The 2014 NFL Draft All-Overrated Team: Vanderbilt WR Jordan Matthews (1 Viewer)

[renesauz]

FTR, it was 2 drops.

(Still disappointing though)

I don't care what PFT has he most certainly dropped 3....and 2 were bad drops. The one would have been a tough catch but he had both hands on the ball all the way down to the ground.

It's not a drop when the defender has his hands between the WRs body and the ball the entire time. Would have been an amazing catch

It's a drop if it hits the players hands. Not all drops are created equal but all players have the same situations come up where they get a "drop" that was really difficult. It's a pretty subjective thing in reality and hence some are using different numbers.I'm not sure why we are talking about these semantics anyway. He had 2 others. It's not like taking that one away changes things a great deal. Does it make you feel that much better to say he dropped 2 passes instead of 3?

If this is how the "official" drop metric is actually calculated, then that stat is extremely flawed. Given the inherently small sample size of drops for each player, the ratios of easy to difficult "drops" won't automatically even out when comparing different players.

Several of us have been calling the stat flawed for a while now. It's the most subjective stat there is. It's very similar to, and possibly even more subjective than, an error in baseball.

There's also a difference between stripping the ball from a WR who had the opportunity to bring the ball into his body and is upright the whole time, and stripping it from a WR who was falling and never had the opportunity to pull it in. Much like the error in baseball, a drop can only be given on a routine play. That was NOT a routine play for any WR.

 

[jurb26]

FTR, it was 2 drops.

(Still disappointing though)

I don't care what PFT has he most certainly dropped 3....and 2 were bad drops. The one would have been a tough catch but he had both hands on the ball all the way down to the ground.

It's not a drop when the defender has his hands between the WRs body and the ball the entire time. Would have been an amazing catch

It's a drop if it hits the players hands. Not all drops are created equal but all players have the same situations come up where they get a "drop" that was really difficult. It's a pretty subjective thing in reality and hence some are using different numbers.I'm not sure why we are talking about these semantics anyway. He had 2 others. It's not like taking that one away changes things a great deal. Does it make you feel that much better to say he dropped 2 passes instead of 3?

Well then write the guys who grade these things and tell them to change how they do it. If every one like that gets called a drop then drop rates for all WRs would double.Of course, what then is a pass defended for a CB? (Hint- that went down as a pass defended)

Why would I write the guys who score it? I'm not upset about the number either way, you seem to be. Like I said, go ahead and use 2 if it makes you feel that much better. Hint, not everyone scores them the way you want them too.

 

[John Paul]

This dichotomy should've been decided by the 1st preseason game in 2014. I am disappointed in all of us.

If we do better, we might get it right by game 2 preseason.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

FTR, it was 2 drops.

(Still disappointing though)

I don't care what PFT has he most certainly dropped 3....and 2 were bad drops. The one would have been a tough catch but he had both hands on the ball all the way down to the ground.

It's not a drop when the defender has his hands between the WRs body and the ball the entire time. Would have been an amazing catch

It's a drop if it hits the players hands. Not all drops are created equal but all players have the same situations come up where they get a "drop" that was really difficult. It's a pretty subjective thing in reality and hence some are using different numbers.I'm not sure why we are talking about these semantics anyway. He had 2 others. It's not like taking that one away changes things a great deal. Does it make you feel that much better to say he dropped 2 passes instead of 3?

If this is how the "official" drop metric is actually calculated, then that stat is extremely flawed. Given the inherently small sample size of drops for each player, the ratios of easy to difficult "drops" won't automatically even out when comparing different players.

Several of us have been calling the stat flawed for a while now. It's the most subjective stat there is. It's very similar to, and possibly even more subjective than, an error in baseball.

There's also a difference between stripping the ball from a WR who had the opportunity to bring the ball into his body and is upright the whole time, and stripping it from a WR who was falling and never had the opportunity to pull it in. Much like the error in baseball, a drop can only be given on a routine play. That was NOT a routine play for any WR.

I don't if it's more subjective than tackles, but we are splitting hairs here anyway. Good post!

