The Birther Conspiracy Thread (2 Viewers)

[randall146]

I came to post exactly that. Greatest "accident" I've ever seen.I also like how out of the 30-40 accidents in the video there's only 2 where anyone tries to help anyone else.

 

[jon_mx]

Please explain why you find the birth announcements, which were in Hawaii newspapers, aren't meaningful proof that Obama was, in fact, born.

Because the birth announcement could have been called-in by an overzealous family member who was desperate for Obama to get his citizenship. You really think the newspaper was going to call the hospital to verify that the baby was onsite? Please. It's the oldest scam in the book.

Good point Tommy, clearly this conspiracy was in the making for a long time.

There was a birth certificate filed and it was reported in the papers. We still have no idea who filed it, if there was a doctor involved, was he born in a hospital, etc. There is something about his original birth certificate that Obama does not want people to see. Could be something like it was filed by a relative or it could be something silly like his parents identified Obama as a Muslim. No one knows, but there is something that doesn't fit the narrative that Obama has created.

 

[TommyGilmore]

There is something about his original birth certificate that Obama does not want people to see. Could be something like it was filed by a relative or it could be something silly like his parents identified Obama as a Muslim.

Is that even possible?

 

[Statorama]

Hawaii Governor says Obama birth documents exist, but he can't produce them

The gift that keeps on giving. PLEASE keep "helping"! At the end of the SNL skit, someone whispers in the Governors ear and he yells "Really? They can carbon date it?"

Hawaii governor claims record of Obama's birth 'exists in archives' but can't produce the vital document

Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.

Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

He told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser: 'It actually exists in the archives, written down,' he said.

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

 

[Slapdash]

Hawaii Governor says Obama birth documents exist, but he can't produce them

The gift that keeps on giving. PLEASE keep "helping"! At the end of the SNL skit, someone whispers in the Governors ear and he yells "Really? They can carbon date it?"

Hawaii governor claims record of Obama's birth 'exists in archives' but can't produce the vital document

Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.

Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

He told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser: 'It actually exists in the archives, written down,' he said.

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

 

[Sarnoff]

Followup: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110122/ap_on_...rth_certificate

Hawaii law bars release of Obama birth info

By MARK NIESSE, Associated Press Mark Niesse, Associated Press – Sat Jan 22, 4:56 am ET

HONOLULU – A privacy law that shields birth certificates has prompted Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims that President Barack Obama was born outside Hawaii, his office says.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual's birth documentation without the person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.

"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."

Yep, nothing more he can do. Unfortunately, some people will still be birthers, but, this is a dead end. Governor can't do anything more.... without consent of the person in question.... yep, guess it has to end here, let's just pack it up and go home...

 

[Bronco Billy]

Holy crap.

Let's see:

Late '50s

Unwed mother

Inter-racial birth

Is it really that difficult to fathom that Obama could have been born at a residence and not in the hospital, and so there was no birth certificate? And that it had absolutely nothing to do with what was to unfold 5 decades later.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Followup: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110122/ap_on_...rth_certificate

Hawaii law bars release of Obama birth info

By MARK NIESSE, Associated Press Mark Niesse, Associated Press – Sat Jan 22, 4:56 am ET

HONOLULU – A privacy law that shields birth certificates has prompted Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims that President Barack Obama was born outside Hawaii, his office says.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual's birth documentation without the person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.

"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."

Yep, nothing more he can do. Unfortunately, some people will still be birthers, but, this is a dead end. Governor can't do anything more.... without consent of the person in question.... yep, guess it has to end here, let's just pack it up and go home...

So.. the Governor is a blithering idiot then. It's hard to believe that he did not know that, but here we are...

 

[timschochet]

God, I love this thread. This may be the best thread I've ever started. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[timschochet]

Holy crap.Let's see:Late '50sUnwed motherInter-racial birthIs it really that difficult to fathom that Obama could have been born at a residence and not in the hospital, and so there was no birth certificate? And that it had absolutely nothing to do with what was to unfold 5 decades later.

Keep it coming, Bronco! Your commentary is priceless.

 

[jon_mx]

The media has reported thousands of times that Hawaii has Obama's birth certificate. Here is an example from ABC of how it has been typically reported...

In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated this afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives.

