Hip drop tackle: what is it? Should it be a penalty? Will the refs even be able to identify and call it correctly? (1 Viewer)

[Ilov80s]

Well the hip drop tackle is now officially banned.

If you don't understand what a hip drop tackle is, and why it needed to go...don't worry, the football guys will handle it

Sounds like lip service, like the lowering the helmet rule that is rarely called. If they want to look at it the week after the game that is OK. Fans don't want another long stoppage of play and more penalties. If they deem it to be a fine on Wednesday after the game so be it.


Troy Vincent: The violation will result in a 15-yard penalty if flagged in games, Vincent, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations, strongly implied that it is likely to be enforced similarly to the "use of helmet" rule, which typically leads to warning letters and fines in the week after a game rather than flags during play.

Ok that’s better imo

Agreed.

My remaining concern will be acting.

All a player will have to do to draw the penalty flag +15 is to limp off the field after such a tackle. Refs will have no choice but to enforce it.

QBs take dives all the time to draw roughing calls. This will go down exactly the same way. That's my prediction

Certainly possible. Another reason I hate the idea of it being called in game by on the field refs. This will for sure be a mess.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

It's not rocket surgery gentlemen...the football guys will take care of it. There's always going to be bad calls from time to time, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be any rules in football.

 

[JohnnyU]

It's not rocket surgery gentlemen...the football guys will take care of it. There's always going to be bad calls from time to time, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be any rules in football.

Sorry, but it’s rocket science or brain surgery.

 

[Da Guru]

Vontaze Burfict hit Le'Veon Bell with the nastiest hip drop tackle. With clear malicious intent, Burfict celebrated right afterwards as Bell lay on the ground with his knee folded in half.

I have to give it to Vontaze, he was effective as they come playing for keeps, especially in an era where the game is supposed to be cleaned up.

Vontaze Burfict took out Ben Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown and Le'Veon Bell all in the same season...The Killer B Killa!

i was watching that game live, When Burflict tackled Bell nobody knew what a hip drop was, announcers did not know, doubt Burfict even knew what it was. They just called it a tackle.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Players ACLS get blown up from head on and side tackles

And non-contact as well.

I don’t think ACL is the main injury risk from a hip drop. Andrews and Pollard both had fibula fractures and torn up ankles.

I’d love to see a full list of hip drop tackles and the result/injury rate.

It would be even more interesting to see a list of all other tackles and the result/injury rate so we could compare the two.

What would you estimate the ratio to be for hip drop vs all other types of tackles?

What’s an unacceptable variance? Greater than 3%?

I’d love to see a data driven proposal to know if this is actually even a problem that needs to be addressed before putting in another rule to confuse the refs & players.

There’s the often-quoted study that said this form of tackle is 20-25 times more likely to cause injury. https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profo...-tackles-is-20-25-times-that-of-other-tackles

I don’t know the value of that study and have not looked in detail. I’ve also read a review of the past two seasons that found there are very few tackles that would be flagged. It’s not a common occurrence. I personally don’t think it’s very confusing. It’s not a normal looking tackle and you pretty much have to be intentional about it to execute a hip drop. Agree that refs might have some initial difficulty with it.

Also proven that artificial turf has 35-40% more knee and ankle injuries than grass fields. Thats a well know fact, not a rumor. Also the game is faster on turf that leads to more violent collisions. Should this be a topic for the rules committee?

Non contact injuries on turf.

It should be, but it would cost a lot of owners a lot of money, so it won't happen. More proof that player safety isn't as important as they'd like to portray it to be.

 

[Max Power]

I think this is going to be a tough thing to coach out. You can still tackle someone and land on their legs as long as you don't twist. You can also twist to bring someone down but not land on their legs and that's ok.

I see this being extra hard for DL as well. They can't land on a QB, so they've been twisting when they wrap up, but now they have to be extra careful not to land on their legs.

Can't go high, can't go too low, can't use all their body weight and now have to be careful when twisting.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

Vontaze Burfict hit Le'Veon Bell with the nastiest hip drop tackle. With clear malicious intent, Burfict celebrated right afterwards as Bell lay on the ground with his knee folded in half.

I have to give it to Vontaze, he was effective as they come playing for keeps, especially in an era where the game is supposed to be cleaned up.

