The Birther Conspiracy Thread (4 Viewers)

[pantagrapher]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I doubt anyone who voted for Obama is a Birther.

 

[pantagrapher]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

This is true. It isn't one nut. It's thousands of nuts.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I doubt anyone who voted for Obama is a Birther.

So he should ignore every American who didn't vote for him?

 

[pantagrapher]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I doubt anyone who voted for Obama is a Birther.

So he should ignore every American who didn't vote for him?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

This is true. It isn't one nut. It's thousands of nuts.

Who is Obama to decide what should and should not be okay? He's there to go with the will of the people. And people want to see his birth certificate yet he won't show it?

 

[timschochet]

And on and on you go. I'm not saying that they are really bigots or really racist or really evil, but it's definately a part of their opposition to my opinion. You know, wink wink, nudge nudge.

Nope. There's no winking and no nudging. I'm saying it directly. Let me clarify it for you. In my opinion:1. Most of the people who question Obama's birth do not consider themselves racist. 2. However, there is a subconcious element to this issue that makes it so popular, much more so than other similar inquiries of previous political figures. That subconcious element is fear of a black man with a foreign sounding name. 3. For some of the people who are "birthers", this subconcious fear is so strong that it rises to the top on occassion. Others honestly believe that their motivations are based on a sense of justice, though the fear is hidden underneath. Others still have no subconcious racist fear, and are honestly reacting to what they consider to be something wrong. It's impossible to judge each individual's motivations. That's it; that's my honest opinion. If you think, like DW, that this is cowardly, that I am somehow trying to call these people racists without having to call any single person racist, then that's your prerogative (and his). I don't agree.

 

[Biabreakable]

Holy crap. Carry on.

 

[pantagrapher]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I doubt anyone who voted for Obama is a Birther.

So he should ignore every American who didn't vote for him?

No, just the loonies.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Holy crap. Carry on.

This stuff is gold!

 

[randall146]

But I believe we should hold our presidents and those seeking office to a higher standard.

I don't understand what you mean in relation to your post. "Higher standard" of what? Where they were born?

Lead should be so dense. Higher standard of proof, of course.

Higher standard than a certified government record, plus historical evidence including contemporaneous newspaper announcements?If he was on trial criminally and one of the elements was being a natural born citizen, that'd be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[randall146]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

This is true. It isn't one nut. It's thousands of nuts.

Who is Obama to decide what should and should not be okay? He's there to go with the will of the people. And people want to see his birth certificate yet he won't show it?

The people voted their will on this issue

 

[mad sweeney]

One non-partisan website is everyone? And they didn't ask for it?

That's even worse. Hey, the people who voted me into office and want to see something? Up yours. If Obama has nothing to hide he should just post it for his voters to see.

Seems like it's the people that didn't vote for him that are most interested.

 

[bigbottom]

(2) John McCain of Arizona was a candidate in 2000. McCain was born in Panama where his father was stationed in the service, so he would also be "natural born."

1) How do we know that McCain wasn't sired by a fair-skinned Panamanian?2) There is at least some debate as to whether a person born abroad to U.S. citizens would be "natural-born" for purposes of Constitutional eligibility for the office of the President.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

This is true. It isn't one nut. It's thousands of nuts.

Who is Obama to decide what should and should not be okay? He's there to go with the will of the people. And people want to see his birth certificate yet he won't show it?

Only a small minority of the people care about this. If he indulged the will of a very small minority of the people he'd be a terrible president. Look what happened when W indulged the will of Halliburton executives and Saudi royalty

 

[pantagrapher]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

This is true. It isn't one nut. It's thousands of nuts.

Who is Obama to decide what should and should not be okay? He's there to go with the will of the people. And people want to see his birth certificate yet he won't show it?

He's the president. And the courts agree. But by all means, keep sending the Orly Taitz's of the world out there to press this issue.

 

[mad sweeney]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

Once again, it's not his voters that are demanding this. I would be exceptionally shocked if more than 1% of Birthers voted for him.

 

[bueno]

But I believe we should hold our presidents and those seeking office to a higher standard.

