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This guy is 100% credible. If he says it happened, it happened.that's gotta be B.S.Just got off the phone with someone in Manhattan. He said that there was a guy in line offering to sell his spot for $5000. He asked him if he was serious. Guy replied that someone had already offered him $4500. I guess he's holding out for $5K
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Why?
a LOT of people want it to fail. ...just look at all the nit-picking.
The hypeThe priceThe Microsoft like force feed of this thing, i.e. having to use AT&T as your wireless provider. Seems a bit hypocritical coming from a company so "consumer friendly". Plus, I just hate Apple
Like we didn't know.Plus, I just hate Apple
guru_007 said:The hypeThe priceThe Microsoft like force feed of this thing, i.e. having to use AT&T as your wireless provider. Seems a bit hypocritical coming from a company so "consumer friendly". Plus, I just hate Apple[icon] said:
Hype: While Apple's PR department is certainly in overdrive you know the majority of that is the media's fault right?Price: Given the phone's capability and advanced fatures, the price is not at all out of line. Exclusive contracts have been the way of the walk for pretty much every major cell phone launch recently. SLVR? RAZR? etc. All had exclusive deals. Hating Apple: Well that's even less rational than those who blindly love apple.... so good luck with that 
Apple didn't produce the hype - the media did that.The price isn't much different than many other phones out there, except apple isn't allowing subsidies. Other phones are more expensive, and perhaps have less value (in terms of usability) than the iphone.Apple teamed with AT&T to make the iphone possible. It wouldn't have been such a user friendly phone if apple didn't team up with someone. AT&T was smart enough to take on the risk, and as a reward for that, apple is with them for 5 years. This was done largely to make the best phone possible for the user.guru_007 said:The hypeThe priceThe Microsoft like force feed of this thing, i.e. having to use AT&T as your wireless provider. Seems a bit hypocritical coming from a company so "consumer friendly". Plus, I just hate Apple[icon] said:
Hate Apple? 
At the very least, they'll encourage more competition, better devices, better services for the users. I think you should thank apple, even if you don't like the iphone, for shaking up the industry.
Is $500 that important when $4,500 is right there to be had. If true this guy is dumb.Just got off the phone with someone in Manhattan. He said that there was a guy in line offering to sell his spot for $5000. He asked him if he was serious. Guy replied that someone had already offered him $4500. I guess he's holding out for $5K
Hi adonis,There's nothing wrong with those things. But to act like they're not a big deal or apple's doing is just not seeing. Apple beautifully orchestrated the hype. They are masters at that. Nothing to be ashamed of there.The price is sky high. That's a fact. Again, nothing to be ashamed of. But to act like it's not doesn't really make a lot of sense.Most other phones give people a choice of carriers. At least after a bit. Again, if they want to gain what they gained by going exclusive with AT&T, that's cool. But it's a big issue. Actually a very big issue with non AT&T customers.It's a credit to Apple I guess that they can inspire folks to blind homerism. But it really doesn't help the cause.Apple didn't produce the hype - the media did that.The price isn't much different than many other phones out there, except apple isn't allowing subsidies. Other phones are more expensive, and perhaps have less value (in terms of usability) than the iphone.Apple teamed with AT&T to make the iphone possible. It wouldn't have been such a user friendly phone if apple didn't team up with someone. AT&T was smart enough to take on the risk, and as a reward for that, apple is with them for 5 years. This was done largely to make the best phone possible for the user.guru_007 said:The hypeThe priceThe Microsoft like force feed of this thing, i.e. having to use AT&T as your wireless provider. Seems a bit hypocritical coming from a company so "consumer friendly". Plus, I just hate Apple[icon] said:Hate Apple?
At the very least, they'll encourage more competition, better devices, better services for the users. I think you should thank apple, even if you don't like the iphone, for shaking up the industry.
J
Help me for a dumb guy here. For a phone, how is text messaging practially different from IM'ing?J
wow talk about the pot calling the kettle blackHi adonis,There's nothing wrong with those things. But to act like they're not a big deal or apple's doing is just not seeing. Apple beautifully orchestrated the hype. They are masters at that. Nothing to be ashamed of there.The price is sky high. That's a fact. Again, nothing to be ashamed of. But to act like it's not doesn't really make a lot of sense.Most other phones give people a choice of carriers. At least after a bit. Again, if they want to gain what they gained by going exclusive with AT&T, that's cool. But it's a big issue. Actually a very big issue with non AT&T customers.It's a credit to Apple I guess that they can inspire folks to blind homerism. But it really doesn't help the cause.Apple didn't produce the hype - the media did that.The price isn't much different than many other phones out there, except apple isn't allowing subsidies. Other phones are more expensive, and perhaps have less value (in terms of usability) than the iphone.Apple teamed with AT&T to make the iphone possible. It wouldn't have been such a user friendly phone if apple didn't team up with someone. AT&T was smart enough to take on the risk, and as a reward for that, apple is with them for 5 years. This was done largely to make the best phone possible for the user.guru_007 said:The hypeThe priceThe Microsoft like force feed of this thing, i.e. having to use AT&T as your wireless provider. Seems a bit hypocritical coming from a company so "consumer friendly". Plus, I just hate Apple[icon] said:Hate Apple?
