TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Please stop pointing this out. We're trying to get to 50 pages here.
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The Birther Conspiracy Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Tim, that is just a bunch of spin. Hawaii most definitely has archives of all the original records. The original documents contains doctors signatures and such certifying the birth. So if Obama was born in Hawaii, there IS a record of that which most definitely has not been released. Sorry, but Wiki is in total spin mode there.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
I wish I had the patience to continue my fishing trip but I'm going to call it a day after getting some nibbles for the last couple of pages. Fun stuff in here but at this point I think everyone is shticking it up.
randall146
Footballguy
It's kind of suspicious that it doesn't exist though.
timschochet
Footballguy
I actually agree somewhat with your sentiments; I just don't think they apply to me. And one of the problems with the cry of racism is that it has created a backlash, so much so that people don't want to hear it, even when it's obvious. It's like the boy who cried wolf. But in this instance, the wolf is, IMO, very real.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Awesome. Wikipedia: just another tool of the left-wing media elite.I can't believe I ignored this thread for so long. It's better than The Onion.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes. You're correct. There is a form that matches the Certificate of Live Birth, except that it has doctor's signatures. And guess what? This form is not available for public viewing, but it has been seen by Hawaii public officials, and this statement was the result:I, Dr. Chiyome ####ino, director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai'i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008, over eight months ago.
Now, Jon, for rational people that should be the end of it. Unless you are calling this doctor a liar, and you are challenging the integrity of the government of the State of Hawaii. Are you calling them liars?
Here is a sample of the document that Wiki denies the existence of. Notice the doctor's signature. The parents signature. The registers signature. The name of the hospital is on it. Wow, when did Obama release that document. Sorry, but that document SHOULD exist in the archives, and a Wiki posting saying there aren't any other records is total bull####.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
fyi
"Anybody" would by definition include people who could provide information to the contrary, if such information existed. You think wikipedia is in spin mode? Head on over there and edit for accuracy.
hth
I have no doubt he is telling the absolute truth. I totally believe there is a record which verifies his birth. I just don't think it was filed by a hospital or signed by a doctor. It is my belief the record was filed by his mom or a relative. There is nothing that has been disclosed which refutes this possibility and the parsing of words by the officials seems to reinforce that. The only one I am calling a liar is Obama. The others are just protecting his privacy as the law requires while making truthful statements.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
IT might be. And that's a problem. But in all these political and public issues where a black person does something or doesn't do something, the charge of racism doesn't need to be made. Let's take the nutjobs this thread is for.Obama must release his birth information. Or somesuch modified charge. Now, there are two aspects to this charge: The desired end result and the reasons for it.The desired end result is simple - there aren't too many supporters of his that are singing this flat tune, so its opponents that want to do it. Because it weakens him politically, in their minds, and possibly may result in him somehow not being President. That action alone is nothing new in American politics and has nothing to do with race. Jefferson did it to Washington. Hamilton did it to Adams. Southerners did it to Lincoln. Anti-Catholics did it to Kennedy. We are not dealing with a new phenomenon of political oppoenents spanning the spectrum from disagreement to delusional. We've had President's shot over such delusional things. So, when discussing this avenue of the current topic, race doesn't need to play into it at all for you to bang them.The reasons for it span the spectrum obviously but the single overriding factor is the above - they don't support him. Unless you fall into the minority camp that says people only hate him because he's black (another fringe group of morons that don't deserve to be considered part of adult conversation) than you accept that there are legitimate reasons for the opposition. Well, focus on them. Maybe there are birthers clinging to this argument because they simply cannot support a liberal - easy enough to hit out of the park. You can go through a litany of these things and never get to racism.Now, does this mean that there is likely no racist element to any single person in this group? Of course not. Americans span the line of every belief and idea. You are going to hit a target if you throw enough darts. But you don't need to throw that one when there are hundreds of legitimate ones to throw