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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Henry Ford
- Start date
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I do mostly tax planning, some work on deals and controversy. Most time spent writing tax opinions; otherwise, doing research.
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Most of them spend their days actually working.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I'll allow it. And then probably explain why you're wrong, but allow it.Hooper31 said:
T Bell
Footballguy
You don't just get to back out of this thread. You're committed now.
If you want out you need to file a motion with the icourt, supported by declarations.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
If she didn't want to post in here, she shouldn't have appeared. I'm not letting her out until she finds substitute counsel.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
no difference until you pass the bar.
T Bell
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I'm a CPA (ANAL). We deal with attorneys fairly regularly from all across the spectrum....big law, large local, international, all the way down to the small guys. I kinda just wonder what they do every day. In my younger days I'd thought about going back to law school for tax law, but I don't have any desire to do that anymore.Tax lawyers? Seriously? I've never known a tax lawyer to be wed to a time of year, or are you just talking about people who deal in individual income taxes? Aren't those generally...accountants?Right. Which is why I want to know what the #### they're doing this time of year....
I oversaw tax at my last job but was no tax lawyer. In that I'm generally dealing with M&A, our tax lawyers are generally structuring deals. Also I worked a lot with people who helped us with our international tax restructuring, researching and helping us set up structures that eventually comprised Singapore and Luxembourg as our primary vehicles. What kind of day-to-day are you talking about?
krista4
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Don't make me hold you in contempt of Ford
timschochet
Footballguy
Actually I have nothing but respect for most lawyers. Going to law school and passing the bar are real accomplishments. I considered it but was too lazy (and probably not smart enough.)
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I think I'm appointing Mr. Roboto as our bailiff. It just sounds right.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Mr. Roboto, please remove this person.
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krista4
Footballguy
Don't want to ask the ones you know as you think it might seem offensive? You're going to get very different answers from the groups you mention (as you know since I'm sure you interact with them in different types of situations). I've tended only to interact with BigLaw or in only one case, in- house (don't see many tax lawyers in-house). My impression was tons of research, plus they write and rewrite the parts of securities documents like prospectuses and M&A documents that none of the rest of us read. In M&A they can end up doing a lot of work getting letter rulings and the like, too. I did a Reverse Morris Trust deal (everyone scurries out of the thread), for instance, that was heavily dependent upon this element.I'm a CPA (ANAL). We deal with attorneys fairly regularly from all across the spectrum....big law, large local, international, all the way down to the small guys. I kinda just wonder what they do every day. In my younger days I'd thought about going back to law school for tax law, but I don't have any desire to do that anymore.Tax lawyers? Seriously? I've never known a tax lawyer to be wed to a time of year, or are you just talking about people who deal in individual income taxes? Aren't those generally...accountants?Right. Which is why I want to know what the #### they're doing this time of year....
I oversaw tax at my last job but was no tax lawyer. In that I'm generally dealing with M&A, our tax lawyers are generally structuring deals. Also I worked a lot with people who helped us with our international tax restructuring, researching and helping us set up structures that eventually comprised Singapore and Luxembourg as our primary vehicles. What kind of day-to-day are you talking about?
mr roboto
Footballguy
I'm game. Especially if I get to use cuffs. ANAL
timschochet
Footballguy
There arent any real estate lawyers here though are there? RE lawyers bug the #### out of me. I can't count the number of times I had a deal about to be signed, eagerly waiting for a big fat commission, and some dumb #### RE lawyer jumps in and screws everything up.
-fish-
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
that's because lawyers despise real estate agents of all kinds, and unlike most of the public, we have the ability to #### with them.
timschochet
Footballguy
And you exercise that ability every chance you get.
timschochet
Footballguy
Commercial.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Hi, guys. You guys talking about laws?
krista4
Footballguy
Gotcha. I guess I can understand why commercial agents and lawyers hate each other.
timschochet
Footballguy
It's not really hate. My best friend is an RE lawyer. But even he can be annoying at times.
T Bell
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
what you're describing is unethical behavior. An attorney engaging in unethical behavior does not do so because the profession made him.instead, it is far more likely that the attorney was unethical before joining the profession.Hooper31 said:
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
also, believing that my opinion of my profession after practicing for many years is probably more informed than your opinion of my profession after being involved in two lawsuits does not make me pre programmed.
Hooper, I am not a lawyer but I work closely with them and I can tell you straight out that most lawyers absolutely prefer to settle rather than go to court. That doesn't mean that either side will capitulate just to avoid trial but if there's a settlement to be had they'll take it with pleasure. Doesn't mean there aren't evil, money hungry, jackholes out there but most are out to help their client more than to aggrandize themselves
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Hey all.
T Bell
Footballguy
There's a spectrum of talents and temperaments and ethics among lawyers just as there is in any other profession and in humanity in general.Hooper31 said:
As with most people, lawyers are influenced by a variety of factors in how they handle cases. Some see themselves as crusaders (and generally these types are a royal PIA to deal with), while others are pragmatists. Some are indeed milking cases/clients for all the fees they can get; others just suck at evaluating cases and so they, plagued by self-doubt or confusion, default to being "tough litigators" who don't agree to anything.
Your anecdotes are just that, anecdotes, and I have no reason to disbelieve them having seen in my own practice examples of those sorts of cases. Typically, however, it's a combination of the client and the economics of the case that drives this from the lawyer's perspective. If they can recover attorneys fees as part of the recoverable damages, for example, they tend to litigate more aggressively. Ditto for having clients who can pay (big law takes advantage of this all the time and is known for papering the hell out of cases for deep-pocketed clients and doing little to drive the case along.
My experience is that the most efficient litigators tend to be plaintiffs lawyers working on contingency (who won't get paid unless/until they settle or prevail at trial), and (believe it or not) insurance defense counsel who, while getting paid by insurance carriers, also nowadays tend to get hounded about their billing by the ever-more common and aggressive billing auditors. I've worked in both capacities. Good lawyers push cases along to conclusion, and just because a lawyer doesn't agree with you that settling a case makes sense, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're unreasonable.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I disagree with the idiotic and insulting suggestion that lawyers violate an oath they took when joining the profession as a result of working on an hourly basis. Also with your spelling of the word slimy.Hooper31 said:
Lawyers are, for the most part, the most ethical group of people you will run across. Bar none. A profession filled with people who don't give in to the most obvious of temptations over and over and over again. Are there exceptions? Of course. But let me give you an example.
Right now, today, I am a signatory on an account with more money in it than most people will ever make in their lives. And that their children will ever make in their lives. If I wrote a check on that account, the bank would call one person to verify whether the check was legit: me. The persons who are entitled to that money have no idea how much originally went in, not how much they are entitled to yet.
I could write myself a check for seven figures, and in all likelihood, no one would ever have any idea that it was gone. I could write myself a check for eight figures, get that money in cash, and be in Belize before anyone knew it was gone. That is never, ever going to happen.
Now hand that authority over to your gardener.
-fish-
Footballguy
Most "litigators" rarely go to trial...mostly because it's hard, and it cuts into profits.
And because juries aren't all that reliable.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Sorry to hear your insulting notions about lawyers aren't popular in a thread full of lawyers. Don't let the door hit you too hard.Hooper31 said:
-fish-
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
BAR NONE!!!Hooper31 said:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Name me another profession you'd allow to have a check for several million dollars written to on your behalf and assume you'll be getting it, other than your actual bank.
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