The Johan Santana rumor mill (1 Viewer)

[the moops]

I've been absent lately in here, but if the Sox are able to incorporate Crisp in the deal and pull this off, I'll tip my hat and say go with God to both teams. I can't imagine the Twinks wanting him, he seems like a garbage player to me, and if the Sox can spin a spare part into Johan, more power to them.I'll stand by my belief that Johan is spotty in cold weather climes. The Change is a feel pitch, and I think that effect is diminished. He never pitched well at Yankee stadium in postseason(small sample) and he's a typical slow starter(a better example). If I'm him, do I really want to be pushing for the Hall of Fame when I could hang a change in Boston and face rough weather for almost half of my home games? I also can't see Boston paying him, but I'll take it at the face value right now that he looks like he'll land there. I know we've had whispers in here, but I'll state it outright, I'll predict he is in the downside and we've seen the best of Johan. Not to say he won't be a marvelously effective Cy Young contender for the next 5 years, but I think the ball is rolling down the other side of the hill now based on last years numbers. He's terrific and if he were a free agent, break the bank for him. But don't mortage the future. I'd rather roll the dice on CC or Bedard on the market in a year or two.

The last time Santana pitched in Yankee stadium in the playoffs, he threw 7 innings of shutout ball, and got the win.Based on last years numbers, you are still getting one of the best pitcher in baseball. His 1.07 WHIP was better, by a decent margin over the other Cy Young candidates. Same goes for his 235 strikeouts.I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

 

[Alias]

There had been speculation the Red Sox were closing in on a deal on Thursday, but Yankee executives don't believe there was much to the rumors. And sources Friday said the Twins won't consider a deal with the Sox unless they include two of their big three prospects, pitchers Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz, and center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury.The Sox apparently have told the Twins they won't do that, including only Lester among those three as part of a four-player proposal on Thursday.

The Boston Red Sox are the Yankees' main competition for Santana -- if he is dealt. The Twins, the person said, like Boston Red Sox center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury better than Cabrera and Boston pitcher Clay Buchholz over Hughes.An official from a team involved in Santana talks, who asked not to be named because of the sensitive nature of trade discussions, said the Red Sox would put Ellsbury in the deal only if the Twins included a significant "extra piece" in addition to Santana.

 

[Alias]

Based on that last quote, sounds to me that: Crisp + Buchholz + Z would make this deal happen for Boston with New York needing to up the ante with Cano + Hughes which I seriously doubt they would do. I don't see Boston getting anywhere with Haren since it sounds like Beane is demanding Buchholz + Ellsbury type players in return.

 

[Max hardcore]

I don't see Boston getting anywhere with Haren since it sounds like Beane is demanding Buchholz + Ellsbury type players in return.

As an A's fan, I can confirm with 99% certainty that this is the case. There's no sense in just giving Haren away for nonsense like Crisp and Lester.

 

[topjimmy]

I think the Red Sox have offered Crisp, Lester, Masterson, Bowden and Lowrie for Santana and one minor leage TBD. The Sox definitely pull the trigger on this deal if they are confident they can sign Santana long term. I truly feel the only reason Boston has even entered this scene is to force the Yankees to give up one of their top pitching prospects to secure Santana. Prior to the Sox interest, the Yankees said no way to Hughes or Joba in a deal for Santana but now have said to be willing to part with Hughes in the deal. As a Sox fan I would love to see them get Santana as it would give them the most dominant staff seen in years but as one other post stated the list of potential Sox players could fill the bible LOL

I think it is a great move to throw a realistic offer on the table in hopes of either landing Santana or at the very least driving the price up for him. So far the Sox offer I posted above is the best offer on the table so far for Santana, but the young steinbrenner will make his poppa proud and do whatever it takes to land this monster arm. The yankees would be stupid to trade Cano as one post stated earlier. I don't like the Yankees but there isn't much not to like with that kids swing.

And as far as Haren, he is a stud but Beane is smoking crack

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

Josh BeckettJustin VerlanderFausto CarmonaFelix HernandezBrandon WebbFrancisco Liriano if he comes back healthyThere are probably others. Not saying any of those guys are better than Santana, but I'd bet one or two of them will have a better five year stretch going forward.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I think we are beginning to see the demise of Papi.

He was in need of knee surgery BEFORE last season and his big dumb ### didn't get it. It turned his HRs into 2Bs (he hit a career high 52). He also battled other injuries and still posted Career highs in Average (.332) and OPS (1.066)... all while striking out the fewest number of times in the last 4 years.

The surgery was reportedly a huge success and he expects to be training in January again... and most likely a ton of those 2Bs will revert to HRs next season.

I was actually amazed at Big Papi. His knee was so bad that he changed his stance to being much more upright, yet he still posted excellent numbers. I don't know if people realize how difficult that is

 

[Liquid Tension]

I've been absent lately in here, but if the Sox are able to incorporate Crisp in the deal and pull this off, I'll tip my hat and say go with God to both teams. I can't imagine the Twinks wanting him, he seems like a garbage player to me, and if the Sox can spin a spare part into Johan, more power to them.I'll stand by my belief that Johan is spotty in cold weather climes. The Change is a feel pitch, and I think that effect is diminished. He never pitched well at Yankee stadium in postseason(small sample) and he's a typical slow starter(a better example). If I'm him, do I really want to be pushing for the Hall of Fame when I could hang a change in Boston and face rough weather for almost half of my home games? I also can't see Boston paying him, but I'll take it at the face value right now that he looks like he'll land there. I know we've had whispers in here, but I'll state it outright, I'll predict he is in the downside and we've seen the best of Johan. Not to say he won't be a marvelously effective Cy Young contender for the next 5 years, but I think the ball is rolling down the other side of the hill now based on last years numbers. He's terrific and if he were a free agent, break the bank for him. But don't mortage the future. I'd rather roll the dice on CC or Bedard on the market in a year or two.

The last time Santana pitched in Yankee stadium in the playoffs, he threw 7 innings of shutout ball, and got the win.Based on last years numbers, you are still getting one of the best pitcher in baseball. His 1.07 WHIP was better, by a decent margin over the other Cy Young candidates. Same goes for his 235 strikeouts.I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

I really like Peavy (as I rode him to my baseball title), but Santana would be the pitcher I would want over every other pitcher. the main reason for me is that Santana has pitched in the AL

 

[Liquid Tension]

I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

Josh BeckettJustin VerlanderFausto CarmonaFelix HernandezBrandon WebbFrancisco Liriano if he comes back healthyThere are probably others. Not saying any of those guys are better than Santana, but I'd bet one or two of them will have a better five year stretch going forward.