Hawaiian officials have never stated that though, they just state there are vital records which verify he was born in Hawaii. It is becoming clear there is no birth certificate, and on that point the conspiracy wackos were correct. So the question becomes where Obama was born and how it was reported to the state. The lack of a birth certificate would indicate he was not born in a hospital. It is probably he was born at home, but let's see the proof. Is the proof is simply some relative submitting some paper work. Was there any doctor or nurse who signed it?

 

[timschochet]

The media has reported thousands of times that Hawaii has Obama's birth certificate. Here is an example from ABC of how it has been typically reported...

In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated this afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives.

Hawaiian officials have never stated that though, they just state there are vital records which verify he was born in Hawaii. It is becoming clear there is no birth certificate, and on that point the conspiracy wackos were correct. So the question becomes where Obama was born and how it was reported to the state. The lack of a birth certificate would indicate he was not born in a hospital. It is probably he was born at home, but let's see the proof. Is the proof is simply some relative submitting some paper work. Was there any doctor or nurse who signed it?

 

[Koya]

Now that the approval ratings are going back up, looks like the knee jerkers on the right are getting nervous already (that is not to say there are not KJ's on the left, but this is not their moment).

 

[Sam Quentin]

Now that the approval ratings are going back up, looks like the knee jerkers on the right are getting nervous already (that is not to say there are not KJ's on the left, but this is not their moment).

It was Amberdummy that put this back on the radar....

 

[Steve Tasker]

Now that the approval ratings are going back up, looks like the knee jerkers on the right are getting nervous already (that is not to say there are not KJ's on the left, but this is not their moment).

It was Amberdummy that put this back on the radar....

Amber Lamps?

 

[Bronco Billy]

Holy crap.Let's see:Late '50sUnwed motherInter-racial birthIs it really that difficult to fathom that Obama could have been born at a residence and not in the hospital, and so there was no birth certificate? And that it had absolutely nothing to do with what was to unfold 5 decades later.

Keep it coming, Bronco! Your commentary is priceless.

I guess for some it is unfathomable...

 

[Alex P Keaton]

The media has reported thousands of times that Hawaii has Obama's birth certificate. Here is an example from ABC of how it has been typically reported...

In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated this afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives.

Hawaiian officials have never stated that though, they just state there are vital records which verify he was born in Hawaii. It is becoming clear there is no birth certificate, and on that point the conspiracy wackos were correct. So the question becomes where Obama was born and how it was reported to the state. The lack of a birth certificate would indicate he was not born in a hospital. It is probably he was born at home, but let's see the proof. Is the proof is simply some relative submitting some paper work. Was there any doctor or nurse who signed it?

Right, that's the only logical conclusion we can draw.The amazing thing is that you really believe the above....it's burned into your psyche, but I'm sure you 100% dismiss the idea that Bush snorted coke for years. Because that would just be crazy talk.

 

[jon_mx]

The media has reported thousands of times that Hawaii has Obama's birth certificate. Here is an example from ABC of how it has been typically reported...

In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated this afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives.

Hawaiian officials have never stated that though, they just state there are vital records which verify he was born in Hawaii. It is becoming clear there is no birth certificate, and on that point the conspiracy wackos were correct. So the question becomes where Obama was born and how it was reported to the state. The lack of a birth certificate would indicate he was not born in a hospital. It is probably he was born at home, but let's see the proof. Is the proof is simply some relative submitting some paper work. Was there any doctor or nurse who signed it?

Right, that's the only logical conclusion we can draw.The amazing thing is that you really believe the above....it's burned into your psyche, but I'm sure you 100% dismiss the idea that Bush snorted coke for years. Because that would just be crazy talk.

:X What is there not to believe? If you know so much, why not tell me the time, location, hospital, doctor who delivered Obama? Everything I said is based upon what we know. From the parsed statements of Hawaiian officials, it is clear a birth certificate does not exist. They could have verified its existence without violating any privacy laws. But they haven't. Also, their statements about releasing it, is not totally true. There are exceptions in the law to releasing it without the persons permission.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Everything I said is based upon what we know.it is clear a birth certificate does not exist.

Dude...

 

[bostonfred]

This may be the best thread I've ever started.

While this would seem statistically unlikely, realistically, it's a near certainty.

 

[David Dodds]

With the way Obama has saved the economy (vaulting the NASDAQ +90% since taking over) coupled with the birth announcement in the paper and the truth that he clearly was born in Kenya, I think it's clear

OBAMA IS A TIME-TRAVELER

 

[cstu]

This may be the best thread I've ever started.