Vontaze Burfict took out Ben Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown and Le'Veon Bell all in the same season...The Killer B Killa!

i was watching that game live, When Burflict tackled Bell nobody knew what a hip drop was, announcers did not know, doubt Burfict even knew what it was. They just called it a tackle.

I was too. It may not have had a specific name known to Burfict, but he was fully aware of the damage it could inflict, in my oppinion.

Witnessing the tackle, and realizing what I was seeing, only made me more aware of the risk for injury. I viewed the hip drop tackle as one of just two ways to easily and unnecessarily inflict an injury on a player that still existed in football legally...I'm so glad it's gone. When I saw the replay of Logan Wilson's tackle on Mark Andrews I was immediately dissapointed with Wilson for using the technique. Keep in mind that I'm a Bengals fan calling out two Bengals players here.

The last player safety change that needs to be implented is protection on a receiver's plant leg from the knee down when they are defenseless. I'm sure the same people are again going to claim this makes it impossible to play defense and tackle, but everything above the knee and below the shoulders is still an adequate hit box. Not to mention a wild idea of perhaps trying to prioritize making a play on the football.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Can't go high, can't go too low, can't use all their body weight and now have to be careful when twisting.

And people will wonder why these guys can’t tackle. None of this is taught for years leading up to this level and than it all has to be relearned at the highest level.

The writing is obviously on the wall. They want this to be more like the NBA where it’s all offense and very little defense.

They’ll say it’s in the name of safety while scheduling more games on Christmas Day so teams have very little rest lol

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

Too many people are being overly emotional about the concept of defenders not getting a free pass to inflict injury on offensive players.

Did you guys have that same energy when chop blocks and crackback blocks were taken away from the offense?

 

[Todem]

I have seen three so called hip drop tackles in the Lion game already and missed most of the second quarter. 2 by Lions one by Bears.

But no legs were involved.

This shouldn't even have a name. It's called a tackle. The same way we all used to tackle in the back yard.

The difference is guys hip dropping and leg whipping their entire body weight on the back side of the ball carrier are not 5’ 100 pounds playing football in their backyard.

They are 250 pound ripped LB’s who are destroying careers.

All for this banning on that horrific take down tackle.....it’s basically a lower leg horse collar. It has ruined careers.

And I am one who feels the physicality of the game has been reigned in a tad too much.......but this tackle is vicious, dirty and now thankfully....illegal.

Great decision by the rules committee for once.

I also like the new kickoff rule they are trying out for this year......this will make the kick return an actual play again instead of every ball sailing thru the end zone or a fair catch......it was a joke last season. I am all for more action on special teams. Let’s see how it works.

 

[Todem]

Can't go high, can't go too low, can't use all their body weight and now have to be careful when twisting.

And people will wonder why these guys can’t tackle. None of this is taught for years leading up to this level and than it all has to be relearned at the highest level.

The writing is obviously on the wall. They want this to be more like the NBA where it’s all offense and very little defense.

They’ll say it’s in the name of safety while scheduling more games on Christmas Day so teams have very little rest lol

You can go low....you just can’t throw your entire body weight down on the guys legs........if you can’t ankle tackle him from behind guess what.......you lose. Hit him when he is in front of you.


I am appalled at how some people can't see what those vicious those low hip swivel, leg whip tackles have evolved into. It’s brutal dirty.

No place for that. And all levels need to follow suit.

The high hitting.......I agree. I love seeing great tackling.....and sometimes flags are thrown that are total BS. But this particular tackle has been on the rise and the injuries caused by them have been career ending or career changing and not for the better.

It’s a smart move.

 

[Todem]

Too many people are being overly emotional about the concept of defenders not getting a free pass to inflict injury on offensive players.

Did you guys have that same energy when chop blocks and crackback blocks were taken away from the offense?

THANK YOU!!!!!!

 

[Todem]

Can't go high, can't go too low, can't use all their body weight and now have to be careful when twisting.

And people will wonder why these guys can’t tackle. None of this is taught for years leading up to this level and than it all has to be relearned at the highest level.

The writing is obviously on the wall. They want this to be more like the NBA where it’s all offense and very little defense.

