The Case Against Global-Warming Skepticism (1 Viewer)

[Chaos Commish]

Some articles I did not read popped up on my google news about Obama specifically targeting methane. I guess we need to mix some Gasx in cattle feed.

 

[culdeus]

Some articles I did not read popped up on my google news about Obama specifically targeting methane. I guess we need to mix some Gasx in cattle feed.

Stop feeding cows and pigs corn and you could buy 20 years of time for the CO2 problem to solve itself.

 

[jonessed]

The earth has cooled over the last 15 years, but not if you use 2011 as the endpoint.

I will leave it to the scientists to put that into context and figure out why they missed it, but there is something incredibly ironic about using 2011 data to admonish people about cherry-picking data periods.

Link? Shred of evidence? Anything at all to substantiate a claim that is just completely factually wrong?

1998 was the hottest year on record and we have yet to exceed it.

 

[The_Man]

The earth has cooled over the last 15 years, but not if you use 2011 as the endpoint.

I will leave it to the scientists to put that into context and figure out why they missed it, but there is something incredibly ironic about using 2011 data to admonish people about cherry-picking data periods.

Link? Shred of evidence? Anything at all to substantiate a claim that is just completely factually wrong?

1998 was the hottest year on record and we have yet to exceed it.

Yeah, you just saying things that are wrong doesn't really count as evidence.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on RecordJanuary 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

 

[jonessed]

Nobody is really looking at methane, and that really could be the driver here that we could fix. Quickly.

Wasn't the UK working on a cow fart pill?

 

[DrJ]

15 years ago the projections said we'd be rioting for food today or something.

 

[Rove!]

Some articles I did not read popped up on my google news about Obama specifically targeting methane. I guess we need to mix some Gasx in cattle feed.

Stop feeding cows and pigs corn and you could buy 20 years of time for the CO2 problem to solve itself.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/03/28/fact-sheet-climate-action-plan-strategy-cut-methane-emissions

Agriculture: In June, in partnership with the dairy industry, the USDA, EPA and DOE will jointly release a “Biogas Roadmap” outlining voluntary strategies to accelerate adoption of methane digesters and other cost-effective technologies to reduce U.S. dairy sector greenhouse gas emissions by 25 percent by 2020.

 

[DrJ]

Oh no, it's 2014, we're way past it being an irreversible trend so you might as well throw your hands up and enjoy the destruction.

 

[DrJ]

Amazing that people cant see and believe whats going on all around them...boggles the mind

Of all the denialist movements, this one is the most widespread. It didn't used to be that way. A decade ago, most Republicans accepted global warming; they just opposed government based solutions as ineffective and bad for the economy. Today, largely as a result of talk radio and a bunch of pseudo scientists throwing out smokescreens, the majority of Reublicans deny the science.

A strange thing happened between then and now. The warming stopped.

 

[Rove!]

generally OT, but I found this fascinating

Fraley also noted that dairy farmers have made “tremendous strides” in genetic improvements and production efficiency.

“When we look at milk production and cow numbers since World War II, the cow of today is producing 4.5 times more milk than her midcentury counterpart,” Fraley said. “Nationally, we have one-third fewer cows. We continue to do more with less.”

http://farmweeknow.com/story-biogas-roadmap-may-reduce-greenhouse-gas-emissions-1-110711

 

[jonessed]

The earth has cooled over the last 15 years, but not if you use 2011 as the endpoint.

I will leave it to the scientists to put that into context and figure out why they missed it, but there is something incredibly ironic about using 2011 data to admonish people about cherry-picking data periods.

Link? Shred of evidence? Anything at all to substantiate a claim that is just completely factually wrong?

1998 was the hottest year on record and we have yet to exceed it.

Yeah, you just saying things that are wrong doesn't really count as evidence.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on RecordJanuary 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

http://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/why-did-earth%E2%80%99s-surface-temperature-stop-rising-past-decade

The trend has been flat since the late 90's.

I imagine scientists are rebuilding their models under the new theory that the excess energy is being absorbed by the oceans.

 

[timschochet]

Wait/ there can't be 2 sets of facts here. Either 1998 was the warmest year on record or it wasn't. Jonessed, you wrote that 1998 was the warmest year on record; that's why you and jon and Dr. J all claim that global warming has stopped for 15 years. The Man just presented evidence to the contrary, that in fact 2005 and 2010 are tied for the warmest years on record. So are you willing now to retract your claim?

