The Birther Conspiracy Thread (2 Viewers)

[Fennis]

World Net Daily sure has found something to make them money. They sure sell a lot of crap (DVDs, bumper-stickers, books, etc.) on that site around Obama's birth. That is what this is about. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

[matuski]

The issue really isn't if the state of Hawaii legally recognizes Obama as being born in Hawaii, I think it is quite apparent they do. But does that mean he is a natural born citizen in accordance with the requirements to become President of the United States? They are two different things. Hawaiian rules are very lax and there are documents which can be filed such that the state does legally acknowledge someone being born in their state without it being so. I have never questioned the word of Hawaiian state officials or the authenticity of any of the documents. My only question has always been what document was filed to establish Obama was born there. Oddly, there seems to be no one alive who can recount the blessed date. No baby pictures. No friends who recall. No doctors or nurses who recall. Nothing, outside of this unseen document which establishes this fact. There is nothing whacky about insisting on seeing the actual proof. As citizens it is in fact our civic duty to verify it as it is the duty of Congress when they certify the election. All we have are second hand accounts by state officials who are legally obligated not to disclose specific facts. The COLB which the campaign produced is probably 100% accurate on what it portrays are the official Hawaiian position.

You don't question the state authority.. but completely ignore that the current Governor of Hawaii was friends with Obama's parents and does indeed remember?You seem pretty sure of yourself questioning Hawaii's "lax rules"... you have some experience with them that someone who has lived in Hawaii (like me) wouldn't know about? Ridiculous. You asserion he didn't have friends - ridiculous. That a doctor or nurse would remember an individual baby from 50 years back - ridiculous. No baby pictures - WTF? You have convinced yourself neither he nor anyone else even knows his birthdate... You are why he should egg this on for eternity. Obama loves you and thanks you from the bottom of his heart.

 

[timschochet]

The issue really isn't if the state of Hawaii legally recognizes Obama as being born in Hawaii, I think it is quite apparent they do. But does that mean he is a natural born citizen in accordance with the requirements to become President of the United States? They are two different things. Hawaiian rules are very lax and there are documents which can be filed such that the state does legally acknowledge someone being born in their state without it being so. I have never questioned the word of Hawaiian state officials or the authenticity of any of the documents. My only question has always been what document was filed to establish Obama was born there. Oddly, there seems to be no one alive who can recount the blessed date. No baby pictures. No friends who recall. No doctors or nurses who recall. Nothing, outside of this unseen document which establishes this fact. There is nothing whacky about insisting on seeing the actual proof. As citizens it is in fact our civic duty to verify it as it is the duty of Congress when they certify the election. All we have are second hand accounts by state officials who are legally obligated not to disclose specific facts. The COLB which the campaign produced is probably 100% accurate on what it portrays as the official Hawaiian position.

Really? Can you give an example of "lax" Hawaiian rules and somebody who got away with being born there when it really didn't happen? Or are you just making this stuff up?

 

[Jewell]

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii.”

- Hawaii State Director of Health Chiyome Fukino

According to Jewell, there's never been a "critical review" of this document.

That's some high quality comedy to me. To the best of my knowledge, I was the very first person to cite Fukino in this thread (p.13), and this is what I wrote then...

I believe what the below woman has to say about the official birth certificate still being on file and that certificate confirms that Obama was born in Hawaii. Given the debate thus far I can see where others would feel more secure having a government official of more standing examine the document to put the matter to rest. That's all.

Hawaii officials confirm Obama’s original birth certificate still exists (July 28, 2009; Honolulu Advertiser)

Hawai'i's Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama's original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage, but the announcement is unlikely to satisfy conspiracy theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya.

"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."

The Health Department's director reiterated yesterday that she has seen Obama's birth records.

"I, Dr. Chiyome ####ino, director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai'i and is a natural-born American citizen," ####ino said in a statement. "I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008, over eight months ago."

Now, several months later, you use the exact same source I said I was comfortable with as your definitive proof the birth certificate exists? So are you invalidating your own source by saying Fukino does not rise to the level of "critical review"? Or are you willing to admit you flubbed my position?My position is that I'm comfortable with her authentication, but if somebody disagrees with me they're not necessarily a racist, knuckle-dragging, conspiracy theorist. For instance, just today suggesting that the Factcheck people might not have the proper credentials to assess birth certificate authenticity received a as though only a moron would suggest something like that. Yet assessing an expert's qualifications to testify on a matter happens every single day the courts are open in this country. It's standard operating procedure.

 

[jon_mx]

Really? Can you give an example of "lax" Hawaiian rules and somebody who got away with being born there when it really didn't happen? Or are you just making this stuff up?

Below is the Hawaiian Law on the subject. It grants the Department of Health the authority to give a birth certificate even if the child was born outside the state provided that the child's parent can document they have been a legal resident of the state one year prior. There are reportedly thousands of people who get Hawaiian birth certificates who were born outside the state, but had a way to demonstrate they met the residency requirement. As a result the child is eligible to receive the benefits such as financial assistance of being a Hawaiian.

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

© The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

 

[timschochet]

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate. State law (Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

"No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii."

- Hawaii State Director of Health Chiyome Fukino

According to Jewell, there's never been a "critical review" of this document.

That's some high quality comedy to me. To the best of my knowledge, I was the very first person to cite Fukino in this thread (p.13), and this is what I wrote then...

I believe what the below woman has to say about the official birth certificate still being on file and that certificate confirms that Obama was born in Hawaii. Given the debate thus far I can see where others would feel more secure having a government official of more standing examine the document to put the matter to rest. That's all.

Hawaii officials confirm Obama's original birth certificate still exists (July 28, 2009; Honolulu Advertiser)

Hawai'i's Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama's original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage, but the announcement is unlikely to satisfy conspiracy theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya.

"We don't destroy vital records," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records."

The Health Department's director reiterated yesterday that she has seen Obama's birth records.

"I, Dr. Chiyome ####ino, director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai'i and is a natural-born American citizen," ####ino said in a statement. "I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008, over eight months ago."

Now, several months later, you use the exact same source I said I was comfortable with as your definitive proof the birth certificate exists? So are you invalidating your own source by saying Fukino does not rise to the level of "critical review"? Or are you willing to admit you flubbed my position?My position is that I'm comfortable with her authentication, but if somebody disagrees with me they're not necessarily a racist, knuckle-dragging, conspiracy theorist. For instance, just today suggesting that the Factcheck people might not have the proper credentials to assess birth certificate authenticity received a as though only a moron would suggest something like that. Yet assessing an expert's qualifications to testify on a matter happens every single day the courts are open in this country. It's standard operating procedure.