They’ll say it’s in the name of safety while scheduling more games on Christmas Day so teams have very little rest lol

It’s been on the wall since Brady had his ACL taken out in 2008......come on man. This is nothing new. The game is nothing like it was when I was watching it in the 70’s/80’s/90’s.

Nothing like it at all.

 

[Todem]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

Right but the defenders are also super athletes. Would a rule banning this tackle make things more difficult for defenders? Sure. But there are already lots of rules that make things more challenging for defenders. The pros are getting paid a lot of money and have to play within whatever the NFL decides the rules are. It's not impossible to tackle someone from behind other ways.

When a guy is running away from you......dive at his legs and trip him up....slows up in front of you while you pursue.....wrap him up and take him down.

Don’t wrap his hips....and then leave your feet whipping all 250 pounds of your body weight onto his lower legs and backside.......that’s nuts. And it got so out fo control the last 5 or so years......why do you think they are banning it?

They have all the statistics in place before you see rule changes like this. This is not a knee jerk reaction.....they have probably a decade of data to support the rule change.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

@Todem it's refreshing to have an insightful perspective, thank you.

Brady's knee injury was 2008* jtlyk. Cheers mate.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Also... This hip-drop versus hip-drop-swivel discussion is even more of a joke. As if it won't be hard enough to enforce a "hip-drop" tackle, which is just a natural result of trying to tackle another player. Now the refs have to differentiate from the fictitious hip-drop tackle and the illegal hip-drop-swivel tackle.

This is a disaster in the making.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

Right but the defenders are also super athletes. Would a rule banning this tackle make things more difficult for defenders? Sure. But there are already lots of rules that make things more challenging for defenders. The pros are getting paid a lot of money and have to play within whatever the NFL decides the rules are. It's not impossible to tackle someone from behind other ways.

When a guy is running away from you......dive at his legs and trip him up....slows up in front of you while you pursue.....wrap him up and take him down.

Don’t wrap his hips....and then leave your feet whipping all 250 pounds of your body weight onto his lower legs and backside.......that’s nuts. And it got so out fo control the last 5 or so years......why do you think they are banning it?

They have all the statistics in place before you see rule changes like this. This is not a knee jerk reaction.....they have probably a decade of data to support the rule change.

I'm a bit confused by your post. Are you suggesting a defensive player should just let an offensive player run free if they get past the defense?

To me, I can't imagine defensive players making plays once an offensive player has gained an advantage. Once they are past some defenders, the only thing a defense can do is grab from behind.

 

[Da Guru]

Vontaze Burfict hit Le'Veon Bell with the nastiest hip drop tackle. With clear malicious intent, Burfict celebrated right afterwards as Bell lay on the ground with his knee folded in half.

I have to give it to Vontaze, he was effective as they come playing for keeps, especially in an era where the game is supposed to be cleaned up.

Vontaze Burfict took out Ben Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown and Le'Veon Bell all in the same season...The Killer B Killa!

i was watching that game live, When Burflict tackled Bell nobody knew what a hip drop was, announcers did not know, doubt Burfict even knew what it was. They just called it a tackle.

I was too. It may not have had a specific name known to Burfict, but he was fully aware of the damage it could inflict, in my oppinion.

Witnessing the tackle, and realizing what I was seeing, only made me more aware of the risk for injury. I viewed the hip drop tackle as one of just two ways to easily and unnecessarily inflict an injury on a player that still existed in football legally...I'm so glad it's gone. When I saw the replay of Logan Wilson's tackle on Mark Andrews I was immediately dissapointed with Wilson for using the technique. Keep in mind that I'm a Bengals fan calling out two Bengals players here.

The last player safety change that needs to be implented is protection on a receiver's plant leg from the knee down when they are defenseless. I'm sure the same people are again going to claim this makes it impossible to play defense and tackle, but everything above the knee and below the shoulders is still an adequate hit box. Not to mention a wild idea of perhaps trying to prioritize making a play on the football.

I am basing my opinion on the people who play the game, not my OP.

If you listen to the NFL defenders, the men who play the game not us..it is not a tackling "technique" it just happens when bodies are flying around and they are trying to tackle 250lb strong men who don`t want to be tackled. In the middle of a play they are not thinking about hip dropping a TE. A DB who is giving up 30-40 lbs has to use his body momentum to tackle bigger stronger players.