 

[jonessed]

Wait/ there can't be 2 sets of facts here. Either 1998 was the warmest year on record or it wasn't. Jonessed, you wrote that 1998 was the warmest year on record; that's why you and jon and Dr. J all claim that global warming has stopped for 15 years. The Man just presented evidence to the contrary, that in fact 2005 and 2010 are tied for the warmest years on record. So are you willing now to retract your claim?

You are over-generalizing again. You do that quite a lot.

1998 was hotter than 2011, 2012, or 2013, and very close to 2005 and 2010, but I believe The Man is right and they revised the 1998 temperatures down in 2012. It's now the third hottest year behind 2005 and 2010.

It doesn't affect the trend though. The trend from 1998 to today is still flat. Even the NOAA acknowledges it. That's why scientists are trying to figure out where all of the energy went and how they should change the models.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The earth has cooled over the last 15 years, but not if you use 2011 as the endpoint.

I will leave it to the scientists to put that into context and figure out why they missed it, but there is something incredibly ironic about using 2011 data to admonish people about cherry-picking data periods.

Link? Shred of evidence? Anything at all to substantiate a claim that is just completely factually wrong?

1998 was the hottest year on record and we have yet to exceed it.

Yeah, you just saying things that are wrong doesn't really count as evidence.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on RecordJanuary 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

http://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/why-did-earth%E2%80%99s-surface-temperature-stop-rising-past-decade

The trend has been flat since the late 90's.

I imagine scientists are rebuilding their models under the new theory that the excess energy is being absorbed by the oceans.

Do you have a link to a source that isn't as biased as that one?

 

[pantagrapher]

Wait/ there can't be 2 sets of facts here. Either 1998 was the warmest year on record or it wasn't. Jonessed, you wrote that 1998 was the warmest year on record; that's why you and jon and Dr. J all claim that global warming has stopped for 15 years. The Man just presented evidence to the contrary, that in fact 2005 and 2010 are tied for the warmest years on record. So are you willing now to retract your claim?

You are over-generalizing again. You do that quite a lot.

1998 was hotter than 2011, 2012, or 2013, and very close to 2005 and 2010, but I believe The Man is right and they revised 1998 down in 2012.

It doesn't really affect the trend though. The trend from 1998 to today is still flat. Even the NOAA acknowledges it. That's why scientists are trying to figure out where all of the energy went and how they should change the models.

Jesus, you make it sound like these are "scientists" using "data" to refine "theories."

 

[jonessed]

Wait/ there can't be 2 sets of facts here. Either 1998 was the warmest year on record or it wasn't. Jonessed, you wrote that 1998 was the warmest year on record; that's why you and jon and Dr. J all claim that global warming has stopped for 15 years. The Man just presented evidence to the contrary, that in fact 2005 and 2010 are tied for the warmest years on record. So are you willing now to retract your claim?

You are over-generalizing again. You do that quite a lot.

1998 was hotter than 2011, 2012, or 2013, and very close to 2005 and 2010, but I believe The Man is right and they revised 1998 down in 2012.

It doesn't really affect the trend though. The trend from 1998 to today is still flat. Even the NOAA acknowledges it. That's why scientists are trying to figure out where all of the energy went and how they should change the models.

Jesus, you make it sound like these are "scientists" using "data" to refine "theories."

Yeah, I believe that's how this is generally done.

 

[timschochet]

Wait/ there can't be 2 sets of facts here. Either 1998 was the warmest year on record or it wasn't. Jonessed, you wrote that 1998 was the warmest year on record; that's why you and jon and Dr. J all claim that global warming has stopped for 15 years. The Man just presented evidence to the contrary, that in fact 2005 and 2010 are tied for the warmest years on record. So are you willing now to retract your claim?

You are over-generalizing again. You do that quite a lot.

1998 was hotter than 2011, 2012, or 2013, and very close to 2005 and 2010, but I believe The Man is right and they revised the 1998 temperatures down in 2012. It's now the third hottest year behind 2005 and 2010.

It doesn't affect the trend though. The trend from 1998 to today is still flat. Even the NOAA acknowledges it. That's why scientists are trying to figure out where all of the energy went and how they should change the models.