While this would seem statistically unlikely, realistically, it's a near certainty.

 

[cstu]

The media has reported thousands of times that Hawaii has Obama's birth certificate. Here is an example from ABC of how it has been typically reported...

In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated this afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives.

Hawaiian officials have never stated that though, they just state there are vital records which verify he was born in Hawaii. It is becoming clear there is no birth certificate, and on that point the conspiracy wackos were correct. So the question becomes where Obama was born and how it was reported to the state. The lack of a birth certificate would indicate he was not born in a hospital. It is probably he was born at home, but let's see the proof. Is the proof is simply some relative submitting some paper work. Was there any doctor or nurse who signed it?

Right, that's the only logical conclusion we can draw.The amazing thing is that you really believe the above....it's burned into your psyche, but I'm sure you 100% dismiss the idea that Bush snorted coke for years. Because that would just be crazy talk.

What is there not to believe? If you know so much, why not tell me the time, location, hospital, doctor who delivered Obama? Everything I said is based upon what we know. From the parsed statements of Hawaiian officials, it is clear a birth certificate does not exist. They could have verified its existence without violating any privacy laws. But they haven't. Also, their statements about releasing it, is not totally true. There are exceptions in the law to releasing it without the persons permission.

Can you explain to me why a pregnant 18 year old college student in Hawaii would fly to Kenya in 1962 to give birth?

 

[David Dodds]

Can you explain to me why a pregnant 18 year old college student in Hawaii would fly to Kenya in 1962 to give birth?

Everyone is doing this these days.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Can you explain to me why a pregnant 18 year old college student in Hawaii would fly to Kenya in 1962 to give birth?

If Obama can't prove that he was born in the hospital or at home, then what other logical possibility could there be???

 

[MasterofOrion]

Great quotes.

" Limbaugh said. "How many of us could get away with saying, 'Yeah there's a little notation somewhere there in the archives, but we can't find the birth certificate.

"In fact, most government officials have apparently done their best to seal it all off," he said. "Whatever there is, they've sealed it all off, and they've tried to pooh-pooh any interest in it. And they have attempted to impugn those who have interest in it."

But now, in the wake of Abercrombie's apparent admissions, Obama supporters, he said, still cannot produce the proof.

"This is stunning to me," Limbaugh said. "(They) still can't prove it."

 

[Dr. Awesome]

God, I love this thread. This may be the best thread I've ever started. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[MasterofOrion]

From the same article. Limbaugh says this could be a set up. That Hawaii's Governor would not be doing this with out the consent from the White House.

"The alternative is he's not acting on his own. This is all part of a continuing head-fake, and that at some point after a lot of people have gotten revved up – the U.K. Daily Mail online is more mainstream than anywhere else in America this has been – so it ratchets up, it ratchets up, and a couple of years down the road, guess what, the thing is found, and can you imagine the air that would be let out of people's sails then?"

Limbaugh said he believes the Obama administration is capable of that kind of "trick."

Something like this billboard.

 

[the moops]

Great quotes.

You have very low standards.

 

[Bronco Billy]

It's always interesting to watch these types of threads develop. The side supporting Obama's position that he was born in a Hawaii hospital starts off with derision of the oppsoition backed only by a nefarious computer generated document that is laughable in some of its aspects (race: African for instance). Then we see some of the digging start as those on the opposite side begin to generate more and more evidence in attempting to prove a much more difficult negative position. Then we start to see the Obama story change (switched hospitals of birth), the Hawaii officials story change (saw the BC directly & one claimed to have been at the hospital when he was born to all the way to now that there is some kind of documentation that can't be described but it isn't a BC and that he was likely not born in a hospital), and in the meantime more evidence piles up to the contrary: Stanley Anne Dunham was never married to Obama Sr (there is no marriage certificate, which is public record), that Dunham and Obama Sr never lived at the address notated in the newspaper articles, that Dunham left for college in Seattle about 15 days after Obama's birth, that Dunham & Obama senior could not have possibly lived together for the 2 years prior to Obama Sr's departure.

