The NFL has a serious issue with PI, illegal contact... (1 Viewer)

[cgh3rd]

I watch as many games as I can can every week. I saw at least a 1/2 dozen clear pass interference penalties not called this week alone. There is an unbelievable amount of illegal contact going on that is not being called after making such a big deal about it a couple of years ago. The roughing the passer calls are also out of control. One moment the ref is saying a late arm push down is roughing and the next play the QB is buried well after the ball is gone illegally and nothing is called. It is like they are all guessing.

Is it really that hard to get these officials to make consistent calls? Contact before the ball arrives is pass interference. Contact past 5 yards is illegal. The roughing calls are so inconsistent within the same game. I'm not for more penalties because the players will adjust if you enforce the rules consistently. I'm just for consistency.

It is nuts how you see some of the really minor infractions enforced to the letter but obviously big time infractions are ignored.

I hope the league can fix this stuff before it cost a team a playoff game or worse.

 

[dotman]

The Panthers-Eagles game was one of the best officiated games I've ever seen. All calls were consistent, for both sides, the entire game; it was a physical game. I agree other games have been bad but on this Monday night they got it right.

 

[cgh3rd]

The refs consistently blew calls. Getting it wrong consistently doesn't make it correct. Keyshawn was contacted with the ball in the air. There numerous other times of illegal contact throughout the game. Contact is illegal after 5 yards. Yet it goes on without being called. Why don't they back off of false start calls in the same way? They call that every single time without exception. Why should illegal contact be ruled differently?

 

[Swamprat]

 

[Bri]

I watch as many games as I can can every week. I saw at least a 1/2 dozen clear pass interference penalties not called this week alone.

Not?Wow that surprised me.I feel like I've seen a ton of "are you kidding me, they barely touched at all" type PI calls. A little while back when the Pats played the Bears, if Berrian went deep there was a PI. This past weekend Samuel got hit with one. Cotchery and Coles have gotten their share with the Jets....

 

[Bri]

The roughing the passer calls are also out of control.

You can't breathe on em' some weeks, other weeks they ref correctly IMO and it seems to throw the players "off". I've seen way too many hugs this year. A couple steps earlier they'd have launched their shoulder toward em'. A good second is gift to a QB.I didn't see it but apparently that Kiwi play is perfect. He thought the play was over and he sacked Young, instead Young got a first and eventually won.

 

[MarcO]

I watch as many games as I can can every week. I saw at least a 1/2 dozen clear pass interference penalties not called this week alone. There is an unbelievable amount of illegal contact going on that is not being called after making such a big deal about it a couple of years ago. The roughing the passer calls are also out of control. One moment the ref is saying a late arm push down is roughing and the next play the QB is buried well after the ball is gone illegally and nothing is called. It is like they are all guessing.

Is it really that hard to get these officials to make consistent calls? Contact before the ball arrives is pass interference. Contact past 5 yards is illegal. The roughing calls are so inconsistent within the same game. I'm not for more penalties because the players will adjust if you enforce the rules consistently. I'm just for consistency.

It is nuts how you see some of the really minor infractions enforced to the letter but obviously big time infractions are ignored.

I hope the league can fix this stuff before it cost a team a playoff game or worse.

With regard to the PI calls - it can never be that simple... Have you ever played defensive back or WR? There will ALWAYS be contact, and not all contact can be illegal otherwise it would ruin the game. There are certain things the DB cannot do (i.e. face guard) and certain things tha he must do (i.e. turn around and play the ball) but everything else MUST be a judgement call. The refs must judge whether the contact was illegal or just normal contact when trying to make a play, so mistakes will be made. As for the roughing - I'm with you - there is too much inconsistency.

 

[thayman]

I don't think the PI calls have been that bad this year. The roughing the QB calls are getting a little extreme, I understand why the rule is in place, and I suppose it is fair for all teams since it is a league wide rule. But I just really enjoy big hits....

 

[Emmitt Smith]

The roughing the passer penalties are indeed way out of control. I'm guessing some of the inconsistancy can be chalked up to diifferent officiating crews and their individual take on the rule. The game is also not played in slow motion.

My biggest concern and I haven't heard or seen it mentioned is that if the NFL continues to want the QB's to not be touched at all, that it will absolutly change the game in a dramatic fasion. If QB's don't have to worry about getting their neck broke, they will stand in the pocket much longer with no fear. I think this will dramatically effect passing statitics as well.

Hitting the QB to rattle him has been a part of football forever. Imagine if QB's like Elway, Montana, and Johney U never took some of the shots they had to take.

