Card Trader
Footballguy
Good move with the full refund for those that already purchased cases. Well done Apple.
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The Apple iPhone Thread (3 Viewers)
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Harry Manback
Footballguy
Card Trader
Footballguy
Have a coworker here who bought 2 bumpers since one broke on her, hopefully she can get the refund on both of them.Very happy about this.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
Jobs says iPhone 4 drops less than 1 additional call per 100 calls than 3GS?!?!?
More Jobs Kool Aid
More Jobs Kool Aid
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
Harry Manback
Footballguy
She can never hurt you again GB, it's gonna be ok. It's not your fault chief.
Walton Goggins
Footballguy
"Chief" I like that GB squaw.
Chargers86
Footballguy
So...are they going to fix the models that are still in production in China?
how do we get free stuff?
siffoin
Footballguy
I'm constantly amazed at how much power and influence Apple has over our economy. Representing something like 20% of the Nasdaq 100. All of this essentially for a toy company.
Steve Jobs "We're not perfect"
with a $250 stock priced for perfection that might not be the best thing to say.
Their toys are pretty cool however. Even my 69 year old mom wants one.
Steve Jobs "We're not perfect"
with a $250 stock priced for perfection that might not be the best thing to say.
Their toys are pretty cool however. Even my 69 year old mom wants one.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So how and where and when do you get the free case? Are there specific types that are free and others that are not?
California
Footballguy
Details on the free case will be up on the Apple website by the end of next week, per Jobs. It sounds like an online sign up type thing.
Card Trader
Footballguy
Excuses was the wrong term...deflections would have been more applicable.This Q&A is fairly laughable though, I like how he was challenged to reproduce it on someone's Bold but then balked.
goonsquad
Think different.
Considering Abraham is an EVO owner that only enforces iSquabbling in his EVO threads while allowing the Apple trolls to continue carte blanche, I'm not exactly surprised.
goonsquad
Think different.
No reason to let facts get in the way of a good torch-wielding mob.
speaking of which, he keeps accidentally closing FFA threads while browsing the forums on his EVO phone while I've yet to accidentally close a single thread with my iphone.case closed.Considering Abraham is an EVO owner that only enforces iSquabbling in his EVO threads while allowing the Apple trolls to continue carte blanche, I'm not exactly surprised.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Is there a distinction between case and bumper on this free deal? He states that they wont have enough bumpers for everybody, so they are offering a slew of cases . . . does this slew of cases include the bumpers?
California
Footballguy
Hmm, bumpers are not available for sale online at all now. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC597ZM/A?mco=MTgxOTQ0ODA
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
speaking of which, he keeps accidentally closing FFA threads while browsing the forums on his EVO phone while I've yet to accidentally close a single thread with my iphone.case closed.Considering Abraham is an EVO owner that only enforces iSquabbling in his EVO threads while allowing the Apple trolls to continue carte blanche, I'm not exactly surprised.
Abraham
Footballguy
What part of my post is untrue?No reason to let facts get in the way of a good torch-wielding mob.
goonsquad
Think different.
Considering the mainstream media uproar was in response to the Consumer Reports review, CR still scored the iPhone 4 with the highest overall rating off all other smart phones. So their rating backs up the claim that "it is the best". As for the reception issue, CR also had the iPhone 4 scored higher in reception than all previous iPhone models. The point of Apple saying that all cell phones suffer some interference from human contact is simply pointing out that while Apple's exterior antennae design is at fault for these specific issues, this isn't a completely isolated issue with the iPhone 4.
You are contradicting yourself here. Either people didn't call AppleCare because they heard that there is no fix, or they didn't return it because they are waiting for Apple to fix it. If they heard there is no fix, they wouldn't be waiting for Apple to fix it. The simple fact of the matter is that if this iPhone truly didn't work, people would be lined up to return it. But it does work, and even with the antennae issue, it still works better than all previous iPhones.I'd say the MOST OBVIOUS reason AppleCare calls and store returns are so low is because in actual use the antennae issue isn't as damaging to reception as the hype makes it sound. Just as the first-hand accounts from well-known tech journalists showed, the 'death grip' is something that does occur but usually only when the user sets out to intentionally re-create the antennae short and are in areas of already shoddy reception. And even then call drops are very rare.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Didn't Jobs say today that i4 drops more calls than the 3GS?
Abraham
Footballguy
From a marketing standpoint, Jobs marginalized the Apple brand by even comparing it to those devices. I am not talking about CR and ratings - I'm talking about Jobs presentation today.