first at these people. But instead racism comes up first and as a result that specific charge takes over the debate. It therefore clouds anything good from the debate that could happen. People that are hit with the charge that have no racism bone to throw immediately go on the defensive and grasp harder to the lunatic fringe to defend themselves.If your goal is adult conversation, do it. If your goal is to make fun of them, do that too. They deserve it. But don't go use the nuclear option and then be surprised when everyone starts to clinge to that specific thing and the debate turns to a different avenue of discussion.How about this simple reason for these people to be of the opinion that Obama is hiding something - they don't like him and don't trust him and are hoping to find something to validate their beliefs to get rid of him in 4 years. That groups them with every single person int he country who is active in politics for the most part over the past, oh, I don't know, 250 years.I actually agree somewhat with your sentiments; I just don't think they apply to me. And one of the problems with the cry of racism is that it has created a backlash, so much so that people don't want to hear it, even when it's obvious. It's like the boy who cried wolf. But in this instance, the wolf is, IMO, very real.It's not something I care that much about. But just so you know, it's people like you that have taken the racist brush and painted so many people and used it so much that have caused it to have no meaning anymore at all. Now, I'm not saying you are doing anything decietful or with evil intentions, and I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of your beliefs that lead you to these conclusions, but in the end all you have done in these many threads where it comes up is continue to reinforce my belief that the people who throw that label around lose a significant amount of credibililty to me when discussing the issue they threw it into. Nothin personal, and nothing I would get in arms up over, nor for that matter get into an ifight over, but the desensitization that has occurred has basically resulted in me ignoring almost every charge of racism in our political arena.It's a vial, useless and tired charge and while you may not fit the bill, it is usually used by those that have no independant ability to converse with adults about adult topics. It does result, though, in me being able to sift through the nonsense in many debates because when the word comes up I ignore the rest of the words from the person who did it.
matuski
Footballguy
I for one encourage you on your tirade along these lines of belief over fact.You should not let this stand as long as you believe otherwise!
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Well, to that end there also hasn't been any proof offered to refute the possibility that he was born by a doctor in the hospital but before the paperwork could get filled out a hole in the space time continuum opened and L. Ron Hubbard walked through and touched young Barack's head, signed the Thetan true birth certificate and then went back to his universe to wait for the day when Obama would rise above all earthling vessels and take his place as Judge Governor of Xenathu Prime.So, you know, the White House has some work to do.
timschochet
Footballguy
Thoughtful response, as always. And much of what you say makes sense. But I really believe that in the case of the birthers, there is something deeper at work than simple opposition to Obama and his policies, or a belief that he is hiding something. I think there is a fear that this country is moving away from the white Christians who have always controlled it, and is becoming a nation of different colors. I think this is the base root of the fears about Obama, about illegal immigrants, about Muslims. They're all different sides of the same coin. It's a fear that the America we know is ending.IT might be. And that's a problem. But in all these political and public issues where a black person does something or doesn't do something, the charge of racism doesn't need to be made. Let's take the nutjobs this thread is for.Obama must release his birth information. Or somesuch modified charge. Now, there are two aspects to this charge: The desired end result and the reasons for it.The desired end result is simple - there aren't too many supporters of his that are singing this flat tune, so its opponents that want to do it. Because it weakens him politically, in their minds, and possibly may result in him somehow not being President. That action alone is nothing new in American politics and has nothing to do with race. Jefferson did it to Washington. Hamilton did it to Adams. Southerners did it to Lincoln. Anti-Catholics did it to Kennedy. We are not dealing with a new phenomenon of political oppoenents spanning the spectrum from disagreement to delusional. We've had President's shot over such delusional things. So, when discussing this avenue of the current topic, race doesn't need to play into it at all for you to bang them.The reasons for it span the spectrum obviously but the single overriding factor is the above - they don't support him. Unless you fall into the minority camp that says people only hate him because he's black (another fringe group of morons that don't deserve to be considered part of adult conversation) than you accept that