The Birther Conspiracy Thread (4 Viewers)

[CBusAlex]

Jon wants to make a pilgrimage to the exact spot Obama was born. Sam can't understand how anyone could not be fascinated by any document describing such a historic event as his birth.

It's like you guys have been calling him "the Messiah" for so long that you've actually started to beleive it.

 

[CBusAlex]

I'm curious as to the results of Lhucks last colon exam

I smell a ficticious thread a-brewin'...

 

[Sinn Fein]

Update? Are jon and Trump the only ones left?

add one more: tin hat/brock middlbrook/sam quentin

As for me, I stated many pages ago that I don't doubt that he was born in Hawaii.One thing that amazes me is the anti-birthers total lack of intellectual curiosity about the long form birth certificate documenting an historic birth. Their defensiveness and name-calling and protectiveness almost leads me to believe that they actually fear the release of such a document just a little bit -- which kind of makes them birthers of a different stripe.

I'm curious as to the results of Lhucks last colon exam, but there are laws in this country which make it so I cannot access that information to quell my curiosity.

Sure, but if Lhucks applied for a job that required him to be an #######, don't you think you would get those records?

 

[gollum]

Update? Are jon and Trump the only ones left?

add one more: tin hat/brock middlbrook/sam quentin

As for me, I stated many pages ago that I don't doubt that he was born in Hawaii.One thing that amazes me is the anti-birthers total lack of intellectual curiosity about the long form birth certificate documenting an historic birth. Their defensiveness and name-calling and protectiveness almost leads me to believe that they actually fear the release of such a document just a little bit -- which kind of makes them birthers of a different stripe.

I'm curious as to the results of Lhucks last colon exam, but there are laws in this country which make it so I cannot access that information to quell my curiosity.

Sure, but if Lhucks applied for a job that required him to be an #######, don't you think you would get those records?

I'd have no legal right to themi could ask

 

[Chunky Soup]

Update? Are jon and Trump the only ones left?

add one more: tin hat/brock middlbrook/sam quentin

As for me, I stated many pages ago that I don't doubt that he was born in Hawaii.

Cool, and I didn't doubt other presidents were born in the US. Interesting that this never happened until the TP chimed in.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Update? Are jon and Trump the only ones left?

add one more: tin hat/brock middlbrook/sam quentin

As for me, I stated many pages ago that I don't doubt that he was born in Hawaii.

Cool, and I didn't doubt other presidents were born in the US. Interesting that this never happened until the TP chimed in.

Actually it was the Hillary gang that chimed inWhen was the last time we had a President who did not have both parents as American citizens and whose American parent was too young or hadn't lived in the US long enough to confer citizenship?

 

[Joe Summer]

[QUOTE='Sam Quentin]Actually it was the Hillary gang that chimed in
[/QUOTE]Do you really think that it helps the Birthers' cause to keep claiming that Hillary's supporters were the "first" to question Obama's birth certificate? It's a bit like saying that Atheism is the one true belief because Billy Graham once questioned the existence of God.

 

[pantagrapher]

Actually it was the Hillary gang that chimed in

Do you really think that it helps the Birthers' cause to keep claiming that Hillary's supporters were the "first" to question Obama's birth certificate? It's a bit like saying that Atheism is the one true belief because Billy Graham once questioned the existence of God.

It's classic Birther cowardice. They won't own up to starting Birtherism and when challenged they claim they're not really birthers.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Update? Are jon and Trump the only ones left?

add one more: tin hat/brock middlbrook/sam quentin

As for me, I stated many pages ago that I don't doubt that he was born in Hawaii.

Cool, and I didn't doubt other presidents were born in the US. Interesting that this never happened until the TP chimed in.

Actually it was the Hillary gang that chimed in

When was the last time we had a President who did not have both parents as American citizens and whose American parent was too young or hadn't lived in the US long enough to confer citizenship?

The honest-to-goodness answer for 99.9% of Americans would be that they have absolutely no idea. Because until we elected a guy with dark skin and a funny-sounding name they hadn't bothered to think about it.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Mods, please move this to the Shark Pool where it belongs, then change the title to "Moving The Goalposts".