Well, I didn't recall your mention of Fukino. It's a pretty long thread. But last night you wrote that the birth certificate has not been subjected to "critical review". What exactly do you mean by this?

 

[timschochet]

Really? Can you give an example of "lax" Hawaiian rules and somebody who got away with being born there when it really didn't happen? Or are you just making this stuff up?

Below is the Hawaiian Law on the subject. It grants the Department of Health the authority to give a birth certificate even if the child was born outside the state provided that the child's parent can document they have been a legal resident of the state one year prior. There are reportedly thousands of people who get Hawaiian birth certificates who were born outside the state, but had a way to demonstrate they met the residency requirement. As a result the child is eligible to receive the benefits such as financial assistance of being a Hawaiian.

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

© The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

Sure, probably most state have this. But I'm betting they don't get birth certificates claiming that the out of state child was actually BORN IN HAWAII. That would be pretty absurd, wouldn't it?

 

[Bronco Billy]

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii.”

- Hawaii State Director of Health Chiyome Fukino

According to Jewell, there's never been a "critical review" of this document. According to Bronco Billy and Brock Middleton, there may not even BE a document. Which means that either this state official is lying through her teeth, or somebody's got their facts wrong. Wonder who it could be?

The Governor of Hawaii - a man who said he was going to "torpedo" the birthers - now says after a thorough search of the records that he could find no more than a hand written record of Obama's birth, which he admits could have been submitted after the birth that could have occurred anywhere.Not only is that consistent with everything known to date, but also is the account of a high government official firmly in Obama's corner.

 

[Orange Crush]

The issue really isn't if the state of Hawaii legally recognizes Obama as being born in Hawaii, I think it is quite apparent they do. But does that mean he is a natural born citizen in accordance with the requirements to become President of the United States? They are two different things. Hawaiian rules are very lax and there are documents which can be filed such that the state does legally acknowledge someone being born in their state without it being so. I have never questioned the word of Hawaiian state officials or the authenticity of any of the documents. My only question has always been what document was filed to establish Obama was born there. Oddly, there seems to be no one alive who can recount the blessed date. No baby pictures. No friends who recall. No doctors or nurses who recall. Nothing, outside of this unseen document which establishes this fact. There is nothing whacky about insisting on seeing the actual proof. As citizens it is in fact our civic duty to verify it as it is the duty of Congress when they certify the election. All we have are second hand accounts by state officials who are legally obligated not to disclose specific facts. The COLB which the campaign produced is probably 100% accurate on what it portrays as the official Hawaiian position.

Snopes.com, quoting a story in the Buffalo News dated Jan. 20, 2009 by Paula Voell, titled "Teacher from Kenmore Recalls Obama Was a Focused Student."

When Barack Hussein Obama places his hand on the Bible to take the oath of office as 44th president of the United States, Barbara Nelson of Kenmore will undoubtedly think back to the day he was born. It was Aug. 4, 1961, at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu.

"I may be the only person left who specifically remembers his birth. His parents are gone, his grandmother is gone, the obstetrician who delivered him is gone," said Nelson, referring to Dr. Rodney T. West, who died in February at the age of 98. Here's the story: Nelson was having dinner at the Outrigger Canoe Club on Waikiki Beach with Dr. West, the father of her college friend, Jo-Anne. Making conversation, Nelson turned to Dr. West and said: "So, tell me something interesting that happened this week," she recalls.

His response: "Well, today, Stanley had a baby. Now that's something to write home about."

The new mother was Stanley (later referred to by her middle name of Ann) Dunham, and the baby was Barack Hussein Obama.

"I penned the name on a napkin, and I did write home about it," said Nelson, knowing that her father, Stanley A. Czurles, director of the Art Education Department at Buffalo State College, would be interested in the "Stanley" connection.

She also remembers Dr. West mentioning that the baby's father was the first black student at the University of Hawaii and how taken he was by the baby's name.

"I remember Dr. West saying 'Barack Hussein Obama, now that's a musical name,'" said Nelson.

Ten years after that memorable birth announcement, Nelson would hear the Obama name again. This time, the father, now a Kenyan government official, was coming to speak at the Punahou School in Honolulu where Nelson was teaching and where his 10-year-old son was a newly enrolled fifth-grader.

 

[jon_mx]

Really? Can you give an example of "lax" Hawaiian rules and somebody who got away with being born there when it really didn't happen? Or are you just making this stuff up?

Below is the Hawaiian Law on the subject. It grants the Department of Health the authority to give a birth certificate even if the child was born outside the state provided that the child's parent can document they have been a legal resident of the state one year prior. There are reportedly thousands of people who get Hawaiian birth certificates who were born outside the state, but had a way to demonstrate they met the residency requirement. As a result the child is eligible to receive the benefits such as financial assistance of being a Hawaiian.

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

© The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

Sure, probably most state have this. But I'm betting they don't get birth certificates claiming that the out of state child was actually BORN IN HAWAII. That would be pretty absurd, wouldn't it?

I am pretty sure Hawaii is about the only state which issues birth certificates to people they know were not born there. Where in this law does it differentiate between a birth certificate between the two types? Everything I have heard from state officials is there is only one birth certificate. They require no proof of where the child was born, so they can simply state Hawaii and that is what appears on the birth certificate. That is as lax of a law as you can possibly have.ETA....The law was changed in 1982, so that it would indicates the Certificate of Foreign Birth. Prior to that, when Obama was born, they issued Birth Certificates.

 

[jon_mx]

The issue really isn't if the state of Hawaii legally recognizes Obama as being born in Hawaii, I think it is quite apparent they do. But does that mean he is a natural born citizen in accordance with the requirements to become President of the United States? They are two different things. Hawaiian rules are very lax and there are documents which can be filed such that the state does legally acknowledge someone being born in their state without it being so. I have never questioned the word of Hawaiian state officials or the authenticity of any of the documents. My only question has always been what document was filed to establish Obama was born there. Oddly, there seems to be no one alive who can recount the blessed date. No baby pictures. No friends who recall. No doctors or nurses who recall. Nothing, outside of this unseen document which establishes this fact. There is nothing whacky about insisting on seeing the actual proof. As citizens it is in fact our civic duty to verify it as it is the duty of Congress when they certify the election. All we have are second hand accounts by state officials who are legally obligated not to disclose specific facts. The COLB which the campaign produced is probably 100% accurate on what it portrays as the official Hawaiian position.

