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Tennis - Sinner accepts three month ban - won't miss Roland Garros (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Master of Past and Present
- Start date
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Big break back
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
This sucks
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
I would imagine this set goes quick but would love to see Roger take it to five.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
I'm not sure if it's djokavic or just the pressure to win one more, but it's odd to see such a dip in level in these finals from what we see in the prior matches.
For three guys to have double digit majors that played across the same era is incredible.
Ted Stickles
Footballguy
Fed's forehand has become too wristy, whippy, and loopy. Hard to see him miss so many forehands.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
The larger racket gave him more backhand and more serve, but took something off the golden forehand.. Well that and age.
Ted Stickles
Footballguy
This game 
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Novak just too much for a 34 year old Federer.
John Bender
Footballguy
Nice tourney. Djoker is all class too. Nice win 
AAABatteries
Footballguy
It's so crazy - I feel like Federer blew a huge chance and it completely ruins the fact that the dude was in another GS Final. It really is unreal and he's still the GOAT for me. But it does suck he can't finish one of these off - he seems so close and just can't get over the hump with Joker.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Nice tourney. Djoker is all class too. Nice win
Ted Stickles
Footballguy
It is incredible that into his 30's (currently age 34) Fed still consistently makes it through to the semi-finals and finals of Majors.
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Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Think he did bring his A game but it's not enough to beat Djokovic's A game. There's a reason Nole has 12785 points in 2015 and Murray in 2nd is at 7370.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
It's probably pointless to argue because even if he did bring his A game he may lose but I don't see how that's his A game with 50+ unforced errors. Novak deserved the win but I can't help feeling the Fed threw away another great chance.Master of Past and Present said:
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
The difference is that Agassi played absolutely perfect tennis for three sets, but was still down 2-1 after Fed took it up a notch in the 3rd set tie-break. Agassi knew it was over after that.Popinski said:
If Federer had played that well last night he'd have won.
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Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Roger can play at a very high level and still lose to Novak. He can't beat him unless he forces the issue because Novak is too good from the baseline. Roger has to get out of his comfort zone and play more high risk, high reward. He attempted to do that last night but it is tough unless he serves out of his mind.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Freaking Joker ran down so many balls that I thought would be winners it was sick. Plus Fed choked away a couple of forehand and backhand winners that may have changed the outcome. And has been noted, Fed did not serve out of his mind like he needed to. Anyway, just watching those two play was pretty cool. Tennis will miss Fed when he finally hangs it up.
Yeah the gap between Agassi and Federer was clearly larger at that point than that in last night's final. I was just referring to the general circumstances.
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
I don't think you can just look at error count and say that means someone played less than their best., I think it has to be taken into consideration that he knows hitting in the middle of the court isn't going to do anything for him but extend the match in time which is just going to help Djokovic. To beat Djokovic in best of 5 (and really probably win in 4 at most), he's going to need to hit lines which means more risk and more errors. He needs to hit big shots to create opportunities to come in and end points. And really it worked except he only converted 17% of break points and Djokovic gets a ton of credit for that.
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Djokovic first to win 6 Master 1000s in a single season, also first to make 8 finals. Previously 6 finals was tops.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
Pretty sick.
Definitely one of the best tennis seasons of all-time. And he should finish with a WTF win.
When your top competition is a declining Nadal, a Murray who's never looked the same since surgery, Olderer, and Wawrinka... well this is what you get.
Olderer shouldn't be making finals at this point.... I don't know if Murray will get back into the type of shape it will take to beat Nole.
Nole has no peers currently..... Tennis can turn on a dime... but at this point you see a realistic possibility for him to overtake Nadal in major count. I can't see him making it to 17 though... the body breaks down... he's been on a great injury free run... can it last? After he won 3 majors in his monster 2011 though.... He won 1 major in 12 and 1 in 13
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Final Tally:
3 Majors, 1 Runner up
6 Master 1000 wins, 2 runner ups
World Tour Final winner
Insane to think what he or anyone needs to do to top this season, he barely left anything on the table.
3 Majors, 1 Runner up
6 Master 1000 wins, 2 runner ups
World Tour Final winner
Insane to think what he or anyone needs to do to top this season, he barely left anything on the table.
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Team competition but really wouldn't be a stretch to say Andy Murray won Davis Cup. I'm amazed he was able to carry them to a title.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
What's wrong with Andy Murray in the overall scheme of things. Has he just never recovered fully from the surgery? Did he lose the drive after winning 2013 Wimbledon?
I know he made a final this year, and is still playing well.... but I really thought he was going to be a solid 5-6 major winner over the course of his career.... and now unless Djoker really drops off, it is hard to see him winning more than 1 or 2 more.... He has the same number of majors as freakin' Wawrinka.