I don't understand what you mean in relation to your post. "Higher standard" of what? Where they were born?

Lead should be so dense. Higher standard of proof, of course.

Higher standard than a certified government record, plus historical evidence including contemporaneous newspaper announcements?If he was on trial criminally and one of the elements was being a natural born citizen, that'd be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Not to a jury of birthers.What i think this whole debate points to is the need for independent and consistent verification of a person's eligibility to run for office. This is not something provided by the FEC - perhaps it should be. Then there would be no questions.It also shows to me at least that Obama is not serious about transparency, which is something that he ran for office on. To be certain there are a lot of other things that prove this as well.)

 

[mad sweeney]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

This is true. It isn't one nut. It's thousands of nuts.

Who is Obama to decide what should and should not be okay? He's there to go with the will of the people. And people want to see his birth certificate yet he won't show it?

I like how you keep changing tack when confronted with massive wrongness in your posts.

 

[bueno]

(2) John McCain of Arizona was a candidate in 2000. McCain was born in Panama where his father was stationed in the service, so he would also be "natural born."

1) How do we know that McCain wasn't sired by a fair-skinned Panamanian?2) There is at least some debate as to whether a person born abroad to U.S. citizens would be "natural-born" for purposes of Constitutional eligibility for the office of the President.

In the case of McCain, I belive the Canal one was US territory when he was born, so the point is moot.

 

[bueno]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

Once again, it's not his voters that are demanding this. I would be exceptionally shocked if more than 1% of Birthers voted for him.

I am a bit concerned that you seem to think he is only accountable to "his" voters. He is also my president, whether I agree with him or voted for him or not.

 

[randall146]

But I believe we should hold our presidents and those seeking office to a higher standard.

I don't understand what you mean in relation to your post. "Higher standard" of what? Where they were born?

Lead should be so dense. Higher standard of proof, of course.

Higher standard than a certified government record, plus historical evidence including contemporaneous newspaper announcements?If he was on trial criminally and one of the elements was being a natural born citizen, that'd be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Not to a jury of birthers.

Right. Because while Birthers would accept that level of evidence for any other issue and any other person's birth, they won't do it for Obama's birth. The problem therefore is not the standard of proof. The problem is the Birthers.

 

[humpback]

The race card is getting tiresome. I think the birthers are "out there" as well, but I don't think they are birthers just because he's black. It's much more about the fact that they disagree with his policies and are trying to find any way possible to get him out of office. If Obama was of German ancestry, but had the same exact policies and family background (just replace Kenya with Germany), there would still be birthers. If Obama was a 4th generation citizen, or if Jesse Jackson were president, there wouldn't be a birther movement- there would still be racists who wouldn't want him to be president, and there would still be people who strongly disagree with his policies and want him out of office, but there wouldn't be birthers.

His particular family background gives the birthers a little ray of hope that he's hiding something, but I think it has much more to do with politics and his family history than it does his skin color.

 

[pantagrapher]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

Once again, it's not his voters that are demanding this. I would be exceptionally shocked if more than 1% of Birthers voted for him.

I am a bit concerned that you seem to think he is only accountable to "his" voters. He is also my president, whether I agree with him or voted for him or not.

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

 

[The Football Freak]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I doubt anyone who voted for Obama is a Birther.

So he should ignore every American who didn't vote for him?

No, just the loonies.

I wanna see the placenta or it didn't happen. Try and short form THAT, Obama!

 

[bigbottom]

(2) John McCain of Arizona was a candidate in 2000. McCain was born in Panama where his father was stationed in the service, so he would also be "natural born."

1) How do we know that McCain wasn't sired by a fair-skinned Panamanian?2) There is at least some debate as to whether a person born abroad to U.S. citizens would be "natural-born" for purposes of Constitutional eligibility for the office of the President.

In the case of McCain, I belive the Canal one was US territory when he was born, so the point is moot.