there are legitimate reasons for the opposition. Well, focus on them. Maybe there are birthers clinging to this argument because they simply cannot support a liberal - easy enough to hit out of the park. You can go through a litany of these things and never get to racism.Now, does this mean that there is likely no racist element to any single person in this group? Of course not. Americans span the line of every belief and idea. You are going to hit a target if you throw enough darts. But you don't need to throw that one when there are hundreds of legitimate ones to throw first at these people. But instead racism comes up first and as a result that specific charge takes over the debate. It therefore clouds anything good from the debate that could happen. People that are hit with the charge that have no racism bone to throw immediately go on the defensive and grasp harder to the lunatic fringe to defend themselves.If your goal is adult conversation, do it. If your goal is to make fun of them, do that too. They deserve it. But don't go use the nuclear option and then be surprised when everyone starts to clinge to that specific thing and the debate turns to a different avenue of discussion.How about this simple reason for these people to be of the opinion that Obama is hiding something - they don't like him and don't trust him and are hoping to find something to validate their beliefs to get rid of him in 4 years. That groups them with every single person int he country who is active in politics for the most part over the past, oh, I don't know, 250 years.I actually agree somewhat with your sentiments; I just don't think they apply to me. And one of the problems with the cry of racism is that it has created a backlash, so much so that people don't want to hear it, even when it's obvious. It's like the boy who cried wolf. But in this instance, the wolf is, IMO, very real.It's not something I care that much about. But just so you know, it's people like you that have taken the racist brush and painted so many people and used it so much that have caused it to have no meaning anymore at all. Now, I'm not saying you are doing anything decietful or with evil intentions, and I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of your beliefs that lead you to these conclusions, but in the end all you have done in these many threads where it comes up is continue to reinforce my belief that the people who throw that label around lose a significant amount of credibililty to me when discussing the issue they threw it into. Nothin personal, and nothing I would get in arms up over, nor for that matter get into an ifight over, but the desensitization that has occurred has basically resulted in me ignoring almost every charge of racism in our political arena.It's a vial, useless and tired charge and while you may not fit the bill, it is usually used by those that have no independant ability to converse with adults about adult topics. It does result, though, in me being able to sift through the nonsense in many debates because when the word comes up I ignore the rest of the words from the person who did it.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
...Doesn't seem like a productive use of my day...we already have copies of what long form certificates look like as Jon has posted, as well as numerous statements by Hawaii officials that such a form is on file in Hawaii.If Tim wants to latch onto a lone wiki article that anybody can update in the face of all of that evidence than he's crazier then a true-blue birther.
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
By looking for the darker motives of the people who are claiming darker motives of their target, you end up playing their game. It's all one big conspiracy the only question is who is nuttier.Thoughtful response, as always. And much of what you say makes sense. But I really believe that in the case of the birthers, there is something deeper at work than simple opposition to Obama and his policies, or a belief that he is hiding something. I think there is a fear that this country is moving away from the white Christians who have always controlled it, and is becoming a nation of different colors. I think this is the base root of the fears about Obama, about illegal immigrants, about Muslims. They're all different sides of the same coin. It's a fear that the America we know is ending.IT might be. And that's a problem. But in all these political and public issues where a black person does something or doesn't do something, the charge of racism doesn't need to be made. Let's take the nutjobs this thread is for.Obama must release his birth information. Or somesuch modified charge. Now, there are two aspects to this charge: The desired end result and the reasons for it.The desired end result is simple - there aren't too many supporters of his that are singing this flat tune, so its opponents that want to do it. Because it weakens him politically, in their minds, and possibly may result in him somehow not being President. That action alone is nothing new in American politics and has nothing to do with race. Jefferson did it to Washington. Hamilton did it to Adams. Southerners did it to Lincoln. Anti-Catholics did it to Kennedy. We are not dealing with a new phenomenon of political oppoenents spanning the spectrum from disagreement to delusional. We've had President's