feeling too great, but as a bye week filler, he should still have a mid teens floor, although I am not expecting another 25 pt game this week. I'll take the 17-18 pts if that's what he can muster. I'm assuming decent rush yardage and rushing TD.

Interesting. I think the Lions have a glass jaw and still haven't recovered from their first loss. Despite having good DL they are NOT a good run D. Going into Mile High raging with Tebow mania provides a perfect storm for a broncos upset.

 

[shnikies]

So many delusional people in this thread. QB2 maybe!?!?!? He's not only a QB1, he's a top 7 quarterback going forward and until his fantasy point average drops under 20 (currently 26/game) you can't argue otherwise. /endthread

When talking about delusional, you had to be looking in the mirror. It was Miami.

I'm sorry, should I downgrade him because the 23 points were against the Dolphins? So, putting up more points than Rivers and Schaub did against the Dolphins is meaningless? What about the 16 points in a half against the Chargers? Or the 84 points in 3 starts last year? How many quarterbacks are also the team's goal line running back or will consistently rush for 50 yards?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

So many delusional people in this thread. QB2 maybe!?!?!? He's not only a QB1, he's a top 7 quarterback going forward and until his fantasy point average drops under 20 (currently 26/game) you can't argue otherwise. /endthread

When talking about delusional, you had to be looking in the mirror. It was Miami.

and Oakland, Houston, and San Diego twice.Tebow has played 18 quarters for the Broncos going back to week 15 in 2010.

If you break down his production per quarter, you get:

3.2 of 6.6 passing (48.3%) for 49.5 yards, .4TD/.2INT, 2.5 rush attempts for 16.8 yards and .2 TD

that looks like he's putting up just about 200 passing yards, 65 rushing yards, 1.5 passing TDs, .8 rushing TDs, and -.7 INTs per game.

In standard scoring (4pt passing TD, 6pt rushing TD, -1 per INT), that's 26.6 fantasy points per game.

If you go to 6pt per passing TD with -2 for INTs, he's at 28.9 fantasy points per game.

Not a great sample size yet and he has to come crashing down eventually, but I'm not sure how anyone can dispute his production to this point. I didn't even factor in any 2pt conversions because I didn't see them listed.

 

[shnikies]

If his throws look like that every week, he's gonna have some weeks with some very ugly stats...He overthrew a WIDE OPEN Decker by more than 10 yards, it would have been a sure 80 yard TD too, you can't be missing on those plays every week like that, and the fact that his throw was nowhere near his WR makes me wonder if he can keep doing that and keep his job.

I know he pulled it out in the end with 2 late TD's, but he struggled all day to do it...maybe his throws get better as he plays more, maybe not, we shall see in a few weeks.

And who exactly would Tebow be losing his job to? Kyle Orton? Brady Quinn?He won the damn game despite being down two scores in the 4th quarter. You don't pay quarterbacks to throw for 300 yards; you pay them to be team leaders and win games. If Tebow can do that without ever throwing for more than 170 yards, then defenses aren't exactly shutting him down.

Not like Denver has Aaron Rodgers or even Matt Flynn on the bench. Tebow is the starter for the remainder of the season, unless Elway becomes so fixated on Luck that he hires a crippled blind hobo off the street to play quarterback.

Cam Newton and Tebow have the same number of career wins, yet Tebow got his two in just four starts. Stop blindly hating the guy and respect the facts.

Orton could've been blindfolded and had much better stats for as much room as Denver WR's had, and yes, I watched the game...think what you will but Tebow has exactly this year to do anything productive and if he doesn't, there wont be any NFL team that is gonna run him out there as a starter week in and week out to look as bad as he did against a very poor Miami defense...

The receivers wouldn't have been that open with Orton. Tebow's presence helps considerably. Do I think Tebow is a good passer? No, but he will make those passes more often than not, he played very poorly even for Tebow standards.