Not moot. There is debate over whether the Canal Zone was ever sovereign U.S. territory. In the words of President Carter when the Panama Canal Treaty was signed: "We have never had sovereignty over it. We have only had the right to use it. The US Supreme Court and previous American presidents have repeatedly acknowledged the sovereignty of Panama over the Canal Zone."

 

[Lutherman2112]

He's the president. And the courts agree. But by all means, keep sending the Orly Taitz's of the world out there to press this issue.

ORLY?

 

[squistion]

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

Exactly, and I think no matter what documentation was provided it wouldn't make any difference to most of the birther crowd.

 

[jon_mx]

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

The most outrage and anger is by the rabid anti-birthers who play the race card at every turn without one shred of evidence. Blanketly cast this vile charge at everyone simply for not seeing an issue as you do. It is pretty disgusting. One way you can prove your little theory is for Obama to release it. I am sure there will be some who will hold on to the issue, but for the vast majority the issue would be behind them. It would answer my questions. I am just curious on what he is hiding, not that I think whatever it is will really change anything.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I like how you keep changing tack when confronted with massive wrongness in your posts.

Where is the wrong? He's the birther's President as well. Even if they didn't vote for him.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

Exactly, and I think no matter what documentation was provided it wouldn't make any difference to most of the birther crowd.

I think many people would be happy if he would release the long form certificate. But Hawaii conveniently can't do that.

 

[TobiasFunke]

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

Exactly, and I think no matter what documentation was provided it wouldn't make any difference to most of the birther crowd.

I think many people would be happy if he would release the long form certificate. But Hawaii conveniently can't do that.

I know, right? Pretty sure Hawaii's been in on the conspiracy from the start with their stupid rules about records. It's a well-known haven for Communists, Muslims and homosexuals, after all.

 

[jon_mx]

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

Exactly, and I think no matter what documentation was provided it wouldn't make any difference to most of the birther crowd.

I think many people would be happy if he would release the long form certificate. But Hawaii conveniently can't do that.

I know, right? Pretty sure Hawaii's been in on the conspiracy from the start with their stupid rules about records. It's a well-known haven for Communists, Muslims and homosexuals, after all.

Don't forget the blacks...you are slacking.

 

[TobiasFunke]

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

Exactly, and I think no matter what documentation was provided it wouldn't make any difference to most of the birther crowd.

I think many people would be happy if he would release the long form certificate. But Hawaii conveniently can't do that.

I know, right? Pretty sure Hawaii's been in on the conspiracy from the start with their stupid rules about records. It's a well-known haven for Communists, Muslims and homosexuals, after all.

Don't forget the blacks...you are slacking.

Take your race-baiting elsewhere, guy. This is a serious conversation about conspiracies.

 

[pantagrapher]

[Obama releases long form Jesus-verified birth certificate.]

Birther 1: "What took him so long?"

Birther 2: "I don't know but this is very unsettling for this to come out all the sudden."

Birther 1: "I agree, this just doesn't look good."

Birther 2: "Have you seen Brietbart's post about the kerning?"

Birther 1: "Yeah, they didn't even have kerning in Hawaii until 1971."

Birther 2: "Obama just made things a lot worse for himself."

 

[mad sweeney]

I don't care that Obama is black. I care he won't show his voters something they're asking for. If he has nothing to hide what's the big deal? It causes some smoke when there should be none.

I agree. Every elected official should comply with every batpoop crazy request from every out there, regardless of how insane it is and how many times their absurd theories have been rebuffed. This is the path to intelligent, productive discourse and effective government.

The stats have been posted. This isn't one nut. It's a significant portion of his voters.

Once again, it's not his voters that are demanding this. I would be exceptionally shocked if more than 1% of Birthers voted for him.

I am a bit concerned that you seem to think he is only accountable to "his" voters. He is also my president, whether I agree with him or voted for him or not.

I don't know where you got that from in my statements. I was pointing out the good Dr's point was completely wrong. Not making a statement about my beliefs of the responsibility of the President.

 

[pantagrapher]

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

Exactly, and I think no matter what documentation was provided it wouldn't make any difference to most of the birther crowd.

I think many people would be happy if he would release the long form certificate. But Hawaii conveniently can't do that.

