The Case of DeAngelo vs Maroney (1 Viewer)

[Righetti]

I had DeAngelo higher on the charts all off-season but the recent reports have swayed most people towards Maroney.. DeAngelopositives1) more success in college, although playing in a worse conference2) more speed3) went to a team which uses a run-first offense4) behind Deshaun Foster who is not exactly the definition of healthy5) showed in college that he was able to carry the ball a high number of times6) plays on a good defensive team where the RB might be asked to run out the clocknegatives1) DeShaun Foster's new contract which is at starter $$$2) Nick Goings on third downs3) possibly Eric Shelton in short-yardage4) has not exactly had a unbelievable preseason, although the reports aren't flattering they aren't really negative either5) possible wear/tear in college.. not much of a concern for me since he is 22/23 years old6) may not have the ideal size (I don't buy into the size, we've gone over this a million times but people always bring it up)7) may not have a game that fits the NFL style well (bouncing it outside works better in college than in the pro's)according to NFL.com's scouting department before the draft, they rated him as follows

DeAngeloSTRONG POINTS Williams is a very quick-footed, elusive back who can stop and start quickly to make tacklers miss -- very good at avoiding tacklers who get into the backfield fast. Has the quickness to cut back and get through the backside hole fast, and can even make the sharp cut in the hole to avoid hits. Has surprising strength and balance to keep his feet against arm tackles and hard hits. Catches the ball well out of the backfield and is a dangerous runner in the open field because of his ability to make tacklers miss and to keep feet against low, grab tackles. WEAKNESSES Williams is a short running back who lacks the bulk and size to break tackles consistently. He is much more of a dancer than an attack-style runner -- when there is no hole he does not attack the line of scrimmage and tends to go down too easily. He is quicker than fast and lacks the elite playing speed to outrun the defense for the long touchdown -- no top-level explosiveness. He is undersized as a pass blocker and does not consistently use good technique, which leads to his man pressuring the quarterback too often. This lack of size will hinder his durability in the NFL.

Maroneypositives1) Bill Belichek loves him2) playing behind Correy Dillon who has already lost his job once (in cincinatti)3) playing behind Corey Dillon who is not a spring-chicken4) has good success at Minnesota5) had very high draft grades by Skeletor and rumor has it that the Donkeys were hoping he'd fall to them6) plays on a good defensive team where the RB might be asked to run out the clocknegatives1) Corey Dillon is still ahead of him, he might be there for a few years and this could turn into an ugly RBBC2) although Dillon's rb numbers were good last year, the Pats throw a ton in previous years and RB's have not always been consistent.. although a case can be made that RB's were never all that good3) had good success in college but his #'s are a far-cry from DeAngelo's or Reggie's4) not overly fastaccording to NFL.com's scouting department before the draft, they rated him as follows

MARONEYSTRONG POINTS Maroney is a very good athlete with the ability to be a strong and dominant runner when he runs aggressively. When he lowers his shoulder, he can punish tacklers and drags them for extra yards -- Keeps feet vs. hard hits and low/grab tackles. He has very good instincts and vision and has the foot quickness to make sharp cuts and gets through the hole fast. He has good hands catching the ball out of the backfield and his combination of athleticism, size, strength and quickness make him a strong and dangerous runner out in the open field. WEAKNESSES Maroney does not run aggressively on every snap, which limits his production. When there is no hole he tends to slow up, turns back and goes down easily. Too often he runs upright, does not attack the small hole and does not run aggressively on every carry. When he does not run aggressively, he does not break tackles and struggles to consistently gain yards after contact. He is not an elusive make-you-miss runner. He has a quick burst through the hole, but lacks the explosiveness through the hole and does not have the elite speed to run away from defenses. He is not a consistently productive pass blocker because he does not always step up and pick up blitzers aggressively.

I'm sure i'm leaving stuff out..because i did not see either back play extensively in college and have not seen only limited preseason Pats or Panther games so this is based on what I've read on these boards, in the FF News and from various reports (espn etc.)

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

As a Pats fan, I was as surprised as anyone when the Pats drafted Maroney. Belichick never takes an RB in the first round.

He very well might be a special player, Belichick has a pretty good track record with his draft picks.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Dillon never lost his job in Cincy did he? He was injured in his final season there and Rudi took over.