All of it points to a logical and reasonable conclusion, especially given the year of Obama's birth: That he was born of an unwed mother, and because he is mixed race and was born in the 50s that the birth was likely kept very low key and also likely happened at the home of Dunham's parents. That the newspaper stories of the birth that were planted two weeks after the birth were likely the result of Dunham's parent creating some kind of credible documentation for a baby that obviously was. And that none of this is tied in any way to any 50 year conspiracy that lead to Obama's presidency.

And in the face of all of this we still have the dedicated Obots who now make their argument nothing more than and "this is my best thread ever". It's like watching someone's religious beliefs attacked. The supporter can't provide any tangible evidence of the events but has such a strong faith that their version couldn't possibly be anything but 100% truth. It really is fascinating as the fairy tale dissolves and more and more facts emerge and proof of lies about the BC that those Obots simply can not change their position even slightly because of their faith and/or their inability to admit that they possibly could have been mislead. This is exactly what con artists like Obama rely on, that their supporters will continue to back an increasingly unsustainable position in the face of mounting evidence because they simply know better than everyone else.

 

[WVU Alum]

Can you explain to me why a pregnant 18 year old college student in Hawaii would fly to Kenya in 1962 to give birth?

If Obama can't prove that he was born in the hospital or at home, then what other logical possibility could there be???

Taxi.

 

[randall146]

It's always interesting to watch these types of threads develop. The side supporting Obama's position that he was born in a Hawaii hospital starts off with derision of the oppsoition backed only by a nefarious computer generated document that is laughable in some of its aspects (race: African for instance). Then we see some of the digging start as those on the opposite side begin to generate more and more evidence in attempting to prove a much more difficult negative position.

That's where your argument goes astray - There's never been any evidence that he was born anywhere other than Hawaii. Argument and supposition, sure, but no evidence.The "short-form birth certificate" is evidence. The birth announcements in 2 newspapers are evidence. Now of course there are some arguments against the reliability of this evidence, but those are just arguments - not evidence.

 

[Bronco Billy]

It's always interesting to watch these types of threads develop. The side supporting Obama's position that he was born in a Hawaii hospital starts off with derision of the oppsoition backed only by a nefarious computer generated document that is laughable in some of its aspects (race: African for instance). Then we see some of the digging start as those on the opposite side begin to generate more and more evidence in attempting to prove a much more difficult negative position.

That's where your argument goes astray - There's never been any evidence that he was born anywhere other than Hawaii. Argument and supposition, sure, but no evidence.The "short-form birth certificate" is evidence. The birth announcements in 2 newspapers are evidence. Now of course there are some arguments against the reliability of this evidence, but those are just arguments - not evidence.

I firmly believe given the evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii. I believe my post above clearly infers that as well. What isn't supported is the Obama nativity story and the existence of a BC. It all goes to credibility, especially with the game Obama has been playing with this instead of simply being forthcoming. But that's his nature and his MO. His life's story that he has created right up to being a Chicago activist is filled with material that is contrary to a growing body of evidence of actual events.

 

[Premier]

One of the smartest things Obama has done is fed into this and kept this story going, to tie everybody on the right into the 1% Looney Tunes fringe that actually believes he wasn't born here.

 

[Sam Quentin]

One of the smartest things Obama has done is fed into this and kept this story going, to tie everybody on the right into the 1% Looney Tunes fringe that actually believes he wasn't born here.

transparency

 

[Sam Quentin]

One of the smartest things Obama has done is fed into this and kept this story going, to tie everybody on the right into the 1% Looney Tunes fringe that actually believes he wasn't born here.

yes it pure geniushttp://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/...as-born-in-u-s/

according to CNN, only 42% of his constituents are convinced he was born in the US

That's a sure way to build the confidence and trust of the people

 

[pantagrapher]

One of the smartest things Obama has done is fed into this and kept this story going, to tie everybody on the right into the 1% Looney Tunes fringe that actually believes he wasn't born here.

yes it pure geniushttp://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/...as-born-in-u-s/

according to CNN, only 42% of his constituents are convinced he was born in the US

That's a sure way to build the confidence and trust of the people

A lot of his constituents believe in a lot of stupid things. That's not his problem.

 

[Topes]

— a country in which, a recent survey showed, 34 percent of the public believes in UFOs and 24 percent believes in witches.