Of course they'd be happy. More fuel for the conspiracy machine.

 

[timschochet]

I think many people would be happy if he would release the long form certificate. But Hawaii conveniently can't do that.

Sigh.Let's go over this again.

Obama has withheld NOTHING regarding his birth certificate. The reason that Hawaii will not release the "long form certificate" is because there ISN'T one.

From Wiki:

Frequent arguments of those questioning Obama's eligibility are that he has not released a photocopy of his "original" or "long form" birth certificate, but rather a redacted "short form" version. It has also been claimed that the use of the term "certification of live birth" on the document means it is not equivalent to one's "birth certificate". These arguments have been debunked numerous times by media investigations,[13] every judicial forum that has addressed the matter, and Hawaiian government officials—a consensus of whom have concluded that the certificate released by the Obama campaign is indeed his official birth certificate.[14] Asked about this, Hawaiian Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo stated that Hawaii "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate".[15] Moreover, the director of her Department has confirmed that the state "has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[16][17]

On November 9, 2008, in response to persistent rumors, the Honolulu Advertiser posted on its web site a screenshot of its August 13, 1961 birth announcement taken from its microfilmed archives. Such notices were sent to newspapers routinely by the Hawaii Department of Health.[18]

There's nothing here, people. Nothing. There's no certificate being hidden at Obama's orders. There's nothing for him to release. This argument "why doesn't he just release it?" is nonsensical.

 

[mad sweeney]

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

The most outrage and anger is by the rabid anti-birthers who play the race card at every turn without one shred of evidence. Blanketly cast this vile charge at everyone simply for not seeing an issue as you do. It is pretty disgusting. One way you can prove your little theory is for Obama to release it. I am sure there will be some who will hold on to the issue, but for the vast majority the issue would be behind them. It would answer my questions. I am just curious on what he is hiding, not that I think whatever it is will really change anything.

 

[mad sweeney]

I like how you keep changing tack when confronted with massive wrongness in your posts.

Where is the wrong? He's the birther's President as well. Even if they didn't vote for him.

The wrong is where you, in 3 or 4 posts, said that Obama's voters are calling for his BC. Of course he's their president, but they are not his voters. HTH

 

[jon_mx]

Better than the left's response:

Concerned American: The stimulus plan looks like wasteful spending

Leftist: Racist!

Concerned American: The health care bill is just too expensive

Leftist: Racist!

Concerned American: The Mosque near Ground Zero does not seem like an appropriate location

Leftist: Racist!

Concerned American: We need to cut spending

Leftist: Racist

Concerned American: Shouldn't he release his birth certificate

Leftist: Racist!

Really, is that the best you got???? Every argument ends up with charges of racism.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

And on and on you go. I'm not saying that they are really bigots or really racist or really evil, but it's definately a part of their opposition to my opinion. You know, wink wink, nudge nudge.

Nope. There's no winking and no nudging. I'm saying it directly. Let me clarify it for you. In my opinion:1. Most of the people who question Obama's birth do not consider themselves racist. 2. However, there is a subconcious element to this issue that makes it so popular, much more so than other similar inquiries of previous political figures. That subconcious element is fear of a black man with a foreign sounding name. 3. For some of the people who are "birthers", this subconcious fear is so strong that it rises to the top on occassion. Others honestly believe that their motivations are based on a sense of justice, though the fear is hidden underneath. Others still have no subconcious racist fear, and are honestly reacting to what they consider to be something wrong. It's impossible to judge each individual's motivations. That's it; that's my honest opinion. If you think, like DW, that this is cowardly, that I am somehow trying to call these people racists without having to call any single person racist, then that's your prerogative (and his). I don't agree.

AGain, tim, this is nothing new for you. This exact same post, in nature and character, is something you post in every single thread and topic you start or become enveloped in when the issues turn to bigotry, sexism and racism. It's always your honest opinion. It's always some listing caveat to the overall brush you use. The song reamins the same.