Yeah, but would you take any of these pitchers over the next 5 years? The answer should be no

 

[Pat Patriot]

If the Twins do insist on Ellsbury or Bucholz, I would like to see if the Sox could get Bedard from Baltimore for Lester, Masterson and others. I like Bedard a lot and he wouldnt cost nearly as much as Santana. I'm not sure how Baltimore feels about trading in division. I think it has a been awhile since they have traded with Boston.

 

[Alias]

Interesting take on why the twins are so eager to go after Ellsbury:

I think we are looking at the Ellsbury/Lester vs Hughes/Cabrera strictly from a baseball perspective. As such we see the Hughes / Cabrera tandem as a greater value on the field. I'm not so sure the Twins are looking at the options through the same lens. I offer the following, not as a reason to make the trade, just as a possible reason why Ellsbury is so desired by the Twins.Ellsbury, as a Native American, may open an untapped portion of the fanbase for the Twins. The Native American population in New England is only slightly above 40,000, but it is over 200,000 in the 5 state Twins market:MN - 54,967WI - 47,228SD - 62,283ND - 31,329IO - 8,989With the difference in onfield skills / cost not that significant, this may well be what is driving the Twins to covet Ellsbury as their primary target. I know he is Navajo and not from a plains tribe, but I can't see that being a deterent to a marketing campaign geared toward this ethnic group.

 

[the moops]

I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

Josh BeckettJustin VerlanderFausto CarmonaFelix HernandezBrandon WebbFrancisco Liriano if he comes back healthyThere are probably others. Not saying any of those guys are better than Santana, but I'd bet one or two of them will have a better five year stretch going forward.

Yeah, but would you take any of these pitchers over the next 5 years? The answer should be no

Exactly. Of course there will be pitchers who have better years than Santana. Just as there has been almost every year for the past 5 years. But to predict which pitcher will have a better 5 year stretch in the future is ner impossible. All those on the list have more question marks than Santana.If you are allowed to bet the field, of course that is the wise bet. But if I had to pick one guy, I would think that Santana or Peavy would have the greatest likelihood.

 

[the moops]

Interesting take on why the twins are so eager to go after Ellsbury:

I think we are looking at the Ellsbury/Lester vs Hughes/Cabrera strictly from a baseball perspective. As such we see the Hughes / Cabrera tandem as a greater value on the field. I'm not so sure the Twins are looking at the options through the same lens. I offer the following, not as a reason to make the trade, just as a possible reason why Ellsbury is so desired by the Twins.Ellsbury, as a Native American, may open an untapped portion of the fanbase for the Twins. The Native American population in New England is only slightly above 40,000, but it is over 200,000 in the 5 state Twins market:MN - 54,967WI - 47,228SD - 62,283ND - 31,329IO - 8,989With the difference in onfield skills / cost not that significant, this may well be what is driving the Twins to covet Ellsbury as their primary target. I know he is Navajo and not from a plains tribe, but I can't see that being a deterent to a marketing campaign geared toward this ethnic group.

I dont know. The native population is barely above 1%. It is also the poorest of any minority group (for sure in Minnesota, guessing on the other states). Not sure how much marketing (ie. selling stuff) is going to happen, and what good it would do.More likely, they would want Ellsbury simply because he has the chance at being a much better ballplayer than Melky Cabrera.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

I've been absent lately in here, but if the Sox are able to incorporate Crisp in the deal and pull this off, I'll tip my hat and say go with God to both teams. I can't imagine the Twinks wanting him, he seems like a garbage player to me, and if the Sox can spin a spare part into Johan, more power to them.I'll stand by my belief that Johan is spotty in cold weather climes. The Change is a feel pitch, and I think that effect is diminished. He never pitched well at Yankee stadium in postseason(small sample) and he's a typical slow starter(a better example). If I'm him, do I really want to be pushing for the Hall of Fame when I could hang a change in Boston and face rough weather for almost half of my home games? I also can't see Boston paying him, but I'll take it at the face value right now that he looks like he'll land there. I know we've had whispers in here, but I'll state it outright, I'll predict he is in the downside and we've seen the best of Johan. Not to say he won't be a marvelously effective Cy Young contender for the next 5 years, but I think the ball is rolling down the other side of the hill now based on last years numbers. He's terrific and if he were a free agent, break the bank for him. But don't mortage the future. I'd rather roll the dice on CC or Bedard on the market in a year or two.

The last time Santana pitched in Yankee stadium in the playoffs, he threw 7 innings of shutout ball, and got the win.Based on last years numbers, you are still getting one of the best pitcher in baseball. His 1.07 WHIP was better, by a decent margin over the other Cy Young candidates. Same goes for his 235 strikeouts.I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

You are quite right about this, my bad

 

[Michael Brown]

I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

Josh BeckettJustin VerlanderFausto CarmonaFelix HernandezBrandon WebbFrancisco Liriano if he comes back healthyThere are probably others. Not saying any of those guys are better than Santana, but I'd bet one or two of them will have a better five year stretch going forward.

Yeah, but would you take any of these pitchers over the next 5 years? The answer should be no

Exactly. Of course there will be pitchers who have better years than Santana. Just as there has been almost every year for the past 5 years. But to predict which pitcher will have a better 5 year stretch in the future is ner impossible. All those on the list have more question marks than Santana.If you are allowed to bet the field, of course that is the wise bet. But if I had to pick one guy, I would think that Santana or Peavy would have the greatest likelihood.

Just my two cents, but I'd take Beckett over anyone for the next 5 years.

 

[Gopher State]

Santana status quo: Suitors' pitches fall short

The two-time Cy Young winner didn't draw an offer solid enough to trigger a deal, but plenty more bidding is expected.

By La Velle E. Neal III, Star Tribune

The Twins on Friday prepared to head to Nashville for Major League Baseball's winter meetings without an offer for lefthander Johan Santana that impressed them but with new developments in place.

A key one: The New York Daily News reported Friday that the Yankees are willing to include prized righthander Phillip Hughes in their offer.

Trade talks about the Twins' two-time Cy Young winner are expected to heat up Sunday as clubs arrive at the Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center for the meetings, which officially start on Monday. The Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Angels, Dodgers and Mariners are the clubs known to have shown interest in Santana, who has the right to veto any deal and likely would want a contract extension before agreeing to one.