 

[werdnoynek]

In this case does it really matter what is a drop or what isn't? As others have said, it was pretty clear this was a poor performance.

It's also clear (to some, it seems) that this was a concern coming in. He seems to catch everything in practice, but practice is practice.

Let's see what he does this week.

 

[Khy]

In this case does it really matter what is a drop or what isn't? As others have said, it was pretty clear this was a poor performance.

It's also clear (to some, it seems) that this was a concern coming in. He seems to catch everything in practice, but practice is practice.

Let's see what he does this week.

Exactly, the point here isn't "What's a drop" and "What's not a drop". The point is, he had a horrible performance. The term "Camp Star" exists for a reason. He had a reputation of dropping a lot of balls in college, then he comes to the NFL and in his first game time drops 3 passes, two of which were easy catches, one of which was downright embarrassing.

Fact is, the kid has clown sized hands yet he seems to have troubles catching the ball. Whether that's jitters or not, it was a problem in college and now a problem in the NFL. David Wilson and Ronnie Hillman never fumble(d) in practice either. But put them on a field and they #### bricks and drop the ball seemingly on purpose. Some people can look like the second coming of Jesus in practice but once the pads and lights come on they can't do what needs to be done.

Is that the case for Matthews? No of course not, the jury is still very much out on him. But this was a concern coming out of Vandy and that first preseason game did nothing to eliminate that concern. Trying to deny these facts is just irresponsible.

 

[Amused to Death]

In this case does it really matter what is a drop or what isn't? As others have said, it was pretty clear this was a poor performance.

It's also clear (to some, it seems) that this was a concern coming in. He seems to catch everything in practice, but practice is practice.

Let's see what he does this week.

Exactly, the point here isn't "What's a drop" and "What's not a drop". The point is, he had a horrible performance. The term "Camp Star" exists for a reason. He had a reputation of dropping a lot of balls in college, then he comes to the NFL and in his first game time drops 3 passes, two of which were easy catches, one of which was downright embarrassing.

Fact is, the kid has clown sized hands yet he seems to have troubles catching the ball. Whether that's jitters or not, it was a problem in college and now a problem in the NFL. David Wilson and Ronnie Hillman never fumble(d) in practice either. But put them on a field and they #### bricks and drop the ball seemingly on purpose. Some people can look like the second coming of Jesus in practice but once the pads and lights come on they can't do what needs to be done.

Is that the case for Matthews? No of course not, the jury is still very much out on him. But this was a concern coming out of Vandy and that first preseason game did nothing to eliminate that concern. Trying to deny these facts is just irresponsible.

Yet some very successful WRs have had high drop %. Fact is, he's going to be the slot receiver on a very high powered offense. High ceiling for sure. We don't know yet where the floor is. Hopefully shows improvement as the games go along.

And I think "poor performance" is a bit harsh. Disappointing compared to what he's shown in training camp.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Tim McManus‏@Tim_McManus12 mins

Matthews having a good day against the Pats. Got loose deep on one on ones, just caught pass from Sanchez about 20 yards along sideline

Eliot Shorr-Parks‏@EliotShorrParks15 mins

Sanchez with a nice 30+ yard pass to Matthews in 11on11 #Eagles

Eliot Shorr-Parks‏@EliotShorrParks34 mins

Foles TD to Matthews in 7o7 #Eagles

 

[cloppbeast]

Yet some very successful WRs have had high drop %. Fact is, he's going to be the slot receiver on a very high powered offense. High ceiling for sure. We don't know yet where the floor is.

I'm pretty sure we do know his floor, as his nay sayers have pointed out.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Jeff McLane‏@Jeff_McLane48 secs

Jordan Matthews looking like Jordan Matthews in training camp, not in Chicago.

 

[Demian]

4 pages of his hands suck, his hands don't suck.

 

[werdnoynek]

4 pages of his hands suck, his hands don't suck.

You're right, they're just not good.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Same stance since day one. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=704467&view=findpost&p=16873695

No big deal to me. I'll just buy Matthews for half the price in Nov-Dec.

 

[Brewtown]

I wonder if Bloom is watching the game?

Matthews ain't dropping anything tonight!

BEAST!!