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Even this far out it is hard to say about his back being 100% but I think the simple answer is:
Novak Djokovic
Really didn't have a bad year, won his first clay events ever and 1 was a Master 1000 (17-1 record). Only 2 bad results in the big tournies (I'm not counting the lack of SF in the World Tour Finals because I think it is quite plausible and likely from his considering to skip the event that he never wanted to make it to the weekend). He had a four set loss in the US Open 4R to Anderson cause he just couldn't break through the serve that day. Out of 8 Master 100 events he went SF or better in all but one where he withdrew with fatigue in the 3R.
Had F, SF, SF, 4R in majors. 2 W, 2 F, 3 SF, and 1 3R in master 100 events.
In the 10 of those events he didn't win, Djokovic beat him in 6, Federer 2, Anderson, and dropped out.
Djokovic is up 21-9. Djokovic is 10-1 since '13 Wimbledon, all matches after the surgery. So it was 11-8 at that time. Back could be an issue but I'd give most of the credit to Djokovic. If desire was an issue, think Murray would have more bad losses but most of them this year in notable events were to Djokovic and Federer. He fought back to #2 and had his best season on clay where if you don't have desire, pretty easy to get knocked off.
Wawrinka while more inconsistent can blow by anyone if he's in the zone. Murray has 2 problems. One, his game is similar to Djokovic and Djokovic is just better at it than he is. Two, Andy has the tendency to play it safe over trying to go big. Against most that would be and is fine, against Djokovic that is just prolonged death. Wawrinka just goes big and if he's on that day, even the greatest defense can be shattered. Andy needs to be more aggressive in that spot and just go for it.
In the overall scheme I'd say he's fine. #2, improved on his worst surface, just having trouble beating the #1 guy.
Novak Djokovic
Really didn't have a bad year, won his first clay events ever and 1 was a Master 1000 (17-1 record). Only 2 bad results in the big tournies (I'm not counting the lack of SF in the World Tour Finals because I think it is quite plausible and likely from his considering to skip the event that he never wanted to make it to the weekend). He had a four set loss in the US Open 4R to Anderson cause he just couldn't break through the serve that day. Out of 8 Master 100 events he went SF or better in all but one where he withdrew with fatigue in the 3R.
Had F, SF, SF, 4R in majors. 2 W, 2 F, 3 SF, and 1 3R in master 100 events.
In the 10 of those events he didn't win, Djokovic beat him in 6, Federer 2, Anderson, and dropped out.
Djokovic is up 21-9. Djokovic is 10-1 since '13 Wimbledon, all matches after the surgery. So it was 11-8 at that time. Back could be an issue but I'd give most of the credit to Djokovic. If desire was an issue, think Murray would have more bad losses but most of them this year in notable events were to Djokovic and Federer. He fought back to #2 and had his best season on clay where if you don't have desire, pretty easy to get knocked off.
Wawrinka while more inconsistent can blow by anyone if he's in the zone. Murray has 2 problems. One, his game is similar to Djokovic and Djokovic is just better at it than he is. Two, Andy has the tendency to play it safe over trying to go big. Against most that would be and is fine, against Djokovic that is just prolonged death. Wawrinka just goes big and if he's on that day, even the greatest defense can be shattered. Andy needs to be more aggressive in that spot and just go for it.
In the overall scheme I'd say he's fine. #2, improved on his worst surface, just having trouble beating the #1 guy.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Probably the greatest individual run in Davis Cup history. No hype.Doesn't mean two ####s to the average fan, but winning the first one in 79 years is a massive achievement for Great Britain, and elevates an already revered player to epic hero status in his homeland.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/daviscup/12023286/Davis-Cup-final-2015-live-Andy-Murray-David-Goffin.html
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Def one of the best seasons of all-time, more dominant than Federer's best season. 82-6, 3 major titles, 3rd man to reach all 4 major finals (after Rod Laver and Roger Federer), a record 6 Masters 1000 tournaments, reaching the final of 8 Masters 1000 tournaments, reaching 15 consecutive finals, and a record 31 top 10 match victories. Losses were 3 to Fed (5-3 overall), one each to Andy, Ivo and Stan.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Yeah, an amazing season but is was actually less dominant than Federer's 2006 season. Roger was 92-5, 3 major titles (finalist in the other), 12 total titles. The Masters tournaments were a different format back then so you can't compare apples to apples but Roger won 5 of them. Out of those 5 losses, 3 were to the world's number #2 player and the world's best clay court player ever on clay. Roger made the finals is 16 of the 17 tournaments he entered. Roger was 11-0 on grass and 59-2 on hard courts. He was 16-3 on clay with all three losses to the greatest clay court player of all-time.BobbyLayne said:
It is definitely close but they had equal records in grand slams, Roger won a higher percentage of matches and had 1 more title and only loss 2 non-clay matches.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Almost reaching "count the number of angels on a pinhead" status here.