I love how I am the one over-generalizing when YOU were the one who stated, just a few moments ago, "1998 was the hottest year on record.:" I'm glad to see that you concede the point now that you were wrong.

I also think that it's really quite amusing for you to state that 2005 and 2010 "don't affect the trend"- so suddenly 15 years is a trend now, and this from the same people who have been arguing all along that measuring warming since 1880 proves nothing? 130 years is far too short a trend, but 15 years is already a trend?

Let me make this very simple, without "over-generalizing"- if 2005 and 2010 were hotter than 1998, there is NO trend that dispels global warming. It is factually UNTRUE that global warming has not occurred over the last 15 years. You, jon mx, and Dr. J., among many others, simply got this wrong. Admit it and let's move on.

 

[jonessed]

Wait/ there can't be 2 sets of facts here. Either 1998 was the warmest year on record or it wasn't. Jonessed, you wrote that 1998 was the warmest year on record; that's why you and jon and Dr. J all claim that global warming has stopped for 15 years. The Man just presented evidence to the contrary, that in fact 2005 and 2010 are tied for the warmest years on record. So are you willing now to retract your claim?

You are over-generalizing again. You do that quite a lot.

1998 was hotter than 2011, 2012, or 2013, and very close to 2005 and 2010, but I believe The Man is right and they revised the 1998 temperatures down in 2012. It's now the third hottest year behind 2005 and 2010.

It doesn't affect the trend though. The trend from 1998 to today is still flat. Even the NOAA acknowledges it. That's why scientists are trying to figure out where all of the energy went and how they should change the models.

I love how I am the one over-generalizing when YOU were the one who stated, just a few moments ago, "1998 was the hottest year on record.:" I'm glad to see that you concede the point now that you were wrong.

I also think that it's really quite amusing for you to state that 2005 and 2010 "don't affect the trend"- so suddenly 15 years is a trend now, and this from the same people who have been arguing all along that measuring warming since 1880 proves nothing? 130 years is far too short a trend, but 15 years is already a trend?

Let me make this very simple, without "over-generalizing"- if 2005 and 2010 were hotter than 1998, there is NO trend that dispels global warming. It is factually UNTRUE that global warming has not occurred over the last 15 years. You, jon mx, and Dr. J., among many others, simply got this wrong. Admit it and let's move on.

I used 15 years because that's what The_Man used.

I don't know what jon and Dr. J believe, but I suspect we are all a bit different. You have a habit of lumping people together so there is no grey area and you can more easily put them down. What I am saying has nothing to do with what anybody else has stated in this thread. My thoughts on this are my own. I did not conspire with others to present a united front of ideas.

1998 was the hottest year on record until 2012 when they changed it. The changes were minor and had little to no impact on the trend. If you don't understand how this could be I suggest you read the NOAA article I linked.

I'm not trying to dispel Global Warming. I believe Global Warming is still happening. That doesn't mean we should distort the facts. The warming trend since the late '90s has been flat, that has largely gone against what the models predicted, and scientist are currently trying to understand why.

 

[DrJ]

Wait/ there can't be 2 sets of facts here. Either 1998 was the warmest year on record or it wasn't. Jonessed, you wrote that 1998 was the warmest year on record; that's why you and jon and Dr. J all claim that global warming has stopped for 15 years. The Man just presented evidence to the contrary, that in fact 2005 and 2010 are tied for the warmest years on record. So are you willing now to retract your claim?

You are over-generalizing again. You do that quite a lot.

1998 was hotter than 2011, 2012, or 2013, and very close to 2005 and 2010, but I believe The Man is right and they revised the 1998 temperatures down in 2012. It's now the third hottest year behind 2005 and 2010.

It doesn't affect the trend though. The trend from 1998 to today is still flat. Even the NOAA acknowledges it. That's why scientists are trying to figure out where all of the energy went and how they should change the models.

I love how I am the one over-generalizing when YOU were the one who stated, just a few moments ago, "1998 was the hottest year on record.:" I'm glad to see that you concede the point now that you were wrong.

I also think that it's really quite amusing for you to state that 2005 and 2010 "don't affect the trend"- so suddenly 15 years is a trend now, and this from the same people who have been arguing all along that measuring warming since 1880 proves nothing? 130 years is far too short a trend, but 15 years is already a trend?