 

[georg013]

Nice line for Matthews. He did this all against the first team right?

 

[ShaHBucks]

Nice line for Matthews. He did this all against the first team right?

Nah

 

[jurb26]

Nice line for Matthews. He did this all against the first team right?

I don't think any of it was against 1st team.

 

[georg013]

Nice line for Matthews. He did this all against the first team right?

I don't think any of it was against 1st team.

oh

 

[One More Rep]

He is catching passes, but looks slow to me

 

[georg013]

He is catching passes, but looks slow to me

Must be your tv. He is as fast as Watkins.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Nice line for Matthews. He did this all against the first team right?

I don't think any of it was against 1st team.

1st and 10 at NE 44 (7:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) N.Foles pass short right to J.Matthews to NE 40 for 4 yards (K.Arrington).

 

[georg013]

Nice line for Matthews. He did this all against the first team right?

I don't think any of it was against 1st team.

1st and 10 at NE 44 (7:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) N.Foles pass short right to J.Matthews to NE 40 for 4 yards (K.Arrington).

BEAST!

 

[One More Rep]

He is catching passes, but looks slow to me

Must be your tv. He is as fast as Watkins.

I know he is a 4.4 guy

 

[ShaHBucks]

Lets just call it even guys

 

[John Paul]

9 targets, 9 for 104 with no TDs at end of 3rd. Nothing complicated but he's made some decent moves and got some work in tonight. I'm happy to see him featured and get more comfortable. No need to get too high and definitely no need to crap on the stat line.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Look its this simple. If Riley Cooper can be productive in the Eagles offense Jordan Matthews wont have a problem.

 

[John Paul]

On a side note, I'd like to see Boyce get that sort of attention and see if anything special happens.

 

[cstu]

I know it's only preseason but who was the last WR to catch 9 passes in a game?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I won't be able to watch the game until Sunday at the earliest.

Can anyone give a quick summary of who the supporting cast was when Matthews did most of his damage? 1st/2nd/3rd team? Sanchez or Barkley (Foles?), etc…?

TIA

 

[ShaHBucks]

I know it's only preseason but who was the last WR to catch 9 passes in a game?

DT in the Superbowl?

 

[Milkman]

Where's everybody at? You see the pattern right? Matthews does bad milkman comes in here and eats his crow. Matthews blows up and all the regs run for the hills. Nothing crazy just a monster game in the preseason.

 

[BuzzCagney]

He is catching passes, but looks slow to me

He's slowly catching passes?

 

[One More Rep]

He is catching passes, but looks slow to me

He's slowly catching passes?

Just did not look like 4.4 speed to me. I am an owner in quite a few Dynasties so not trying to bash him.

 

[cstu]

I know it's only preseason but who was the last WR to catch 9 passes in a game?

DT in the Superbowl?

Sorry, I meant a rookie during the preseason. Seems like a lot of passes to catch in the preseason, let alone by a rookie.

 

[georg013]

I know it's only preseason but who was the last WR to catch 9 passes in a game?

DT in the Superbowl?

Sorry, I meant a rookie during the preseason. Seems like a lot of passes to catch in the preseason, let alone by a rookie.

How many rookies play as long as he played?

 

[John Paul]

4.46 is over 40 yards, are you saying it did not look like a 1.55 split? Kid is strong, smart. It shows, he's learning inside/out. I didn't see any deep targets for him tonight.

 

[Brewtown]

In this case does it really matter what is a drop or what isn't? As others have said, it was pretty clear this was a poor performance.

It's also clear (to some, it seems) that this was a concern coming in. He seems to catch everything in practice, but practice is practice.

Let's see what he does this week.

Bloom - O - Bloom - O Where Art Though Bloom?

 

[werdnoynek]

Sanchez seemed to only have eyes for Matthews this week and understandably so - it appeared that Pats were practicing zone d this week. He had some nice dink and dunk grabs, the one thing I noticed was there were no contested grabs. The zone coverage all night left every catch wide open with space to run. He did well with what he had and actually caught everything thrown his way. Hands looked much better tonight but again, everything was uncontested and wide open - at this level you expect it.