Snopes.com, quoting a story in the Buffalo News dated Jan. 20, 2009 by Paula Voell, titled "Teacher from Kenmore Recalls Obama Was a Focused Student."

When Barack Hussein Obama places his hand on the Bible to take the oath of office as 44th president of the United States, Barbara Nelson of Kenmore will undoubtedly think back to the day he was born. It was Aug. 4, 1961, at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu.

"I may be the only person left who specifically remembers his birth. His parents are gone, his grandmother is gone, the obstetrician who delivered him is gone," said Nelson, referring to Dr. Rodney T. West, who died in February at the age of 98. Here's the story: Nelson was having dinner at the Outrigger Canoe Club on Waikiki Beach with Dr. West, the father of her college friend, Jo-Anne. Making conversation, Nelson turned to Dr. West and said: "So, tell me something interesting that happened this week," she recalls.

His response: "Well, today, Stanley had a baby. Now that's something to write home about."

The new mother was Stanley (later referred to by her middle name of Ann) Dunham, and the baby was Barack Hussein Obama.

"I penned the name on a napkin, and I did write home about it," said Nelson, knowing that her father, Stanley A. Czurles, director of the Art Education Department at Buffalo State College, would be interested in the "Stanley" connection.

She also remembers Dr. West mentioning that the baby's father was the first black student at the University of Hawaii and how taken he was by the baby's name.

"I remember Dr. West saying 'Barack Hussein Obama, now that's a musical name,'" said Nelson.

Ten years after that memorable birth announcement, Nelson would hear the Obama name again. This time, the father, now a Kenyan government official, was coming to speak at the Punahou School in Honolulu where Nelson was teaching and where his 10-year-old son was a newly enrolled fifth-grader.

Yes. This is a third hand account of someone who never saw the baby. The author of the story inserted the name of the hospital, that was not stated by this lady. There is nothing in her story that establishes the location, that was just the narrative of the writer.

 

[timschochet]

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate. State law (Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

"No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii."

- Hawaii State Director of Health Chiyome Fukino

According to Jewell, there's never been a "critical review" of this document. According to Bronco Billy and Brock Middleton, there may not even BE a document. Which means that either this state official is lying through her teeth, or somebody's got their facts wrong. Wonder who it could be?

The Governor of Hawaii - a man who said he was going to "torpedo" the birthers - now says after a thorough search of the records that he could find no more than a hand written record of Obama's birth, which he admits could have been submitted after the birth that could have occurred anywhere.

Not only is that consistent with everything known to date, but also is the account of a high government official firmly in Obama's corner.

Umm no. This is not what happened. From Associated Pressemocratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it is against state law to release private documents, his office said yesterday.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he cannot disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."

Abercrombie, who was a friend of Obama's parents and knew him as a child, launched an effort last month to find a way to dispel conspiracy theories that the president was born elsewhere. The governor said at the time he was bothered by people who questioned Obama's birthplace for political reasons.

But Abercrombie's investigation reached a dead end when Louie told him the law restricted his options.

Hawaii's privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest.

Hawaii's health director said in 2008 and 2009 that she had seen and verified Obama's original vital records, and birth notices in two Honolulu newspapers were published within days of Obama's birth in Honolulu at what was then called Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital.

Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo confirmed again yesterday that Obama's name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

That information, called index data, shows a listing for "Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male," according to the department's website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.

"The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That's an indication," Okubo said. "I can't talk about anyone's records."

The Obama campaign issued a certificate of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing his birth date, city and name, along with his parents' names and races.

 

[Orange Crush]

The issue really isn't if the state of Hawaii legally recognizes Obama as being born in Hawaii, I think it is quite apparent they do. But does that mean he is a natural born citizen in accordance with the requirements to become President of the United States? They are two different things. Hawaiian rules are very lax and there are documents which can be filed such that the state does legally acknowledge someone being born in their state without it being so. I have never questioned the word of Hawaiian state officials or the authenticity of any of the documents. My only question has always been what document was filed to establish Obama was born there. Oddly, there seems to be no one alive who can recount the blessed date. No baby pictures. No friends who recall. No doctors or nurses who recall. Nothing, outside of this unseen document which establishes this fact. There is nothing whacky about insisting on seeing the actual proof. As citizens it is in fact our civic duty to verify it as it is the duty of Congress when they certify the election. All we have are second hand accounts by state officials who are legally obligated not to disclose specific facts. The COLB which the campaign produced is probably 100% accurate on what it portrays as the official Hawaiian position.

Snopes.com, quoting a story in the Buffalo News dated Jan. 20, 2009 by Paula Voell, titled "Teacher from Kenmore Recalls Obama Was a Focused Student."

When Barack Hussein Obama places his hand on the Bible to take the oath of office as 44th president of the United States, Barbara Nelson of Kenmore will undoubtedly think back to the day he was born. It was Aug. 4, 1961, at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu.

"I may be the only person left who specifically remembers his birth. His parents are gone, his grandmother is gone, the obstetrician who delivered him is gone," said Nelson, referring to Dr. Rodney T. West, who died in February at the age of 98. Here's the story: Nelson was having dinner at the Outrigger Canoe Club on Waikiki Beach with Dr. West, the father of her college friend, Jo-Anne. Making conversation, Nelson turned to Dr. West and said: "So, tell me something interesting that happened this week," she recalls.

His response: "Well, today, Stanley had a baby. Now that's something to write home about."

The new mother was Stanley (later referred to by her middle name of Ann) Dunham, and the baby was Barack Hussein Obama.

"I penned the name on a napkin, and I did write home about it," said Nelson, knowing that her father, Stanley A. Czurles, director of the Art Education Department at Buffalo State College, would be interested in the "Stanley" connection.

She also remembers Dr. West mentioning that the baby's father was the first black student at the University of Hawaii and how taken he was by the baby's name.

"I remember Dr. West saying 'Barack Hussein Obama, now that's a musical name,'" said Nelson.

Ten years after that memorable birth announcement, Nelson would hear the Obama name again. This time, the father, now a Kenyan government official, was coming to speak at the Punahou School in Honolulu where Nelson was teaching and where his 10-year-old son was a newly enrolled fifth-grader.

Yes. This is a third hand account of someone who never saw the baby. The author of the story inserted the name of the hospital, that was not stated by this lady. There is nothing in her story that establishes the location, that was just the narrative of the writer.

