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The Hawk Goes to the Hall, 2010 (1 Viewer)

Real surprised Alomar didn't get in.

As for Dawson, meh....ok. I can live with him over other guys that claim they should be in. Blyleven still isn't a HOF'er, nor should be be IMO.

 
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Can we get this moved to the proper forum please? It's impeding my freedom to view who's hottest, Inglorious Basterds, and Shuke's pretty wimmens thread, thanks.

 
MrPhoenix said:
Blyleven still isn't a HOF'er, nor should be be IMO.
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I've heard all the anti-Blyleven arguments before, but his 287 wins, 3701 strikeouts and 4970 innings pitched are looking better and better as pitchers become more specialized.More strikeouts than any other right handed non-steroid user not named Nolan Ryan. That is very hard to ignore.
 
Sucks for Blyleven, too bad he didn't have the free agency option players do today. He could have went to NY/Boston, got big money, been an all star every season because he played there and more importantly would have won well over 300 games. Seriously, the guy pitched on some really bad teams.

 
jestertj said:
Sucks for Blyleven, too bad he didn't have the free agency option players do today. He could have went to NY/Boston, got big money, been an all star every season because he played there and more importantly would have won well over 300 games. Seriously, the guy pitched on some really bad teams.
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He played almost his entire career during the era of free agency. For whatever reasons, he never went that route until the tail end of his career (1992-3)
 
whitem0nkey said:
SecondCity34 said:
TommyGilmore said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847
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Will he go in as an Expo or a Cub?
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I would guess Expo based on that he was with Montreal longer. Got his ROY with them. Was 2nd in MVP balloting twice with them. He was only close once with the Cubs, his first year with them when he won. He was in his only winning playoff series with Montreal.
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First (and only unless support for Raines takes a leap) Expo in the hall.Allez le Faucon

 
whitem0nkey said:
SecondCity34 said:
TommyGilmore said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847
Click to expand...
Will he go in as an Expo or a Cub?
Click to expand...
I would guess Expo based on that he was with Montreal longer. Got his ROY with them. Was 2nd in MVP balloting twice with them. He was only close once with the Cubs, his first year with them when he won. He was in his only winning playoff series with Montreal.
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What are you talking about? "Close" to an MVP with the Cubs? He WON the MVP with them in 1987. Must be a bitter Sox fan.
 
jestertj said:
Sucks for Blyleven, too bad he didn't have the free agency option players do today. He could have went to NY/Boston, got big money, been an all star every season because he played there and more importantly would have won well over 300 games. Seriously, the guy pitched on some really bad teams.
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he'll get in next year. mark it down
 
MrPhoenix said:
Real surprised Alomar didn't get in.As for Dawson, meh....ok. I can live with him over other guys that claim they should be in. Blyleven still isn't a HOF'er, nor should be be IMO.
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Expand on this.Why shouldn't he be?I'm not a fan of Jim Rice being in. Real terror at home but the item that really stands out as a black mark on Rice's resume for me is his completely average numbers outside of the Fenway bandbox ... a .277/.330/.459 career line, or a .789 OPS. Again, that's a sub .800 OPS for half of his career... when he was reportedly the most feared hitter in baseball. In Fenway, that might have been true. Everywhere else, not so much. 382 career homers? Hall of Fame shouldn't be Hall of Good at home
 
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whitem0nkey said:
SecondCity34 said:
TommyGilmore said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847
Click to expand...
Will he go in as an Expo or a Cub?
Click to expand...
I would guess Expo based on that he was with Montreal longer. Got his ROY with them. Was 2nd in MVP balloting twice with them. He was only close once with the Cubs, his first year with them when he won. He was in his only winning playoff series with Montreal.
Click to expand...
If it is still the choice of the player, there is almost no way he goes in as an Expo. Dawson was quite critical of that organization in his autobiography and credits the Cubs as being the team that really made him feel at home as a baseball player. He also enjoyed his time with the Red Sox, but it wasn't very long nor very productive.
 