shot over such delusional things. So, when discussing this avenue of the current topic, race doesn't need to play into it at all for you to bang them.The reasons for it span the spectrum obviously but the single overriding factor is the above - they don't support him. Unless you fall into the minority camp that says people only hate him because he's black (another fringe group of morons that don't deserve to be considered part of adult conversation) than you accept that there are legitimate reasons for the opposition. Well, focus on them. Maybe there are birthers clinging to this argument because they simply cannot support a liberal - easy enough to hit out of the park. You can go through a litany of these things and never get to racism.Now, does this mean that there is likely no racist element to any single person in this group? Of course not. Americans span the line of every belief and idea. You are going to hit a target if you throw enough darts. But you don't need to throw that one when there are hundreds of legitimate ones to throw first at these people. But instead racism comes up first and as a result that specific charge takes over the debate. It therefore clouds anything good from the debate that could happen. People that are hit with the charge that have no racism bone to throw immediately go on the defensive and grasp harder to the lunatic fringe to defend themselves.If your goal is adult conversation, do it. If your goal is to make fun of them, do that too. They deserve it. But don't go use the nuclear option and then be surprised when everyone starts to clinge to that specific thing and the debate turns to a different avenue of discussion.How about this simple reason for these people to be of the opinion that Obama is hiding something - they don't like him and don't trust him and are hoping to find something to validate their beliefs to get rid of him in 4 years. That groups them with every single person int he country who is active in politics for the most part over the past, oh, I don't know, 250 years.I actually agree somewhat with your sentiments; I just don't think they apply to me. And one of the problems with the cry of racism is that it has created a backlash, so much so that people don't want to hear it, even when it's obvious. It's like the boy who cried wolf. But in this instance, the wolf is, IMO, very real.
My belief is consistent with all the facts. The whole Obama birth certificate case is a house of cards. I presented a theory which if true brings down that house. There are just too many pieces missing. No photographs of baby Obama in his mothers arms in the hospital. No friends to testify that he was in fact born there. No doctor, nurse or anyone who can recall this blessed event. Without a signed document by a doctor, I am not buying it. Yes we have a newspaper clipping and the state of Hawaii accepting some unidentified vital record which they accepted as proof of his birth in Hawaii. It is not that rock solid of a case. Really, it is not.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
fyiYou're not the only person who can edit wikipedia. There's plenty of insane birthers out there. Apparently none have felt like it was a productive use of their day?Also, those little numbers in the brackets in what Tim posted are footnotes. Those footnotes link to other sources that validate what is written in the text. If you want to challenge the validity something in that text, that's what you need to challenge. hth
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
But Yankee makes a very good point.Stop jumping on the one argument that makes rational discussion impossible (as much as that is possible in a thread like this). You've just done it in the Egypt thread as well.He pointed out numerous ways to have a debate to make them look like fools, but it always comes back to bigotry for you.Thoughtful response, as always. And much of what you say makes sense. But I really believe that in the case of the birthers, there is something deeper at work than simple opposition to Obama and his policies, or a belief that he is hiding something. I think there is a fear that this country is moving away from the white Christians who have always controlled it, and is becoming a nation of different colors. I think this is the base root of the fears about Obama, about illegal immigrants, about Muslims. They're all different sides of the same coin. It's a fear that the America we know is ending.IT might be. And that's a problem. But in all these political and public issues where a black person does something or doesn't do something, the charge of racism doesn't need to be made. Let's take the nutjobs this thread is for.Obama must release his birth information. Or somesuch modified charge. Now, there are two aspects to this charge: The desired end result and the reasons for it.The desired end result is simple - there aren't too many supporters of his that are singing this flat tune, so its opponents that want to do it. Because it weakens him politically, in their minds, and possibly may result in him somehow not being President. That action alone is nothing new in American politics and has nothing to do with race. Jefferson did it to Washington. Hamilton did it to Adams. Southerners did it to Lincoln. Anti-Catholics did it to Kennedy. We are not dealing with a new phenomenon of political oppoenents