Really? C'mon, Jon. You can do a much better job of character assassination than that. I mean, this woman is obviously an Obama dupe who was paid off to say that. I'm sure the money she received will be a lot easier to find than a Kenyan birth certificate. I think you should spend the next three years working on this angle.

 

[Bronco Billy]

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate. State law (Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

"No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii."

- Hawaii State Director of Health Chiyome Fukino

According to Jewell, there's never been a "critical review" of this document. According to Bronco Billy and Brock Middleton, there may not even BE a document. Which means that either this state official is lying through her teeth, or somebody's got their facts wrong. Wonder who it could be?

The Governor of Hawaii - a man who said he was going to "torpedo" the birthers - now says after a thorough search of the records that he could find no more than a hand written record of Obama's birth, which he admits could have been submitted after the birth that could have occurred anywhere.

Not only is that consistent with everything known to date, but also is the account of a high government official firmly in Obama's corner.

Umm no. This is not what happened. From Associated Pressemocratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it is against state law to release private documents, his office said yesterday.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he cannot disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."

Abercrombie, who was a friend of Obama's parents and knew him as a child, launched an effort last month to find a way to dispel conspiracy theories that the president was born elsewhere. The governor said at the time he was bothered by people who questioned Obama's birthplace for political reasons.

But Abercrombie's investigation reached a dead end when Louie told him the law restricted his options.

Hawaii's privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest.

Hawaii's health director said in 2008 and 2009 that she had seen and verified Obama's original vital records, and birth notices in two Honolulu newspapers were published within days of Obama's birth in Honolulu at what was then called Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital.

Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo confirmed again yesterday that Obama's name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

That information, called index data, shows a listing for "Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male," according to the department's website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.

"The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That's an indication," Okubo said. "I can't talk about anyone's records."

The Obama campaign issued a certificate of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing his birth date, city and name, along with his parents' names and races.

So we can take his word that he saw "Little Barry" his whole young life even though is is well documented that "Little Barry" was never in Hawaii for any significant time until he was 10 yrs old, but we can't believe him when he says there is only a hand written note in the records - when we all know he is a staunch Obama supporter? How about the story Abercrombie told to a friend of decades, Mike Evans?

 

[timschochet]

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate. State law (Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

"No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii."

- Hawaii State Director of Health Chiyome Fukino

According to Jewell, there's never been a "critical review" of this document. According to Bronco Billy and Brock Middleton, there may not even BE a document. Which means that either this state official is lying through her teeth, or somebody's got their facts wrong. Wonder who it could be?

The Governor of Hawaii - a man who said he was going to "torpedo" the birthers - now says after a thorough search of the records that he could find no more than a hand written record of Obama's birth, which he admits could have been submitted after the birth that could have occurred anywhere.

Not only is that consistent with everything known to date, but also is the account of a high government official firmly in Obama's corner.

Umm no. This is not what happened. From Associated Pressemocratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it is against state law to release private documents, his office said yesterday.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he cannot disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."

Abercrombie, who was a friend of Obama's parents and knew him as a child, launched an effort last month to find a way to dispel conspiracy theories that the president was born elsewhere. The governor said at the time he was bothered by people who questioned Obama's birthplace for political reasons.

But Abercrombie's investigation reached a dead end when Louie told him the law restricted his options.

Hawaii's privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest.

Hawaii's health director said in 2008 and 2009 that she had seen and verified Obama's original vital records, and birth notices in two Honolulu newspapers were published within days of Obama's birth in Honolulu at what was then called Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital.

Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo confirmed again yesterday that Obama's name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

That information, called index data, shows a listing for "Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male," according to the department's website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.

"The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That's an indication," Okubo said. "I can't talk about anyone's records."

The Obama campaign issued a certificate of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing his birth date, city and name, along with his parents' names and races.

So we can take his word that he saw "Little Barry" his whole young life even though is is well documented that "Little Barry" was never in Hawaii for any significant time until he was 10 yrs old, but we can't believe him when he says there is only a hand written note in the records - when we all know he is a staunch Obama supporter? How about the story Abercrombie told to a friend of decades, Mike Evans?

What "hand written note"?? Where in that story does it mention that? What is your source for this?

 

[Bronco Billy]

"There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate. State law (Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

"No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii."

- Hawaii State Director of Health Chiyome Fukino

According to Jewell, there's never been a "critical review" of this document. According to Bronco Billy and Brock Middleton, there may not even BE a document. Which means that either this state official is lying through her teeth, or somebody's got their facts wrong. Wonder who it could be?

The Governor of Hawaii - a man who said he was going to "torpedo" the birthers - now says after a thorough search of the records that he could find no more than a hand written record of Obama's birth, which he admits could have been submitted after the birth that could have occurred anywhere.

Not only is that consistent with everything known to date, but also is the account of a high government official firmly in Obama's corner.

Umm no. This is not what happened. From Associated Pressemocratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it is against state law to release private documents, his office said yesterday.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he cannot disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said.

"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."

Abercrombie, who was a friend of Obama's parents and knew him as a child, launched an effort last month to find a way to dispel conspiracy theories that the president was born elsewhere. The governor said at the time he was bothered by people who questioned Obama's birthplace for political reasons.

But Abercrombie's investigation reached a dead end when Louie told him the law restricted his options.

Hawaii's privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest.

Hawaii's health director said in 2008 and 2009 that she had seen and verified Obama's original vital records, and birth notices in two Honolulu newspapers were published within days of Obama's birth in Honolulu at what was then called Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital.

Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo confirmed again yesterday that Obama's name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

That information, called index data, shows a listing for "Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male," according to the department's website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.

"The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That's an indication," Okubo said. "I can't talk about anyone's records."

The Obama campaign issued a certificate of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing his birth date, city and name, along with his parents' names and races.

So we can take his word that he saw "Little Barry" his whole young life even though is is well documented that "Little Barry" was never in Hawaii for any significant time until he was 10 yrs old, but we can't believe him when he says there is only a hand written note in the records - when we all know he is a staunch Obama supporter? How about the story Abercrombie told to a friend of decades, Mike Evans?

What "hand written note"?? Where in that story does it mention that? What is your source for this?

Abercrombie himself. I quoted him last page.This comes down one man, and one man only, being capable of providing the proof being asked for by portions of his constituency and stolidly refusing to do so.

Read my sig line below.

 

[jon_mx]

Really? C'mon, Jon. You can do a much better job of character assassination than that. I mean, this woman is obviously an Obama dupe who was paid off to say that. I'm sure the money she received will be a lot easier to find than a Kenyan birth certificate. I think you should spend the next three years working on this angle.