"I can't predict the future," said Twins General Manager Bill Smith, who declined to discuss trades and contract negotiations. "We're constantly going forward and constantly talking to clubs about ways to improve this ballclub."

The Red Sox and Yankees have been the most actively interested clubs.

In the case of the Red Sox, indications are the Twins will not agree to a deal that includes center fielder Coco Crisp instead of hot prospect Jacoby Ellsbury. They'd work on a Crisp deal separately but prefer Ellsbury and either righthander Clay Buchholz or lefthander Jon Lester as part of a four-player package. Other prospects mentioned in talks with Boston include shortstop Jed Lowrie, outfielder Brandon Moss and righthanders Michael Bowden and Justin Masterson.

The Yankees would raise the stakes if they package Hughes, righthander Ian Kennedy and outfielder Melky Cabrera. The Twins had not received that offer as of Friday afternoon.

The Twins would like to fill holes in center field, third base and probably shortstop. Smith added Friday that finding a second left-handed reliever to help Dennys Reyes is a possibility."

La Velle E. Neal III • lneal@startribune.com

 

[Gopher State]

I think the Red Sox have offered Crisp, Lester, Masterson, Bowden and Lowrie for Santana and one minor leage TBD. The Sox definitely pull the trigger on this deal if they are confident they can sign Santana long term. I truly feel the only reason Boston has even entered this scene is to force the Yankees to give up one of their top pitching prospects to secure Santana. Prior to the Sox interest, the Yankees said no way to Hughes or Joba in a deal for Santana but now have said to be willing to part with Hughes in the deal. As a Sox fan I would love to see them get Santana as it would give them the most dominant staff seen in years but as one other post stated the list of potential Sox players could fill the bible LOLI think it is a great move to throw a realistic offer on the table in hopes of either landing Santana or at the very least driving the price up for him. So far the Sox offer I posted above is the best offer on the table so far for Santana, but the young steinbrenner will make his poppa proud and do whatever it takes to land this monster arm. The yankees would be stupid to trade Cano as one post stated earlier. I don't like the Yankees but there isn't much not to like with that kids swing.And as far as Haren, he is a stud but Beane is smoking crack

The Twins will not make the deal with the Red Sox if Crisp is part of the deal. If Boston wants Santana their going to have to let Ellsbury go. Heading into Sunday it looks like the Yankees are sweeting the pot the most for Santana.

 

[Sammy3469]

Interesting take on why the twins are so eager to go after Ellsbury:

I think we are looking at the Ellsbury/Lester vs Hughes/Cabrera strictly from a baseball perspective. As such we see the Hughes / Cabrera tandem as a greater value on the field. I'm not so sure the Twins are looking at the options through the same lens. I offer the following, not as a reason to make the trade, just as a possible reason why Ellsbury is so desired by the Twins.Ellsbury, as a Native American, may open an untapped portion of the fanbase for the Twins. The Native American population in New England is only slightly above 40,000, but it is over 200,000 in the 5 state Twins market:MN - 54,967WI - 47,228SD - 62,283ND - 31,329IO - 8,989With the difference in onfield skills / cost not that significant, this may well be what is driving the Twins to covet Ellsbury as their primary target. I know he is Navajo and not from a plains tribe, but I can't see that being a deterent to a marketing campaign geared toward this ethnic group.

I dont know. The native population is barely above 1%. It is also the poorest of any minority group (for sure in Minnesota, guessing on the other states). Not sure how much marketing (ie. selling stuff) is going to happen, and what good it would do.More likely, they would want Ellsbury simply because he has the chance at being a much better ballplayer than Melky Cabrera.

He's also cost controlled for longer.

 

[Finless]

If they want Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester and 4 other prospects, that price is too steep. I wouldn't want to give all those guys up and sign Santana to a 6 year contract. Hell no. Say what you want about dominance, blah, blah, blah. Throw the stats out there. I would not want to see the socks mortgage their future for a 6 year albatross contract on a pitcher. I don't care who it is. #### Johan. Hope fully the Yanks can pick him up. Hughes and Melky aren't going to get it done.

 

[the moops]

If they want Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester and 4 other prospects, that price is too steep. I wouldn't want to give all those guys up and sign Santana to a 6 year contract. Hell no. Say what you want about dominance, blah, blah, blah. Throw the stats out there. I would not want to see the socks mortgage their future for a 6 year albatross contract on a pitcher. I don't care who it is. #### Johan. Hope fully the Yanks can pick him up. Hughes and Melky aren't going to get it done.

I dont think anyone has stated that it would be Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester + 4 other prospects. I think the major components would be either Ellsbury/Lester, or Crisp/Buchholz/Lowrie. After that, I would think that there would be a pitcher thrown in (probably not a Masterson or Bowden).If I were the Twins would want the Crisp/Buccholz/Lowrie over the Ellsbury/Lester deal. Gives them a CF, potential ace, and a 3B. But everyone seems to have a huge hard-on for Ellsbury, so I would guess they would prefer that one. Getting their CF and a middle rotation guy in Lester.I dont know how anyone who is a Red Sox fan can argue that they hope the Yankees get him. If they give up Hughes/Cabrera/Tabata and get Sanatana they will be a far better team next year and for the foreseeable future.

 

[Finless]

If they want Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester and 4 other prospects, that price is too steep. I wouldn't want to give all those guys up and sign Santana to a 6 year contract. Hell no. Say what you want about dominance, blah, blah, blah. Throw the stats out there. I would not want to see the socks mortgage their future for a 6 year albatross contract on a pitcher. I don't care who it is. #### Johan. Hope fully the Yanks can pick him up. Hughes and Melky aren't going to get it done.

I dont think anyone has stated that it would be Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester + 4 other prospects. I think the major components would be either Ellsbury/Lester, or Crisp/Buchholz/Lowrie. After that, I would think that there would be a pitcher thrown in (probably not a Masterson or Bowden).If I were the Twins would want the Crisp/Buccholz/Lowrie over the Ellsbury/Lester deal. Gives them a CF, potential ace, and a 3B. But everyone seems to have a huge hard-on for Ellsbury, so I would guess they would prefer that one. Getting their CF and a middle rotation guy in Lester.

I dont know how anyone who is a Red Sox fan can argue that they hope the Yankees get him. If they give up Hughes/Cabrera/Tabata and get Sanatana they will be a far better team next year and for the foreseeable future.