 

[bryhamm]

The refs consistently blew calls. Getting it wrong consistently doesn't make it correct. Keyshawn was contacted with the ball in the air. There numerous other times of illegal contact throughout the game. Contact is illegal after 5 yards. Yet it goes on without being called. Why don't they back off of false start calls in the same way? They call that every single time without exception. Why should illegal contact be ruled differently?

I asked about this in the MNF thread ... can you bump when the ball is in the air if it is within 5 yds?

 

[BGP]

I suppose there could be a crackdown on roughing the passer rules this season resulting from Carson Palmer's injury in the playoffs last January.

 

[Wilbur Wood]

The refs consistently blew calls. Getting it wrong consistently doesn't make it correct. Keyshawn was contacted with the ball in the air. There numerous other times of illegal contact throughout the game. Contact is illegal after 5 yards. Yet it goes on without being called. Why don't they back off of false start calls in the same way? They call that every single time without exception. Why should illegal contact be ruled differently?

I asked about this in the MNF thread ... can you bump when the ball is in the air if it is within 5 yds?

NO, it is PI if the ball is in the air regardless of how far downfield the targetted receiver is.

 

[gzilla]

I watch as many games as I can can every week. I saw at least a 1/2 dozen clear pass interference penalties not called this week alone. There is an unbelievable amount of illegal contact going on that is not being called after making such a big deal about it a couple of years ago. The roughing the passer calls are also out of control. One moment the ref is saying a late arm push down is roughing and the next play the QB is buried well after the ball is gone illegally and nothing is called. It is like they are all guessing.Is it really that hard to get these officials to make consistent calls? Contact before the ball arrives is pass interference. Contact past 5 yards is illegal. The roughing calls are so inconsistent within the same game. I'm not for more penalties because the players will adjust if you enforce the rules consistently. I'm just for consistency.It is nuts how you see some of the really minor infractions enforced to the letter but obviously big time infractions are ignored. I hope the league can fix this stuff before it cost a team a playoff game or worse.

I agree with you on the roughing the passer issue. I totally disagree with you on the pass interference / illegal contact issue. The last thing I want is the NFL making more ticky tack calls downfield. The flag should come out when the defensive player has given up leverage and makes contact to gain an advantage. If he chucks the guy an extra yard downfield, I don't think we should be seeing a flag.BTW, that play in the end zone with Keyshaun was a good no call IMO. That was good defense.

 

[bryhamm]

The refs consistently blew calls. Getting it wrong consistently doesn't make it correct. Keyshawn was contacted with the ball in the air. There numerous other times of illegal contact throughout the game. Contact is illegal after 5 yards. Yet it goes on without being called. Why don't they back off of false start calls in the same way? They call that every single time without exception. Why should illegal contact be ruled differently?

I asked about this in the MNF thread ... can you bump when the ball is in the air if it is within 5 yds?

NO, it is PI if the ball is in the air regardless of how far downfield the targetted receiver is.

Then that was clearly PI on the Philly defender last night.

 

[Godsbrother]

I suppose there could be a crackdown on roughing the passer rules this season resulting from Carson Palmer's injury in the playoffs last January.

I have heard more than one commentator say this year that even under the current roughing the passer rules, the hit on Carson Palmer last season would still not be roughing the passer. I don't know if technically they are right but I am sure it would have drawn the flag this season. There was a Steelers game this year where DE Aaron Smith fell down and grabbed Drew Brees' foot. Brees was able to complete the pass without problem and then looked down at Smith as if to say "please let go of my shoe" and a flag was thrown. Brees never came close to being tackled, let alone injured, so it was more than a bit silly to hear the ref say "roughing the passer".

On a related note I have noticed that refs seem to base a lot of calls on which QB is taking the hit. I could be off base here but it seems like high profile QBs such as Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, etc. get more roughing calls than a QB like Charlie Frye does.

 

[Godsbrother]

I agree with you on the roughing the passer issue. I totally disagree with you on the pass interference / illegal contact issue. The last thing I want is the NFL making more ticky tack calls downfield. The flag should come out when the defensive player has given up leverage and makes contact to gain an advantage. If he chucks the guy an extra yard downfield, I don't think we should be seeing a flag.BTW, that play in the end zone with Keyshaun was a good no call IMO. That was good defense.

 

[BoltBacker]

The refs consistently blew calls. Getting it wrong consistently doesn't make it correct. Keyshawn was contacted with the ball in the air. There numerous other times of illegal contact throughout the game. Contact is illegal after 5 yards. Yet it goes on without being called. Why don't they back off of false start calls in the same way? They call that every single time without exception. Why should illegal contact be ruled differently?