The birther movement really is an exercise in moving the goalposts. Here's an article on the evolution of the movement. It didn't start with the claim that Obama may not have been born in Hawaii.The movement was always focused on the idea that Obama is ineligible to be President because he's a damn foreigner.

But the original claim was that, although Obama was born in Hawaii, he did not qualify for citizenship since his father was a Kenyan and his mother was only 18. This was a misstatement of immigration law (he'd be a citizen anyway if he were born in Hawaii), but it was the original basis for the charge of non-citizenship.

Once it was recognized that the original theory was legally flawed, a new theory was proposed. He was originally a citizen, but he lost his citizenship when he moved to Indonesia or traveled to Pakistan.

When these theories were also proven to be legally flawed (citizenship is not forfeited by traveling to Pakistan, it turns out), that's when it was proposed that he was born in Kenya.

The funny thing is that the birther movement didn't gain any real traction until Obama refuted it by releasing his birth certificate (i.e., his certification of live birth). Once he released that, the birthers claimed that it was a forgery — and then the birther movement was off and running.

Some other tidbits from the article:

The website World Net Daily, for instance, has written that “Hawaii at the time of Obama’s birth allowed births that took place in foreign countries to be registered in Hawaii.” But that law was not enacted until 1982 which was 21 years after Obama's birth was registered. Further, such a birth certificate would show the actual foreign place of birth instead of listing – as Obama’s does — Honolulu.

Hawaii law prevents the long-form record from being photocopied or released to anyone — including Obama. Obama himself would only be permitted to inspect it – not copy it or post it online.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

 

[timschochet]

Hawaii law prevents the long-form record from being photocopied or released to anyone — including Obama. Obama himself would only be permitted to inspect it – not copy it or post it online

This should be the final debunking of the birther arguments- "Why doesn't he just release the long form?" He doesn't because he can't.

It should be the final debunking, but of course it won't be. As the article points out, Obama's biggest mistake was in trying to debunk the story in the first place, by releasing his COLB. That started the madness.

 

[Shtaym Syek]

Obama's biggest mistake was in trying to debunk the story in the first place, by releasing his COLB. That started the madness.

How in the world is this a mistake?

 

[Sam Quentin]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

but Fukino states that it can be released to persons with a tangible interest.

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[3][31] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record."

Which is it?

 

[matuski]

The website World Net Daily, for instance, has written that “Hawaii at the time of Obama’s birth allowed births that took place in foreign countries to be registered in Hawaii.” But that law was not enacted until 1982 which was 21 years after Obama's birth was registered. Further, such a birth certificate would show the actual foreign place of birth instead of listing – as Obama’s does — Honolulu.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53563_Page3.html#ixzz1Ket48Tj8

jon_mx is shut down in the midst of composing his thesis post on Hawaii' "lax laws."What the next angle here jon?

 

[Sam Quentin]

Mods, please move this to the Shark Pool where it belongs, then change the title to "Moving The Goalposts".

The birther movement really is an exercise in moving the goalposts. Here's an article on the evolution of the movement. It didn't start with the claim that Obama may not have been born in Hawaii.The movement was always focused on the idea that Obama is ineligible to be President because he's a damn foreigner.

But the original claim was that, although Obama was born in Hawaii, he did not qualify for citizenship since his father was a Kenyan and his mother was only 18. This was a misstatement of immigration law (he'd be a citizen anyway if he were born in Hawaii), but it was the original basis for the charge of non-citizenship.

Once it was recognized that the original theory was legally flawed, a new theory was proposed. He was originally a citizen, but he lost his citizenship when he moved to Indonesia or traveled to Pakistan.

When these theories were also proven to be legally flawed (citizenship is not forfeited by traveling to Pakistan, it turns out), that's when it was proposed that he was born in Kenya.

The funny thing is that the birther movement didn't gain any real traction until Obama refuted it by releasing his birth certificate (i.e., his certification of live birth). Once he released that, the birthers claimed that it was a forgery — and then the birther movement was off and running.

Some other tidbits from the article:

The website World Net Daily, for instance, has written that “Hawaii at the time of Obama’s birth allowed births that took place in foreign countries to be registered in Hawaii.” But that law was not enacted until 1982 which was 21 years after Obama's birth was registered. Further, such a birth certificate would show the actual foreign place of birth instead of listing – as Obama’s does — Honolulu.