If called it will be 15 yards, the same as a late hit OB, or an unnecessary roughness, much less than a PI penalty. So it won`t be gone from the game as those happen multiple times a game.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

Right but the defenders are also super athletes. Would a rule banning this tackle make things more difficult for defenders? Sure. But there are already lots of rules that make things more challenging for defenders. The pros are getting paid a lot of money and have to play within whatever the NFL decides the rules are. It's not impossible to tackle someone from behind other ways.

When a guy is running away from you......dive at his legs and trip him up....slows up in front of you while you pursue.....wrap him up and take him down.

Don’t wrap his hips....and then leave your feet whipping all 250 pounds of your body weight onto his lower legs and backside.......that’s nuts. And it got so out fo control the last 5 or so years......why do you think they are banning it?

They have all the statistics in place before you see rule changes like this. This is not a knee jerk reaction.....they have probably a decade of data to support the rule change.

I'm a bit confused by your post. Are you suggesting a defensive player should just let an offensive player run free if they get past the defense?

To me, I can't imagine defensive players making plays once an offensive player has gained an advantage. Once they are past some defenders, the only thing a defense can do is grab from behind.

I feel like there's a ton of confusion in this discussion which is hopefully going to go away once the season gets underway. There will probably be a few close or controversial calls at some point, but its not going to fundamentally change anything. This type of tackle rarely happens and is easy to distinguish from a normal legal tackle. When people ask how a defender can make a tackle from behind, I think the answer is that they will make the tackle the same way they've always done it - the way they've all been trained. Grab, wrap and drop. Its not a normal tackling technique to swing your hips around and drop them down on the ball-carrier's legs - both of which are required by rule for it to be penalized.

It's common sense to me, but here's a twitter thread explaining it -- https://x.com/PFF_Sam/status/1772360281441685884?s=20

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

Right but the defenders are also super athletes. Would a rule banning this tackle make things more difficult for defenders? Sure. But there are already lots of rules that make things more challenging for defenders. The pros are getting paid a lot of money and have to play within whatever the NFL decides the rules are. It's not impossible to tackle someone from behind other ways.

When a guy is running away from you......dive at his legs and trip him up....slows up in front of you while you pursue.....wrap him up and take him down.

Don’t wrap his hips....and then leave your feet whipping all 250 pounds of your body weight onto his lower legs and backside.......that’s nuts. And it got so out fo control the last 5 or so years......why do you think they are banning it?

They have all the statistics in place before you see rule changes like this. This is not a knee jerk reaction.....they have probably a decade of data to support the rule change.

Congratulations. You just described the total difference between a tackle and a tackle. May as well hang flags on them at this point..

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

Right but the defenders are also super athletes. Would a rule banning this tackle make things more difficult for defenders? Sure. But there are already lots of rules that make things more challenging for defenders. The pros are getting paid a lot of money and have to play within whatever the NFL decides the rules are. It's not impossible to tackle someone from behind other ways.

When a guy is running away from you......dive at his legs and trip him up....slows up in front of you while you pursue.....wrap him up and take him down.

Don’t wrap his hips....and then leave your feet whipping all 250 pounds of your body weight onto his lower legs and backside.......that’s nuts. And it got so out fo control the last 5 or so years......why do you think they are banning it?

They have all the statistics in place before you see rule changes like this. This is not a knee jerk reaction.....they have probably a decade of data to support the rule change.

I'm a bit confused by your post. Are you suggesting a defensive player should just let an offensive player run free if they get past the defense?

To me, I can't imagine defensive players making plays once an offensive player has gained an advantage. Once they are past some defenders, the only thing a defense can do is grab from behind.

Exactly.

The hit on Mark Andrews was clean.

It’s football. It will never be safe.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Vontaze Burfict hit Le'Veon Bell with the nastiest hip drop tackle. With clear malicious intent, Burfict celebrated right afterwards as Bell lay on the ground with his knee folded in half.

I have to give it to Vontaze, he was effective as they come playing for keeps, especially in an era where the game is supposed to be cleaned up.