I asked about this in the MNF thread ... can you bump when the ball is in the air if it is within 5 yds?

NO, it is PI if the ball is in the air regardless of how far downfield the targetted receiver is.

Then that was clearly PI on the Philly defender last night.

Doesn't really matter if the play starts at the 7 yard line and the receiver is being bumped at the goal-line anyway. It's a bad call.... but no worse than about 1/2 the strikes in a MLB game or 1/2 the fouls in an NBA game. I may be alone but I think NFL officials are the best in sports. Trying to watch for 5 or more guys to make sure they aren't holding on a given play is tough to do. A lot tougher than an umpire being completely focused on whether a ball is in the strike-zone or not... and completely blowing the call.I'll agree that the league has a problem with roughing the passer but if anyone can remember the Montana days this is nothing new. The announcers would make it seem like Montana was a genius for running to the sidelines and at the last minute turning up field for an extra 5-10 yards just before stepping out. Defenders were damned if they do, damned if they don't. If Montana see's a guy get real close he puts half a cleat out of bounds and it's a flag if anyone touched him.

 

[PsychoMan]

What the crap was up with the roughing penalty called on Urlacher when he pushed the QB just after he threw the pass?

The ref stated that the player "flexed his muscles when he pushed the quarterback" or something to that effect - I can't remember the exact quote.

Who else saw this play ? Did it seem as ridiculous to you as it did to me?

 

[brettdj]

Quick guildeline to what the Football officials look for in determining PI

Hook and turn: A defensive player cannot use his arm as a hook and turn the offensive player around, preventing him from catching a pass.

Not playing the ball: Defensive players must make an attempt to turn and look for the ball when making contact with an offensive player.

Playing through the back: A defensive player cannot come over an offensive player's back to try and catch a pass.

Cutoff: A defender who is not playing the ball cannot cross into the path of a receiver and make contact.

Arm bar: A defensive player cannot put his forearm across an offensive player's chest and restrict him getting to the ball or raising his arms.

Grabbing the arm: This is similar to holding. A defensive player cannot clutch a receiver's hands or arms.

These are what we(officials) look for to determine PI or incidental contact.

 

[BoulderBob]

What is the reasoning behind the NFL's ticky-tack roughing the passer rule? Simply to protect high-profile investments?

 

[brettdj]

What is the reasoning behind the NFL's ticky-tack roughing the passer rule? Simply to protect high-profile investments?

Owners have big dollars tied up in starting QBs. 2nd string QBs do not excite the fans very often. $$$$$$

 

[NYCGangGreen]

This is the NFL. These guys get paid to be the best at their position. The QB's of the 70's and 80's would get leveled game after game, and still put up some pretty good careers. I agree hitting a QB around the knees should be flagged if intentional, but how can a lineman / linebacker, who has been coached to be physically aggressive since high school suddenly give up on a play.

Take the Urlacher penalty this week, Johnson is scrambling to find anyone open...Urlacher is chasing him down at full speed and then just as he gets there Johnson throws the ball, Urlacher doesn't crush him, but gives a little push...Johnson falls down and the flag comes in a good 6 seconds after.

Now thats just ruining the defense from playing at the level they should. If a RB can get piled on, a WR sandwiched in the air while catching a ball...then it's only fair that a QB should have to take a hit now and then. Even some of these sacks are touch football style.

I can only imagine how fast a flag would have been thrown had Kiwanuka actually sacked Young.

And Mike Perriera and his lame ### explanation of "can't drive a QB to the ground with your body", um...isnt that the definition of a perfect tackle???

Once you have to start arm tackling QB's it's over, guys like McNair, McNabb, Young...and even the likes of Brunell a few years back can get out of an arm tackle.

The QB's today are physically larger for the most part, then QB's of old...if they can't take a hit....go play a different sport. I want to watch football, not some fairy touch game.

Neck to Quads should be open season on QB's and then teams might have to actually gameplan....and make some of these coaches have to control their team.

 

[bkerney]

The Eagles defender clearly gained an advantage last night with the "chuck" on Keyshaun. Personally, I didn't care the Panthers lost, but I felt bad for them considering I though the Philly DB got away with a penalty.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

I didnt see anything on the final Carolina play that constituted PI. And I was cheering for CAR. They even went thru it in slow motion explaining why it WASNT PI.

 

[FFdork]

NO, it is PI if the ball is in the air regardless of how far downfield the targetted receiver is.

This is the one they seem to miss a lot. CB is playing tight coverage and looks to jam on what ends up being a quick-hitter and is making contact while the ball is in the air. I don't see it called PI very often.