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Tennis - Sinner accepts three month ban - won't miss Roland Garros (1 Viewer)

just crushed another masters without losing a set.

djoker and Murray pull out of Miami, Fed to climb rankings fast! 

 
Pretty big match tomorrow between Federer and Nadal when it comes to analyzing their head-to-head records. A win by Roger will give him a better head-to-head record against Nadal on grass and hard court. He would obviously still be well below .500 overall against Nadal but history I think will view Nadal's dominance over Roger strictly as a clay surface thing.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Pretty big match tomorrow between Federer and Nadal when it comes to analyzing their head-to-head records. A win by Roger will give him a better head-to-head record against Nadal on grass and hard court. He would obviously still be well below .500 overall against Nadal but history I think will view Nadal's dominance over Roger strictly as a clay surface thing.
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pretty good match so far with the goat taking set 1.

long way to go

 
pwned again.  eff you nadal.

I wonder where Roger goes now.  will he play clay season or take a break?    he's on a path back to number one, but I hope he passes on that and takes a much needed break and plays light at most on clay and shoots for Wimbledon

 
Dentist said:
pwned again.  eff you nadal.

I wonder where Roger goes now.  will he play clay season or take a break?    he's on a path back to number one, but I hope he passes on that and takes a much needed break and plays light at most on clay and shoots for Wimbledon
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Sounds like a light clay schedule for Roger. Wimbledon should be great.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Sounds like a light clay schedule for Roger. Wimbledon should be great.
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yup, French only.  I actually don't like that, I say either 2 or 3 clay events or none.

movement is weird on clay, seems like you set yourself up for injury when all the focus should be on grass and the us open and it's masters.

 
If you'd told me Federer was going to win any one of the tournaments he has won, I'd have been delighted.

If you'd told me he was going to win all three I'd have said we must have gotten in a DeLorean and gone back to 2007.

Truly insane.  Doesn't even make sense.

 
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Dentist said:
If you'd told me Federer was going to win any one of the tournaments he has won, I'd have been delighted.

If you'd told me he was going to win all three I'd have said we must have gotten in a DeLorean and gone back to 2007.

Truly insane.  Doesn't even make sense.
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There is one obvious answer

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
There is one obvious answer
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You going the PEDs route, or the injury/decline of Djokavic/Murray?

I tell you that Kyrigos guy and Zverev are looking like guys that are going to start winning slams pretty soon if not this year.   Don't like Kyrigos, but he definitely has the talent.

 
Dentist said:
You going the PEDs route, or the injury/decline of Djokavic/Murray?

I tell you that Kyrigos guy and Zverev are looking like guys that are going to start winning slams pretty soon if not this year.   Don't like Kyrigos, but he definitely has the talent.
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I was going with PEDs, I'm a huge fan but that seems like the logical answer. I had a hard time thinking a new racket is solely the reason he is ripping his backhand like at no other time in his history.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
I was going with PEDs, I'm a huge fan but that seems like the logical answer. I had a hard time thinking a new racket is solely the reason he is ripping his backhand like at no other time in his history.
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Obviously I hope not.

I don't think there's a ped for "backhand"  though...  it's a technique thing...  what ped improves "technique"?

My theory is that the 6 months out of the game did him wonders...   I think every player needs time to work on their game, but the top players get maybe 6 weeks off and of that, much of it is spent on their foundation, advertising, brand, appearances, etc.

I think tennis really needs a good off-season... and I think Fed and Nadal have both proved it...   whenever Nadal took an injury break he got his body right and worked on his game often bringing something new to the table.

Federer I think spent the whole 6 months just perfecting the new racket and his backhand...  he had time to really work on his game for the first time in YEARS.

Combine that with the fact that Djoker and Murray have bombed from every tournament this year, and the nextGen isn't totally ready for prime time.. and here you are.

Furthermore, I think Nadal is definitely off his hard court high of 2009-13 when he won all his hard court slams... and off his peak in general... and Federer has really been better since '15 when he appeared in 2 slam finals...  but they just never met aside from Basel in '15.. and then injuries crushed everything in '16.

It's going to be very interesting to see where the rest of the year goes....  almost anything is possible this year...   Nadal wins the French? sure.   Fed takes Wimbledon?  would anyone be shocked?   NextGEN player takes USO?  sure

 
I use the backhand as an example because it is a strength shot. Also look at Fed's endurance this year as a further sign. Perhaps there is some merit to your time off argument, I'd like to think so but I'm skeptical. Personally, I don't really care as I'm enjoying this late career surge but it sure would make sense.