Next week I'd like to see him do more against man coverage where he struggled in college.

 

[Milkman]

Hey Werd did you think he still looked slow? He looked slower tonight off the line than he did in his college tape. Not sure if he has put on weight or what.

 

[Brewtown]

Sanchez seemed to only have eyes for Matthews this week and understandably so - it appeared that Pats were practicing zone d this week. He had some nice dink and dunk grabs, the one thing I noticed was there were no contested grabs. The zone coverage all night left every catch wide open with space to run. He did well with what he had and actually caught everything thrown his way. Hands looked much better tonight but again, everything was uncontested and wide open - at this level you expect it.

Next week I'd like to see him do more against man coverage where he struggled in college.

This guy...

 

[One More Rep]

4.46 is over 40 yards, are you saying it did not look like a 1.55 split? Kid is strong, smart. It shows, he's learning inside/out. I didn't see any deep targets for him tonight.

Looked slow with the ball in his hands in space

 

[LawFitz]

4.46 is over 40 yards, are you saying it did not look like a 1.55 split? Kid is strong, smart. It shows, he's learning inside/out. I didn't see any deep targets for him tonight.

Looked slow with the ball in his hands in space

I'm a huge Matthews fan, and I agree with you. Slow is maybe a bit harsh, but definitely did not look explosive. That said, he also looks bigger than I remember him in college. I think he's already put on 5 or more lbs of muscle.

 

[One More Rep]

4.46 is over 40 yards, are you saying it did not look like a 1.55 split? Kid is strong, smart. It shows, he's learning inside/out. I didn't see any deep targets for him tonight.

Looked slow with the ball in his hands in space

I'm a huge Matthews fan, and I agree with you. Slow is maybe a bit harsh, but definitely did not look explosive. That said, he also looks bigger than I remember him in college. I think he's already put on 5 or more lbs of muscle.

Okay less explosive works. We will see if the added weight helps him with contested throws his way

 

[werdnoynek]

4.46 is over 40 yards, are you saying it did not look like a 1.55 split? Kid is strong, smart. It shows, he's learning inside/out. I didn't see any deep targets for him tonight.

Looked slow with the ball in his hands in space

I'm a huge Matthews fan, and I agree with you. Slow is maybe a bit harsh, but definitely did not look explosive. That said, he also looks bigger than I remember him in college. I think he's already put on 5 or more lbs of muscle.

Okay less explosive works. We will see if the added weight helps him with contested throws his way

He had a lot of space to run last night... it was a perfect game for him to do exactly what excelled at in Vandy. He never really looked all that sudden when I watched him there and certainly doesn't now. I can't agree with the less explosive comment, he never was explosive.

So far Bloom seemed to have hit the nail right on the head, IMO - showed the zone "beating" ability last night. It was nice to see him complete all his catches, but again he was wide open against this zone all night.

 

[Faust]

Jordan Matthews flashes potential for Eagles

 

[Brewtown]

He looks like he is gonna be a good one!!!

 

[Khy]

He looks like he is gonna be a good one!!!

2 for 16... Book his ticket to Canton.

 

[Milkman]

LOL notice when Khy posts in here and when he doesn't. lol Khy

 

[Boston]

Jordan Matthews flashes potential for Eagles

Obviously you have to take everything with a grain of salt in preaseason but I really like what I see in these highlights...the big thing that stuck out to me is the edge he plays with and how aggressive he is...you can't teach that...you either have it or you don't...he doesn't think twice when he gives Logan Ryan the stiff-arm and he bounces up from that play with some attitude...he runs real hard after the catch and looks like he is going after every yard...the kid plays like he wants to be real good...the Philly WR unit is very intriguing...you know there will be some nice numbers but how they get spread around is a question...for those in keeper/dynasty leagues I think Mathews is a guy that you really have to look at in a big way...he has a great opportunity as a rookie to put up some fantasy-relevant #'s...

 

[WagesOfZin]

his numbers last night don't matter any more than they did the previous two weeks. what DOES matter is that he was running as the WR3 along with maclin and cooper. it looks like he has claimed the job he was originally slated for by the 3rd preseason game.