Let me make this very simple, without "over-generalizing"- if 2005 and 2010 were hotter than 1998, there is NO trend that dispels global warming. It is factually UNTRUE that global warming has not occurred over the last 15 years. You, jon mx, and Dr. J., among many others, simply got this wrong. Admit it and let's move on.

The bottom line is that the temperature trend has flat lined while atmospheric CO2 has continued to rise. Whether 2005 or 2010 or 1998 is ever so slightly warmer than the other isn't all that relevant, the models suggested that as atmospheric CO2 rose that the temperature would rise in concert as well. And it's not - you have a statistically insignificant difference that bears no correlation to the CO2 levels. At best, after you adjust data and things.

 

[The_Man]

1998 was the hottest year on record until 2012 when they changed it.

What are you talking about?

In January 2006, it was announced that 2005 was the warmest year on record. In January 2011, it was announced that 2010 had tied 2005. Has it become so much an article of faith that no global warming has occurred since 1998 (which, again, is empirically untrue) that facts contradicting that belief just don't exist?

2005 Warmest Year on Record Data Indicates

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 1/24/2006 3:58:39 PM ET

A surprising Arctic warm spell is responsible for a 2005 that was likely the warmest year since instrument recordings began in the late 1800s, a leading researcher said Tuesday in describing a new federal analysis.

James Hansen, director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said the analysis had to estimate temperatures in the Arctic from nearby weather stations because no direct data were available.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record

January 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

 

[jonessed]

1998 was the hottest year on record until 2012 when they changed it.

What are you talking about?

In January 2006, it was announced that 2005 was the warmest year on record. In January 2011, it was announced that 2010 had tied 2005. Has it become so much an article of faith that no global warming has occurred since 1998 (which, again, is empirically untrue) that facts contradicting that belief just don't exist?

2005 Warmest Year on Record Data Indicates

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 1/24/2006 3:58:39 PM ET

A surprising Arctic warm spell is responsible for a 2005 that was likely the warmest year since instrument recordings began in the late 1800s, a leading researcher said Tuesday in describing a new federal analysis.

James Hansen, director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said the analysis had to estimate temperatures in the Arctic from nearby weather stations because no direct data were available.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record

January 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

At one point 1934 was the hottest on record and I still think HadCRUT3 has 1998 as the hottest (could be 2010, but it's not 2005). As the science and the readings get better they re-calculate and interpolate past years accordingly. I'm not going to argue about what year was hottest. If it's agreed that it's 2005 and 2010 that's what it is. It doesn't matter. The actual differences between 1998, 2005, and 2010 are miniscule. The trend is still flat from 1998 to today despite rapidly rising CO2. I've already posted NOAA articles that point this out.

It's not hard to see. Just look at a chart of the raw estimates from 1998 to today. You can see it in half the articles linked in here.

Edit:

Here's a decent article that explains the different ways the data is being interpreted and why they are both correct:

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2013/aug/25/steve-goreham/global-warming-skeptic-says-global-surface-tempera/

 

[timschochet]

1998 was the hottest year on record until 2012 when they changed it.

What are you talking about?

In January 2006, it was announced that 2005 was the warmest year on record. In January 2011, it was announced that 2010 had tied 2005. Has it become so much an article of faith that no global warming has occurred since 1998 (which, again, is empirically untrue) that facts contradicting that belief just don't exist?

2005 Warmest Year on Record Data Indicates

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 1/24/2006 3:58:39 PM ET

A surprising Arctic warm spell is responsible for a 2005 that was likely the warmest year since instrument recordings began in the late 1800s, a leading researcher said Tuesday in describing a new federal analysis.

James Hansen, director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said the analysis had to estimate temperatures in the Arctic from nearby weather stations because no direct data were available.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record

January 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

BUT IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE TREND!! AND THE TEMPERATURE TREND HAS FLATLINED!!! AND THE SCIENTISTS HAVE NO EXPLANATION!!!!

 

[DrJ]

1998 was the hottest year on record until 2012 when they changed it.

What are you talking about?