 
I don't know about PEDs but I do know that if Fed keeps this up Mrs. Dentist is going to need some PEDs for the pounding her ##### will be taking from @Dentist.  I'll let others insert the obvious Fed mask jokes. 

 
Fed was the #1 seed at the French Open six times and never won. His lone title at Roland Garros came in 2009 as the 2 seed.

Re-writing history with no Rafa:

2005 - Fed lost to Nadal in Semis in his 2nd of 5 straight #1 seeds. He had never been past 3R but give him this one.

2006 - unseeded Joker lost to Nadal in the quarters, let's say Fed over Novak in the finals of our revisionist history. B2B titles for Fed, and his first calendar GS.

2007 - Djokovic's revenge? Certainly debatable, he has a winning record versus Roger and is 4-4 on clay. If we give this to Federer, that's B2B calendar grand slams and 10 straight GS wins. Or put another way, he won 8 out of 10 GS tournaments while Rafa picked up his first two at Roland Garros.

2008 - I got Novak - lost in the semis to Rafael - winning because he hadn't dropped a set through the quarters. Gives him consecutive GS titles, but he won't win another for 3 years.

2009 - Söderling beat 4x champ Nadal in the 4R, lost to Fed in the Finals. No change.

2010 - Söderling took out Fed in the quarters, he wins his first title here.

2011 - Federer wins his fourth clay court GS, over Murray? You could make a case this was Andy's time with no Nadal around.

2012 - #1 seed Novak all the way.

2013 - see above.

2014 - see above.

So Rafa's 9 titles go: Fed - 3 (4 overall), Novak - 4 (5 overall), Murray - 1, Söderling - 1.

2015 - Stan was the man, no change. How did Joker NOT win the calendar GS that year?

2016 - Djokovic wins his first French IRL, his 5th in revisionist history, and 16th overall - well behind Federer's 20 (he would win his 21st at the 2017 Australian.)

 
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BobbyLayne said:
Fed was the #1 seed at the French Open six times and never won. His lone title at Roland Garros came in 2009 as the 2 seed.

Re-writing history with no Rafa:

2005 - Fed lost to Nadal in Semis in his 2nd of 5 straight #1 seeds. He had never been past 3R but give him this one.

2006 - unseeded Joker lost to Nadal in the quarters, let's say Fed over Novak in the finals of our revisionist history. B2B titles for Fed, and his first calendar GS.

2007 - Djokovic's revenge? Certainly debatable, he has a winning record versus Roger and is 4-4 on clay. If we give this to Federer, that's B2B calendar grand slams and 10 straight GS wins. Or put another way, he won 8 out of 10 GS tournaments while Rafa picked up his first two at Roland Garros.

2008 - I got Novak - lost in the semis to Rafael - winning because he hadn't dropped a set through the quarters. Gives him consecutive GS titles, but he won't win another for 3 years.

2009 - Söderling beat 4x champ Nadal in the 4R, lost to Fed in the Finals. No change.

2010 - Söderling took out Fed in the quarters, he wins his first title here.

2011 - Federer wins his fourth clay court GS, over Murray? You could make a case this was Andy's time with no Nadal around.

2012 - #1 seed Novak all the way.

2013 - see above.

2014 - see above.

So Rafa's 9 titles go: Fed - 3 (4 overall), Novak - 4 (5 overall), Murray - 1, Söderling - 1.

2015 - Stan was the man, no change. How did Joker NOT win the calendar GS that year?

2016 - Djokovic wins his first French IRL, his 5th in revisionist history, and 16th overall - well behind Federer's 20 (he would win his 21st at the 2017 Australian.)
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I'll disagree with the 2008 result, but the rest seems well done.

What's also great about my aborted Ralph scenario is that Fed gets another Wimbledon and another AO as well.

Though I do wonder if Federer might have lost motivation after winning major #15,  having multiple Calendar Year Slams, not having any real competition until Djokavic emerged, breaking the weeks at #1 record very early...  in some sense having the pain of those losses to Ralph is what pushed him to be as good as he was on clay, and caused him to keep working on his game to win that 2012 Wimbledon and even this year's AO

 
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Absolutely @Dentist - pain is an incredible motivator. 

We're lucky to live an era with three of the five greatest of Open era.

interesting leaderboard

Fed 3rd, Noel 30th, Rafa 81st. Just one aspect of play and obviously Nadal is the best defensive returner of all-time. Guy had incredible wheels at his peak, his first couple steps are insanely quick.