At the very least, they'll encourage more competition, better devices, better services for the users. I think you should thank apple, even if you don't like the iphone, for shaking up the industry.
That was more kick-### than the time Tanner punked the old lady in the buffet line.One said:wow, you're such a BADASS!
Joe, I hate to say it, but most of your post is inaccurate. The price of the iPhone the same as a Blackjack or other similar multi media hand helds when they first premier.Also, when most hand sets come out they sign exclusive agreements with carriers for a set period of time before going on to multiple networks. The Razor did this, so did the Chocolate, so did all the others with the gimmicky names that I can't think of right now. It is in fact the norm for a hand set to come out with one carrier at first.Joe THi adonis,There's nothing wrong with those things. But to act like they're not a big deal or apple's doing is just not seeing. Apple beautifully orchestrated the hype. They are masters at that. Nothing to be ashamed of there.The price is sky high. That's a fact. Again, nothing to be ashamed of. But to act like it's not doesn't really make a lot of sense.Most other phones give people a choice of carriers. At least after a bit. Again, if they want to gain what they gained by going exclusive with AT&T, that's cool. But it's a big issue. Actually a very big issue with non AT&T customers.It's a credit to Apple I guess that they can inspire folks to blind homerism. But it really doesn't help the cause.J
At the time of manufacturing the device, the chips that enabled high speed were either too bulky, too power hungry, or both, to make the device economically and aesthetically feasible to apple. Also, the availability of the higher speed network at the time this decision had to be made wasn't very wide. The EDGE network is everywhere. That's what Jobs basically said when asked the question.
Do you think the price for the iphone is not high compared to phones on the market today?Are you saying Apples deal with ATT&T as the exclusive carrier is the norm? Do you know how long the deal is for?JJoe, I hate to say it, but most of your post is inaccurate. The price of the iPhone the same as a Blackjack or other similar multi media hand helds when they first premier.Also, when most hand sets come out they sign exclusive agreements with carriers for a set period of time before going on to multiple networks. The Razor did this, so did the Chocolate, so did all the others with the gimmicky names that I can't think of right now. It is in fact the norm for a hand set to come out with one carrier at first.Joe THi adonis,There's nothing wrong with those things. But to act like they're not a big deal or apple's doing is just not seeing. Apple beautifully orchestrated the hype. They are masters at that. Nothing to be ashamed of there.The price is sky high. That's a fact. Again, nothing to be ashamed of. But to act like it's not doesn't really make a lot of sense.Most other phones give people a choice of carriers. At least after a bit. Again, if they want to gain what they gained by going exclusive with AT&T, that's cool. But it's a big issue. Actually a very big issue with non AT&T customers.It's a credit to Apple I guess that they can inspire folks to blind homerism. But it really doesn't help the cause.J
I think that we must have different ideas of what "orchestrating the hype" means. What Apple did was tightly control information up until the iphone unveiling in Jan of this year. Jobs put on an excellent show of what the iphone could do, and people were amazed by it. It was presented as being revolutionary, and many people believed that it was by his demonstration, myself included.After that, Apple did very little regarding public announcements. They didn't put out press conferences all the time, announcing this or that, but the media and the apple lovers were very much interested in the story. They went on speculating on this or that feature, but apple remained silent. This part was almost totally driven by the media, but fueled by apples silence. Then they started releasing more details, and people became interested all over again. This wasn't because apple paid for it, but it was because apple has a reputation for producing top notch products, and so far, it seemed like the iphone was yet again a top notch product in a category that produced wide interest. Again, this was all fueled by their reputation as a company, the innovativeness of the phone, and a desire on the part of the public for their product.Then the time comes closer and they announce more and more, and the cycle continues. It's almost totally been driven by the publics desire for their product. They've produced and presented a product that many people are interested in, and the media kept writing articles about it because the product appeals to many people. Apple, at best, is guilty of being a company known for high quality products, innovation, and secrecy. They didn't produce a high volume marketing campaign, but instead produced a high quality product that produced its own publicity.Hi adonis,There's nothing wrong with those things. But to act like they're not a big deal or apple's doing is just not seeing. Apple beautifully orchestrated the hype. They are masters at that. Nothing to be ashamed of there.Apple didn't produce the hype - the media did that.The price isn't much different than many other phones out there, except apple isn't allowing subsidies. Other phones are more expensive, and perhaps have less value (in terms of usability) than the iphone.Apple teamed with AT&T to make the iphone possible. It wouldn't have been such a user friendly phone if apple didn't team up with someone. AT&T was smart enough to take on the risk, and as a reward for that, apple is with them for 5 years. This was done largely to make the best phone possible for the user.guru_007 said:The hypeThe priceThe Microsoft like force feed of this thing, i.e. having to use AT&T as your wireless provider. Seems a bit hypocritical coming from a company so "consumer friendly". Plus, I just hate Apple[icon] said:
Hate Apple?