JJP said:
whitem0nkey said:
SecondCity34 said:
TommyGilmore said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847
Click to expand...
Will he go in as an Expo or a Cub?
Click to expand...
I would guess Expo based on that he was with Montreal longer. Got his ROY with them. Was 2nd in MVP balloting twice with them. He was only close once with the Cubs, his first year with them when he won. He was in his only winning playoff series with Montreal.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? "Close" to an MVP with the Cubs? He WON the MVP with them in 1987. Must be a bitter Sox fan.
Click to expand...
please re-read my post. im basically saying he had 3 MVPish seasons, 2 with expos and 1 with the cubs.Sox fan yes bitter no, I wish nothing more to my fellow Chicagoan then to have a world series. Us cub and sox fans are also bears, bulls hawks and fire fans(a few of us).

 
whitem0nkey said:
JJP said:
whitem0nkey said:
SecondCity34 said:
TommyGilmore said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/news/story?id=4801847
Click to expand...
Will he go in as an Expo or a Cub?
Click to expand...
I would guess Expo based on that he was with Montreal longer. Got his ROY with them. Was 2nd in MVP balloting twice with them. He was only close once with the Cubs, his first year with them when he won. He was in his only winning playoff series with Montreal.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? "Close" to an MVP with the Cubs? He WON the MVP with them in 1987. Must be a bitter Sox fan.
Click to expand...
please re-read my post. im basically saying he had 3 MVPish seasons, 2 with expos and 1 with the cubs.Sox fan yes bitter no, I wish nothing more to my fellow Chicagoan then to have a world series. Us cub and sox fans are also bears, bulls hawks and fire fans(a few of us).
Click to expand...
Re-type your posts.
 
SecondCity34 said:
TommyGilmore said:
D said:
Re-type your posts.
Click to expand...
:confused: How about something like this:

Dawson had 2 seasons with Montreal where he finished in the top-2 of the MVP vote. He only had 1 such season with Chicago, although he did win the MVP that year.
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How about "Although he came very close to winning the MVP twice with the Expos, he won the f***ing thing as a Cub."
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Enjoy the day, and dont let a sox fan ruin it for you. if it means anything Hawk, Grace and Ryno are some of my favorite cubs.2010 Hall of fame voting

 
SecondCity34 said:
TommyGilmore said:
D said:
Re-type your posts.
Click to expand...
:ptts:How about something like this:Dawson had 2 seasons with Montreal where he finished in the top-2 of the MVP vote. He only had 1 such season with Chicago, although he did win the MVP that year.
Click to expand...
How about "Although he came very close to winning the MVP twice with the Expos, he won the f***ing thing as a Cub."
Click to expand...
But shouldn't have. The baseball writers who voted for MVP had for years denied players from last place teams from consideration. Their argument was that the team could finish in last place without him. Fair enough. But why make the exception for Dawson and no one else? 49homers in a small park where windblown homers are the norm? You'd think if he was the best player in the league he could have gotten them out of the basement. It was a 6 team division for crying out loud, there were plenty of bad teams.That vote was a travesty and will be used as reason #1 why Dawson was good enough for the hall.Hall of Very Good say hello to your new member.
 
Mariotti continues his stupid parade. He left his ballot blank.

I didn't vote for anybody in the baseball hall of fame this year. Ya know why? To me...the first ballot is sacred. I think Roberto Alomar is an eventual Hall of Famer, not the first time. Edgar Martinez, designated hitter, eventually, but not the first time. Same goes for maybe Fred McGriff. As far as Blyleven and Dawson...if they haven't gotten in for years and years I cannot vote them in now. Ripken, Rickey Henderson and Gwynn. They are true first ballot Hall of Famers, but I didn't vote for anybody, throw me out of the Baseball Writers. I don't care.
Click to expand...
 
hook014 said:
The baseball writers who voted for MVP had for years denied players from last place teams from consideration. Their argument was that the team could finish in last place without him. Fair enough. But why make the exception for Dawson and no one else? 49 homers in a small park where windblown homers are the norm? You'd think if he was the best player in the league he could have gotten them out of the basement. It was a 6 team division for crying out loud, there were plenty of bad teams.
Click to expand...
22 road home runs = led the NL.
 
whitem0nkey said:
Mariotti continues his stupid parade. He left his ballot blank.

I didn't vote for anybody in the baseball hall of fame this year. Ya know why? To me...the first ballot is sacred. I think Roberto Alomar is an eventual Hall of Famer, not the first time. Edgar Martinez, designated hitter, eventually, but not the first time. Same goes for maybe Fred McGriff. As far as Blyleven and Dawson...if they haven't gotten in for years and years I cannot vote them in now. Ripken, Rickey Henderson and Gwynn. They are true first ballot Hall of Famers, but I didn't vote for anybody, throw me out of the Baseball Writers. I don't care.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
the first ballot argument is one of the dumbest arguments I ever heard. These writers cant die off soon enough for me.
 
whitem0nkey said:
LHUCKS said:
The Hawk deserves to be in...the bigger story is McGwire IMHO.
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just 23% of the votes. between Tim Raines and Alan Trammell
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yep...all the power hitters were roiding, kind of feel like he's going to get a raw deal...and as far as we know he was not using anabolic steroids, but other supplements that at the time were legal.I'd vote for McGwire before Blyleven.
 