No Ellsbury, no deal. They want Ellsbury and Buchholz+ or Ellsbury, Lester and 3 other prospects. No pitcher is worth that much. I'd love to see Santana in Red Sox but not at that price. Pitchers break down. It happens all the time. I already like the Sox rotation. Maybe (not likely the O's will dish) they'll make a move for Bedard.My thoughts about the Yankees getting him is, it's us or them and I hope the Sox don't pay the price. The Angels may have some shells but I don't see them spending more than the Yanks. If the deal got done with Ellsbury and Lester I'd be okay with that but not Buchholz and Ellsbury. The Twins are playing both sides going back and forth and eventually that will be the asking price and Theo won't take the bait. He may drive it to the point where the Yanks have to dish Cano to get it done and if that happens they will.

The Yanks have already stated that they "can not let Boston get Santana". That they have to do it and can't hope another team does. Give the Yanks Santana and I still like Boston's chances. Mission accomplished for the Sox. If they aren't getting Johan they will at least make sure the Yanks are giving up some serious chips and adding another monster contract. I guess it's not exactly a bad thing to have arguably the best pitcher in baseball and the best position player locked up...barring injury.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

Josh BeckettJustin VerlanderFausto CarmonaFelix HernandezBrandon WebbFrancisco Liriano if he comes back healthyThere are probably others. Not saying any of those guys are better than Santana, but I'd bet one or two of them will have a better five year stretch going forward.

Yeah, but would you take any of these pitchers over the next 5 years? The answer should be no

Exactly. Of course there will be pitchers who have better years than Santana. Just as there has been almost every year for the past 5 years. But to predict which pitcher will have a better 5 year stretch in the future is ner impossible. All those on the list have more question marks than Santana.If you are allowed to bet the field, of course that is the wise bet. But if I had to pick one guy, I would think that Santana or Peavy would have the greatest likelihood.

Since I can control all the variables in this scenario I take Beckett, Verlander, and Peavy over Santana given age, ability, and potential. Also salary wise they are much more friendly.

 

[the moops]

I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

Josh BeckettJustin VerlanderFausto CarmonaFelix HernandezBrandon WebbFrancisco Liriano if he comes back healthyThere are probably others. Not saying any of those guys are better than Santana, but I'd bet one or two of them will have a better five year stretch going forward.

Yeah, but would you take any of these pitchers over the next 5 years? The answer should be no

Exactly. Of course there will be pitchers who have better years than Santana. Just as there has been almost every year for the past 5 years. But to predict which pitcher will have a better 5 year stretch in the future is ner impossible. All those on the list have more question marks than Santana.If you are allowed to bet the field, of course that is the wise bet. But if I had to pick one guy, I would think that Santana or Peavy would have the greatest likelihood.

Since I can control all the variables in this scenario I take Beckett, Verlander, and Peavy over Santana given age, ability, and potential. Also salary wise they are much more friendly.

Fair enough.I'd probably go Peavy, Santana, Verlander, Beckett....in that order.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

If I'm the Yanks, I call the Twinks bluff. I don't think Johan wants to go to Boston, he wants to go to NY, and the Mets don't have the pitching. If someone from the field emerges, the only one who could sign him I feel is the Halos. I hate to get into the competition of the rivalary, but keeping him OUT of Boston would be huge. I see no reason to include Hughes, and I'd love to see them sack up and pull Kennedy out of the deal and make them pick through the Melancons, Hornes and Sanchez's of the world.

Johan is the hidden X factor here. If he's not willing to sign with an average team, then he goes to market and the Yanks bag him then, or he says he'll only go to NY and the Yanks garbage is better than the Mets gold and the Twins have to deal him.

 

[topjimmy]

I am honestly surprised that the Mets aren't trying much harder to land santana. If I am the Sox there is no way I trade Elsbury, he is a great young talent. I think in the end the yankees will part with hughes and cabrera and land santana. I truly think that the twins need to sign this guy long term. If you aren't going to make this guy your #1 and sign him long tern then who?? I am a huge Red Sox fan but I truly hope that neither the yanksees or the Sox get him, for baseball. They really need to fix the league. It is getting ridiculous. I am a monster Sox fan and have been my entire life but we have turned into the thing I hated most about the yankees I hate to admit.

Johan either stays put or goes to the A's, Rangers, or Phillies would be awesome but it will never happen

 

[David Yudkin]

If they want Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester and 4 other prospects, that price is too steep. I wouldn't want to give all those guys up and sign Santana to a 6 year contract. Hell no. Say what you want about dominance, blah, blah, blah. Throw the stats out there. I would not want to see the socks mortgage their future for a 6 year albatross contract on a pitcher. I don't care who it is. #### Johan. Hope fully the Yanks can pick him up. Hughes and Melky aren't going to get it done.

I dont think anyone has stated that it would be Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester + 4 other prospects. I think the major components would be either Ellsbury/Lester, or Crisp/Buchholz/Lowrie. After that, I would think that there would be a pitcher thrown in (probably not a Masterson or Bowden).If I were the Twins would want the Crisp/Buccholz/Lowrie over the Ellsbury/Lester deal. Gives them a CF, potential ace, and a 3B. But everyone seems to have a huge hard-on for Ellsbury, so I would guess they would prefer that one. Getting their CF and a middle rotation guy in Lester.I dont know how anyone who is a Red Sox fan can argue that they hope the Yankees get him. If they give up Hughes/Cabrera/Tabata and get Sanatana they will be a far better team next year and for the foreseeable future.

What if the Twinkies want Hughes/Cano/Cabrera?

 

[topjimmy]

I think there is no way the yankees should part with cano. I truly despise the yankees but that kid has the sweetest swing since carew

 

[shadyridr]

If they want Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester and 4 other prospects, that price is too steep. I wouldn't want to give all those guys up and sign Santana to a 6 year contract. Hell no. Say what you want about dominance, blah, blah, blah. Throw the stats out there. I would not want to see the socks mortgage their future for a 6 year albatross contract on a pitcher. I don't care who it is. #### Johan. Hope fully the Yanks can pick him up. Hughes and Melky aren't going to get it done.

I dont think anyone has stated that it would be Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester + 4 other prospects. I think the major components would be either Ellsbury/Lester, or Crisp/Buchholz/Lowrie. After that, I would think that there would be a pitcher thrown in (probably not a Masterson or Bowden).If I were the Twins would want the Crisp/Buccholz/Lowrie over the Ellsbury/Lester deal. Gives them a CF, potential ace, and a 3B. But everyone seems to have a huge hard-on for Ellsbury, so I would guess they would prefer that one. Getting their CF and a middle rotation guy in Lester.I dont know how anyone who is a Red Sox fan can argue that they hope the Yankees get him. If they give up Hughes/Cabrera/Tabata and get Sanatana they will be a far better team next year and for the foreseeable future.