No, I'm not contradicting myself. People can hear that there is no available fix and still be hopeful that some OTA fix is coming. That's why the NYT piece yesterday that said a software patch was coming gathered so much steam, and why Jobs denounced it in the Q/A. And we'll have to disagree about people "being lined up to return it." I think that the antenna issue is causing a little frustration with people but for the most part that phone works and people are happy. My point is that Apple has positiond itself as the premier brand and the iPhone as the premier phone. To start off by telling customers "you're holding it wrong" then telling them "this is an industry-wide, acceptable degredation of signal" is not how they should have handled it. Making their brand common to the lesser-regarded competition is something people are taught how NOT to do the first day of marketing school.
Agreed. As I said above I think its probably a non-issue for most users and a slight annoyance for the rest. I'm not bagging on the device; I'm sure it's wonderful. I'm bagging on how APple handled the whole thing. From my blog
Abraham
Footballguy
I like the iPhone and imagine this iteration (with multi-tasking, copy/paste, etc.) would fit my needs very well. But I chose the EVO and have been very happy with it as a replacement to my Bold (AT&T).So is Abraham debating getting an iPhone
culdeus
Footballguy
The Zagg is getting horrific reviews on Amazon. I'm looking for another option.I bought the clear Switch Easy Nude for iPhone 4. Should be here early this week so I'll let you know how I like it.
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
The shark move is to find their stand in the mall and have them put it on. I don't even notice I have it onI bought the clear Switch Easy Nude for iPhone 4. Should be here early this week so I'll let you know how I like it.i just got the ZAGG Invisible Shield for my iP4, which I used on my 3G. i hate using cases. Try to keep it as slim and sleek as possible.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
Gotta applaud Apple for having the balls to do something but it shouldn't have come to this.
Otis
Footballguy
Not sure if I said it in this thread or the other, but if you can get the bumper I highly recommend it. Mrs. got one for hers and she loves it. It protects all the edges pretty nicely, doesn't add much bulk, and almost looks like it was designed as part of the phone (hell, maybe it was). Very slick looking.
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goonsquad
Think different.
Completely disagree. His point is that signal attenuation is an issue FOR ALL CELL PHONES. It is a limitation of the technology and a fact of life for all cell phone users. I guess you could argue that Apple's brand is so strong consumers hold them to a higher standard, but in some cases there are simply limitations in technology that users need to understand and except. The fact that they showed videos of the 'death grip' producing the exact same signal degradation on several other current and popular models makes this point very clearly. It is also a fact that Nokia ships several phones with explicit instructions on where to NOT hold the phone.
Actually, it sounds like we agree about the return lines. I've stated numerous times that while the 'death grip' is real, it is nowhere near as commonplace and damaging as the media hype has made it out the be. People aren't lining up to return the phones because "the phone works and people are happy". You're right. The actual everyday usage of the iPhone 4 is not the catastrophic failure that the media would have you believe. Jobs also stated very eloquently that part of being the market leader is to educate consumers on the limitations of the available technology. It's one thing to hold Apple to a higher standard, it's another to expect the impossible. I am not going to defend Apple's handling of the situation thus far. Clearly Steve Jobs' curt reply of "hold it differently" added to the media hurricane surrounding the issue.
As for your marketing example, I agree in a general sense but would point out that Apple is in 'Damage Control' mode, which is an entirely different set of rules than what they teach in Marketing 101. The objective of these comparisons was to 1) educate the consumer on the limitations of cell phone technology and 2) manage consumer expectations. A more apt comparison than your Ford mgp example would be looking at expected lifecycles of lythium batteries. Everyone would LOVE a battery that lasts 1,000 years, but the technology for such a battery doesn't exist. So you properly manage their expectation going in and they will except a lifespan of 300 charge cycles. So in this case, consumers need to understand that signal attenuation is an issue for all cell phones.
Abraham
Footballguy
Goon - your points make sense but here's the problem:
If Apple knew that there were "limitations of technology" when the device launched but promoted it as a new, best-in-class antenna then its a classic bait and switch (at worst) or false advertising (at best).
And if Apple didn't know that there were "limitations of technology" before the launch and only learned this in the last 22 days, what does that say about the engineers they have in Cupertino?
The "educate the consumer" line is genuine. But Apple's first pass at educating the consumer (the keynote) was that this was a BETTER, much improved antenna. IT was one of the big points of the keynote. So either (1) apple failed at its promise of a superior antenna or (2) apple didn't KNOW that it had failed to make a better antenna.
My point is that educating the consumer / managing expectations is ONLY coming to the forefront after the device has been released and millions have been sold. Where was this educating/managing when they were trying to launch the device on a wave of good feelings?
Its not about expecting the impossible. Its about Apple, which is happy to promote its items as being much better then everyone else's, actually following through on producing an item that is better then everyone else's. For JObs to say, "well, its the same antenna problem everyone has" isn't a discussion of the limits of technology as much as its an admission that the device is not superior as they claim it to be.
If Apple knew that there were "limitations of technology" when the device launched but promoted it as a new, best-in-class antenna then its a classic bait and switch (at worst) or false advertising (at best).