 

[timschochet]

If you're a Birther, this isn't about genuine concern and accountability; it's about reassuring each other that Obama is an Other or a Foreigner so you can feel better about your outrage. There is no birth certificate in the world that would placate a Birther.

The most outrage and anger is by the rabid anti-birthers who play the race card at every turn without one shred of evidence. Blanketly cast this vile charge at everyone simply for not seeing an issue as you do. It is pretty disgusting. One way you can prove your little theory is for Obama to release it. I am sure there will be some who will hold on to the issue, but for the vast majority the issue would be behind them. It would answer my questions. I am just curious on what he is hiding, not that I think whatever it is will really change anything.

Yeah, except that this already happened, and you still don't believe it.

 

[matuski]

Never mind, Bueno. I've got your answer.

The answer is that if you run for president, you need to produce a copy of your birth certificate to prove you are a natural born citizen as well.Most likely he's a natural born citizen, so what is his problem?

I doubt there is a problem.If anything, like me, he gets great amusement watching people like you get your panties in a wad over it.If I were him I would intentionally drag this out forever, even find ways to rekindle it on a regular basis. Arguments like yours do more for him than he ever could.

My panties aren't in a wad. Actually, this could come back to bite him. Just takes one candidate to hold up his/her own certified birth certificate and say "here's mine, where's yours? What else are you hiding?" to plant the seeds of doubt in independent voters.

For rational people with no dog in this fight, I'd argue it would achieve the opposite.Obama is playing this beautifully by not acknowledging it at all, letting people discredit themselves better than he ever could.

 

[timschochet]

And on and on you go. I'm not saying that they are really bigots or really racist or really evil, but it's definately a part of their opposition to my opinion. You know, wink wink, nudge nudge.

Nope. There's no winking and no nudging. I'm saying it directly. Let me clarify it for you. In my opinion:1. Most of the people who question Obama's birth do not consider themselves racist. 2. However, there is a subconcious element to this issue that makes it so popular, much more so than other similar inquiries of previous political figures. That subconcious element is fear of a black man with a foreign sounding name. 3. For some of the people who are "birthers", this subconcious fear is so strong that it rises to the top on occassion. Others honestly believe that their motivations are based on a sense of justice, though the fear is hidden underneath. Others still have no subconcious racist fear, and are honestly reacting to what they consider to be something wrong. It's impossible to judge each individual's motivations. That's it; that's my honest opinion. If you think, like DW, that this is cowardly, that I am somehow trying to call these people racists without having to call any single person racist, then that's your prerogative (and his). I don't agree.

AGain, tim, this is nothing new for you. This exact same post, in nature and character, is something you post in every single thread and topic you start or become enveloped in when the issues turn to bigotry, sexism and racism. It's always your honest opinion. It's always some listing caveat to the overall brush you use. The song reamins the same.

Well, I'm sorry but you're wrong. I invite you to find a thread about gay marriage in which I suggested that the opposition was rooted in bigotry against gays. I invite you to find a thread about Israel in which I have suggested that the opposition was rooted in anti-Semtism. In both cases, I have argued the exact opposite many times. So I can only assume you are reading me selectively and reaching false conclusions which were previously in your mind.

 

[mad sweeney]

Better than the left's response:

Concerned American: The stimulus plan looks like wasteful spending

Leftist: Racist!

Concerned American: The health care bill is just too expensive

Leftist: Racist!

Concerned American: The Mosque near Ground Zero does not seem like an appropriate location

Leftist: Racist!

Concerned American: We need to cut spending

Leftist: Racist

Concerned American: Shouldn't he release his birth certificate

Leftist: Racist!

Really, is that the best you got???? Every argument ends up with charges of racism.

If only you were anywhere near that (and by that, I mean near the same solar system) reasonable in your protests against The Dirty Muslims and Their Monument To Their Successful Attacks and Spitting On America Mosque...because you don't like their name or where they were getting their money, even though they didn't have any yet! Looks like selective memory runs strong in you.

 

[timschochet]

Obama is playing this beautifully by not acknowledging it at all, letting people discredit themselves better than he ever could.