Vontaze Burfict took out Ben Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown and Le'Veon Bell all in the same season...The Killer B Killa!

i was watching that game live, When Burflict tackled Bell nobody knew what a hip drop was, announcers did not know, doubt Burfict even knew what it was. They just called it a tackle.

I was too. It may not have had a specific name known to Burfict, but he was fully aware of the damage it could inflict, in my oppinion.

Witnessing the tackle, and realizing what I was seeing, only made me more aware of the risk for injury. I viewed the hip drop tackle as one of just two ways to easily and unnecessarily inflict an injury on a player that still existed in football legally...I'm so glad it's gone. When I saw the replay of Logan Wilson's tackle on Mark Andrews I was immediately dissapointed with Wilson for using the technique. Keep in mind that I'm a Bengals fan calling out two Bengals players here.

The last player safety change that needs to be implented is protection on a receiver's plant leg from the knee down when they are defenseless. I'm sure the same people are again going to claim this makes it impossible to play defense and tackle, but everything above the knee and below the shoulders is still an adequate hit box. Not to mention a wild idea of perhaps trying to prioritize making a play on the football.

I am basing my opinion on the people who play the game, not my OP.

If you listen to the NFL defenders, the men who play the game not us..it is not a tackling "technique" it just happens when bodies are flying around and they are trying to tackle 250lb strong men who don`t want to be tackled. In the middle of a play they are not thinking about hip dropping a TE. A DB who is giving up 30-40 lbs has to use his body momentum to tackle bigger stronger players.

If called it will be 15 yards, the same as a late hit OB, or an unnecessary roughness, much less than a PI penalty. So it won`t be gone from the game as those happen multiple times a game.

Agree Players know the game better than any of us keyboard warriors. If it gets called 15 yards..whatever.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

I feel like there's a ton of confusion in this discussion which is hopefully going to go away once the season gets underway. There will probably be a few close or controversial calls at some point, but its not going to fundamentally change anything. This type of tackle rarely happens and is easy to distinguish from a normal legal tackle. When people ask how a defender can make a tackle from behind, I think the answer is that they will make the tackle the same way they've always done it - the way they've all been trained. Grab, wrap and drop. Its not a normal tackling technique to swing your hips around and drop them down on the ball-carrier's legs - both of which are required by rule for it to be penalized.

It's common sense to me, but here's a twitter thread explaining it -- https://x.com/PFF_Sam/status/1772360281441685884?s=20

Thank you for stating this so eloquently @CletiusMaximus

I suggest most of you take a deep breath, perhaps through your nose for a change, and take the time to read and absorb the knowledge my guy Cletus has laid out for us.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

In the middle of a play they are not thinking about hip dropping a TE

This is what most people can’t understand. These are the same ones who want a batter to “just hit it where they ain’t” when getting a 100 MPH fastball with a foot of run on it lol.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

if you can’t ankle tackle him from behind guess what.......you lose. Hit him when he is in front of you.

Oh is that all you have to do? Lol.

 

[Summer Wheat]

In the middle of a play they are not thinking about hip dropping a TE

This is what most people can’t understand. These are the same ones who want a batter to “just hit it where they ain’t” when getting a 100 MPH fastball with a foot of run on it lol.

Exactly...it is not a premediated act to injure, same as when a direct hit that shreds a knee is not premediated ..it is a reaction.

 

[Summer Wheat]

I feel like there's a ton of confusion in this discussion which is hopefully going to go away once the season gets underway. There will probably be a few close or controversial calls at some point, but its not going to fundamentally change anything. This type of tackle rarely happens and is easy to distinguish from a normal legal tackle. When people ask how a defender can make a tackle from behind, I think the answer is that they will make the tackle the same way they've always done it - the way they've all been trained. Grab, wrap and drop. Its not a normal tackling technique to swing your hips around and drop them down on the ball-carrier's legs - both of which are required by rule for it to be penalized.

It's common sense to me, but here's a twitter thread explaining it -- https://x.com/PFF_Sam/status/1772360281441685884?s=20

Thank you for stating this so eloquently @CletiusMaximus

I suggest most of you take a deep breath, perhaps through your nose for a change, and take the time to read and absorb the knowledge my guy Cletus has laid out for us.