 

[Kleck.]

This one will be debated for some time.

Before the draft I had them as close to equal as possible, but after the draft I slightly favored Maroney and because of him being almost two years younger I chose him at 1.02 in my dynasty rookie draft.

Right now, I don't think it matters much as I believe both of these backs have a nice future.

 

[Loomba]

Right now, based on what I saw in the preseason games, there is no question that Maroney is the better pick. He's looked better and I don't think Dillon can stay healthy for long. Not saying DeAngelo is a bad pick, just that Maroney has been more impressive to date.

 

[Woz]

From what I understand Foster has looked good in camp. His coach also likes to play his vets (see him starting Davis over Foster all those years). Foster was also pretty good last year when he wasn't hurt. So, with DeAngelo, you're basically banking on a Foster injury. With Maroney, you got a guy in Dillon who is aging pretty fast for a RB and looked mediocre last year. Also, Belichick seems more open than Fox to try new formations and such. Therefore, I'd say Maroney will have the best chance at numbers success this year. However, if both Dillon and Foster would go down, I'd rather have Williams as CAR has always produced top ten RB numbers in recent years.

 

[BassNBrew]

A few disagreements with your pros and cons.

DeAngelo

positives

1) more success in college, although playing in a worse conference

2) more speed

3) went to a team which uses a run-first offense

4) behind Deshaun Foster who is not exactly the definition of healthy

5) showed in college that he was able to carry the ball a high number of times

6) plays on a good defensive team where the RB might be asked to run out the clock

negatives

1) DeShaun Foster's new contract which is at starter $$$

2) Nick Goings on third downs

3) possibly Eric Shelton in short-yardage

4) has not exactly had a unbelievable preseason, although the reports aren't flattering they aren't really negative either

5) possible wear/tear in college.. not much of a concern for me since he is 22/23 years old

6) may not have the ideal size (I don't buy into the size, we've gone over this a million times but people always bring it up)

7) may not have a game that fits the NFL style well (bouncing it outside works better in college than in the pro's)

 

[broncofan13000]

A few disagreements with your pros and cons.

DeAngelo

positives

1) more success in college, although playing in a worse conference

2) more speed

3) went to a team which uses a run-first offense

4) behind Deshaun Foster who is not exactly the definition of healthy

5) showed in college that he was able to carry the ball a high number of times

6) plays on a good defensive team where the RB might be asked to run out the clock

Carolina ranked in the top ten in rushing attempts per game, and the bottom 10 in passing attempts per game. I think that would make them a run first offense. And most people would agree that Carolina has a top defense...

 

[Koya]

Looking at their college careers and the bit I saw of both, I have to say DeAngelo, long term, has more "talent" upside - speed, quickness, gamebreaker, but that Maroney is more of a safer pick. Not the top end upside and sick abilities, but a more than solid runner that could likely have a very solid to very good career.

For some reason I think DeAngelo has an upside of an 80% Barry Sanders (just cant think of a good example... and he is NOT Barry talented) and the guy I always think of for some reason with Maroney is Curtis Martin in terms of running, fantasy, possible career. Not sure why but I do.

 

[BGP]

As a Pats fan, I was as surprised as anyone when the Pats drafted Maroney. Belichick never takes an RB in the first round. He very well might be a special player, Belichick has a pretty good track record with his draft picks.

2006 Lawrence Maroney (looking impressive)2005 1.32 Logan Mankins (played well)2004 1.21 DT Vince Wilfork (inconsistent at NT from what I understand), 1.32 TE Ben Watson (turning into a great TE?)2003 1.13 DE Ty Warren (looking great this camp from what I hear)2002 1.21 TE Dan Graham (outstanding blocker)2001 1.06 DT Richard Seymour (pro bowler)Does that sound accurate to you?

 

[Boston]

As a Pats fan, I was as surprised as anyone when the Pats drafted Maroney. Belichick never takes an RB in the first round. He very well might be a special player, Belichick has a pretty good track record with his draft picks.

2006 Lawrence Maroney (looking impressive)2005 1.32 Logan Mankins (played well)2004 1.21 DT Vince Wilfork (inconsistent at NT from what I understand), 1.32 TE Ben Watson (turning into a great TE?)2003 1.13 DE Ty Warren (looking great this camp from what I hear)2002 1.21 TE Dan Graham (outstanding blocker)2001 1.06 DT Richard Seymour (pro bowler)Does that sound accurate to you?