But I bring it up because serving isn't the first thing you think about with Roger. Greatest forehand of all-time, Federer all the way (Joker is def top ten.) Greatest shot maker - consensus is again Roger, though Rafa is in the conversation. None of those three have a tremendous backhand relative to Connor, Edberg, Borg, some of the older guys. 

On artistry alone, I think Roger Federer is the GoAT. The argument is hurt by the H2H (22-23 v Djokovic and 14-23 v. Nadal), but the latter is skewed by 2-13 on clay. He's got a winning record v. Rafa on grass & hardcourt.

Depending on how you value Masters, Djokovic has two seasons better than Fed's peak (& he's maybe 5th all-time, distant 3rd in career accomplishments in this cohort.) Novak has a winning record against both.

We've never seen the sustained excellence of a top 2 like Federer and Nadal over 6 seasons (2005-10.) That was followed by Noel having several historically great seasons 2011-15. 

My money is on Nole this fortnight.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Absolutely @Dentist - pain is an incredible motivator. 

We're lucky to live an era with three of the five greatest of Open era.

interesting leaderboard

Fed 3rd, Noel 30th, Rafa 81st. Just one aspect of play and obviously Nadal is the best defensive returner of all-time. Guy had incredible wheels at his peak, his first couple steps are insanely quick.

But I bring it up because serving isn't the first thing you think about with Roger. Greatest forehand of all-time, Federer all the way (Joker is def top ten.) Greatest shot maker - consensus is again Roger, though Rafa is in the conversation. None of those three have a tremendous backhand relative to Connor, Edberg, Borg, some of the older guys. 

On artistry alone, I think Roger Federer is the GoAT. The argument is hurt by the H2H (22-23 v Djokovic and 14-23 v. Nadal), but the latter is skewed by 2-13 on clay. He's got a winning record v. Rafa on grass & hardcourt.

Depending on how you value Masters, Djokovic has two seasons better than Fed's peak (& he's maybe 5th all-time, distant 3rd in career accomplishments in this cohort.) Novak has a winning record against both.

We've never seen the sustained excellence of a top 2 like Federer and Nadal over 6 seasons (2005-10.) That was followed by Noel having several historically great seasons 2011-15. 

My money is on Nole this fortnight.
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Masters shields are an interesting thing.   I feel like they have gained importance in terms of how we view things but only somewhat recently..   I don't think anyone was talking that much about their equivalents in the Sampras/Agassi era.

Also there are no masters on grass, yet 3 on Clay...  and somehow Year End Championships aren't counted with masters, yet count more.

But man Djoker is going to end up with a ton more than Federer..   even Murray could end up with more... 

 
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How can I watch Nadal-Thiem live? NBC, for whatever reason, is showing a reply of the women's semi-final. This is what they think people want to watch? wtf

 
effin' Nadal..   hasn't dropped a set.   I really thought he was done..  this is a bummer and makes the 2017 AO Federer won just so important legacy-wise.

Fingers crossed for Stan to do to him what he did at the '14 AO which was a huge save for the Fed-legacy at the time.

Stan is one of those guys that has just shocked the hell out of me...  when he blew Djoker of the court in '15 at the FO final it was one of the more amazing performances i'd seen.   How the guy doesn't win masters or 500's but shows up STRONG at slams outside of Wimbledon is incredible these days.

Swing hard Stan!.. just swing effing hard Sunday

 
Dentist said:
effin' Nadal..   hasn't dropped a set.   I really thought he was done..  this is a bummer and makes the 2017 AO Federer won just so important legacy-wise.

Fingers crossed for Stan to do to him what he did at the '14 AO which was a huge save for the Fed-legacy at the time.

Stan is one of those guys that has just shocked the hell out of me...  when he blew Djoker of the court in '15 at the FO final it was one of the more amazing performances i'd seen.   How the guy doesn't win masters or 500's but shows up STRONG at slams outside of Wimbledon is incredible these days.

Swing hard Stan!.. just swing effing hard Sunday
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You realize that Stan has no chance right?  This will be 15 for Rafa?  10 being French?  That's not GOAT material at all.

 
James Daulton said:
You realize that Stan has no chance right?  This will be 15 for Rafa?  10 being French?  That's not GOAT material at all.
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I thought he had no chance at the '14 AO...  going into that match he'd never taken a SET off Rafa.

over the past few years he's actually more like 3-4 against him.. and has beaten him on outdoor clay.   he's got a 1/10 shot.