I believe in UFOs. I don't believe they will all ever be positively identified. How do you positively identify what was in the sky in 1967, whent he three witnesses are all dead?I believe in witches. I've met some. They're not my favorite people, but hey...Birthers are more akin to flat earthers. Even moon-landing-fraud guy has more to stand on than a birther does.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It's always interesting to watch these types of threads develop. The side supporting Obama's position that he was born in a Hawaii hospital starts off with derision of the oppsoition backed only by a nefarious computer generated document that is laughable in some of its aspects (race: African for instance). Then we see some of the digging start as those on the opposite side begin to generate more and more evidence in attempting to prove a much more difficult negative position.

That's where your argument goes astray - There's never been any evidence that he was born anywhere other than Hawaii. Argument and supposition, sure, but no evidence.The "short-form birth certificate" is evidence. The birth announcements in 2 newspapers are evidence. Now of course there are some arguments against the reliability of this evidence, but those are just arguments - not evidence.

I firmly believe given the evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii. I believe my post above clearly infers that as well. What isn't supported is the Obama nativity story and the existence of a BC. It all goes to credibility, especially with the game Obama has been playing with this instead of simply being forthcoming. But that's his nature and his MO. His life's story that he has created right up to being a Chicago activist is filled with material that is contrary to a growing body of evidence of actual events.

The rest of the story is irrelevant. You've agreed that the birthers are wrong......and that Obama was born in the US. End of story. I don't give two ####s whether or not his parents were married.

 

[Bronco Billy]

You know what really sucks (but that the looney lefties just revel in)?

The guy is the freakin' President of the United States and you have to put a book of evidence together to figure out the circumstances of his birth. That he simply doesn't present his credentials as they really exist regarding something as simple as his birth in Hawaii. It's okay that he wasn't born in a hospital and didn't get a BC. In today's day & age, only the looney right is going to try to use circumstances of his birth that he obviously had no control over against him.

But he just can't do it. He has to keep this con running, along with all the other fabrications and misrepresentations that he's been caught in.

Shameful. As are those who continue to bask in his charade. Hard to believe that our presidency has fallen to the level it has in the past two decades. Harder to believe that we as a country don't expect more from our elected leader and accept this as business as usual.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

You know what really sucks (but that the looney lefties just revel in)?The guy is the freakin' President of the United States and you have to put a book of evidence together to figure out the circumstances of his birth. That he simply doesn't present his credentials as they really exist regarding something as simple as his birth in Hawaii. It's okay that he wasn't born in a hospital and didn't get a BC. In today's day & age, only the looney right is going to try to use circumstances of his birth that he obviously had no control over against him.But he just can't do it. He has to keep this con running, along with all the other fabrications and misrepresentations that he's been caught in.Shameful. As are those who continue to bask in his charade. Hard to believe that our presidency has fallen to the level it has in the past two decades. Harder to believe that we as a country don't expect more from our elected leader and accept this as business as usual.

Well, thankfully no other presidents in recent memory have hidden things from the American people. Oh wait.....

 

[timschochet]

You know what really sucks (but that the looney lefties just revel in)?The guy is the freakin' President of the United States and you have to put a book of evidence together to figure out the circumstances of his birth. That he simply doesn't present his credentials as they really exist regarding something as simple as his birth in Hawaii. It's okay that he wasn't born in a hospital and didn't get a BC. In today's day & age, only the looney right is going to try to use circumstances of his birth that he obviously had no control over against him.But he just can't do it. He has to keep this con running, along with all the other fabrications and misrepresentations that he's been caught in.Shameful. As are those who continue to bask in his charade. Hard to believe that our presidency has fallen to the level it has in the past two decades. Harder to believe that we as a country don't expect more from our elected leader and accept this as business as usual.

 

[timschochet]