What if the Twinkies want Hughes/Cano/Cabrera?

0 chance yanks part with cano

 

[AmpLee]

I am honestly surprised that the Mets aren't trying much harder to land santana. If I am the Sox there is no way I trade Elsbury, he is a great young talent. I think in the end the yankees will part with hughes and cabrera and land santana. I truly think that the twins need to sign this guy long term. If you aren't going to make this guy your #1 and sign him long tern then who?? I am a huge Red Sox fan but I truly hope that neither the yanksees or the Sox get him, for baseball. They really need to fix the league. It is getting ridiculous. I am a monster Sox fan and have been my entire life but we have turned into the thing I hated most about the yankees I hate to admit.Johan either stays put or goes to the A's, Rangers, or Phillies would be awesome but it will never happen

Mets homer here....I think the mets really want him but I don't think they have the players to get the deal done......The best they can offer is Pelfry, Humber,Gomez and some blue chip AA guys....Unless they wanna throw in Reyes (which Omar said he won't do), then I can't see the Mets topping the Yanks,Boston, Angels and Dodgers...

 

[Gopher State]

Baseball's winter meetings: Big deals brewing

With the cost of signing free agents skyrocketing, teams are expected to do much trade-talking this week in Nashville, and the Twins hold the biggest trading card in the deck in Johan Santana.

By Joe Christensen, Star Tribune

Hank Steinbrenner set a whole new tone for the offseason this week, adding some spice and urgency with a simple, two-word answer.

Asked by the Associated Press whether the Twins would consider a trade for Johan Santana, Steinbrenner said, "Oh, yeah."

So much for the Twins' efforts to keep the Santana trade talks quiet.

Yankees owner George Steinbrenner has shifted to the background, but his oldest son, Hank, has emerged as the new boss, in every sense of the word.

When Alex Rodriguez opted out of his contract with the Yankees, Hank said, "Does he want to go into the Hall of Fame as a Yankee, or a Toledo Mud Hen?"

Rodriguez eventually came crawling back, and now the Yankees want Santana to join him.

Imagine the brash Steinbrenner scion wheeling and dealing with humble new Twins General Manager Bill Smith, and you sense the changing dynamics at work as baseball begins its annual winter meetings today in Nashville.

Smith is one of seven new general managers throughout the sport, and Hank Steinbrenner isn't the only bigwig disregarding baseball's tampering rules, which prohibit officials from commenting on other team's players.

This week, Angels owner Arte Moreno ripped the Marlins for not finishing a deal for third baseman Miguel Cabrera, saying, "I've felt we had a deal with them twice."

Giants GM Brian Sabean went on to question the Marlins' intentions, saying he wondered if they would do a deal unless it was heavily one-sided in their favor.

Baseball fans eat this stuff up, of course. There's been no shortage of hot stove news.

A weak free-agent class has created a perfect storm for a trading bonanza at the winter meetings, former Dodgers General Manager Fred Claire said.

Writing a recent column for mlb.com, Claire polled general managers about the trading climate, and Astros GM Ed Wade responded, "I can envision every team making at least one significant move."

Every team.

For several years, the winter meetings have been dominated by free-agent news.

Now, Claire said, in a telephone interview, "If you look at the free-agent market, the cream has been taken off the top. Whether it's A-Rod or [Mike] Lowell or Torii Hunter, the top players are gone."

So the teams with potential trade commodities are the ones drawing all the attention.

The Twins are front and center. With Santana and Joe Nathan to dangle, Smith will be one of the most sought-after figures at the Opryland Hotel.

Scott Boras, eat your heart out.

"Anybody who knows Bill or spends five minutes with Bill knows that he's a pretty grounded individual," Twins President Dave St. Peter said. "He's also somebody who has a quiet confidence about him but isn't easily flustered."

Smith has been bombarded with phone calls since the team announced he would replace longtime GM Terry Ryan in mid-September.

It wasn't until this week, however, that Smith began putting his stamp on the team.

The trade that sent shortstop Jason Bartlett, Matt Garza and Eduardo Morlan to the Rays for Delmon Young, Brendan Harris and Jason Pridie was a head-turner. As respected as Ryan is, some baseball insiders suspect he wouldn't have made that deal, giving up young pitching talent for a player with a troubled past.

"That's a good sign for Bill Smith because he has already pulled the trigger," said former Blue Jays manager Buck Martinez, now a baseball co-host on XM Radio. "He has his hands full right now with Santana and Nathan and losing Torii Hunter, but he still has a pretty good core of a baseball team."

Ryan remains a prominent part of Smith's inner circle, along with Vice President of Player Personnel Mike Radcliff, assistant GM Rob Antony and pro scouting coordinator Vern Followell.

All of them will be in Nashville, just as they were all in Orlando a month ago for the annual GM meetings. There, the Twins told teams their goal was to sign Santana, not trade him.

But the tone changed a couple of weeks later, when the Twins offered Santana a four-year, $80 million extension and were told they were short by two years and at least $40 million.

Every story out of Minny(lot of rummors of course, but some fact) lists the Yankees being very interested in Santana, also the talk of including Nathan in a deal is now coming up. How much would a team part with for Santana/Nathan combo? IMO the talk of other teams, especially Boston being in the running will drive up the price the Yankees pay, if Boston somehow gets Santana with their current pitching staff, what hope do the Yankees have (discounting injuries) of over taking Boston. This whole situation reminds me of when my wife wanted the new BMW (which I felt I could not afford) the more we talked about it and the more she looked at it the more she wanted it. The Yankees are doing the same thing the more they think about Boston getting Santana, the more they want him, and they realize the more they are going to have to give up more then they want. This next week is going to be interesting, I sure Mr. Smith will be in demand.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the Twins were looking for a young starter, a 3B, lefty reliever and maybe a shortstop.

I hadnt seen Lefty reliever mentioned as a need previously.

What about Lester, Okajima (great contract for next year), Lowrie and Crisp (or another lesser prospect). The Sox could then put Clay Bucholz in the Joba Chamberlain set up role for a year. The Sox have so many starters after resigning Schilling it makes sense to make Bucholz a power reliever for a year until Schilling retires.