I have been following this on Twitter and all the NFL players commenting. Many D players have said they have tackled this way before without even knowing they did. Sometimes it just happens. Reality is you can`t ban tackles, so it is not banned, it will just be a penalty if called.

Troy Vincent seems to think it will be a mid week call and fine and not impact the actual game and that is OK.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

For those of you that apparently have your finger on the pulse of the players, what does Ha Ha and Kool-Aid have to say about hip drop tackles?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Grab, wrap and drop. It’s not a normal tackling technique to swing your hips around and drop them down on the ball-carrier's legs - both of which are required by rule for it to be penalized.

You say the bolded as though physics doesn’t exist. Concepts like velocity, inertia, momentum, gravity. All the things happening inside of a trainwreck that is an NFL tackle.

Football is often played on slippery grass, outdoors. Players hit each each other violently at rapid rates of speed, and sometimes at odd angles - angles that cause the body to very normally flail around and land on other player’s body parts.

The Andrews tackle is the perfect example of such a tackle. Player coming in from behind, at an angle, at a high rate of speed in order prevent a touchdown. By grabbing and holding onto a still moving Andrews, there’s no way he would not have swung around and landed on him. Also Andrews pulling away pulled the defender on to him as well.

In real time it’s such a bang bang play and you can completely see how it happened, and how physics works.

Due respect, but the bolded is not reality.

 

[Todem]

Absolutely should be treated as a horse collar tackle. Don't need more elite players getting put on IR. Take a better angle.

Watch the play.

There no other angle to take. He makes the tackle or it’s a TD.

All of this 20-20 hindsight because Andrews got hurt.

there’s zero way they can officiate this tackle like “the horsecollar” - horsecollar has a very specific set of actions/criteria. Grabbing jersey inside nameplate while pulling down from behind.

This was a tackle. He grabbed him with his arms and used gravity to pull him down, just like pretty much every other tackle.

Again - watch the play. There’s zero chance this can be correctly officiated.

OK

Again: he had 1 possible angle to take, and his only tools are
1. Strength
And
2. Gravity.

That’s called a tackle. Andrew’s legs just happened to get rolled up on.

Here’s an idea - Andrews could have stopped trying to run through the tackle and gone down. That would have prevented this injury. No one suggests that, right? Because that’s dumb. He’s trying to score a TD.

Andrews’ job is to score the TD, and the defender’s job is to stop him from doing that. Something’s gotta give. He can’t hit him high any more.

in that very tweet, “ I don’t think 55 intended to do this” - ok, so it’s not a penalty, nor should it be.

That angle was the only means of making that tackle. Using his weight to pull him down the only means of preventing the score. He tackled him. Andrews got hurt. I feel for the dude - it sucks when players get hurt.

But outlaw this, and you might as well go to flag football. Because ain’t no way that defender stops Andrews without
1. Wrapping him up
And
2. Using his weight to stop him.

If they outlaw this, football as we know it ends. Might as well quit playing IDP, because there won’t be tackles.

The tackler could have wrapped and ran through, the drop is the part in question. I am not for or against here but I think the premise it was the only option the defender had is silly.

Sure, he had the option to let him score

You can tackle someone from behind without dropping all your weight downward. You know this.

You mean if you happen to be in the perfect position? Sure.
However, the guys they are trying to tackle are super athletes that are quite hard to tackle. You know this

Right but the defenders are also super athletes. Would a rule banning this tackle make things more difficult for defenders? Sure. But there are already lots of rules that make things more challenging for defenders. The pros are getting paid a lot of money and have to play within whatever the NFL decides the rules are. It's not impossible to tackle someone from behind other ways.

When a guy is running away from you......dive at his legs and trip him up....slows up in front of you while you pursue.....wrap him up and take him down.

Don’t wrap his hips....and then leave your feet whipping all 250 pounds of your body weight onto his lower legs and backside.......that’s nuts. And it got so out fo control the last 5 or so years......why do you think they are banning it?

They have all the statistics in place before you see rule changes like this. This is not a knee jerk reaction.....they have probably a decade of data to support the rule change.

Congratulations. You just described the total difference between a tackle and a tackle. May as well hang flags on them at this point..

*********

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

*********

I don’t speak asterisk. What does this mean?