NO matter how you spin it, 500-600 bucks is a lot of money. But that's only relative to nothing. Relative to other phones at their initial launches, it's not that bad. The razr was also very expensive at its launch and people ate it up. With a subsidy, like many other smart phones, the price would probably be down around the 300 mark, which puts it in line with many other smartphones.They're also going after a high dollar market, not just an average phone market. Sure, there are free phones available, which might be fine for people who just want a phone, but for the market they're shooting for right now, it's people who want high tech gadgets with internet capability and other snazzy features, that are willing to pay more. Odds are, they'd spend 2-300 on another phone anyways.All that said, it is expensive objectively and is priced out of the range of many people's finances...which is OK. It's not a phone for everyone. I don't know why people expect it to be all things to all people. Those same people complain that it doesn't have this feature, or it's not compatible with businesses, or it'll be hard to use the keyboard...and that's fine. Each phone has a market, and the iphone has its. Within that market, that audience, it's a bit highly priced, but it's not extravagant.
I agree here. I hate Cingular, and left them for verizon almost 2 years ago. But Verizon refused apple's request to work with them to create a better phone, and gave up on the iphone. Because apple needed to work side by side with a company, they had to make the offer beneficial for the company too. This happened with AT&T and it's just part of the deal of making a better phone.I hate that it's AT&T and not verizon, but I believe that they will both work together to make the network better, and that the iphones success will only increase the quality of AT&T networks.Again, that said, it's unfortunate that people who are on other networks can't switch, but again, it's not all things to all people. Most phones have an exclusivity period, many at least 2 years. That's the length of an iphone contract, and if by the end of that 2 years that's common to most new phones, people still want an iphone, surely they'll be out of contract with another company and can switch, hassle free.
Blind homerism is a bit much. The presentation in January gave people, your "blind homers" all they needed to see that the iphone was really going to be special. It wasn't blind. It wasn't apple saying "We have a phone, and you'll see it on june 29th for the first time! Love it apple fans!".Rather, JObs put on a long presentation of the phone, detailed, and showed what it had. The features it showed, had people drooling. I don't know why you'd think that was "blind homerism".If a company that has a reputation for putting out high quality products, announces a new product, shows it off with most of its functions, and those who have used it generally rate it pretty highly, I fail to see how blind homerism plays a part in the desire to own said product.At any rate, I acknowledge that it's not for all people. It shouldn't be. If its' not your kind of phone, or in your price range, there's really nothign to see here. People who can afford it and who want those features can enjoy it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who care, and in that lust for information, comes an oversaturation of information that even I, an iphone luster myself, am getting tired of.It's a credit to Apple I guess that they can inspire folks to blind homerism. But it really doesn't help the cause.J
Thanks adonis. I think we're probably on the same page. I may wind up getting one at some point if I can figure out how it'll work with my outlook well enough. I just think some of us are tiring of the fawning. It's the same way with the Mac desktops (that I'm tying this on right now
) some of the Mac fans are so over the top and feel the need to defend any and everything that it has some people like me sort of The iphone does indeed look cool. But it has a big obstacle in the 5 year ATT&T exclusive. And Apple was absolutely masterful in their hype generation (in which the silence periods were huge parts of their strategy I'm certain) Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I admire them for it.J
Pricing of phones is a tricky business. I would say that the underlying price of the iphone is the same as the price of the BlackJack and other similar models today. What you don't see yet is the discounting by the carriers for the iphone yet that you do with other hand sets. Carriers will sell most phones at a price less than what they actually pay for the phone just to get the customer on a service plan.I guess what I'm saying is that AT&T or whoever carries the BlackJack probably still pays $500 for that phone just like they pay $500 for the iphone today. But since the iphone is new and there is high demand, the carrier has no reason to sell at a loss yet.But the underlying price of those phones is the same.Yes, AT&T's exclusive deal with Apple for their phone is the norm. I have no insight to how long the deal is for, but most are for 6 to 12 months and I'd be surprised if Apple didn't move to other carriers as soon as they are allowed to in their agreement with AT&T. Carrier's want exclusive deals on hand sets to drive subscriber growth. I have no idea what AT&T is paying for this exclusive, but my guess is it is a ton.Another thing I heard, which may or may not be true is that AT&T is electing to sell these phones only at the AT&T stores and Apple stores thus cutting out a lot of the middle men like Best Buy and Radioshack etc. I haven't verified this yet, but it would make sense for AT&T to keep all the profit for themselves. Typically, if a store like Best Buy sells an AT&T phone, they get a % of the revenue stream for the life of the customer.This is probably more info than you wanted....