I really dont believe the Sox will trade Ellsbury. They have had a hole at Leadoff since Damon left and really look at Ellsbury as the answer for the forseable future.

Thoughts?

 

[the moops]

If I'm the Yanks, I call the Twinks bluff. I don't think Johan wants to go to Boston, he wants to go to NY, and the Mets don't have the pitching. If someone from the field emerges, the only one who could sign him I feel is the Halos. I hate to get into the competition of the rivalary, but keeping him OUT of Boston would be huge. I see no reason to include Hughes, and I'd love to see them sack up and pull Kennedy out of the deal and make them pick through the Melancons, Hornes and Sanchez's of the world. Johan is the hidden X factor here. If he's not willing to sign with an average team, then he goes to market and the Yanks bag him then, or he says he'll only go to NY and the Yanks garbage is better than the Mets gold and the Twins have to deal him.

Are you joking?You think the Yankees can get Santana without including either Hughes or Kennedy? And you think so, because you think Johan just really wants to pitch in NY and not Boston? Good god man.Melancon, Horne and Sanchez! What a joke.

 

[shadyridr]

The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III believes the Yankees are now offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy in return for Johan Santana.He also says the Twins are no longer interested in a Red Sox package that includes Coco Crisp rather than Jacoby Ellsbury. If both of his beliefs are true, then it would seem as though the a trade between the Twins and Yankees would get done any day now. However, Neal goes on to say that he thinks the Mets are backing down on not offering Jose Reyes and that Santana might prefer the NL to the AL. Color us skeptical about everything presented here. Dec. 1 - 3:32 pm et

So now theyre bidding against themselves? Damn this is starting to piss me off. Im fine with Hughes, Cabrera, and a lesser prospect but Kennedy too?

 

[shadyridr]

The New York Yankees may now be the frontrunners in the Johan Santana sweepstakes.

Following internal discussions among front-office executives, the Yankees on Saturday offered young right-hander Phil Hughes in a three-player package for the Twins' ace. Outfielder Melky Cabrera and a third prospect would also be included in the trade.

The third prospect will not be pitchers Ian Kennedy or Alan Horne or outfielder Jose Tabada.

If the Twins accept the offer, it is believed the Yankees will come to terms with Santana on a five- or six-year extension worth more than $20 million per season.

The Yankees had been offering a package leading with Kennedy and Cabrera, but Minnesota insisted that Hughes be included. The Yankees made Joba Chamberlain off limits, but it appears the Twins will settle for Hughes if the other pieces are right.

The Boston Red Sox are having similar debates in their own front office over two players the Twins have requested from them -- outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury and pitcher Clay Buchholz. But it appears that the Red Sox are unlikely to surrender either Ellsbury or Buchholz, two highly-coveted players.

The Red Sox are proposing a four-player package that includes young left-hander Jon Lester, center fielder Coco Crisp and minor-league shortstop Jed Lowrie. While the Twins showed interest in Crisp earlier in anticipation of losing Torii Hunter, they appear steadfast in their request that either Ellsbury or Buchholz be included in the package for Lester.

The Yankees, Red Sox and Los Angeles Dodgers are believed to be the most active pursuers of Santana, whose contract expires after the 2008 season. Any acquiring team would have to get Santana's blessing, as he has a full no-trade clause. They'd also want to try to lock him up to a long-term deal before a trade can be completed.

New York senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Friday outside Legends Field, the Yankees' spring training complex, that the team will not be publicly addressing negotiations with Minnesota.

"Anything said at this point, and I expect the other people in the organization to follow suit, you never know how it affects whatever, especially with other teams we're dealing with," Steinbrenner said. "It's just no comment for now. At this point, until we get something done or don't get something done on whatever we're looking to do, it's kind of as far as I'm concerned a lockdown now."

The Yankees could finalize contracts with third baseman Alex Rodriguez, closer Mariano Rivera and backup catcher Jose Molina after next week's winter meetings in Nashville, Tenn.

"Everything is going smooth with all three of those guys," Steinbrenner said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

[Alias]

If I'm the Yanks, I call the Twinks bluff. I don't think Johan wants to go to Boston, he wants to go to NY, and the Mets don't have the pitching. If someone from the field emerges, the only one who could sign him I feel is the Halos. I hate to get into the competition of the rivalary, but keeping him OUT of Boston would be huge. I see no reason to include Hughes, and I'd love to see them sack up and pull Kennedy out of the deal and make them pick through the Melancons, Hornes and Sanchez's of the world. Johan is the hidden X factor here. If he's not willing to sign with an average team, then he goes to market and the Yanks bag him then, or he says he'll only go to NY and the Yanks garbage is better than the Mets gold and the Twins have to deal him.

Are you joking?You think the Yankees can get Santana without including either Hughes or Kennedy? And you think so, because you think Johan just really wants to pitch in NY and not Boston? Good god man.Melancon, Horne and Sanchez! What a joke.

Yeah I laughed too. Johan and Papi are buddies.

 

[ack34]

If it's Hughes, Cabrera and another pitcher not named Joba or Kennedy, I would think the Yankees HAVE to pull the trigger.

You have to give up something to get something and Hughes, while having a tremendous upside, will have a difficult time producing Santana's #'s over the next 6-8 years.

I like Hughes more than Lester and if he is the prize of the Red Sox deal, it is lacking (cabrera and crisp are basically a wash).

 

[Liquid Tension]

Interesting take on why the twins are so eager to go after Ellsbury:

I think we are looking at the Ellsbury/Lester vs Hughes/Cabrera strictly from a baseball perspective. As such we see the Hughes / Cabrera tandem as a greater value on the field. I'm not so sure the Twins are looking at the options through the same lens. I offer the following, not as a reason to make the trade, just as a possible reason why Ellsbury is so desired by the Twins.Ellsbury, as a Native American, may open an untapped portion of the fanbase for the Twins. The Native American population in New England is only slightly above 40,000, but it is over 200,000 in the 5 state Twins market:MN - 54,967WI - 47,228SD - 62,283ND - 31,329IO - 8,989With the difference in onfield skills / cost not that significant, this may well be what is driving the Twins to covet Ellsbury as their primary target. I know he is Navajo and not from a plains tribe, but I can't see that being a deterent to a marketing campaign geared toward this ethnic group.