spanning the spectrum from disagreement to delusional. We've had President's shot over such delusional things. So, when discussing this avenue of the current topic, race doesn't need to play into it at all for you to bang them.The reasons for it span the spectrum obviously but the single overriding factor is the above - they don't support him. Unless you fall into the minority camp that says people only hate him because he's black (another fringe group of morons that don't deserve to be considered part of adult conversation) than you accept that there are legitimate reasons for the opposition. Well, focus on them. Maybe there are birthers clinging to this argument because they simply cannot support a liberal - easy enough to hit out of the park. You can go through a litany of these things and never get to racism.Now, does this mean that there is likely no racist element to any single person in this group? Of course not. Americans span the line of every belief and idea. You are going to hit a target if you throw enough darts. But you don't need to throw that one when there are hundreds of legitimate ones to throw first at these people. But instead racism comes up first and as a result that specific charge takes over the debate. It therefore clouds anything good from the debate that could happen. People that are hit with the charge that have no racism bone to throw immediately go on the defensive and grasp harder to the lunatic fringe to defend themselves.If your goal is adult conversation, do it. If your goal is to make fun of them, do that too. They deserve it. But don't go use the nuclear option and then be surprised when everyone starts to clinge to that specific thing and the debate turns to a different avenue of discussion.How about this simple reason for these people to be of the opinion that Obama is hiding something - they don't like him and don't trust him and are hoping to find something to validate their beliefs to get rid of him in 4 years. That groups them with every single person int he country who is active in politics for the most part over the past, oh, I don't know, 250 years.I actually agree somewhat with your sentiments; I just don't think they apply to me. And one of the problems with the cry of racism is that it has created a backlash, so much so that people don't want to hear it, even when it's obvious. It's like the boy who cried wolf. But in this instance, the wolf is, IMO, very real.It's not something I care that much about. But just so you know, it's people like you that have taken the racist brush and painted so many people and used it so much that have caused it to have no meaning anymore at all. Now, I'm not saying you are doing anything decietful or with evil intentions, and I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of your beliefs that lead you to these conclusions, but in the end all you have done in these many threads where it comes up is continue to reinforce my belief that the people who throw that label around lose a significant amount of credibililty to me when discussing the issue they threw it into. Nothin personal, and nothing I would get in arms up over, nor for that matter get into an ifight over, but the desensitization that has occurred has basically resulted in me ignoring almost every charge of racism in our political arena.It's a vial, useless and tired charge and while you may not fit the bill, it is usually used by those that have no independant ability to converse with adults about adult topics. It does result, though, in me being able to sift through the nonsense in many debates because when the word comes up I ignore the rest of the words from the person who did it.
Considering there is ample evidence that records exist beyond what has been released, those little footnotes are nothing but spin that deflect the facts. Tim has since admitted there are additional records. Those denying it are just playing games with the semantics.
bigbottom
Footballguy
When you promised that you would think harder about these matters before attempting to justify your attitudes further, I sorta thought you were going to actually think about it, rather than spend the next 5 pages talking about it, attempting to set up polls, and, yes, attempting to defend and justify your attitudes.timschochet said:
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mad sweeney
Footballguy
Yes jon, every thing that disputes your belief over fact (I thought you were the one that brings facts!?) is nothing but spin. Always your same tired excuse to spit in the face of actual facts presented to you. Spin, spin, spin. Oh, but your incredibly "unbiased" sources (I guess the ones that aren't dependent on your gut feelings and beliefs) don't use spin at all and are completely credible. Don't you ever get tired of spinning everything into your delusional patterns?
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
There are only two kinds of people: birthers, and those who are warming up to the idea.
the moops
Footballguy
A crumbling house of cards!
mad sweeney
Footballguy
CANARD STORM!!!!
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
As has been said ... shine on you crazy diamond.
Joe T
Footballguy
This post reminds me of the time John Wiley Price accused a fellow county commissioner of being racist because he referred to paperwork getting lost possibly going into a "black hole."