Hi JoeT,As I understand it, it's a 5 year deal with AT&T. The article is a few weeks old though. It may be different now.
Apple's deal with AT&T is not the norm. Most exclusive deals are for much shorter time periods. A multiyear deal is unusual. But in the end, it's very good for AT&T and probably good for Apple as well. Dealing with one carrier is bad enough but dealing with multiple carriers is a major pain in the ###, even though Apple would have sold a lot more iPhones. The average consumer doesn't really understand how difficult and time consuming it is to get a new product certified, approved, launched, etc with wireless carrier. And the carriers want all the power and control with limited support obligations. Apple was able to negotiate a deal where they kept most of the power, which is also unusual. I'm sure Apple realized that in order to do things "their way", they would almost certainly only get one carrier to sign on. Not suprisingly, Verizon balked at Apple's terms. And AT&T made the smart move.Do you think the price for the iphone is not high compared to phones on the market today?Are you saying Apples deal with ATT&T as the exclusive carrier is the norm? Do you know how long the deal is for?JJoe, I hate to say it, but most of your post is inaccurate. The price of the iPhone the same as a Blackjack or other similar multi media hand helds when they first premier.Also, when most hand sets come out they sign exclusive agreements with carriers for a set period of time before going on to multiple networks. The Razor did this, so did the Chocolate, so did all the others with the gimmicky names that I can't think of right now. It is in fact the norm for a hand set to come out with one carrier at first.Joe THi adonis,There's nothing wrong with those things. But to act like they're not a big deal or apple's doing is just not seeing. Apple beautifully orchestrated the hype. They are masters at that. Nothing to be ashamed of there.The price is sky high. That's a fact. Again, nothing to be ashamed of. But to act like it's not doesn't really make a lot of sense.Most other phones give people a choice of carriers. At least after a bit. Again, if they want to gain what they gained by going exclusive with AT&T, that's cool. But it's a big issue. Actually a very big issue with non AT&T customers.It's a credit to Apple I guess that they can inspire folks to blind homerism. But it really doesn't help the cause.
Thank you for bringing this thread back to the practical side and not all that theory crapola. Anyone else got one yet? How's the data transfer? How do websites load? How's the sound quality of the music player?
Wow. I can't wait to check out the iPhone and may switch over myself, but you've completely bought the Kool-Aid Jobs and Apple are selling. Denying that it's far more expensive than any phone out there, and that the exclusive 5 year contract doesn't suck is just ridiculous.Apple didn't produce the hype - the media did that.The price isn't much different than many other phones out there, except apple isn't allowing subsidies. Other phones are more expensive, and perhaps have less value (in terms of usability) than the iphone.Apple teamed with AT&T to make the iphone possible. It wouldn't have been such a user friendly phone if apple didn't team up with someone. AT&T was smart enough to take on the risk, and as a reward for that, apple is with them for 5 years. This was done largely to make the best phone possible for the user.guru_007 said:The hypeThe priceThe Microsoft like force feed of this thing, i.e. having to use AT&T as your wireless provider. Seems a bit hypocritical coming from a company so "consumer friendly". Plus, I just hate Apple[icon] said:
Just bought 2 iphones this evening. Early anniversary present for me and the wife. Line at the Apple Store in our mall at 6 PM was about 150-250 deep. So went and got some dinner, came back at about 7:30, and the line was competely gone. Walked right in, played with the fully functional display models in the store - made a few phone calls to friends with it, pulled up some web pages, including FBG of course
, it has direct links to Youtube (videos looked great on the screen) and Google Earth, which was pretty cool. Fully functional Ipod built in, built-in speaker sounded OK but it was hard to tell for sure because the store was so loud. The keypad on the screen takes some getting used to, and I'm curious about the web speed (or lack of it) in a non-Wifi, non-wireless router area.Can't wait to set it up and play with it some more (unless of course we try them flip them on eBay tonight for a quick profit...)
Deal breaker there. Although I do know it pairs as the USA Today review guy used his and said it was ok.J
Internet speed is pretty slow, but it's not all that bad. Seems faster than dialup, but not by much. The internet usage is great though. I've had a smartphone before, and surfing the net just isn't worth it, but on this phone it's great. FBG's forum looks great BTW.I was using EDGE most of the time, but now that i'm back at home, it auto-connects to my home wifi-network so webpages will load immediately.
It's the whole internet, but it's limited in that it doesn't support flash and something else. You can download the apple browser "Safari" for windows and it's basically the same thing. Whatever you can view in safari, you can view on the iphone, as the iphone has safari as its browser.
I had Yahoo IM on my SLVR... rarely ever used it