I dont know. The native population is barely above 1%. It is also the poorest of any minority group (for sure in Minnesota, guessing on the other states). Not sure how much marketing (ie. selling stuff) is going to happen, and what good it would do.More likely, they would want Ellsbury simply because he has the chance at being a much better ballplayer than Melky Cabrera.

Right back at you...I agree!

 

[Liquid Tension]

I dont know of another pitcher I would want for the next 5 years. I suppose Jake Peavy, but he is the only one.

Josh BeckettJustin VerlanderFausto CarmonaFelix HernandezBrandon WebbFrancisco Liriano if he comes back healthyThere are probably others. Not saying any of those guys are better than Santana, but I'd bet one or two of them will have a better five year stretch going forward.

Yeah, but would you take any of these pitchers over the next 5 years? The answer should be no

Exactly. Of course there will be pitchers who have better years than Santana. Just as there has been almost every year for the past 5 years. But to predict which pitcher will have a better 5 year stretch in the future is ner impossible. All those on the list have more question marks than Santana.If you are allowed to bet the field, of course that is the wise bet. But if I had to pick one guy, I would think that Santana or Peavy would have the greatest likelihood.

Since I can control all the variables in this scenario I take Beckett, Verlander, and Peavy over Santana given age, ability, and potential. Also salary wise they are much more friendly.

Fair enough.I'd probably go Peavy, Santana, Verlander, Beckett....in that order.

Santana heads this list for me. I like Peavy as I said before but NL pitchers going to the AL have a higher failure rate. And before you throw some examples of guys who have handled the switch, I could throw 3 at you for every one you look at. Not only that look at how much better guys like Clemens did when he went to the NL. If you are good in the AL you have a greater chance of being good on an NL team compared to being good in the NL and coming to an AL team.Peavy is really good but I gave you my reasons for sticking with Santana, but Verlander has had two good years but none were as good as Santana's Off year this year. Beckett pitched great this year and I like him a lot, but people forget how poor he was just one year ago. If I had to choose a guy his name is Santana. He is also a lefty which adds value to the Yanks considering they have no lefties in the pen (amazingly)

 

[Liquid Tension]

If they want Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester and 4 other prospects, that price is too steep. I wouldn't want to give all those guys up and sign Santana to a 6 year contract. Hell no. Say what you want about dominance, blah, blah, blah. Throw the stats out there. I would not want to see the socks mortgage their future for a 6 year albatross contract on a pitcher. I don't care who it is. #### Johan. Hope fully the Yanks can pick him up. Hughes and Melky aren't going to get it done.

I dont think anyone has stated that it would be Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester + 4 other prospects. I think the major components would be either Ellsbury/Lester, or Crisp/Buchholz/Lowrie. After that, I would think that there would be a pitcher thrown in (probably not a Masterson or Bowden).If I were the Twins would want the Crisp/Buccholz/Lowrie over the Ellsbury/Lester deal. Gives them a CF, potential ace, and a 3B. But everyone seems to have a huge hard-on for Ellsbury, so I would guess they would prefer that one. Getting their CF and a middle rotation guy in Lester.I dont know how anyone who is a Red Sox fan can argue that they hope the Yankees get him. If they give up Hughes/Cabrera/Tabata and get Sanatana they will be a far better team next year and for the foreseeable future.

What if the Twinkies want Hughes/Cano/Cabrera?

They do, but they will not get it. From what I read the Twins #1 prospect is Hughes. If true then the Yanks will give Hughes, Melky and another minor leaguer and get it done.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III believes the Yankees are now offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy in return for Johan Santana.He also says the Twins are no longer interested in a Red Sox package that includes Coco Crisp rather than Jacoby Ellsbury. If both of his beliefs are true, then it would seem as though the a trade between the Twins and Yankees would get done any day now. However, Neal goes on to say that he thinks the Mets are backing down on not offering Jose Reyes and that Santana might prefer the NL to the AL. Color us skeptical about everything presented here. Dec. 1 - 3:32 pm et

So now theyre bidding against themselves? Damn this is starting to piss me off. Im fine with Hughes, Cabrera, and a lesser prospect but Kennedy too?

Relax Shady, this articled is wrong at almost every turn

 

[Pat Patriot]

If they want Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester and 4 other prospects, that price is too steep. I wouldn't want to give all those guys up and sign Santana to a 6 year contract. Hell no. Say what you want about dominance, blah, blah, blah. Throw the stats out there. I would not want to see the socks mortgage their future for a 6 year albatross contract on a pitcher. I don't care who it is. #### Johan. Hope fully the Yanks can pick him up. Hughes and Melky aren't going to get it done.

I dont think anyone has stated that it would be Ellsbury, Buchholz/Lester + 4 other prospects. I think the major components would be either Ellsbury/Lester, or Crisp/Buchholz/Lowrie. After that, I would think that there would be a pitcher thrown in (probably not a Masterson or Bowden).If I were the Twins would want the Crisp/Buccholz/Lowrie over the Ellsbury/Lester deal. Gives them a CF, potential ace, and a 3B. But everyone seems to have a huge hard-on for Ellsbury, so I would guess they would prefer that one. Getting their CF and a middle rotation guy in Lester.I dont know how anyone who is a Red Sox fan can argue that they hope the Yankees get him. If they give up Hughes/Cabrera/Tabata and get Sanatana they will be a far better team next year and for the foreseeable future.

What if the Twinkies want Hughes/Cano/Cabrera?

They do, but they will not get it. From what I read the Twins #1 prospect is Hughes. If true then the Yanks will give Hughes, Melky and another minor leaguer and get it done.

Do the Twins like Hughes better than Buchholz or is it just that the Sox have not offered Buchholz?

 

[Pat Patriot]

The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III believes the Yankees are now offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy in return for Johan Santana.

He also says the Twins are no longer interested in a Red Sox package that includes Coco Crisp rather than Jacoby Ellsbury. If both of his beliefs are true, then it would seem as though the a trade between the Twins and Yankees would get done any day now. However, Neal goes on to say that he thinks the Mets are backing down on not offering Jose Reyes and that Santana might prefer the NL to the AL. Color us skeptical about everything presented here. Dec. 1 - 3:32 pm et

So now theyre bidding against themselves? Damn this is starting to piss me off. Im fine with Hughes, Cabrera, and a lesser prospect but Kennedy too?

First day as a Yankees fan? How do you think Clemens ended up with a pro-rated $28 million a year?And before you say it, yes the Red Sox are Yankees lite as they bid against themselves in paying a $51 million posting fee for Dice K.