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I wonder what the end game here is though. I'm sure you know, just because you came up witha theory doens't mean that the theory is fact. But, in all this nonsense, have you or any of the birthers ever sat down and figured out the actual true mechanics of electing some to to the Office of President. (tim, watch)We all know the elections and the vetting that takes place for the most part. That's all the easy stuff. But the actual mechanics of the election of President and Vice President are never seen by the public. The public elects their electors for the college in November. The winning slate of electors meet at its state's capital on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December, about six weeks after the election, to vote. They then send a record of that vote to Congress. Beofre they send that record of vote to Congress they certify the results in the capacity given to them which is backed up by the respective Secretaries of State. There is some minor federal rules that they have to follow. Once each state certifies its electoral results those votes go to Congress.
The Electoral College never meets as one body. Although procedures in each state vary slightly, the electors generally follow a similar series of steps, and the Congress has constitutional authority to regulate the procedures the states follow. The meeting is opened by the election certification official—often each state's Secretary of State or equivalent—who reads the Certificate of Ascertainment. This document sets forth who was chosen to cast the electoral votes. Those present answer to their name, and they then fill any vacancies in their number. The next step is the selection of a president or chairman of the meeting, sometimes also with a vice chairman. The electors sometimes choose a secretary, often not himself an elector, to take the minutes of the meeting. In many states, political officials give short speeches at this point in the proceedings.
When the time for balloting arrives, the electors choose one or two people to act as tellers. Some states provide for the placing in nomination of a candidate to receive the electoral votes (the candidate for President of the political party of the electors). Each elector submits a written ballot with the name of a candidate for President.
After the voting is complete, the electors complete the Certificate of Vote. This document states the number of electoral votes cast for President and Vice President and who received those votes. Five copies of the Certificate of Vote are completed and signed by each elector. Multiple copies of the Certificate of Vote are signed, in order to provide multiple originals in case one is lost. One copy is sent to the President of the U.S. Senate (the sitting Vice President of the United States) by certified mail.
A staff member of the Vice President collects the Certificates of Vote as they arrive and prepares them for the joint session of the Congress. The Certificates are arranged—unopened—in alphabetical order and placed in two special mahogany boxes. Alabama through Missouri (including Washington, D.C.) are placed in one box and Montana through Wyoming are placed in the other box.
The Twelfth Amendment mandates that the Congress assemble in joint session to count the electoral votes and declare the winners of the election. The session is ordinarily required to take place on January 6 in the calendar year immediately following the meetings of the presidential electors.
The meeting is held at 1:00 p.m. in the Chamber of the U.S. House of Representatives. The sitting Vice President is expected to preside, but in several cases the President pro tempore of the Senate has chaired the proceedings instead. The Vice President and the Speaker of the House sit at the podium, with the Vice President in the seat of the Speaker of the House. Senate pages bring in the two mahogany boxes containing each state's certified vote and place them on tables in front of the Senators and Representatives. Each house appoints two tellers to count the vote (normally one member of each political party). Relevant portions of the Certificate of Vote are read for each state, in alphabetical order. If there are no objections the chamber declares the President and Vice PResident and the session is closed.
Now, here is where we are. Barack Obama - a sitting United States Senator who also served in the Illinois State Senate, decalred his candidacy for President of the United States in 2006. He had already gone through the necessary criminal background checks as a State Senator (and yes they do happen). He had gone through all the necessary federal screenings and checks, including specific security clearance through the office of the Executive, Secret Service, NSA, FBI, CIA and a few more alphabet agencies that you never hear of that help run the intelligence apparatus of the United States government.
As a bona fide candidate for PResident he was then taken to secure locations to be briefed on national security issues by top level governmental representatives, including but not limited to the PResident of the United States, the Vice PResident of the United States, the Speaker of the House, the Senate President pro tempore, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the National Security Advisors, the Secretaries of the Army and Navy, the Secretary of Defense, high level intelligence officials of the FBI, CIA and NSA, the Chairmans of the House ans Senate committes on intelligence, oversight, military operations and security, and every other department that has a say in intelligence information given to the President of the United States.
He then publically continued to run for the office where not less than 5,000 organizations reviewed him, his past words, his past writings, his life and everything in between, including media, non profits, military, intelligence, federal government, foreign allies, foreign enemies and even Mickey Mouse.