Federer 2005-06 went 173-9. He actually had a slightly better winning percentage in 2005. But 2006 has always been a popular pick as #2 behind Laver in 1969.
2006 is the first year Nadal (#2 from start to finish) and Fed (#1 from 1/1 to 12/31) met in a GS final. Roddick & Hewitt started their decline. I'm of the opinion the depth is much greater now than it was nine years ago.
Fed played two more 250 Series tournaments than Joker (3 to 1.) He won 12 tournaments to Novak's 11, but 3 of those titles were 250s. The hierarchy of wins:
GS - 3 each
1000 Masters (same 9 tournaments, same 96 player field both seasons) - Djokovic 6, Federer 4
500 Series - Novak 2, Roger 2
250 Series - Fed 3, Joker 0
The only difference I am aware of about the Masters Series is they were mandatory prior to 2009. That was a bit ####ed up because they didn't allow for enough exceptions and players were being unfairly penalized. The unintended consequence was you had guys who had marginal injuries or were just dog tired entering a 1000 Series because the ATP said they had to, then they tanked or just flat out pulled a "retired due to injury' walkover. Changing the mandatory participation rule didn't diminish the quality of the field. If you're a top player, you don't need to be told to go to Indian Wells, Miami, Monte Carlo, Rome, Montreal/Toronto, Cincinnati, et al. You're going if you are healthy, it's not a debate. This isn't golf where Tiger skips courses like Colonial because it's not "right there in front of you."
Anyway, we've been blessed the last 13-15 years. After Sampras/AA faded, we were treated to three guys who you can legitimately argue have played the best stretch of tennis ever seen.
ETA: Sorry, forgot to mention - Roger won 12/18 tournaments entered in 2006, Novak won 11/16 tournaments entered in 2015. IIRC his 250 loss this year was the season opening tournament for him, lost Q to Ivo.
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Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Same things that have always plagued Murray. He's not the fittest guy around, and he can't settle his nerves. Super talented, though.Dentist said:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
One last point on 2006 v. 2015: Federer had 19 wins over top ten players in his best season, Djokovic had 31.
Man, I'm looking over some of the streaks Roger put together back then and it is insane.
Man, I'm looking over some of the streaks Roger put together back then and it is insane.
- 49 straight in the U.S.
- 65 straight on grass
- 56 straight on hard courts (all three are the longest ever)
- 35 match win streak in 2005
- 41 match win streak in 2006 (8th and 7th longest ever)
- 10 straight GS finals, 23 straight GS semis, 36 straight GS quarters - all records
- 237 consecutive weeks at #1 (all-time record)
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Federer has the better record but as pointed out, a lot of that is the boost from 250 events. Not a lot of top matches in those wins.
I've seen the conversion of 2006 points to 2015 to be 15,495 for Federer, Djokovic ended the year with 16,585. He eats up those extra wins pretty quickly in winning two more Master 1000 events.
I've seen the conversion of 2006 points to 2015 to be 15,495 for Federer, Djokovic ended the year with 16,585. He eats up those extra wins pretty quickly in winning two more Master 1000 events.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
I've read several articles about 2006 Federer vs. 2015 Djoker.
I think it's pretty dang close. I'm going to give a slight edge to Federer because the guy he lost his GS final to was the greatest clay courter ever, and the same guy he lost the clay masters to... well and also I'm FedDentist
Djoker lost to Wawrinka.. that's inexcusable and kept him from the greatest season ever.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Fed beat 73 players ranked outside the Top Ten in 2006 - roughly 79% of his match wins. Between Australia and Wimbledon, he lost four straight finals to Nadal before beating him on grass. He ended the year with a 2-4 record against the World #2. His only other loss for the year was to Murray. At the time Andy Murray was in his first full season on the ATP Tour. His win at Cincinnati over Federer as an unseeded player ended Federer's 55 match hardcourt streak and propelled him into the top 20 for the first time. He lost to Roddick two rounds later in the quarters. 5 losses to 2 players, four to the same guy, one to a newcomer.
Joker beat 51 players ranked outside the Top Ten in 2015 - about 62% of his match wins. His losses were to Ivo (7) in the quarters at Qatar, in the Finals to Federer (2) in Dubai, Wawrinka (8) at Roland Garros, to Murray (2) at the Rogers Cup, and to Federer (3) in the Round Robin at the Tour Final. He avenged the latter loss in the finals at the same tournament. 6 losses to 4 players, three to the same guy, and two to middle seeds (Ivo & Stan.)