 

[shadyridr]

The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III believes the Yankees are now offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy in return for Johan Santana.

He also says the Twins are no longer interested in a Red Sox package that includes Coco Crisp rather than Jacoby Ellsbury. If both of his beliefs are true, then it would seem as though the a trade between the Twins and Yankees would get done any day now. However, Neal goes on to say that he thinks the Mets are backing down on not offering Jose Reyes and that Santana might prefer the NL to the AL. Color us skeptical about everything presented here. Dec. 1 - 3:32 pm et

So now theyre bidding against themselves? Damn this is starting to piss me off. Im fine with Hughes, Cabrera, and a lesser prospect but Kennedy too?

Relax Shady, this articled is wrong at almost every turn

The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III essentially admitted he was guessing when he reported the Yankees were offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy to the Twins for Johan Santana.

Neal apparently had no inside info here, so there's still no reason to think the Yankees are willing to part with both Hughes and Kennedy. FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal said this afternoon that the Twins are targeting right-hander Alan Horne or defensive-minded shortstop Alberto Gonzalez as the third player along with Hughes and Cabrera. In his latest blog, ESPN's Peter Gammons seems to think it's almost a given that the trade will be completed. Dec. 1 - 5:39 pm et

 

[shadyridr]

The Minneapolis Star Tribune's Lavelle E. Neal III believes the Yankees are now offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy in return for Johan Santana.

He also says the Twins are no longer interested in a Red Sox package that includes Coco Crisp rather than Jacoby Ellsbury. If both of his beliefs are true, then it would seem as though the a trade between the Twins and Yankees would get done any day now. However, Neal goes on to say that he thinks the Mets are backing down on not offering Jose Reyes and that Santana might prefer the NL to the AL. Color us skeptical about everything presented here. Dec. 1 - 3:32 pm et

So now theyre bidding against themselves? Damn this is starting to piss me off. Im fine with Hughes, Cabrera, and a lesser prospect but Kennedy too?

First day as a Yankees fan? How do you think Clemens ended up with a pro-rated $28 million a year?And before you say it, yes the Red Sox are Yankees lite as they bid against themselves in paying a $51 million posting fee for Dice K.

They bid against themselves moneywise all the time. Im talking about in terms of prospects.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Peavy is really good but I gave you my reasons for sticking with Santana, but Verlander has had two good years but none were as good as Santana's Off year this year.

You might want to consider that Verlander is 24, has 35 career wins, finished 5th and 7th in the Cy Young in his first two full seasons, throws 100 with a nasty 12-6 curve, and then look at what Santana did before he was 25. I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Sammy3469]

I'll be completely shocked if a deal of Hughes, Cabrera, and a fouth tier prospect (I actually have no clue what A Gonzalez is since he's so low in the pecking order) get the deal done.

 

[Bogart]

If I'm the Yanks, I call the Twinks bluff. I don't think Johan wants to go to Boston, he wants to go to NY, and the Mets don't have the pitching. If someone from the field emerges, the only one who could sign him I feel is the Halos. I hate to get into the competition of the rivalary, but keeping him OUT of Boston would be huge. I see no reason to include Hughes, and I'd love to see them sack up and pull Kennedy out of the deal and make them pick through the Melancons, Hornes and Sanchez's of the world.

Johan is the hidden X factor here. If he's not willing to sign with an average team, then he goes to market and the Yanks bag him then, or he says he'll only go to NY and the Yanks garbage is better than the Mets gold and the Twins have to deal him.

GB Yankee fans.

 

[DropKick]

If I'm the Yanks, I call the Twinks bluff. I don't think Johan wants to go to Boston, he wants to go to NY, and the Mets don't have the pitching. If someone from the field emerges, the only one who could sign him I feel is the Halos. I hate to get into the competition of the rivalary, but keeping him OUT of Boston would be huge. I see no reason to include Hughes, and I'd love to see them sack up and pull Kennedy out of the deal and make them pick through the Melancons, Hornes and Sanchez's of the world.

Johan is the hidden X factor here. If he's not willing to sign with an average team, then he goes to market and the Yanks bag him then, or he says he'll only go to NY and the Yanks garbage is better than the Mets gold and the Twins have to deal him.

GB Yankee fans.

The way this logic is going it will be a crate of last week's oranges for Santana.

 

[cobalt_27]

If I'm the Yanks, I call the Twinks bluff. I don't think Johan wants to go to Boston, he wants to go to NY, and the Mets don't have the pitching. If someone from the field emerges, the only one who could sign him I feel is the Halos. I hate to get into the competition of the rivalary, but keeping him OUT of Boston would be huge. I see no reason to include Hughes, and I'd love to see them sack up and pull Kennedy out of the deal and make them pick through the Melancons, Hornes and Sanchez's of the world.

Johan is the hidden X factor here. If he's not willing to sign with an average team, then he goes to market and the Yanks bag him then, or he says he'll only go to NY and the Yanks garbage is better than the Mets gold and the Twins have to deal him.

GB Yankee fans.

The way this logic is going it will be a crate of last week's oranges for Santana.

My fellow Yankee brethren are deluded, as per usual. We're going to pay through the nose for Santana. Minnesota's in the driver's seat here, not us.

 

[Alias]

probably more spin by Minnesota PR machine...

According to a person close to the Twins' negotiations, the club will take a hard line in trade talks involving Santana during this week's winter meetings in Nashville. And that means -- no matter how certain it has seemed that Santana will be traded -- that the club would be comfortable entering the 2008 season with their two-time Cy Young Award winner in the rotation if no offer is good enough.The source said the Twins have made their demands clear to the Red Sox, Yankees and other clubs interested in Santana and they will not compromise. They are willing to risk trying to deal Santana in July, when the return could be less, or even risk watching him walk away as a free agent after the season, with only draft picks as compensation.That means either outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury or righthander Clay Buchholz must be added to Boston's offer, which is believed to include lefthander Jon Lester and shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie. The Twins feel the fleet Ellsbury could develop into a force at the top of their order. The word on Saturday was that the Red Sox and Twins were set for a key evening meeting.The Twins' stance means the Yankees must provide a package that includes center fielder Melky Cabrera and righthanded phenom Phillip Hughes and perhaps even righthanded prospect Ian Kennedy. Hughes and Kennedy, if they wind up in Minnesota, would go right into the Twins' rotation. The Twins think Cabrera is a solid player, not with Ellsbury's ceiling, but solid. And more players (Jose Tabata?) could be involved.