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LHUCKS said:
whitem0nkey said:
LHUCKS said:
The Hawk deserves to be in...the bigger story is McGwire IMHO.
Click to expand...
just 23% of the votes. between Tim Raines and Alan Trammell
Click to expand...
yep...all the power hitters were roiding, kind of feel like he's going to get a raw deal...and as far as we know he was not using anabolic steroids, but other supplements that at the time were legal.I'd vote for McGwire before Blyleven.
Click to expand...
We know McGwire used steroids. I don't care if he gets voted in or not, but he used steroids.
 
Fennis said:
whitem0nkey said:
Mariotti continues his stupid parade. He left his ballot blank.

I didn't vote for anybody in the baseball hall of fame this year. Ya know why? To me...the first ballot is sacred. I think Roberto Alomar is an eventual Hall of Famer, not the first time. Edgar Martinez, designated hitter, eventually, but not the first time. Same goes for maybe Fred McGriff. As far as Blyleven and Dawson...if they haven't gotten in for years and years I cannot vote them in now. Ripken, Rickey Henderson and Gwynn. They are true first ballot Hall of Famers, but I didn't vote for anybody, throw me out of the Baseball Writers. I don't care.
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Click to expand...
the first ballot argument is one of the dumbest arguments I ever heard. These writers cant die off soon enough for me.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: And he is double stupid. Won't vote for them the first year. Won't vote for them if they haven't gotten in after a certain time. Lots of sense.
 
TommyGilmore said:
hook014 said:
The baseball writers who voted for MVP had for years denied players from last place teams from consideration. Their argument was that the team could finish in last place without him. Fair enough. But why make the exception for Dawson and no one else? 49 homers in a small park where windblown homers are the norm? You'd think if he was the best player in the league he could have gotten them out of the basement. It was a 6 team division for crying out loud, there were plenty of bad teams.
Click to expand...
22 road home runs = led the NL.
Click to expand...
Jack Clark would have won the MVP but he only played 133 games and got hurt again during the playoffs. He and Ozzie Smith also split the St. Louis vote. Tony.Gwynn hit .370 and Will Clark had a better year than Dawson for a divisional winner. Dawson is a more deserving HoF member than he was a MVP in 1987.

 
Eephus said:
TommyGilmore said:
hook014 said:
The baseball writers who voted for MVP had for years denied players from last place teams from consideration. Their argument was that the team could finish in last place without him. Fair enough. But why make the exception for Dawson and no one else? 49 homers in a small park where windblown homers are the norm? You'd think if he was the best player in the league he could have gotten them out of the basement. It was a 6 team division for crying out loud, there were plenty of bad teams.
Click to expand...
22 road home runs = led the NL.
Click to expand...
Jack Clark would have won the MVP but he only played 133 games and got hurt again during the playoffs. He and Ozzie Smith also split the St. Louis vote. Tony.Gwynn hit .370 and Will Clark had a better year than Dawson for a divisional winner. Dawson is a more deserving HoF member than he was a MVP in 1987.
Click to expand...
I wasn't really arguing in favor of Dawson's MVP award. I was just debunking the myth that his HR total was solely thanks to Wrigley field.
 
TommyGilmore said:
Eephus said:
TommyGilmore said:
hook014 said:
The baseball writers who voted for MVP had for years denied players from last place teams from consideration. Their argument was that the team could finish in last place without him. Fair enough. But why make the exception for Dawson and no one else? 49 homers in a small park where windblown homers are the norm? You'd think if he was the best player in the league he could have gotten them out of the basement. It was a 6 team division for crying out loud, there were plenty of bad teams.
Click to expand...
22 road home runs = led the NL.
Click to expand...
Jack Clark would have won the MVP but he only played 133 games and got hurt again during the playoffs. He and Ozzie Smith also split the St. Louis vote. Tony.Gwynn hit .370 and Will Clark had a better year than Dawson for a divisional winner. Dawson is a more deserving HoF member than he was a MVP in 1987.
Click to expand...
I wasn't really arguing in favor of Dawson's MVP award. I was just debunking the myth that his HR total was solely thanks to Wrigley field.
Click to expand...
Wrigley is an odd place, some days its a hitters park and some its a pitchers park. the wind off the lake dictates that more than the dimensions.
 
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