Ralph would be well on the GOAT train if it wasn't for GOATerer.    9 French Opens is silly..   10 is absurd..  You have to wonder how many people could even play 10 French Opens in their career... let alone win them.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Stan is 3-0 on GS finals
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If there was one guy in the field that could hit for the fences and pull this off like soderling, it's Stan.  Murray would've been destroyed.

Vegas gives him about a 20 percent chance, feels high but maybe about right.  I think it could have been that high but not on the heels of a 4.5 hour slug fest.

High hopes for Ralph to turn an ankle during the match or for Stan to be playing in 2015 finals god mode

 
Dentist said:
I hope the guy brings it hard against Nadal on Sunday...  That's a long match to recover from when Nadal has spent so little time on court
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:(

 
Women's tennis is unwatchable with the yelping.  And Nadal's moaning is not much better.

 
So when do they rename Phllippe Chatrier court after Rafa?  Or do they just rename the entire complex Rafa's House?  10 championships in a single major is just ridiculous.  He lost just 33 games for the entire tournament.  Insane.

 
Is it 2007 again?  Federer sweeps the hard court, nadal crushes clay.. We'll see what happens on grass, another Fedal final? 

 
Hov34 said:
Women's tennis is unwatchable with the yelping.  And Nadal's moaning is not much better.
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Started storming here so I turned the TV on and started flipping - some women's match was on and it was unbelievably annoying - unwatchable with the sound on.

 
Hov34 said:
Wimbledon = boring tennis.
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because of the serve dominance?  all the tie-breaks?    Eh, I mean Ralph was able to win this with his above average serve... so I don't feel like it's as serve dominant as it was in the Sampras days.  Clay is just as boring with the long slug fests.

Really hard court is where it's at in the overall scheme of things.

 
Dentist said:
Hov34 said:
Wimbledon = boring tennis.
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because of the serve dominance?  all the tie-breaks?    Eh, I mean Ralph was able to win this with his above average serve... so I don't feel like it's as serve dominant as it was in the Sampras days.  Clay is just as boring with the long slug fests.

Really hard court is where it's at in the overall scheme of things.
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Yes, most of the returns are just stabs and blocks.  Point over with too quickly.  It's my least favorite of the majors.

 
Hov34 said:
Yes, most of the returns are just stabs and blocks.  Point over with too quickly.  It's my least favorite of the majors.
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Something for everyone in tennis I guess.   I guess that's why we have multiple surfaces.   I dislike clay,  I dislike France, and I dislike Nadal.

 
Dentist said:
Something for everyone in tennis I guess.   I guess that's why we have multiple surfaces.   I dislike clay,  I dislike France, and I dislike Nadal.
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Let's say someone offered you the opportunity to retire 2 years early with whatever you'd have had by working and saving like a little squirrel for the two years, but you had to go to France, watch the next French Open Final in Nadal gear, and when he dispatches Fed for his 19th major you had to give Nadal the trophy and proclaim him your favorite athlete of all time and give him a big sweaty hug. 

Yay or nay?

 
James Daulton said:
Let's say someone offered you the opportunity to retire 2 years early with whatever you'd have had by working and saving like a little squirrel for the two years, but you had to go to France, watch the next French Open Final in Nadal gear, and when he dispatches Fed for his 19th major you had to give Nadal the trophy and proclaim him your favorite athlete of all time and give him a big sweaty hug. 

Yay or nay?
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Interesting. 

I've watched hundreds of hours of Federer over the years and spent countless more debating and defending him online.

Federer is like a religion for me, I feel super confident he's going to still be the all time leader in majors at my time of demise.

I don't think my heart could take it, two more years of filings for me I guess.  

 
Dentist said:
Interesting. 

I've watched hundreds of hours of Federer over the years and spent countless more debating and defending him online.

Federer is like a religion for me, I feel super confident he's going to still be the all time leader in majors at my time of demise.

I don't think my heart could take it, two more years of filings for me I guess.  
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Your love for Fed outweighs your love for retirement.  Interesting.

I hope he wins a couple more for you @Dentist  :thumbup:

 
James Daulton said:
Your love for Fed outweighs your love for retirement.  Interesting.

I hope he wins a couple more for you @Dentist  :thumbup:
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Thanks.  I know he's listed as the favorite for this Wimbledon, but I would still be surprised if he won.

Frankly at this point I'm already concerned at how good Nadal looks on grass.

While Federer winning Wimbledon again would be a real dream..  the tournament is a success to me if Nadal doesn't come anywhere near winning it.

 
Bethanie Mattek-Sands appears to have snapped her right patellar tendon. Kneecap was 6" north of where it should be.  :X

 
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