 

[PahtyTom]

I'll just copy what I posted in the other Tebow thread:

It's obvious Broncos brass (Elway/Fox) do not want Tebow as their long term starter. That gameplan was designed for him to fail. It would be the same if you asked Kyle Orton to execute a gameplan designed to Tebow's skill set. If you want to win games with Tebow, you have to have about 10 designed runs a game for him and a lot of short passes/screens. It is not a typical NFL gameplan, but Tebow has showed he can make it effective in the NFL when given the chance to take over last year. These Denver coaches did not do this because they do not believe in that playing style and wanted him to fail so they could say "see, we gave him his chance".

 

[loose circuits]

I'll just copy what I posted in the other Tebow thread:It's obvious Broncos brass (Elway/Fox) do not want Tebow as their long term starter. That gameplan was designed for him to fail. It would be the same if you asked Kyle Orton to execute a gameplan designed to Tebow's skill set. If you want to win games with Tebow, you have to have about 10 designed runs a game for him and a lot of short passes/screens. It is not a typical NFL gameplan, but Tebow has showed he can make it effective in the NFL when given the chance to take over last year. These Denver coaches did not do this because they do not believe in that playing style and wanted him to fail so they could say "see, we gave him his chance".

Does Fox even run the offense or have much to do with play calling? Isn't his background in defense?

 

[BassNBrew]

As far as only trading Tebow for an RB1/WR1 - well, I still think Tebow should only be dealt for a top 12-15 RB, top 5-6 TE, or top 15-20 WR. Anything less and you are selling yourself short as Tebow showed that even on his worst day, he'll be a QB1. RB cutoff would be about Turner/Sjax, maybe Hillis/Mend/CJ2K as a buy lowWR cutoff would be Djax/Green maybe Vjax/White/Austin as a buy lowTE would be Gates/OD maybe Finley as a buy lowThe point is that you only deal Tebow for someone that will be a very clear upgrade in your lineup. I don't expect his numbers to tail off, and people with inconsistent QB production will soon him as the possible shot in the arm their team needs. Heck, if you don't have a QB1 lock (Brady/Brees/Newton/Rodgers/Vick types) then he might be the shot in the arm for your season.The overarching point is don't undersell him - the idea of Tebow going for a top 40 player in a trade might be laughable now, but anyone being honest with themselves about Tebow's fantasy potential for the rest of the season would laugh at taking anything less for him.

You're way off base here. You later contradict yourself by saying the QB position is the easiest to duct tape.In four recent drafts Tewbow went in the round 7-10 range. You're talking about guys in the 2nd to 4th round range as a cut off. How many drafts do you see QB6 going in the 2nd or 3rd round?

 

[hines]

I don't own the guy but I kept hearing him touted on the audible from Bloom..... Something like he's a QB1 should be valued for an RB1 in a trade? Really? If he can't do it against Miami he ain't doing it any time soon.... I like the show and I guess you have to take a stand but..... Someone should be eating crow this week...

He is not a QB1.I watched the game up until Denvers first possession after Miami's last score in Q4. At that point Teebow had less than 100 yards passing and was poor at best.

I saw highlights from the drive, the onside, and the game tying drive, and it seems he got it together, but This is not a guy you wanna hang your hat on as a QB1. If it werent for the onside kick, he wouldnt have been able to do the last drive and you guys would be screaming at how bad he was. With that being said, the kick was made, and he did what he did. Good for him. But I wouldnt call him a #1 Fantasy QB.

QB2 maybe... but definitely not QB1. (not yet anyways)

In all honesty, If he were on my team, he would be a bye week filler for one of my 2 QB's until we figure out what kind of player he really is or until he gets some level of consistency.

Not slaggin the guy, just calling it as I see it. I want him to do well, but he's got a ways to go (IMO).

So many delusional people in this thread. QB2 maybe!?!?!? He's not only a QB1, he's a top 7 quarterback going forward and until his fantasy point average drops under 20 (currently 26/game) you can't argue otherwise. /endthread

You are dreaming dude. A QB1 doesnt get shut down for better than 3/4 of the game by the Dolphins. Especially when the Dolphins offense is so poor they cant stay on the field to give the defense a rest.

I'm not slaggin the guy, I'm just saying hes not there yet. Its easy for people to see what they wanna see. You think I dont look at him and think he could be the next Vick?