In January 2006, it was announced that 2005 was the warmest year on record. In January 2011, it was announced that 2010 had tied 2005. Has it become so much an article of faith that no global warming has occurred since 1998 (which, again, is empirically untrue) that facts contradicting that belief just don't exist?

2005 Warmest Year on Record Data Indicates

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 1/24/2006 3:58:39 PM ET

A surprising Arctic warm spell is responsible for a 2005 that was likely the warmest year since instrument recordings began in the late 1800s, a leading researcher said Tuesday in describing a new federal analysis.

James Hansen, director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said the analysis had to estimate temperatures in the Arctic from nearby weather stations because no direct data were available.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record

January 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

BUT IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE TREND!! AND THE TEMPERATURE TREND HAS FLATLINED!!! AND THE SCIENTISTS HAVE NO EXPLANATION!!!!

This is actually the smartest thing you've said all week.

 

[Dr Oadi]

1998 was the hottest year on record until 2012 when they changed it.

What are you talking about?

In January 2006, it was announced that 2005 was the warmest year on record. In January 2011, it was announced that 2010 had tied 2005. Has it become so much an article of faith that no global warming has occurred since 1998 (which, again, is empirically untrue) that facts contradicting that belief just don't exist?

2005 Warmest Year on Record Data Indicates

msnbc.com staff and news service reports

updated 1/24/2006 3:58:39 PM ET

A surprising Arctic warm spell is responsible for a 2005 that was likely the warmest year since instrument recordings began in the late 1800s, a leading researcher said Tuesday in describing a new federal analysis.

James Hansen, director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said the analysis had to estimate temperatures in the Arctic from nearby weather stations because no direct data were available.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record

January 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

BUT IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE TREND!! AND THE TEMPERATURE TREND HAS FLATLINED!!! AND THE SCIENTISTS HAVE NO EXPLANATION!!!!

This is actually the smartest thing you've said all week.

He should use caps and exclamation points more often.

 

[DrJ]

1998 was the hottest year on record until 2012 when they changed it.

What are you talking about?

In January 2006, it was announced that 2005 was the warmest year on record. In January 2011, it was announced that 2010 had tied 2005. Has it become so much an article of faith that no global warming has occurred since 1998 (which, again, is empirically untrue) that facts contradicting that belief just don't exist?

2005 Warmest Year on Record Data Indicates

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 1/24/2006 3:58:39 PM ET

A surprising Arctic warm spell is responsible for a 2005 that was likely the warmest year since instrument recordings began in the late 1800s, a leading researcher said Tuesday in describing a new federal analysis.

James Hansen, director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said the analysis had to estimate temperatures in the Arctic from nearby weather stations because no direct data were available.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record

January 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

At one point 1934 was the hottest on record and I still think HadCRUT3 has 1998 as the hottest (could be 2010, but it's not 2005). As the science and the readings get better they re-calculate and interpolate past years accordingly. I'm not going to argue about what year was hottest. If it's agreed that it's 2005 and 2010 that's what it is. It doesn't matter. The actual differences between 1998, 2005, and 2010 are miniscule. The trend is still flat from 1998 to today despite rapidly rising CO2. I've already posted NOAA articles that point this out.

It's not hard to see. Just look at a chart of the raw estimates from 1998 to today. You can see it in half the articles linked in here.

Edit:

Here's a decent article that explains the different ways the data is being interpreted and why they are both correct:

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2013/aug/25/steve-goreham/global-warming-skeptic-says-global-surface-tempera/

I like the link at the bottom.

Temperature increases that were once predicted

 

[Koya]

15 years ago the projections said we'd be rioting for food today or something.

It remember 15 years ago. No, they didn't.

(Ps if you find some random work of fiction that allegedly proves you are right, well need some real evidence, not wordplay and misdirection.

 

[Koya]

1998 was the hottest year on record until 2012 when they changed it.

What are you talking about?

In January 2006, it was announced that 2005 was the warmest year on record. In January 2011, it was announced that 2010 had tied 2005. Has it become so much an article of faith that no global warming has occurred since 1998 (which, again, is empirically untrue) that facts contradicting that belief just don't exist?

2005 Warmest Year on Record Data Indicates

msnbc.com staff and news service reports

updated 1/24/2006 3:58:39 PM ET

A surprising Arctic warm spell is responsible for a 2005 that was likely the warmest year since instrument recordings began in the late 1800s, a leading researcher said Tuesday in describing a new federal analysis.