Everything except Wilfork to a point. He was definetly in the learning stages for about a year and a half (i.e. he was inconsistent as you stated). About halfway through last year he really turned it on and became consistent. They worked on his technique and once he corrected a few things and settled into the NT role his play really soared (I'm sure Seymour's return from injury was helpful as well). He was a force in the middle and is on the verge of being a legit Pro Bowl level player. Right now he's considered a big time piece of the Patriot foundation.

 

[Kleck.]

I'd rather have Williams as CAR has always produced top ten RB numbers in recent years.

Be careful how you use "always."Since Fox came to Carolina, as a team they have only finished once in the top 10 for rushing yards and rushing TD's, and twice in rushing attempts. And Fox has never had a top 10 fantasy RB.

 

[PahtyTom]

As a Pats fan, I was as surprised as anyone when the Pats drafted Maroney. Belichick never takes an RB in the first round. He very well might be a special player, Belichick has a pretty good track record with his draft picks.

2006 Lawrence Maroney (looking impressive)2005 1.32 Logan Mankins (played well)2004 1.21 DT Vince Wilfork (inconsistent at NT from what I understand), 1.32 TE Ben Watson (turning into a great TE?)2003 1.13 DE Ty Warren (looking great this camp from what I hear)2002 1.21 TE Dan Graham (outstanding blocker)2001 1.06 DT Richard Seymour (pro bowler)Does that sound accurate to you?

Everything except Wilfork to a point. He was definetly in the learning stages for about a year and a half (i.e. he was inconsistent as you stated). About halfway through last year he really turned it on and became consistent. They worked on his technique and once he corrected a few things and settled into the NT role his play really soared (I'm sure Seymour's return from injury was helpful as well). He was a force in the middle and is on the verge of being a legit Pro Bowl level player. Right now he's considered a big time piece of the Patriot foundation.

Yea Wilfork has also looked dominant so far this TC and preseason. Belichick actually said on a radio interview around here that Wilfork has made some special plays that he has not seen many players do at this level. Open praise from BB? Wilfork must REALLY be looking good. He may make the jump into the Casey Hampton, Jamal Williams 3-4 NT elite grouping this year.

 

[BassNBrew]

A few disagreements with your pros and cons.

DeAngelo

positives

1) more success in college, although playing in a worse conference

2) more speed

3) went to a team which uses a run-first offense

4) behind Deshaun Foster who is not exactly the definition of healthy

5) showed in college that he was able to carry the ball a high number of times

6) plays on a good defensive team where the RB might be asked to run out the clock

Carolina ranked in the top ten in rushing attempts per game, and the bottom 10 in passing attempts per game. I think that would make them a run first offense. And most people would agree that Carolina has a top defense...

Carolina was ranked 4th in yards per pass attempt and second to last in yards per carry. I tend to focus on what's successful for a team as that's the result I want to see in my fantasy players. Yes, Carolina is the king of the cloud of dust rushing game and that doesn't bode well for DW.

I don't believe a good defensive team bodes well for a RB. I like RBs on teams with crappy D's that will have to score a lot (Holmes, LJ, LT) or will rack up garbage time yards when the oppostion is in a prevent D. 3 consecutive 2 yard carries against an 8-9 man front to kill the clock doesn't produce much in the way of fantasy points.

 

[IndyHavoc]

DeAngelo

positives

5) showed in college that he was able to carry the ball a high number of times

Maroney

positives

...

Just wanted to note, definitely add the point above to Maroney's list. That game vs Purdue was all I ever needed to see to know he was something special. I'll look up the line, but I think it was 46 rush attempts for like 180 yards??Edit: looked it up

Rushes   Yards   YPC	TD  LongLaurence Maroney	46	217	4.7	0	27

 

[metoo]

Looking at their college careers and the bit I saw of both, I have to say DeAngelo, long term, has more "talent" upside - speed, quickness, gamebreaker, but that Maroney is more of a safer pick. Not the top end upside and sick abilities, but a more than solid runner that could likely have a very solid to very good career. For some reason I think DeAngelo has an upside of an 80% Barry Sanders (just cant think of a good example... and he is NOT Barry talented) and the guy I always think of for some reason with Maroney is Curtis Martin in terms of running, fantasy, possible career. Not sure why but I do.