And if Apple didn't know that there were "limitations of technology" before the launch and only learned this in the last 22 days, what does that say about the engineers they have in Cupertino?
The "educate the consumer" line is genuine. But Apple's first pass at educating the consumer (the keynote) was that this was a BETTER, much improved antenna. IT was one of the big points of the keynote. So either (1) apple failed at its promise of a superior antenna or (2) apple didn't KNOW that it had failed to make a better antenna.
My point is that educating the consumer / managing expectations is ONLY coming to the forefront after the device has been released and millions have been sold. Where was this educating/managing when they were trying to launch the device on a wave of good feelings?
Its not about expecting the impossible. Its about Apple, which is happy to promote its items as being much better then everyone else's, actually following through on producing an item that is better then everyone else's. For JObs to say, "well, its the same antenna problem everyone has" isn't a discussion of the limits of technology as much as its an admission that the device is not superior as they claim it to be.
goonsquad
Think different.
Abe, I'd like to comment on this part of your blog as well:
IMO, the conclusion you drew (in bold) is way off base. You failed to mention that Jobs also pointed out the fact that "only 20% of iPhone 4 users are buying a case at the Apple store, whereas 80% of 3GS users got a case", which points to the higher dropped call rate being a result of the fact that a significantly higher percentage of 3Gs users have further insulated the antennae in the 3Gs versus users of the iPhone 4, which by definition means way less signal degradation is happening when users hold the phone. Nearly all published comparisons of the two models show that the iPhone 4 antennae (even with death grip) is a great improvement over the 3Gs and older models. Jobs in no way admitted that the 4 antennae is worse than the 3Gs.
Abraham
Footballguy
goonsquad
Think different.
I don't have a transcript of the Keynote handy, but from my recollection they were stressing the new antennae was head-and-shoulders above that of the previous iPhone models. I can't see calling it 'bait and switch' or 'false advertising' when every single review I've seen supports the claim that the iPhone 4 shows a dramatic increase in reception over the 3Gs. It IS a much improved antennae compared to previous iPhone models. In hindsight, it was obviously a design failure to not anticipate that the two antennae grooves on the sides would become a natural hand-hold location. I don't know if it was missed or considered an acceptable calculated risk, but it has blown up in their face in a way that no one could have imagined going in. Again, I say this because it is clear to me that 99% of users are not finding this to be a crippling flaw. All I can do is guess that Apple made a judgement call that the benefits of the antennae design far out-weighed any reasonably expected negatives. And all hype aside, this appears to be true.
I don't know how you would expect Apple to educate the consumer on this issue while promoting their new iPhone. Even though SUV's are prone to roll-overs, you don't see Jeep making commercials about the dangers of rolling a Wrangler if you turn too sharply. It is an issue that consumers have learned over time and come to accept over the years, but no vehicle company leads with it in their marketing. I suppose Apple could have followed Nokia's lead and put WARNING stickers on the side of the phone, just as SUV's have rollover stickers in the cab.
And finally, Apple has produced a phone that is superior. Consumer Reports rated it higher than ANY AND EVERY other smartphone on the market. And Apple is backing up their "promise" by offering complete refunds if you are not happy with it.
goonsquad
Think different.
Also, just want to thank Abe for engaging in a legitimate discussion about this. While we don't see eye-to-eye on the issue, it's refreshing to actually have an adult conversation without all the name calling and being dismissed as a 'fanboy'. It's a shame when intelligent posters like [icon] avoid these discussions because of the constant trolling.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
This may sound stupid and please tell me if it is, but can they just "rotate" the antenna band so that the part where you cover/touch which causes the signal loss is somewhere where you don't usually hold the phone, like on top or bottom? Sounds so simple but I guess it's not possible because of design?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Abraham
Footballguy
No idea. Nokia released a statement today saying that they focus on reception first and design second and they don't recall having any widespread reception issues on their phones. Nice to see the worlds biggest cell maker smell blood in the water.
Abraham
Footballguy
http://gigaom.com/2010/07/16/business-tips...ple-steve-jobs/
Interesting post with some perspective on the pc.
Interesting post with some perspective on the pc.
goonsquad
Think different.
Meh, more like sour grapes. Nothing but a cheap jab by a company losing it's market dominance to Apple.
Card Trader
Footballguy
That's because Jobs made it up, there isn't this same issue on other phones.
[icon]
Insoxicated
I was 100% able to replicate the Blackberry Bold 8700 issue in my living room. Did it while watching the video. Went from 3 bars to 1 bar. Laughed about it... GF and her friend came in. Showed them. One had an HTC incredible.. it's signal dipped too (by 1 bar). Another had a flip phone that had no effect (older phone). It was a pronounced effect on the 8700 and to a slightly lesser effect on the incredible. I'll shoot it on video if anyone doesn't believe me.
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