James Hansen, director of NASAs Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said the analysis had to estimate temperatures in the Arctic from nearby weather stations because no direct data were available.

From the NOAA:

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record

January 12, 2011

According to NOAA scientists, 2010 tied with 2005 as the warmest year of the global surface temperature record, beginning in 1880. This was the 34th consecutive year with global temperatures above the 20th century average.

At one point 1934 was the hottest on record and I still think HadCRUT3 has 1998 as the hottest (could be 2010, but it's not 2005). As the science and the readings get better they re-calculate and interpolate past years accordingly. I'm not going to argue about what year was hottest. If it's agreed that it's 2005 and 2010 that's what it is. It doesn't matter. The actual differences between 1998, 2005, and 2010 are miniscule. The trend is still flat from 1998 to today despite rapidly rising CO2. I've already posted NOAA articles that point this out.

It's not hard to see. Just look at a chart of the raw estimates from 1998 to today. You can see it in half the articles linked in here.

Edit:

Here's a decent article that explains the different ways the data is being interpreted and why they are both correct:

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2013/aug/25/steve-goreham/global-warming-skeptic-says-global-surface-tempera/

I like the link at the bottom.

Temperature increases that were once predicted

Link doesn't work, on i-phone at least.

 

[MaxThreshold]

15 years ago the projections said we'd be rioting for food today or something.

It remember 15 years ago. No, they didn't.

(Ps if you find some random work of fiction that allegedly proves you are right, well need some real evidence, not wordplay and misdirection.

It was more like 40 years ago - when you guys called it Global Cooling.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Amazing that people cant see and believe whats going on all around them...boggles the mind

Of all the denialist movements, this one is the most widespread. It didn't used to be that way. A decade ago, most Republicans accepted global warming; they just opposed government based solutions as ineffective and bad for the economy. Today, largely as a result of talk radio and a bunch of pseudo scientists throwing out smokescreens, the majority of Reublicans deny the science.

A strange thing happened between then and now. The warming stopped.

Why are people so stubborn when faith is involved

Don Cheadle talks to Katharine Hayhoe, an Evangelical climate scientist, about how she reconciles faith and science and how to speak about climate change with people of faith.

 

[3C's]

This year should be interesting. 1998, which was the last big El Niño year, is the data that all the deniers keep pointing to. This year is supposed to be an even bigger El Niño.

FF to late 2016. "There's been no warming for 2 straight years!!"

 

[Josie Maran]

15 years ago the projections said we'd be rioting for food today or something.

It remember 15 years ago. No, they didn't.

(Ps if you find some random work of fiction that allegedly proves you are right, well need some real evidence, not wordplay and misdirection.

It was more like 40 years ago - when you guys called it Global Cooling.

 

[3C's]

15 years ago the projections said we'd be rioting for food today or something.

It remember 15 years ago. No, they didn't.

(Ps if you find some random work of fiction that allegedly proves you are right, well need some real evidence, not wordplay and misdirection.

It was more like 40 years ago - when you guys called it Global Cooling.

 

[johnjohn]

global warming being caused by man is bs and its being driven by the liberal propaganda machine

 

[DrJ]

Amazing that people cant see and believe whats going on all around them...boggles the mind

Of all the denialist movements, this one is the most widespread. It didn't used to be that way. A decade ago, most Republicans accepted global warming; they just opposed government based solutions as ineffective and bad for the economy. Today, largely as a result of talk radio and a bunch of pseudo scientists throwing out smokescreens, the majority of Reublicans deny the science.

A strange thing happened between then and now. The warming stopped.

Why are people so stubborn when faith is involvedDon Cheadle talks to Katharine Hayhoe, an Evangelical climate scientist, about how she reconciles faith and science and how to speak about climate change with people of faith.

 

[DrJ]

15 years ago the projections said we'd be rioting for food today or something.

It remember 15 years ago. No, they didn't. (Ps if you find some random work of fiction that allegedly proves you are right, well need some real evidence, not wordplay and misdirection.

James Hansen himself has provided quite a few random works of fiction playing out these doomsday scenarios. Oh noooooes, we're past the point of no return!!!!!!!

 

[Rove!]