I think he has huge potential, but at this point in his career, I wouldnt want him to be my #1 Fantasy QB and I think that's just smart football management. If you are counting on him to be your #1, then you have other issues with your team (most likely crappy QB team/depth)

either way, we can agree that we disagree. It would appear you will not be convinced either way.

I don't know what you are seeing, but I'm looking at are his fantasy points, which have never been anything less than QB1 when he has played. What are you seeing?

you are looking at the wrong thing. you don't base all your forward projections off of a 4-game sample size. he is not going to have a rushing TD every game and right now he needs it to have a decent day. his passing skills are poor enough that he will have several under 100 yard, 0 TD games. if he does not rush for a TD in those weeks it is a disaster. he will rarely pick up huge amounts of yards passing due to poor accuracy and a mediocre WR group (I know he went over 300 once last year, that will be the rare exception he went over 300 4 times in 3 years at Florida with arguably similar talent at WR vs vastly inferior competition). you are basically counting on him to rush for 50 and a TD every single game to come near top 6 QB status. as we have seen the all-time QB record for rushing TDs is .75 a game. you are counting on Tebow breaking that handily just to equal your projections. I see almost no ceiling above that and lots of room to free-fall. all that to say, you want to be the one trading Tebow, not trading Michael Turner to get him.

 

[footballnerd]

you are looking at the wrong thing. you don't base all your forward projections off of a 4-game sample size. he is not going to have a rushing TD every game and right now he needs it to have a decent day. his passing skills are poor enough that he will have several under 100 yard, 0 TD games. if he does not rush for a TD in those weeks it is a disaster. he will rarely pick up huge amounts of yards passing due to poor accuracy and a mediocre WR group (I know he went over 300 once last year, that will be the rare exception he went over 300 4 times in 3 years at Florida with arguably similar talent at WR vs vastly inferior competition). you are basically counting on him to rush for 50 and a TD every single game to come near top 6 QB status. as we have seen the all-time QB record for rushing TDs is .75 a game. you are counting on Tebow breaking that handily just to equal your projections. I see almost no ceiling above that and lots of room to free-fall. all that to say, you want to be the one trading Tebow, not trading Michael Turner to get him.

if he plays as bad as Sam Bradford has this year, or Donovan Mcnabb, he'd be averaging about 9 pts a game, tack on about 40 to 50 yds rushing and that's 13 pt floor per week. Then factor in that he scored a rushing TD in every game he played in last year except 1, and you got an avg of close 19 pts per week, and that's 13 to 19 pts if has a bad passing game. Seems pretty solid right there.

 

[hines]

you are looking at the wrong thing. you don't base all your forward projections off of a 4-game sample size. he is not going to have a rushing TD every game and right now he needs it to have a decent day. his passing skills are poor enough that he will have several under 100 yard, 0 TD games. if he does not rush for a TD in those weeks it is a disaster. he will rarely pick up huge amounts of yards passing due to poor accuracy and a mediocre WR group (I know he went over 300 once last year, that will be the rare exception he went over 300 4 times in 3 years at Florida with arguably similar talent at WR vs vastly inferior competition). you are basically counting on him to rush for 50 and a TD every single game to come near top 6 QB status. as we have seen the all-time QB record for rushing TDs is .75 a game. you are counting on Tebow breaking that handily just to equal your projections. I see almost no ceiling above that and lots of room to free-fall. all that to say, you want to be the one trading Tebow, not trading Michael Turner to get him.

if he plays as bad as Sam Bradford has this year, or Donovan Mcnabb, he'd be averaging about 9 pts a game, tack on about 40 to 50 yds rushing and that's 13 pt floor per week. Then factor in that he scored a rushing TD in every game he played in last year except 1, and you got an avg of close 19 pts per week, and that's 13 to 19 pts if has a bad passing game. Seems pretty solid right there.

floor means worst game. it reads like you think his worst passing games will be Bradford's average. I disagree and think his floor is 100 yards, 0 TDs. Bradford averaged 235 yards per game

 

[hines]

I think he is a fine backup QB and worth a shot for people starting Flacco or Cutler or Sanchez but just think people saying top 6 are getting way ahead of themselves