Hawaii law prevents the long-form record from being photocopied or released to anyone — including Obama. Obama himself would only be permitted to inspect it – not copy it or post it online.

Actually there are still "birthers" fighting their fight on the dual citizenship and forfeited citizenship grounds. No goal posts were moved, just different factions with their pet eligibility theories

 

[timschochet]

Obama's biggest mistake was in trying to debunk the story in the first place, by releasing his COLB. That started the madness.

How in the world is this a mistake?

He didn't have to release it. Any journalist could have gone to Hawaii and obtained a copy of it, or confirmed that Obama was born there. Obama's people released the birth certificate on a website in order to debunk the theory that he wasn't born here. By doing so, it allowed a bunch of crackpots to attack it as a forgery, making the issue much more popular than before.That's the problem with conspiracy theories- there is no real way to fight them. My parents have a family friend, a Holocaust survivor named Mel Mermelstein, who became so incensed by Holocaust deniers that he kept trying to publicly denounce them. One of the better known deniers offered a $250,000 reward to anyone who could "prove" the Holocaust, and Mermelstein took him to court to collect the reward. Though Mermelstein won a judgment (which was never collected) it was the denier who really won, because his theories received more publicity than they ever did before. Today this guy makes a tidy fortune selling his stuff on the internet.

 

[matuski]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

but Fukino states that it can be released to persons with a tangible interest.

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[3][31] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record."

Which is it?

I love our resident birthers.

 

[gollum]

Hawaii law prevents the long-form record from being photocopied or released to anyone — including Obama. Obama himself would only be permitted to inspect it – not copy it or post it online

This should be the final debunking of the birther arguments- "Why doesn't he just release the long form?" He doesn't because he can't.

It should be the final debunking, but of course it won't be. As the article points out, Obama's biggest mistake was in trying to debunk the story in the first place, by releasing his COLB. That started the madness.

I think we'll let the experts decide what does and does not debunk this

Sam?

 

[gollum]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

but Fukino states that it can be released to persons with a tangible interest.

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[3][31] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record."

Which is it?

Thanks for not disappointing

 

[The_Man]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

but Fukino states that it can be released to persons with a tangible interest.

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[3][31] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record."

Which is it?

Whichever proves that Obama can't be President, duh.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Obama's biggest mistake was in trying to debunk the story in the first place, by releasing his COLB. That started the madness.

How in the world is this a mistake?

He didn't have to release it. Any journalist could have gone to Hawaii and obtained a copy of it, or confirmed that Obama was born there. Obama's people released the birth certificate on a website in order to debunk the theory that he wasn't born here. By doing so, it allowed a bunch of crackpots to attack it as a forgery, making the issue much more popular than before.

What?

has this thread made you crazy?

 

[Shtaym Syek]

Obama's biggest mistake was in trying to debunk the story in the first place, by releasing his COLB. That started the madness.

How in the world is this a mistake?

He didn't have to release it. Any journalist could have gone to Hawaii and obtained a copy of it, or confirmed that Obama was born there. Obama's people released the birth certificate on a website in order to debunk the theory that he wasn't born here. By doing so, it allowed a bunch of crackpots to attack it as a forgery, making the issue much more popular than before.That's the problem with conspiracy theories- there is no real way to fight them. My parents have a family friend, a Holocaust survivor named Mel Mermelstein, who became so incensed by Holocaust deniers that he kept trying to publicly denounce them. One of the better known deniers offered a $250,000 reward to anyone who could "prove" the Holocaust, and Mermelstein took him to court to collect the reward. Though Mermelstein won a judgment (which was never collected) it was the denier who really won, because his theories received more publicity than they ever did before. Today this guy makes a tidy fortune selling his stuff on the internet.

Thanks for the essay.I'm asking why it was a mistake. Having these people around is gold for Obama.

 

[gollum]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

but Fukino states that it can be released to persons with a tangible interest.

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[3][31] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record."

Which is it?

for the record, not that you care

anyone with a tangible interest can request it, as obama did, and they will be given exactly what he was given. These two statements are not incompatible in the least.