Really, I can do better than that? If I offered up some third hand account of some lady who remembers a day she written a note on some napkin 50 years ago as proof that Obama was born in Kenya, you would rightfully laugh your butt off all day long. I am not character assassinating this lady. I am sure she remembers something, but this is not proof of anything. The lady tells the story like it was yesterday, which it wasn't. Even if everything she said is true, it did not establish anything. Stanley could of had her baby in Kenya from the quotes in the story.

 

[Orange Crush]

I have never questioned the word of Hawaiian state officials or the authenticity of any of the documents.

Yes, you have. You question their word in almost every single post. Hawaiian state officials have said that they cannot release the original documents because of state law, but that they have examined them and have assured everyone that Obama was born in Hawaii. Not that he has a certificate on file in Hawaii, but that he was born in Hawaii (as has been said numerous times in this thread, when a child receives a Hawaii birth certificate when they weren't born in Hawaii, the certificate states that the child was not born in Hawaii). If you're not calling them liars, then you're saying they are too stupid to come to correct conclusions from examining a legal document, even though their very jobs require them to do just that on a daily basis.

 

[Orange Crush]

Really? C'mon, Jon. You can do a much better job of character assassination than that. I mean, this woman is obviously an Obama dupe who was paid off to say that. I'm sure the money she received will be a lot easier to find than a Kenyan birth certificate. I think you should spend the next three years working on this angle.

Really, I can do better than that? If I offered up some third hand account of some lady who remembers a day she written a note on some napkin 50 years ago as proof that Obama was born in Kenya, you would rightfully laugh your butt off all day long. I am not character assassinating this lady. I am sure she remembers something, but this is not proof of anything. The lady tells the story like it was yesterday, which it wasn't. Even if everything she said is true, it did not establish anything. Stanley could of had her baby in Kenya from the quotes in the story.

Oddly, there seems to be no one alive who can recount the blessed date that I believe. No baby pictures. No friends who recall that I believe. No doctors or nurses who recall because they've died. Nothing that I find credible, outside of this unseen document which establishes this fact.

Then you should have written your statement like this.

 

[timschochet]

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

Bronco Billy, this quote from the Daily Mail story, which you have based all of your recent claims upon, is in complete contradiction with every mainstream reporting I have ever read on this subject, including the Associated Press story which I posted earlier. I have no idea what the motivations are of the British Daily Mail; I do know that they are now reporting the Donald Trump claims. I have a strong feeling this is not a reputable source in this instance.

 

[datonn]

So we can take his word that he saw "Little Barry" his whole young life even though is is well documented that "Little Barry" was never in Hawaii for any significant time until he was 10 yrs old, but we can't believe him when he says there is only a hand written note in the records - when we all know he is a staunch Obama supporter? How about the story Abercrombie told to a friend of decades, Mike Evans?

Can we try a little experiment, Bronco Billy? How about you tell us when you were supposedly born, what hospital you were supposedly born in, and who the doctor was who supposedly delivered you (if you can even remember). Assuming you're middle-aged (like a lot of the rest of us jabbering in this thread), and assuming most doctors and nurses were at LEAST in their early 30s by the time they were in the position to be responsible for you and your mother's safety during the delivery process, that would put a lot of those doctors and nurses in their 70s-80s-90s, correct? Now:

1. How many of them do you think are still alive?

2. How many of them do you think remember the birth of little Bronco Billy back in the 60s-70s, and or have any written documentation to support those "memories?"

Now if I wanted to, I could then talk about how "convenient" it is that many of those medical professionals are dead (so as not to corroborate your story about being born at ____________ on ___________), as well as how none of the living can seem to recall the details of your birth. I could also talk about how "convenient" it is that the only people left who will corroborate your story are elderly family members (AKA staunch "Bronco Billy" supporters). And that birth certificate you might be able to produce? Well, can you prove it wasn't forged? Prove, beyond a reasonable doubt...since apparently the new standard in such cases is guilty until proven innocent.

Of course, your rebuttal should be "well, I'm not POTUS! The POTUS has different requirements/expectations than I do." Valid point. However, put yourself in Obama's shoes for just a few minutes and pretend you were running for POTUS in 2012. Imagine the above scenario, as well as being challenged in courts and you needing to produce proof (on the above) to clear your own name, since you're guilty until proven innocent. You think when Obama was born, his parents and all the medical professionals at those hospital thought to themselves "Ooh...we need to be EXTRA-SPECIAL CAREFUL with this one...as this incubator we're putting him in is Incubator One, the blanket he is wrapped in is Blanket One, and this birth certificate will eventually be Birth Certificate One!" Nope. BHO was just another bi-racial kid being born to (probably) poor parents in a State that is probably 50-times the melting pot of most of the States that vote "Red" in political elections.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

The issue really isn't if the state of Hawaii legally recognizes Obama as being born in Hawaii, I think it is quite apparent they do. But does that mean he is a natural born citizen in accordance with the requirements to become President of the United States? They are two different things. Hawaiian rules are very lax and there are documents which can be filed such that the state does legally acknowledge someone being born in their state without it being so. I have never questioned the word of Hawaiian state officials or the authenticity of any of the documents. My only question has always been what document was filed to establish Obama was born there. Oddly, there seems to be no one alive who can recount the blessed date. No baby pictures. No friends who recall. No doctors or nurses who recall. Nothing, outside of this unseen document which establishes this fact. There is nothing whacky about insisting on seeing the actual proof. As citizens it is in fact our civic duty to verify it as it is the duty of Congress when they certify the election. All we have are second hand accounts by state officials who are legally obligated not to disclose specific facts. The COLB which the campaign produced is probably 100% accurate on what it portrays as the official Hawaiian position.

Snopes.com, quoting a story in the Buffalo News dated Jan. 20, 2009 by Paula Voell, titled "Teacher from Kenmore Recalls Obama Was a Focused Student."

When Barack Hussein Obama places his hand on the Bible to take the oath of office as 44th president of the United States, Barbara Nelson of Kenmore will undoubtedly think back to the day he was born. It was Aug. 4, 1961, at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu.

"I may be the only person left who specifically remembers his birth. His parents are gone, his grandmother is gone, the obstetrician who delivered him is gone," said Nelson, referring to Dr. Rodney T. West, who died in February at the age of 98. Here's the story: Nelson was having dinner at the Outrigger Canoe Club on Waikiki Beach with Dr. West, the father of her college friend, Jo-Anne. Making conversation, Nelson turned to Dr. West and said: "So, tell me something interesting that happened this week," she recalls.