Going by that I take Maroney not DeAngelo

 

[Koya]

Looking at their college careers and the bit I saw of both, I have to say DeAngelo, long term, has more "talent" upside - speed, quickness, gamebreaker, but that Maroney is more of a safer pick. Not the top end upside and sick abilities, but a more than solid runner that could likely have a very solid to very good career. For some reason I think DeAngelo has an upside of an 80% Barry Sanders (just cant think of a good example... and he is NOT Barry talented) and the guy I always think of for some reason with Maroney is Curtis Martin in terms of running, fantasy, possible career. Not sure why but I do.

Going by that I take Maroney not DeAngelo

I would, too.

 

[Righetti]

DeAngelo

positives

5) showed in college that he was able to carry the ball a high number of times

Maroney

positives

...

Just wanted to note, definitely add the point above to Maroney's list. That game vs Purdue was all I ever needed to see to know he was something special. I'll look up the line, but I think it was 46 rush attempts for like 180 yards??Edit: looked it up

Rushes Yards YPC TD LongLaurence Maroney 46 217 4.7 0 27

ANother interesting point to look at Maroney college carries per season are pretty good. especially 20052003: 162/1121/10 6.9ypc

2004: 217/1348/10 6.2ypc

2005: 281/1464/10 5.2ypc

interesting to note that his YPC came down..but I'm sure this can be expected with more carries *wear on the body** plus I am not sure how Minnesota offense looked in those years and what changes they may or may not have had on the offensive line

 

[Righetti]

DeAngelo Williams

2002: 103/684/5 6.6ypc

2003: 243/1430/10 5.9ypc

2004: 313/1948/22 6.3YPC

2005: 310/1964/18 6.3ypc

Williams has proven he can carry the ball more times per year (2 years of 310+ carries) but this could also mean more wear/tear.... Maroney's 281 carries last year also shows he can carry a large load.

 

[Righetti]

Dillon never lost his job in Cincy did he? He was injured in his final season there and Rudi took over.

in 2003 Dillon was dinged up but when he came back he went back into the starting lineup playing RBBC with Rudi.. Dillon started the last 5 games of that season but never became the main focal part of the offense againin 2003 Dillon was dinged up... but he still managed to play in 13 games.. from what I remember, he had really worn out his welcome in Cincinatti and although he was a pro-bowl type RB they felt that Rudi was a better fit for them when they didn't bring him back in 2004 (maybe he was traded I don't remember)

 

[broncofan13000]

seems like most are favouring Maroney over Deangelo so far...

 

[Righetti]

A few disagreements with your pros and cons.

DeAngelo

positives

1) more success in college, although playing in a worse conference

2) more speed

3) went to a team which uses a run-first offense

4) behind Deshaun Foster who is not exactly the definition of healthy

5) showed in college that he was able to carry the ball a high number of times

6) plays on a good defensive team where the RB might be asked to run out the clock

negatives

1) DeShaun Foster's new contract which is at starter $$$

2) Nick Goings on third downs

3) possibly Eric Shelton in short-yardage

4) has not exactly had a unbelievable preseason, although the reports aren't flattering they aren't really negative either

5) possible wear/tear in college.. not much of a concern for me since he is 22/23 years old

6) may not have the ideal size (I don't buy into the size, we've gone over this a million times but people always bring it up)

7) may not have a game that fits the NFL style well (bouncing it outside works better in college than in the pro's)

he does play on a team that is run first and it is a good defensive team.. Not sure if you are disagreeing with those as facts or if you don't think those are pro's for him..

regarding the cons.. Nick Goings will be involved on some level, Eric Shelton maybe not (i did say possibly). and the size-thing.. Beleive me I don't think that is true either.. but it is a con that people will bring up, which is the reason that I mentioned it (but I did put a disclaimer behind it saying that I did not buy that)

 

[Righetti]

additional pro's for DeAngelo

* had a real nose for the end-zone in college

* proved he can carry the ball 300+ times in a season

additional pros for Maroney

* proven that he can carry the ball 280+ times in a season (very good in college with less games*

* proven that he can carry the ball 45+ times in a single game

 

[billymays]

do what i did

im in a keeper and my backs are getting old

so i got both of them

it just makes the whole thing a lot easier

i drafted williams earlier simply because everyones mag has williams higher and that is all the average noob goes by

 

[Righetti]

the real question is how long Dillon sticks around. If Maroney pushes him for playing time next year, there could be a possibility that they don't bring Corey back next year.. although I dont know what his contract looks like and what the cap hit (if any) would be

 

[perry147]

the real question is how long Dillon sticks around. If Maroney pushes him for playing time next year, there could be a possibility that they don't bring Corey back next year.. although I dont know what his contract looks like and what the cap hit (if any) would be

This is so important in my view.