It's always interesting to watch these types of threads develop. The side supporting Obama's position that he was born in a Hawaii hospital starts off with derision of the oppsoition backed only by a nefarious computer generated document that is laughable in some of its aspects (race: African for instance). Then we see some of the digging start as those on the opposite side begin to generate more and more evidence in attempting to prove a much more difficult negative position. Then we start to see the Obama story change (switched hospitals of birth), the Hawaii officials story change (saw the BC directly & one claimed to have been at the hospital when he was born to all the way to now that there is some kind of documentation that can't be described but it isn't a BC and that he was likely not born in a hospital), and in the meantime more evidence piles up to the contrary: Stanley Anne Dunham was never married to Obama Sr (there is no marriage certificate, which is public record), that Dunham and Obama Sr never lived at the address notated in the newspaper articles, that Dunham left for college in Seattle about 15 days after Obama's birth, that Dunham & Obama senior could not have possibly lived together for the 2 years prior to Obama Sr's departure.All of it points to a logical and reasonable conclusion, especially given the year of Obama's birth: That he was born of an unwed mother, and because he is mixed race and was born in the 50s that the birth was likely kept very low key and also likely happened at the home of Dunham's parents. That the newspaper stories of the birth that were planted two weeks after the birth were likely the result of Dunham's parent creating some kind of credible documentation for a baby that obviously was. And that none of this is tied in any way to any 50 year conspiracy that lead to Obama's presidency. And in the face of all of this we still have the dedicated Obots who now make their argument nothing more than and "this is my best thread ever". It's like watching someone's religious beliefs attacked. The supporter can't provide any tangible evidence of the events but has such a strong faith that their version couldn't possibly be anything but 100% truth. It really is fascinating as the fairy tale dissolves and more and more facts emerge and proof of lies about the BC that those Obots simply can not change their position even slightly because of their faith and/or their inability to admit that they possibly could have been mislead. This is exactly what con artists like Obama rely on, that their supporters will continue to back an increasingly unsustainable position in the face of mounting evidence because they simply know better than everyone else.

 

[Clinton]

It's always interesting to watch these types of threads develop. The side supporting Obama's position that he was born in a Hawaii hospital starts off with derision of the oppsoition backed only by a nefarious computer generated document that is laughable in some of its aspects (race: African for instance). Then we see some of the digging start as those on the opposite side begin to generate more and more evidence in attempting to prove a much more difficult negative position.

That's where your argument goes astray - There's never been any evidence that he was born anywhere other than Hawaii. Argument and supposition, sure, but no evidence.The "short-form birth certificate" is evidence. The birth announcements in 2 newspapers are evidence. Now of course there are some arguments against the reliability of this evidence, but those are just arguments - not evidence.

I firmly believe given the evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii. I believe my post above clearly infers that as well. What isn't supported is the Obama nativity story and the existence of a BC. It all goes to credibility, especially with the game Obama has been playing with this instead of simply being forthcoming. But that's his nature and his MO. His life's story that he has created right up to being a Chicago activist is filled with material that is contrary to a growing body of evidence of actual events.

The rest of the story is irrelevant. You've agreed that the birthers are wrong......and that Obama was born in the US. End of story. I don't give two ####s whether or not his parents were married.

http://www.birthers.org/misc/logic.htm

 

[Clayton Gray]

Simply amazing.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Your best stuff timmy. Much more thought and logic than almost everything else you post.

 

[datonn]

— a country in which, a recent survey showed, 34 percent of the public believes in UFOs and 24 percent believes in witches.

I believe in UFOs. I don't believe they will all ever be positively identified. How do you positively identify what was in the sky in 1967, whent he three witnesses are all dead?I believe in witches. I've met some. They're not my favorite people, but hey...Birthers are more akin to flat earthers. Even moon-landing-fraud guy has more to stand on than a birther does.

1967? What particular incident was that? Or do you mean Roswell in 1947?I'm with you, Topes. I believe in God. I believe in ghosts and demons (and angels, I guess...though not in the way that most people believe in them). I believe in life on other planets, in other solar systems, in other universes. Can I prove any of it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Absolutely not.Also, if you offered me $10,000 if I could locate and then overnight you my original birth certificate, I don't think I could do it. I know I have one, but do I know where it is? Could I produce it if ever questioned by the media or government? Nope. I'd have to do a little digging to remember what hospital I was born in, much less produce any proof of the event you can hold in your hands.So I can't produce proof of where I was born. But wait, I forget. Both my parents were WHITE and married at the time...so nobody (on the Right) is going to question whether or not I was born in the Soviet Union or Eastern block. I natively speak English and my skin is pasty-white...so I'm good in the birthers' eyes, right?! I've got the right colored skin...so it's all flags and eagles soaring for this guy...

 

[timschochet]

Your best stuff timmy. Much more thought and logic than almost everything else you post.

Well you see, Billy, I really wanted to reply to you with an argument. I was thinking about all the things I could write that would refute your absurd posts. But then I started to read what you had written again and I was so convulsed in hysterical laughter that I was unable to type anything. I'm still laughing even now. Did you really type "an increasing unsustainable position in the face of mounting evidence"? Yes I think you did. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Oh I'm dying here.