His response: "Well, today, Stanley had a baby. Now that's something to write home about."

The new mother was Stanley (later referred to by her middle name of Ann) Dunham, and the baby was Barack Hussein Obama.

"I penned the name on a napkin, and I did write home about it," said Nelson, knowing that her father, Stanley A. Czurles, director of the Art Education Department at Buffalo State College, would be interested in the "Stanley" connection.

She also remembers Dr. West mentioning that the baby's father was the first black student at the University of Hawaii and how taken he was by the baby's name.

"I remember Dr. West saying 'Barack Hussein Obama, now that's a musical name,'" said Nelson.

Ten years after that memorable birth announcement, Nelson would hear the Obama name again. This time, the father, now a Kenyan government official, was coming to speak at the Punahou School in Honolulu where Nelson was teaching and where his 10-year-old son was a newly enrolled fifth-grader.

http://www.pearlharborstories.org/survivor.php5?id=767&page=story

Then, after practicing on the Big Island of Hawaii for a year, he returned to Honolulu and joined the Obstetrics and Gynecological department of the Straub Clinic. In December of l956, after delivering at least 5,000 babies - and other things, he retired from the practice of medicine.

name any big sporting event and you will always find more people claiming to have been there than physically possible

 

[Bronco Billy]

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

Bronco Billy, this quote from the Daily Mail story, which you have based all of your recent claims upon, is in complete contradiction with every mainstream reporting I have ever read on this subject, including the Associated Press story which I posted earlier. I have no idea what the motivations are of the British Daily Mail; I do know that they are now reporting the Donald Trump claims. I have a strong feeling this is not a reputable source in this instance.

You honestly expected the LSM to report this? Are you denying that this is a quote from Abecrombie himself? You're saying that it is completely fabricated and Abecrombie never stated that?

 

[Bronco Billy]

So we can take his word that he saw "Little Barry" his whole young life even though is is well documented that "Little Barry" was never in Hawaii for any significant time until he was 10 yrs old, but we can't believe him when he says there is only a hand written note in the records - when we all know he is a staunch Obama supporter? How about the story Abercrombie told to a friend of decades, Mike Evans?

Can we try a little experiment, Bronco Billy? How about you tell us when you were supposedly born, what hospital you were supposedly born in, and who the doctor was who supposedly delivered you (if you can even remember). Assuming you're middle-aged (like a lot of the rest of us jabbering in this thread), and assuming most doctors and nurses were at LEAST in their early 30s by the time they were in the position to be responsible for you and your mother's safety during the delivery process, that would put a lot of those doctors and nurses in their 70s-80s-90s, correct? Now:

1. How many of them do you think are still alive?

2. How many of them do you think remember the birth of little Bronco Billy back in the 60s-70s, and or have any written documentation to support those "memories?"

Now if I wanted to, I could then talk about how "convenient" it is that many of those medical professionals are dead (so as not to corroborate your story about being born at ____________ on ___________), as well as how none of the living can seem to recall the details of your birth. I could also talk about how "convenient" it is that the only people left who will corroborate your story are elderly family members (AKA staunch "Bronco Billy" supporters). And that birth certificate you might be able to produce? Well, can you prove it wasn't forged? Prove, beyond a reasonable doubt...since apparently the new standard in such cases is guilty until proven innocent.

Of course, your rebuttal should be "well, I'm not POTUS! The POTUS has different requirements/expectations than I do." Valid point. However, put yourself in Obama's shoes for just a few minutes and pretend you were running for POTUS in 2012. Imagine the above scenario, as well as being challenged in courts and you needing to produce proof (on the above) to clear your own name, since you're guilty until proven innocent. You think when Obama was born, his parents and all the medical professionals at those hospital thought to themselves "Ooh...we need to be EXTRA-SPECIAL CAREFUL with this one...as this incubator we're putting him in is Incubator One, the blanket he is wrapped in is Blanket One, and this birth certificate will eventually be Birth Certificate One!" Nope. BHO was just another bi-racial kid being born to (probably) poor parents in a State that is probably 50-times the melting pot of most of the States that vote "Red" in political elections.

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

 

[SofaKings]

People are still up in arms about this?

 

[datonn]

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

Doesn't matter...since Barack Obama ALSO has a passport as well (long before he became POTUS)...so if he can "fake it" and get a passport to enter and exit the country, so could you.

 

[bueno]

...There's no excuse for letting this go so far if he does have proper documentation.

link
The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

Who do you keep bringing this up? The question is not about his citizenship (proof of which needs to be presented to receive a passport), but whether he is a natural born citizen. These standards of proof are as different.I do have a question though, looking at the short form. There is no signature of the attending physician or even one of the parents that I can see. Is this information on the back side? I am somewhat uncomfortable with unsigned documents being proof, if that is the case.

I don't see how you can defend Obama is this issue anyway. Here is a man that ran on a platform of Change, of government transparency, yet he has been anything but, in his own past, or in governance. He is already proven to me that he is a political phony. It wouldn't surprise me if other things about him as equally phony.

I do believe that the solution going forward is for the FEC to issue better standards of proof for eligibility to run for that office.

 

[Orange Crush]

The issue really isn't if the state of Hawaii legally recognizes Obama as being born in Hawaii, I think it is quite apparent they do. But does that mean he is a natural born citizen in accordance with the requirements to become President of the United States? They are two different things. Hawaiian rules are very lax and there are documents which can be filed such that the state does legally acknowledge someone being born in their state without it being so. I have never questioned the word of Hawaiian state officials or the authenticity of any of the documents. My only question has always been what document was filed to establish Obama was born there. Oddly, there seems to be no one alive who can recount the blessed date. No baby pictures. No friends who recall. No doctors or nurses who recall. Nothing, outside of this unseen document which establishes this fact. There is nothing whacky about insisting on seeing the actual proof. As citizens it is in fact our civic duty to verify it as it is the duty of Congress when they certify the election. All we have are second hand accounts by state officials who are legally obligated not to disclose specific facts. The COLB which the campaign produced is probably 100% accurate on what it portrays as the official Hawaiian position.

Snopes.com, quoting a story in the Buffalo News dated Jan. 20, 2009 by Paula Voell, titled "Teacher from Kenmore Recalls Obama Was a Focused Student."

When Barack Hussein Obama places his hand on the Bible to take the oath of office as 44th president of the United States, Barbara Nelson of Kenmore will undoubtedly think back to the day he was born. It was Aug. 4, 1961, at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu.