15 years ago the projections said we'd be rioting for food today or something.

It remember 15 years ago. No, they didn't.

(Ps if you find some random work of fiction that allegedly proves you are right, well need some real evidence, not wordplay and misdirection.

It was more like 40 years ago - when you guys called it Global Cooling.

Effects on the global temperature of large increases in carbon dioxide and aerosol densities in the atmosphere of Earth have been computed. It is found that, although the addition of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere does increase the surface temperature, the rate of temperature increase diminishes with increasing carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. For aerosols, however, the net effect of increase in density is to reduce the surface temperature of Earth. Because of the exponential dependence of the backscattering, the rate of temperature decrease is augmented with increasing aerosol content. An increase by only a factor of 4 in global aerosol background concentration may be sufficient to reduce the surface temperature by as much as 3.5 ° K. If sustained over a period of several years, such a temperature decrease over the whole globe is believed to be sufficient to trigger an ice age.

Science 9 July 1971:

Vol. 173 no. 3992 pp. 138-141

 

[jon_mx]

Wait/ there can't be 2 sets of facts here. Either 1998 was the warmest year on record or it wasn't. Jonessed, you wrote that 1998 was the warmest year on record; that's why you and jon and Dr. J all claim that global warming has stopped for 15 years. The Man just presented evidence to the contrary, that in fact 2005 and 2010 are tied for the warmest years on record. So are you willing now to retract your claim?

You are over-generalizing again. You do that quite a lot.

1998 was hotter than 2011, 2012, or 2013, and very close to 2005 and 2010, but I believe The Man is right and they revised the 1998 temperatures down in 2012. It's now the third hottest year behind 2005 and 2010.

It doesn't affect the trend though. The trend from 1998 to today is still flat. Even the NOAA acknowledges it. That's why scientists are trying to figure out where all of the energy went and how they should change the models.

I love how I am the one over-generalizing when YOU were the one who stated, just a few moments ago, "1998 was the hottest year on record.:" I'm glad to see that you concede the point now that you were wrong.I also think that it's really quite amusing for you to state that 2005 and 2010 "don't affect the trend"- so suddenly 15 years is a trend now, and this from the same people who have been arguing all along that measuring warming since 1880 proves nothing? 130 years is far too short a trend, but 15 years is already a trend?

Let me make this very simple, without "over-generalizing"- if 2005 and 2010 were hotter than 1998, there is NO trend that dispels global warming. It is factually UNTRUE that global warming has not occurred over the last 15 years. You, jon mx, and Dr. J., among many others, simply got this wrong. Admit it and let's move on.

You do realize it is quite possible and even probable that there would be years with higher average temperature but mathematically still no statistical trend upward. You throw out the most ignorant rhetoric on this topic and really have least amount of understanding of the facts. It is not a good combination.

 

[joffer]

global warming being caused by man is bs and its being driven by the liberal propaganda machine

when you're on the same side as this guy, you've bottomed out. HTH

 

[jon_mx]

global warming being caused by man is bs and its being driven by the liberal propaganda machine

when you're on the same side as this guy, you've bottomed out. HTH

oh come on. You have Tim on your side.

 

[drummer]

global warming being caused by man is bs and its being driven by the liberal propaganda machine

when you're on the same side as this guy, you've bottomed out. HTH

oh come on. You have Tim on your side.

When you wind up defending johnjohnjohnjohnjohn, you've had one too many.

 

[jon_mx]

global warming being caused by man is bs and its being driven by the liberal propaganda machine

when you're on the same side as this guy, you've bottomed out. HTH

oh come on. You have Tim on your side.

When you wind up defending johnjohnjohnjohnjohn, you've had one too many.

This could be the first time in FFA history that comparing someone to Tim is considered defending someone.

 

[drummer]

global warming being caused by man is bs and its being driven by the liberal propaganda machine

when you're on the same side as this guy, you've bottomed out. HTH

oh come on. You have Tim on your side.

When you wind up defending johnjohnjohnjohnjohn, you've had one too many.

This could be the first time in FFA history that comparing someone to Tim is considered defending someone.

There is always a first.

 

[johnjohn]

global warming being caused by man is bs and its being driven by the liberal propaganda machine

when you're on the same side as this guy, you've bottomed out. HTH

oh come on. You have Tim on your side.