How much of a cap hit would the pats take if Dillon gets cut next year? Which if he plays this year like he did last year seems very possible.

 

[Righetti]

as per fanball:

Dillon's contract extension calls for base salaries of $1 million in 2005 and $3 million in 2006, according to NFLPA figures published in the Boston Herald. If the Patriots pick up his three-year option after the 2005 season, Dillon will receive a base salary of $2.5 million for 2007, 2008, and 2009.

 

[Righetti]

how does the possible Maroney injury impact this one-on-one?

 

[bentley]

how does the possible Maroney injury impact this one-on-one?

AS A DEANGELO WILLIAMS OWNER.....I dunno. 14 percent? Shouldn't you be kissing Derek Jeter right now?

 

[Righetti]

how does the possible Maroney injury impact this one-on-one?

AS A DEANGELO WILLIAMS OWNER.....I dunno. 14 percent? Shouldn't you be kissing Derek Jeter right now?

 

[Otis]

Interesting

 

[Righetti]

DeAngelo

Week 1 0/0/0 plus 1/8/0

week 2 13/74/1 plus 5/24/0

Maroney

Week 1 17/86/0 plus 0/0/0

week 2 16/65/1 plus 0/0/0

week 1 advantage Maroney

week 2 advantage DeAngelo (but not a huge advantage)

 

[Hendo]

u msince when does Williams have more speed then Maroney?

someone needs to bust out those scouting reports again

and Maroney just looks like a proto-type NFL caliber RB. has that speed/size with the 1 cut and go ability all coaches look for. almost always gets positive yardage. a true workhorse back imo.

 

[Righetti]

40 yard dash at the combine

DeAngelo 4.42

Maroney 4.47

about equal

 

[Righetti]

A few disagreements with your pros and cons.

DeAngelo

positives

1) more success in college, although playing in a worse conference

2) more speed

3) went to a team which uses a run-first offense

4) behind Deshaun Foster who is not exactly the definition of healthy

5) showed in college that he was able to carry the ball a high number of times

6) plays on a good defensive team where the RB might be asked to run out the clock

STILL .. he does play on a run-first offense and he does play for a good defensive team

 

[Righetti]

through week 4

Maroney 60/294/3 plus 6/76/0

DeAngelo 25/135/1 plus 7/41/0

 

[SproutDaddy]

through week 4Maroney 60/294/3 plus 6/76/0DeAngelo 25/135/1 plus 7/41/0

So what are we trying to say here? Maroney has more carries?

 

[Righetti]

through week 4Maroney 60/294/3 plus 6/76/0DeAngelo 25/135/1 plus 7/41/0

So what are we trying to say here? Maroney has more carries?

Maroney has had a better season...based more on opportunities than anything

 

[Koya]

Very different runners but could be a classic example of two guys, from the same class, both of whom have the talent to be big successes in this league.

After this year, they will both be the 80% guy for their respective teams (in all liklihood) and the talent will shine through. DeAngelo as the better pure and more 'dynamic' runner as compared to the more powerful, physical and complete Maroney.

Great for football fans for the coming years if they both manage to stay healthy and fulfill on the early promise.

 

[cstu]

A few disagreements with your pros and cons.

DeAngelo

positives

1) more success in college, although playing in a worse conference

2) more speed

3) went to a team which uses a run-first offense

4) behind Deshaun Foster who is not exactly the definition of healthy

5) showed in college that he was able to carry the ball a high number of times

6) plays on a good defensive team where the RB might be asked to run out the clock

STILL .. he does play on a run-first offense and he does play for a good defensive team

They may try to be a run-first team, but their defense has been poor so far and they've passed more than they've run in every game - 39-16, 33-27, 36-26, and 29-26