"I may be the only person left who specifically remembers his birth. His parents are gone, his grandmother is gone, the obstetrician who delivered him is gone," said Nelson, referring to Dr. Rodney T. West, who died in February at the age of 98. Here's the story: Nelson was having dinner at the Outrigger Canoe Club on Waikiki Beach with Dr. West, the father of her college friend, Jo-Anne. Making conversation, Nelson turned to Dr. West and said: "So, tell me something interesting that happened this week," she recalls.

His response: "Well, today, Stanley had a baby. Now that's something to write home about."

The new mother was Stanley (later referred to by her middle name of Ann) Dunham, and the baby was Barack Hussein Obama.

"I penned the name on a napkin, and I did write home about it," said Nelson, knowing that her father, Stanley A. Czurles, director of the Art Education Department at Buffalo State College, would be interested in the "Stanley" connection.

She also remembers Dr. West mentioning that the baby's father was the first black student at the University of Hawaii and how taken he was by the baby's name.

"I remember Dr. West saying 'Barack Hussein Obama, now that's a musical name,'" said Nelson.

Ten years after that memorable birth announcement, Nelson would hear the Obama name again. This time, the father, now a Kenyan government official, was coming to speak at the Punahou School in Honolulu where Nelson was teaching and where his 10-year-old son was a newly enrolled fifth-grader.

http://www.pearlharb...=767&page=story

Then, after practicing on the Big Island of Hawaii for a year, he returned to Honolulu and joined the Obstetrics and Gynecological department of the Straub Clinic. In December of l956, after delivering at least 5,000 babies - and other things, he retired from the practice of medicine.

name any big sporting event and you will always find more people claiming to have been there than physically possible

Interesting. Especially since this bio says he didn't retire until 1975, when he was 65 years old. So your article says that he retired at the age of 44, after delivering over 5000 babies in 7 years. The bio I found in a 5 second google search had the 5K delivery stat as well, but over the course of his entire career, not just the first 7 years of his post-WW II career.

 

[bigbottom]

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

First you say that Hawaiians can't play Little League and now they can't get passports either?

 

[Bronco Billy]

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

Doesn't matter...since Barack Obama ALSO has a passport as well (long before he became POTUS)...so if he can "fake it" and get a passport to enter and exit the country, so could you.

Unless of course he was named on his mother's passport - which he was when he was a youngster - and therefore would only have to renew his passport when he applied for his own.Weak effort, but you did take a shot at it.

 

[Bronco Billy]

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

First you say that Hawaiians can't play Little League and now they can't get passports either?

Good morning, bb

 

[bigbottom]

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

First you say that Hawaiians can't play Little League and now they can't get passports either?

Good morning, bb

Mornin'!

 

[datonn]

Unless of course he was named on his mother's passport - which he was when he was a youngster - and therefore would only have to renew his passport when he applied for his own.Weak effort, but you did take a shot at it.

Aah, but what if his MOTHER faked her birth certificate? I mean, the Bible Belt and half the South is essentially like another country anyway ...but what if her parents lied about her birth/citizenship as well?! What if Obama was born to TWO citizens of other countries? Hmm...maybe we can go back and interview the doctors/nurses who delivered her? Or dust off the files from an archive somewhere to pick her birth certificate apart for obvious forgeries?!And you still haven't proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you haven't faked your long-form birth certificate. You CLAIM to have one, but we haven't seen it. Maybe you could start by posting a copy as a .jpg in this thread...for all of us armchair experts to scrutinize?!

 

[jon_mx]

Hawaiians need passports?

 

[the moops]

This whole natural born citizen thing is stupid anyhow. Let anyone who wants to be president run for it.

 

[bigbottom]

Hawaiians need passports?

They're citizens of the world. Like the United Colors of Bennetton.

 

[matuski]

Hawaiians need passports?

You need us to answer that?

 

[timschochet]

Unless of course he was named on his mother's passport - which he was when he was a youngster - and therefore would only have to renew his passport when he applied for his own.Weak effort, but you did take a shot at it.

Aah, but what if his MOTHER faked her birth certificate? I mean, the Bible Belt and half the South is essentially like another country anyway ...but what if her parents lied about her birth/citizenship as well?! What if Obama was born to TWO citizens of other countries? Hmm...maybe we can go back and interview the doctors/nurses who delivered her? Or dust off the files from an archive somewhere to pick her birth certificate apart for obvious forgeries?!And you still haven't proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you haven't faked your long-form birth certificate. You CLAIM to have one, but we haven't seen it. Maybe you could start by posting a copy as a .jpg in this thread...for all of us armchair experts to scrutinize?!

If it doesn't say "Bronco Billy" on it, how would we know it was really his?

 

[Mr. Retukes]

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

I have a short form birth certificate in my possession. It was issued in 2005. It was all that was required of me to obtain a passport.Do you and I live in different countries? Or just on different planets?

 

[jon_mx]

This whole natural born citizen thing is stupid anyhow. Let anyone who wants to be president run for it.

Maybe it is. But it is also in the Constitution. Not that that seems to mean much to anyone.

 

[Bronco Billy]

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

I have a short form birth certificate in my possession. It was issued in 2005. It was all that was required of me to obtain a passport.Do you and I live in different countries? Or just on different planets?

Does your list your race as African? European? Other?

 

[Jewell]

Rahm Emanuel questions Obama's birth certificate

 

[Bronco Billy]

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

I have a short form birth certificate in my possession. It was issued in 2005. It was all that was required of me to obtain a passport.Do you and I live in different countries? Or just on different planets?

I stand corrected:Submit Evidence of U.S. Citizenship

When applying for a U.S. passport in person, evidence of U.S. citizenship must be submitted with Form DS-11. All documentation submitted as citizenship evidence will be returned to you. These documents will be delivered with your newly issued U.S. passport or in a separate mailing.

Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following):

Previously issued, undamaged U.S. Passport

Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state*

Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth

Naturalization Certificate

Certificate of Citizenship

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

link

 

[datonn]

If it doesn't say "Bronco Billy" on it, how would we know it was really his?

Ooh...that's a VERY good point, Tim! Or what if it says Bronco HUSSEIN Billy? How do we REALLY know that Bronco Billy isn't a "secret Muslim," even though he'll swear up, down and sideways that he's not?! And that's another thing....Bronco BILLY. How do we even know "he" is a he? I mean, if the name on "his" birth certificate isn't "Bronco Billy," and we've been lied to in the FFA for all these months/years, how can we REALLY trust anything that comes out of "his" mouth?! Much less the fact that the supposed long-form birth certificate "he" reportedly has in "his" possession (but has not allowed us to see...suspicious?) was not forged?!