 

[Sam Quentin]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

but Fukino states that it can be released to persons with a tangible interest.

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[3][31] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record."

Which is it?

Thanks for not disappointing

ditto with your moronic retort

 

[bigbottom]

Update? Are jon and Trump the only ones left?

add one more: tin hat/brock middlbrook/sam quentin

As for me, I stated many pages ago that I don't doubt that he was born in Hawaii.One thing that amazes me is the anti-birthers total lack of intellectual curiosity about the long form birth certificate documenting an historic birth. Their defensiveness and name-calling and protectiveness almost leads me to believe that they actually fear the release of such a document just a little bit -- which kind of makes them birthers of a different stripe.

And I stated pages ago that it could very well be that he's hiding something.

This really should be a no-brainer, and it's difficult to figure out why people defend the way he is handling this.

No doubt, he has a reason for not caving to the demands. Perhaps it's one of the following:1) There is something on the birth certificate that he'd rather not disclose publicly (perhaps a reference to being muslim, maybe the age of his morther, who knows)2) Caving to loons with an agenda will only encourage more attacks from the bat#### crazy contingent.3) Having the bat#### crazy loons continue to spout off has a negative effect on the legitimacy of genuine policy opponents.These may be good reasons, or horrible reasons. But regardless of what the reason is, it doesn't take anything away from the fact that the birthers are still bat#### crazy.

 

[gollum]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

but Fukino states that it can be released to persons with a tangible interest.

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[3][31] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record."

Which is it?

Thanks for not disappointing

ditto with your moronic retort

i am wounded by your rapier wit

 

[Sam Quentin]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

but Fukino states that it can be released to persons with a tangible interest.

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[3][31] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record."

Which is it?

for the record, not that you care

anyone with a tangible interest can request it, as obama did, and they will be given exactly what he was given. These two statements are not incompatible in the least.

wow, I must be imagining thesehttp://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1003&bih=592&q=hawaii+long+form+birth+certificate&gbv=2&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=hawaii+long+

Why post something that can be reuted with a five second Google search

 

[Shtaym Syek]

Some of those pictures are beyond awesome.

 

[matuski]

More on that last part:

...Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

...

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" even to the individual whose birth it records. "It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

but Fukino states that it can be released to persons with a tangible interest.

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[3][31] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record."

Which is it?

for the record, not that you care

anyone with a tangible interest can request it, as obama did, and they will be given exactly what he was given. These two statements are not incompatible in the least.

wow, I must be imagining thesehttp://www.google.co...oq=hawaii+long+

Why post something that can be reuted with a five second Google search

I'm not sure you are accomplishing what you think you are... not that I have any idea what it is you are hoping to accomplish with this?

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Sam Quentin is moving back up the Power Rankings, but we're going to have get a ruling on birther postings by aliai. TinHat has quite an oeuvre in this thread, we'll probably have to merge their collective efforts.

Currently:

1. jon_mx (↓)

2. Sam Quentin/TinHat (↑)

3. Brock Middlebrook (↔)

4. Bronco Billy (↔)

 

[Jewell]

With friends like these who needs enemies?

(short video)

 

[Shtaym Syek]

Bronco Billy is fourth!?

I question the legitimacy of these rankings.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Bronco Billy is fourth!?I question the legitimacy of these rankings.

Do not question my methods.

 

[Joe Summer]

wow, I must be imagining thesehttp://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1003&bih=592&q=hawaii+long+form+birth+certificate&gbv=2&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=hawaii+long+Why post something that can be reuted with a five second Google search

You do realize that Google doesn't always show what you put in the search box, right?http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1272&bih=812&gbv=2&site=search&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=all+these+hawaii+long+form+birth+certificates+are+fakes+and+Google+proves+it&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

 

[gollum]

yeah!

http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=YQU&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&biw=1272&bih=795&site=search&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=monkeys+smoking+cigars&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

 

[Sam Quentin]

Sam Quentin is moving back up the Power Rankings, but we're going to have get a ruling on birther postings by aliai. TinHat has quite an oeuvre in this thread, we'll probably have to merge their collective efforts.