Except that he has acknowledged this on several occasions, and provided the evidence requested. It wasn't enough. The Birthers are asking for a form that does not exist. Let me repeat: Obama has hidden NOTHING.

 

[pantagrapher]

27, baby. 27.

 

[timschochet]

What shocking to me is that this myth that Obama refuses to release the "long form, original" birth certificate has become so strong that it is widely accepted even by those who aren't birthers.

 

[mad sweeney]

Better than the left's response:

Concerned American: The stimulus plan looks like wasteful spending Socialsin

Leftist: Racist!

Concerned American: The health care bill is just too expensive like Socialism

Leftist: Racist!

Concerned American: The Mosque near Ground Zero Mosquedoes not seem like an appropriate location is a monument to terror and these dirty terrorists don't get to worship near the site that some crazies committed murder, even though We as Republicans don't have anything against them and believe in American Freedom (just not for Muslims (but we're ok with them, really)).

Leftist: Racist!

Concerned American: We need to cut spending, we just don't know where because if we cut anything we won't get re-elected

Leftist: Racist

Concerned American: Shouldn't he release his birth certificate, even though we believe in State's Rights and the state (along with Congress and the Supreme Court) have determined he's eligible.

Leftist: Racist!

Rightist: Your fringe, partisan hack, diseased liberal websites have no merit whatsoever and can't be believed, even a little bit. But my equally dubious source is as insightful, prescient and mandated from God and is obviously THE source for FACTS in the matter. I bring FACTS!

Leftist: I have no response to that.

Really, is that the best you got???? Every argument ends up with charges of racism.

Wait, wait. Let me try it again!

 

[Yankee23Fan]

And on and on you go. I'm not saying that they are really bigots or really racist or really evil, but it's definately a part of their opposition to my opinion. You know, wink wink, nudge nudge.

Nope. There's no winking and no nudging. I'm saying it directly. Let me clarify it for you. In my opinion:1. Most of the people who question Obama's birth do not consider themselves racist. 2. However, there is a subconcious element to this issue that makes it so popular, much more so than other similar inquiries of previous political figures. That subconcious element is fear of a black man with a foreign sounding name. 3. For some of the people who are "birthers", this subconcious fear is so strong that it rises to the top on occassion. Others honestly believe that their motivations are based on a sense of justice, though the fear is hidden underneath. Others still have no subconcious racist fear, and are honestly reacting to what they consider to be something wrong. It's impossible to judge each individual's motivations. That's it; that's my honest opinion. If you think, like DW, that this is cowardly, that I am somehow trying to call these people racists without having to call any single person racist, then that's your prerogative (and his). I don't agree.

AGain, tim, this is nothing new for you. This exact same post, in nature and character, is something you post in every single thread and topic you start or become enveloped in when the issues turn to bigotry, sexism and racism. It's always your honest opinion. It's always some listing caveat to the overall brush you use. The song reamins the same.

Well, I'm sorry but you're wrong. I invite you to find a thread about gay marriage in which I suggested that the opposition was rooted in bigotry against gays. I invite you to find a thread about Israel in which I have suggested that the opposition was rooted in anti-Semtism. In both cases, I have argued the exact opposite many times. So I can only assume you are reading me selectively and reaching false conclusions which were previously in your mind.

It's not something I care that much about. But just so you know, it's people like you that have taken the racist brush and painted so many people and used it so much that have caused it to have no meaning anymore at all. Now, I'm not saying you are doing anything decietful or with evil intentions, and I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of your beliefs that lead you to these conclusions, but in the end all you have done in these many threads where it comes up is continue to reinforce my belief that the people who throw that label around lose a significant amount of credibililty to me when discussing the issue they threw it into. Nothin personal, and nothing I would get in arms up over, nor for that matter get into an ifight over, but the desensitization that has occurred has basically resulted in me ignoring almost every charge of racism in our political arena.It's a vial, useless and tired charge and while you may not fit the bill, it is usually used by those that have no independant ability to converse with adults about adult topics. It does result, though, in me being able to sift through the nonsense in many debates because when the word comes up I ignore the rest of the words from the person who did it.