 

[Jewell]

So I can't produce proof of where I was born. But wait, I forget. Both my parents were WHITE and married at the time...so nobody (on the Right) is going to question whether or not I was born in the Soviet Union or Eastern block. I natively speak English and my skin is pasty-white...so I'm good in the birthers' eyes, right?! I've got the right colored skin...so it's all flags and eagles soaring for this guy...

Is this the part of the thread where we counter the Birthers' flim-flam eligibility argument with an equally flim-flam everybody "on the Right" is a racist argument?A brief

I haven't posted in over a week because the post-Tucson smear campaign and the parroting of it by some here turned me off. That same smear campaign, however, made me realize that these things happen because people "on the Right" (as you put it) sheepishly respond to unfounded accusations because they believe their integrity-driven rebuttal will be misconstrued as more "evidence" of their supposed hatefulness or racism.

I'll always hold that those who reflexively jump to race as an explanation for others' positions are far more obsessed with race than those they're accusing. Birthers' objections could be based on a legitimate belief of ineligibility, it could be driven by opposition to Obama's views, or it could be driven by opposition to Obama's skin color. I'll at least consider other options, and even if I were to conclude the Birthers are being driven by racism I wouldn't then apply that conclusion to all those "on the Right".

"How dare you impugn all Muslims for the actions of a few!!! But please, feel free to impugn all members of the Right for the actions of a few."

If you're really interested in seeing fact-supported political racism, though, you should check out these fairly recent news stories. Like you, these politicians are fond of raising the WHITE issue. These actions should only be viewed as representing the mindset of (get this) those actually taking the action. These are not meant to impugn all members of the Left.

Rahm & Race in Chicago (Daily Beast): "People in this hardball town scarcely blinked at the bald racial calculations behind the recent “unity” summit (convened by the Rev. Jesse L. Jackson) to produce a single major black candidate for mayor..." "A black candidate who stepped aside last Friday, Congressman Danny K. Davis, made no secret that he and other African-American leaders feared a split in the black vote would hand a victory to the white candidate, Rahm Emanuel, or to the leading Latino contender, Gery Chico.... Davis said it was “just kind of natural” for people to rally behind a candidate of their own color or ethnicity. He drew an example from his boyhood on a farm in Arkansas. “When I went into the barnyard,” he explained later during an interview, “I never saw a chicken leading a group of turkeys.”

Jesse Jackson, Black Candidates Says Bill Clinton Shouldn’t Campaign for Rahm: “The African-American community has enjoyed a long and fruitful relationship with the Clintons, however it appears as though some of that relationship maybe fractured and perhaps even broken should former President Clinton come to town and participate overtly in efforts to thwart the legitimate political aspirations of Chicago’s black community,” Davis said in a statement.

Black Caucus: Whites Not Allowed (Politico): "As a white liberal running in a majority African American district, Tennessee Democrat Stephen I. Cohen made a novel pledge on the campaign trail last year: If elected, he would seek to become the first white member of the Congressional Black Caucus."... "Cohen said he became convinced that joining the caucus would be "a social faux pas" after seeing news reports that former Rep. William Lacy Clay Sr., D-Mo., a co-founder of the caucus, had circulated a memo telling members it was "critical" that the group remain "exclusively African-American."

NAACP Fears Appointment of White (Baltimore Sun): "Leaders of the Maryland NAACP, worried that a Baltimore mayor's criminal conviction could result in the appointment of a white or Republican leader who may not fully represent the majority black and Democratic city, are asking state lawmakers to strip the governor of authority to permanently fill the office."

So stop smearing "the other side" as racist. It's a disgusting accusation that should be reserved to cases where there's strong proof. If you insist on doing it, though, then be prepared to answer similar questions about "your side".

 

[Mr. Retukes]

So stop smearing "the other side" as racist. It's a disgusting accusation that should be reserved to cases where there's strong proof.

There are many types of disgusting accusations. Racism is one of them. But why hold the "racism-criers" to a higher standard than other accusers? Doesn't that seem a little bit bigoted in itself? Why should a black man be forced to wait for "strong proof" before he can raise his voice, while a gay man gets to speak up at the first hint of prejudice?And what is your definition of "strong proof", anyway? Is it kind of like the definition of a true Scotsman?