Currently:

1. jon_mx (↓)

2. Sam Quentin/TinHat (↑)

3. Brock Middlebrook (↔)

4. Bronco Billy (↔)

look at how prickly the anti-birthers get when one points out misstatements and/or inconsistencies in the staements of the anti-birthers. They act like secret birthers grasping at anything.

I am confident that any records officially released by Hawaii would confirm his natural borm citizenship, but many here seem to act a bit worried about that, as if they are not as confident.

 

[Shtaym Syek]

Sam Quentin is moving back up the Power Rankings, but we're going to have get a ruling on birther postings by aliai. TinHat has quite an oeuvre in this thread, we'll probably have to merge their collective efforts.

Currently:

1. jon_mx (↓)

2. Sam Quentin/TinHat (↑)

3. Brock Middlebrook (↔)

4. Bronco Billy (↔)

look at how prickly the anti-birthers get when one points out misstatements and/or inconsistencies in the staements of the anti-birthers. They act like secret birthers grasping at anything.

I am confident that any records officially released by Hawaii would confirm his natural borm citizenship, but many here seem to act a bit worried about that, as if they are not as confident.

 

[gollum]

Sam Quentin is moving back up the Power Rankings, but we're going to have get a ruling on birther postings by aliai. TinHat has quite an oeuvre in this thread, we'll probably have to merge their collective efforts.

Currently:

1. jon_mx (↓)

2. Sam Quentin/TinHat (↑)

3. Brock Middlebrook (↔)

4. Bronco Billy (↔)

look at how prickly the anti-birthers get when one points out misstatements and/or inconsistencies in the staements of the anti-birthers. They act like secret birthers grasping at anything.

I am confident that any records officially released by Hawaii would confirm his natural borm citizenship, but many here seem to act a bit worried about that, as if they are not as confident.

I am not a birther, but i demand proof anyway!more proof i mean!

 

[urbanhack]

Sam Quentin is moving back up the Power Rankings, but we're going to have get a ruling on birther postings by aliai. TinHat has quite an oeuvre in this thread, we'll probably have to merge their collective efforts.

Currently:

1. jon_mx (↓)

2. Sam Quentin/TinHat (↑)

3. Brock Middlebrook (↔)

4. Bronco Billy (↔)

look at how prickly the anti-birthers get when one points out misstatements and/or inconsistencies in the staements of the anti-birthers. They act like secret birthers grasping at anything.

I am confident that any records officially released by Hawaii would confirm his natural borm citizenship, but many here seem to act a bit worried about that, as if they are not as confident.

please keep posting....

 

[CBusAlex]

Which is it?

Hawaii Revised Statute §338-18

Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record.

 

[The_Man]

Sam Quentin is moving back up the Power Rankings, but we're going to have get a ruling on birther postings by aliai. TinHat has quite an oeuvre in this thread, we'll probably have to merge their collective efforts.

Currently:

1. jon_mx (↓)

2. Sam Quentin/TinHat (↑)

3. Brock Middlebrook (↔)

4. Bronco Billy (↔)

look at how prickly the anti-birthers get when one points out misstatements and/or inconsistencies in the staements of the anti-birthers. They act like secret birthers grasping at anything.

I am confident that any records officially released by Hawaii would confirm his natural borm citizenship, but many here seem to act a bit worried about that, as if they are not as confident.

Very worried. I'm afraid that they'll ultimately find Obama isn't a natural born citizen and they'll vacate his Presidency like Calipari's Final Fours, so that none of his accomplishments will actually count.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Which is it?

Hawaii Revised Statute §338-18

Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record.

It's a bit confusing upon initial reading because section (b) says that the department won't provide a certified copy unless the applicant has a direct and tangible interest. That suggests that it will provide a certified copy to somebody who does have a direct and tangible interest — in this case, to Obama.But the question is: certified copy of what? Not of the original long-form record. Quoting section (b) again, it's a certified copy "of any such record or part thereof." Specifically, with respect to birth records, it's the "part thereof" that constitutes the info provided on the certification of live birth.

If you go to the page explaining how to apply for a copy, there's a link to the application. There aren't two separate applications, one for the long form and one for the short form. There's just one application, and what you get in return when you send it in is the certification of live birth. That's what Obama's campaign posted on the innernets.