Guess you can go either way if you choose. I think Novak's year is a shade better, but both were phenomenal.
I will say this - I have watched Roger live a lot more than Novak. And I have never seen anyone hit as many perfectly placed winners as Roger. I'm arguing the stats favor the most recent season, but with my own eyes - Federer at the US Open was better than anyone I had ever seen, and to date better than anyone else I have seen in person. I'm a 2.5 player and no expert analyst, but from my layman view, at his peak he was ####### amazing.
Joker beat 51 players ranked outside the Top Ten in 2015 - about 62% of his match wins. His losses were to Ivo (7) in the quarters at Qatar, in the Finals to Federer (2) in Dubai, Wawrinka (8) at Roland Garros, to Murray (2) at the Rogers Cup, and to Federer (3) in the Round Robin at the Tour Final. He avenged the latter loss in the finals at the same tournament. 6 losses to 4 players, three to the same guy, and two to middle seeds (Ivo & Stan.)
Guess you can go either way if you choose. I think Novak's year is a shade better, but both were phenomenal.
I will say this - I have watched Roger live a lot more than Novak. And I have never seen anyone hit as many perfectly placed winners as Roger. I'm arguing the stats favor the most recent season, but with my own eyes - Federer at the US Open was better than anyone I had ever seen, and to date better than anyone else I have seen in person. I'm a 2.5 player and no expert analyst, but from my layman view, at his peak he was ####### amazing.
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Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
(Player year end ranking during that season)
2006
(2) Nadal, (4) Blake x 2, (5) Ljubicic, (6) Roddick, (10) Gonzalez x 2, (12) Baghdatis, (13) Berdych, (18) Gasquet, (39) Henman, (46) Monfils
2015
(2) Murray x 3, (3) Federer x 5, (5) Nadal, (6) Berdych, (10)Tsonga
I get you don't get to pick your finals opponent. I'm still impressed with how much harder Djokovic's list looks. If you were to rank them, Murray and 33/34 year old Federer are better than anyone on the 2006 list not named Nadal. So essentially Djokovic has 8 of the top 9 spots in impressive Finals wins where ever the 2006 Nadal match is placed. As much of a step down 2015 Nadal is, he's still producing better than 2006 James Blake who ended that year ranked 2 spots better than Nadal this year.
38% of wins vs top 10 vs 21% (just reversing the stats Bobby gave for outside of 10), record number of Master 1000.
Both years are epic. Not trying to take away anything from Federer's 2006 year but when comparing them, I just see Djokovic's 2015 as a notch above. Better results, better guys standing in his way on average. Huge homer or not, not sure how that is undone by a loss to Wawrinka.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
The fact that Federer can still beat the guy now (albeit not in a 5 set tournament) is ####### amazing.
I think the 2006 Federer would beat 2015 Djoker 7 times out of 10... obviously pure speculation... but to not believe that means you think that 2015 Federer isn't that much worse than the 2006 version.. and that seems hard to believe. the 2015 GOAT may have more court savvy and a few more tricks in his arsenal.. but the 2006 guy is sublime
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Aussie draw out, Djokovic-Federer in top half, Wawrinka-Murray in bottom. Nadal falls into Wawrinka's quarter and has Verdasco in the first round. Remember when those two had an epic SF clash? Seems like forever to go.
Djokovic seems to have drawn a good quarter, until Tsonga/Nishikori in the QF, he'd have to be off his game or someone really abnormally hot to give him a match it seems.
Dimitrov sits as a dangerous 3rd round opponent for Federer. Cilic/Berdych are top seeds to see in QF.
Wawrinka if cold could face trouble with Sock in 3rd, Raonic in 4th, Nadal/Anderson in QF.
Think Murray got the best draw. Tomic in 4th and Ferrer in QF look to be his tough battles, really struggling to see someone who should challenge him.
Djokovic seems to have drawn a good quarter, until Tsonga/Nishikori in the QF, he'd have to be off his game or someone really abnormally hot to give him a match it seems.
Dimitrov sits as a dangerous 3rd round opponent for Federer. Cilic/Berdych are top seeds to see in QF.
Wawrinka if cold could face trouble with Sock in 3rd, Raonic in 4th, Nadal/Anderson in QF.
Think Murray got the best draw. Tomic in 4th and Ferrer in QF look to be his tough battles, really struggling to see someone who should challenge him.
John Bender
Footballguy
So what do we think about this?
http://espn.go.com/tennis/story/_/id/14590723/report-alleges-widespread-match-fixing-major-tournaments-top-ranked-players
http://espn.go.com/tennis/story/_/id/14590723/report-alleges-widespread-match-fixing-major-tournaments-top-ranked-players