 

[bueno]

This whole natural born citizen thing is stupid anyhow. Let anyone who wants to be president run for it.

Just change the Constitution then -

 

[Mr. Retukes]

This whole natural born citizen thing is stupid anyhow. Let anyone who wants to be president run for it.

Just change the Constitution then -

Unnecessary. Just change the definition of "natural born". We've already been doing it for years.

 

[jon_mx]

This whole natural born citizen thing is stupid anyhow. Let anyone who wants to be president run for it.

Just change the Constitution then -

Unnecessary. Just change the definition of "natural born". We've already been doing it for years.

Except in this case it was never defined.

 

[Sam Quentin]

The issue really isn't if the state of Hawaii legally recognizes Obama as being born in Hawaii, I think it is quite apparent they do. But does that mean he is a natural born citizen in accordance with the requirements to become President of the United States? They are two different things. Hawaiian rules are very lax and there are documents which can be filed such that the state does legally acknowledge someone being born in their state without it being so. I have never questioned the word of Hawaiian state officials or the authenticity of any of the documents. My only question has always been what document was filed to establish Obama was born there. Oddly, there seems to be no one alive who can recount the blessed date. No baby pictures. No friends who recall. No doctors or nurses who recall. Nothing, outside of this unseen document which establishes this fact. There is nothing whacky about insisting on seeing the actual proof. As citizens it is in fact our civic duty to verify it as it is the duty of Congress when they certify the election. All we have are second hand accounts by state officials who are legally obligated not to disclose specific facts. The COLB which the campaign produced is probably 100% accurate on what it portrays as the official Hawaiian position.

Snopes.com, quoting a story in the Buffalo News dated Jan. 20, 2009 by Paula Voell, titled "Teacher from Kenmore Recalls Obama Was a Focused Student."

When Barack Hussein Obama places his hand on the Bible to take the oath of office as 44th president of the United States, Barbara Nelson of Kenmore will undoubtedly think back to the day he was born. It was Aug. 4, 1961, at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu.

"I may be the only person left who specifically remembers his birth. His parents are gone, his grandmother is gone, the obstetrician who delivered him is gone," said Nelson, referring to Dr. Rodney T. West, who died in February at the age of 98. Here's the story: Nelson was having dinner at the Outrigger Canoe Club on Waikiki Beach with Dr. West, the father of her college friend, Jo-Anne. Making conversation, Nelson turned to Dr. West and said: "So, tell me something interesting that happened this week," she recalls.

His response: "Well, today, Stanley had a baby. Now that's something to write home about."

The new mother was Stanley (later referred to by her middle name of Ann) Dunham, and the baby was Barack Hussein Obama.

"I penned the name on a napkin, and I did write home about it," said Nelson, knowing that her father, Stanley A. Czurles, director of the Art Education Department at Buffalo State College, would be interested in the "Stanley" connection.

She also remembers Dr. West mentioning that the baby's father was the first black student at the University of Hawaii and how taken he was by the baby's name.

"I remember Dr. West saying 'Barack Hussein Obama, now that's a musical name,'" said Nelson.

Ten years after that memorable birth announcement, Nelson would hear the Obama name again. This time, the father, now a Kenyan government official, was coming to speak at the Punahou School in Honolulu where Nelson was teaching and where his 10-year-old son was a newly enrolled fifth-grader.

http://www.pearlharb...=767&page=story

Then, after practicing on the Big Island of Hawaii for a year, he returned to Honolulu and joined the Obstetrics and Gynecological department of the Straub Clinic. In December of l956, after delivering at least 5,000 babies - and other things, he retired from the practice of medicine.

name any big sporting event and you will always find more people claiming to have been there than physically possible

Interesting. Especially since this bio says he didn't retire until 1975, when he was 65 years old. So your article says that he retired at the age of 44, after delivering over 5000 babies in 7 years. The bio I found in a 5 second google search had the 5K delivery stat as well, but over the course of his entire career, not just the first 7 years of his post-WW II career.

apparently he became a Medical Director -- which is mentioned in your own link

 

[Bronco Billy]

If it doesn't say "Bronco Billy" on it, how would we know it was really his?

Ooh...that's a VERY good point, Tim! Or what if it says Bronco HUSSEIN Billy? How do we REALLY know that Bronco Billy isn't a "secret Muslim," even though he'll swear up, down and sideways that he's not?! And that's another thing....Bronco BILLY. How do we even know "he" is a he? I mean, if the name on "his" birth certificate isn't "Bronco Billy," and we've been lied to in the FFA for all these months/years, how can we REALLY trust anything that comes out of "his" mouth?! Much less the fact that the supposed long-form birth certificate "he" reportedly has in "his" possession (but has not allowed us to see...suspicious?) was not forged?!

I'll show mine if he'll show his. Hell, I'll even pony up the $10 that Hawaii charges to get Barry's long form BC.

 

[bigbottom]

I have a long form birth certificate in my possession. I was required to submit it to the Federal government in order to obtain a passport. They would not accept other documentation.

Doesn't matter...since Barack Obama ALSO has a passport as well (long before he became POTUS)...so if he can "fake it" and get a passport to enter and exit the country, so could you.

Unless of course he was named on his mother's passport - which he was when he was a youngster - and therefore would only have to renew his passport when he applied for his own.Weak effort, but you did take a shot at it.

You referenced this earlier in the thread. I asked for clarification, as I was not familiar with the process, but I don't believe you ever responded:

I lean towards agreeing with 1), but based upon the evidence I feel a stronger case can be made that there actually is no documentation of his actual birth due to the circumstances under which he appears to have been born

So the Governor of Hawaii and Hawaii state officials are lying? And what is your theory on how he obtained a U.S. Passport with no documentation of his birth?

He traveled under his mother's passport when he was young. That's also well documented. As such, he had record of a passport with the Federal government and therefore could renew under his own name.

I'm unaware of this process. Can you explain how this works. A child without a passport can travel without a passport so long as he's traveling with an adult who has a passport, and then use that as the sole basis for obtaining a U.S. Passport later in life without having to provide a birth certificate. I'm not doubting you, it's just that I hadn't heard about this process. Seems like a big loophole. I could take an undocumented child and have him travel with me on my passport. Would he then be able to get his own U.S. Passport which operates as proof of U.S. Citizenhip?

Can you explain how this would work?