 

[gollum]

Which is it?

Hawaii Revised Statute §338-18

Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record.

It's a bit confusing upon initial reading because section (b) says that the department won't provide a certified copy unless the applicant has a direct and tangible interest. That suggests that it will provide a certified copy to somebody who has a direct and tangible interest — in this case, to Obama.But the question is: certified copy of what? Not of the original long-form record. Quoting section (b) again, it's a certified copy "of any such record or part thereof." Specifically, it's the "part thereof" that constitutes the info provided on the certification of live birth.

If you go to the page explaining how to apply for a copy, there's a link to the application. There aren't two separate applications, one for the long form and one for the short form. There's just one application, and what you get in return when you send it in is the certification of live birth.

b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.bbbbbutthis does not explain the images of people on google holding what clearly are long form certs

nor does it explain who is giving cigars to monkeys

i reject your reality, and replace it with one of my own

 

[Sam Quentin]

Which is it?

Hawaii Revised Statute §338-18

Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record.

thank you

 

[timschochet]

Sam Quentin is moving back up the Power Rankings, but we're going to have get a ruling on birther postings by aliai. TinHat has quite an oeuvre in this thread, we'll probably have to merge their collective efforts.

Currently:

1. jon_mx (↓)

2. Sam Quentin/TinHat (↑)

3. Brock Middlebrook (↔)

4. Bronco Billy (↔)

look at how prickly the anti-birthers get when one points out misstatements and/or inconsistencies in the staements of the anti-birthers. They act like secret birthers grasping at anything.

I am confident that any records officially released by Hawaii would confirm his natural borm citizenship, but many here seem to act a bit worried about that, as if they are not as confident.

Very worried. I'm afraid that they'll ultimately find Obama isn't a natural born citizen and they'll vacate his Presidency like Calipari's Final Fours, so that none of his accomplishments will actually count.

That would be so awesome. Can we put the federal government on probation too?

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Sam Quentin is moving back up the Power Rankings, but we're going to have get a ruling on birther postings by aliai. TinHat has quite an oeuvre in this thread, we'll probably have to merge their collective efforts.

Currently:

1. jon_mx (↓)

2. Sam Quentin/TinHat (↑)

3. Brock Middlebrook (↔)

4. Bronco Billy (↔)

look at how prickly the anti-birthers get when one points out misstatements and/or inconsistencies in the staements of the anti-birthers. They act like secret birthers grasping at anything.

I am confident that any records officially released by Hawaii would confirm his natural borm citizenship, but many here seem to act a bit worried about that, as if they are not as confident.

Anti-birthers.

 

[mad sweeney]

Sam Quentin is moving back up the Power Rankings, but we're going to have get a ruling on birther postings by aliai. TinHat has quite an oeuvre in this thread, we'll probably have to merge their collective efforts.

Currently:

1. jon_mx (↓)

2. Sam Quentin/TinHat (↑)

3. Brock Middlebrook (↔)

4. Bronco Billy (↔)

look at how prickly the anti-birthers get when one points out misstatements and/or inconsistencies in the staements of the anti-birthers. They act like secret birthers grasping at anything.

I am confident that any records officially released by Hawaii would confirm his natural borm citizenship, but many here seem to act a bit worried about that, as if they are not as confident.

 

[TinHat]

i reject your reality, and replace it with one of my own

apparently you doIn spite of photographs, documents and statutes, you live in your own reality, which makes you loonier than Jon_mxMy crazy rankings:1. Gollum2. Jon_mx3. Mad Sweeneyall clearly believe things in spite of more than adequate evidence and/or logic that would disuade most

 

[mad sweeney]

i reject your reality, and replace it with one of my own

apparently you doIn spite of photographs, documents and statutes, you live in your own reality, which makes you loonier than Jon_mxMy crazy rankings:1. Gollum2. Jon_mx3. Mad Sweeneyall clearly believe things in spite of more than adequate evidence and/or logic that would disuade most

Evidence yes, logic no. In fact, my position is based on the fact that it's the complete absence of any sort of logic whatsoever to believe otherwise. Not even in the same league with wrong_mx.