Throughout all that, in the end, the electors empanelled and voted for him by majority over John McCain, and the Congress certified the results previously certified by 50 Secretaries of State, and thereafter the Supreme Court required him to take his oath as required by the Constitution of the United States.
So, you are telling me, basically that, because you – some idude – have some theory on how he was born some 45 years ago in Hawaii that this discredits and calls into the question the acts of the State of Hawaii, President of the United States, Vice President of the United States, 50 state Secretaries of State, 435 electors, the most powerful world power to ever grace this planet, the FBI, CIA, NSA, every media outlet in the world, and some 50,000 other people and entities that have accepted the legitimacy of the election of Barack Obama as President of the United States under the laws of the Constitution? That’s your stance here?
That takes some iron clad, uranium enriched Rawlings certified issued balls.
randall146
Footballguy
PINOCLEQUAKE!
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
Recently graduated from a FEMA re-education camp?
randall146
Footballguy
Yankee23fan
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
The entire birther community successfullyYankee23fan
I had fun writing it ( and copying a few things).As I stated several times, there is no end game. This is all an intellectual exercise that will just be a tidbit of history. Only the federal government through the courts could do anything about this, and no matter what is ever discovered, nothing is going to be done to overturn the election. So yes, it is a waste of time. But still, there is something more to this story that someday will be revealed.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Ok. At least I got to do a little writing on the Electoral College again. So it's all good I guess.
matuski
Footballguy
I love how you utterly ignore the entirety of his post.Keep up the good fight and never let pesky logic and facts get in your way!
"Someday" you will be vindicated!
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phrozen
Footballguy
I am a casual observer of the political threads and Tim does play the race card a lot.Most of his post was waxing philosophical that played lose with the facts. It was very poetic. I have never seen anything that suggests an elected official has to undergo background checks to get access to information. I am pretty certain that would be a violation of the separation of powers. They get elected and take the oath of office, that is it. Now all other government employees who have access to sensitive information, and that would include any staffers do go through thorough background checks. Also, claiming Electors as a source of vetting? Really, those are just political hacks who have been appointed for their loyalty. I don't see where the vetting is there.Here is a link...I love how you utterly ignore the entirety of his post.Keep up the good fight and never let pesky logic and facts get in your way!
"Someday" you will be vindicated!
Another link...
Another link....
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timschochet
Footballguy
You're right. I get caught in arguments and I defend myself far too much. But you're correct; I won't post any more about it.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
I'm shocked that Road Dog has only 35 posts...It seems that everytime I click the thread, he has 3 or 4 cringe-worthingly bad postings...
randall146
Footballguy
I was kidding. Your electoral treatise brought the hammer.The entire birther community successfullyI had fun writing it ( and copying a few things).
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Can't wait for some yutz to bring this up during the 2012 election. Maybe even in a debate. God, how priceless would that be?
Fennis
Footballguy
we gave it a run
Saints-Man
Footballguy
I really think this whole conversation is quite silly, but I am hopped up on pain meds. I didn't see your theory, but am only going to comment on what your quoted post.President Obama is approximately my age. My parents had no pictures of me in my mothers arms in the hospital. The only person who is living that could verify where I was born is my 81 year old aunt. Except for her, there is not a person alive who could verify that I was born in Mercy Hospital in New Orleans. I have an older living sibling and she is only 5 years older than me and she has no memory of my birth. She does have a memory of me of a baby crying keeping her up at night and she wanted my parents to return me to the hospital, but no memory of me in the hospital.President Obama has more proof than I do of where he was born. And one more point that I don't think gets brought up enough....wasn't his mother, Ann Dunham, an American citizen born in Kansas? If true(and I believe it is), that would make President Obama a citizen of the US no matter where he was born in the world. This whole argument from the extreme right is downright wacky.(My contribution to get it to 30 pagesjon_mx said:
)
Neofight
Footballguy
What, she forget her iPhone in her rush to the delivery room?
Neofight
Footballguy
Pretty sure Obama is actually Yucatec for "Ruler of Atlantis".
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