When you wind up defending johnjohnjohnjohnjohn, you've had one too many.

This could be the first time in FFA history that comparing someone to Tim is considered defending someone.

don't let other people think for you, you're a big boy.

 

[drummer]

global warming being caused by man is bs and its being driven by the liberal propaganda machine

when you're on the same side as this guy, you've bottomed out. HTH

oh come on. You have Tim on your side.

When you wind up defending johnjohnjohnjohnjohn, you've had one too many.

This could be the first time in FFA history that comparing someone to Tim is considered defending someone.

don't let other people think for you, you're a big boy.

Yeah jonjon, it's liberal bias when you do that just like johnjohnjohnjohnjohnjohn says. I'm sure he has a link for it too.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

global warming being caused by man is bs and its being driven by the liberal propaganda machine

when you're on the same side as this guy, you've bottomed out. HTH

oh come on. You have Tim on your side.

When you wind up defending johnjohnjohnjohnjohn, you've had one too many.

This could be the first time in FFA history that comparing someone to Tim is considered defending someone.

don't let other people think for you, you're a big boy.

Yeah jonjon, it's liberal bias when you do that just like johnjohnjohnjohnjohnjohn says. I'm sure he has a link for it too.

bully.......

 

[timschochet]

jon, you think that I have no credibility on this issue. And you're right, I don't. I don't know the first thing about the science. I have trouble understanding it. I'm uncertain about what is to be done. I would hate for us to punish our own industries, especially if it didn't do any good.

But here's what I do know: about 90% of the world's most respected scientists agree on 3 points: global warming is occurring, it's caused by mankind's use of fossil fuels, and it's extremely serious. Virtually everyone around the world seems to agree. The only ones that disagree are American conservatives and about 10% of the scientists, almost all of whom are in the pay of oil companies with a vested interest in doubting the science. Given these facts, I feel comfortable believing that the majority of scientists have it right.

You don't believe them; I get that. But I think it's more because you don't want to than that you've truly absorbed the facts. I'm betting that you don't understand the science too much more than I do, despite the fact that you like to repeat what the skeptics have been telling you. Neither one of us have the credibility to truly know, without help, what is going on here. This is not your typical political issue where we can learn the basic facts and then disagree based on philosophy.

 

[drummer]

In a documentary about fighting fires in California I watched a couple of years ago, the firefighters admitted part of the problem is climate change. They see it first hand.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

i find it hard to imagine that the planet wouldnt suffer from all the crap we are doing to it. At some point the damage has to show one way or another. To say nothings changing is just blatant denial and i can only pray that the people who can stop this do something before its to late.

 

[Dr Oadi]

How is that Kyoto thing doing nowadays?

 

[datonn]

i find it hard to imagine that the planet wouldnt suffer from all the crap we are doing to it. At some point the damage has to show one way or another. To say nothings changing is just blatant denial and i can only pray that the people who can stop this do something before its to late.

^ This. We had thousands of agricultural acres tiled over a few decades...and within the ten years that followed? Our community downstream experienced three "100-year floods." The only thing preventing floods downstream of all the tiled fields the past few years? Below average precipitation. Which is ironic...getting rid of all that moisture as quickly as is possible...then lowering the level of the underground aquifer to stave-off a drought, keeping one of the United States' main food-producing regions producing the type of yields we all need to eat (and keep food prices lower). "I 'r smrt (I mean s-m-a-r-t)."

In Minnesota as a whole, Winter temperatures have been rising nearly twice as fast as Summer temperatures since the ~1980s. Temperatures have risen by more than 1 F in Southern Minnesota, and 2 F in Northern Minnesota. But we had snow flurries last week mixed in with a cold rain...so climate change is a lie?

I've said it 1,000 times, but even if climate change were a complete and utter fraud (Al Gore Be Praised, LOL), I would still support a switch to cleaner energy. Still support policies which reduce our dependence upon fossil fuels. For environmental reasons, for economic reasons (long-term), and for national security reasons. I've never thought ethanol was the answer. Switchgrass would be much better! Though I'm a big fan of solar.

Anyway, if folks think climate change is a lie (I do not), support the environment, the economy (long-term), national security. Unless those things are unAmerican...like many "patriots" on the Right will indirectly tell you they are.