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

I'm wondering how defenses are supposed to tackle moving forward. Can't go high, can't go low, can't leave your feet, can't use your head, and a large part of the hip drop feels like it's coming from behind.

my bold tinfoil is that the nfl is inching ever closer to becoming flag football.

they've already added it to the olympics.

We'll see how terribly wrong I am in 5 years.

 

[RandyDB]

Today's Pro Bowl will be tomorrows' NFL games.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

It’s a thing and it’s real.

This is a consequence of players, not being allowed to hit anymore.

I hate to drop tackle. It’s dirty as **** if you disagree, you’re wrong.

 

[ZADO]

How long before we dont even recognize American football anymore ?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It’s a thing and it’s real.

This is a consequence of players, not being allowed to hit anymore.

I hate to drop tackle. It’s dirty as **** if you disagree, you’re wrong.

That’s like, your opinion, maaaaan.

Intent is very difficult to judge. Calling it “dirty as ****” is questionable, IMO

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

How long before we dont even recognize American football anymore ?

Inching closer.

 

[Summer Wheat]

For those of you that apparently have your finger on the pulse of the players, what does Ha Ha and Kool-Aid have to say about hip drop tackles?

Nothing apparent, it is their pulse. The NFLPA was against this being a penalty.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Today's Pro Bowl will be tomorrows' NFL games.

JJ Watt

@JJWatt

Just fast forward to the belts with flags on them…

 

[Joe Schmo]

I woke up this morning to find out the world is over and we are doomed. Oh NFL, what have ye done?!?

 

[belljr]

I recall players saying they would rather get hit in the head then have their knees taken out. Curious if they still feel the same

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I recall players saying they would rather get hit in the head then have their knees taken out. Curious if they still feel the same

It’s weird how all this stuff started happening with their first ill-advised tackling rule change. In the name of player safety they’ve made it just so much worse.

Oh, but let’’s have games on Thursday, Friday, Sat, Sun & Mon; & make players play on short rest. Got it.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Too many people are being overly emotional about the concept of defenders not getting a free pass to inflict injury on offensive players.

Did you guys have that same energy when chop blocks and crackback blocks were taken away from the offense?

Chops, and crackbacks are much easier to avoid as players line up and blindside the defenders. Tackling a juking, moving target is much different.

The hip drops will still happen just as crackbacks and chops still happen, but it will be a penalty now. Take the yards and move on.

 

[Max Power]

I recall players saying they would rather get hit in the head then have their knees taken out. Curious if they still feel the same

It’s weird how all this stuff started happening with their first ill-advised tackling tule change. In the name of player safety they’ve made it just so much worse.

Oh, but let’’s have games on Thursday, Friday, Sat, Sun & Mon; & make players play on short rest. Got it.

Player safety is a cover term for changes that will make the NFL more money.

The hypocrisy of actual player safety shouldn't be discussed.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

Today's Pro Bowl will be tomorrows' NFL games.

JJ Watt
@JJWatt

Just fast forward to the belts with flags on them…

^ Ah yes JJ Watt, the guy who piled onto a hip drop tackle that caused perhaps the worst injury the NFL has ever seen not involving the head or spine...Now I can know what to think!

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

I agree about the hypocrisy of the NFL to tout player safety whilst not replacing turf fields and having Thursday Night football games.

I much rather have Thursday Night Football games moved to late on Saturday nights or early Sunday mornings like the international games.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I agree about the hypocrisy of the NFL to tout player safety whilst not replacing turf fields and having Thursday Night football games.

They’re just extremely image conscious and they’ll bend/change if enough whine about it. They literally were considering banning a QB sneak because of the kickback lol.

The same ones advocating for this change will complain when it directly affects the team they cover or bet on lol.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It’s dirty as **** if you disagree, you’re wrong.

And this is what gets the oil. It’s mostly from ones who have never played, but trust them, they know best .

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

It’s dirty as **** if you disagree, you’re wrong.

And this is what gets the oil. It’s mostly from ones who have never played, but trust them, they know best .

What makes Philly guys so off? Is it the fumes from all the trucks? What is it? You can’t just disagree- you have to take a shot. Don’t act innocent and pretend like you don’t.

I played football up to and into college. Mostly CB and safety. If I want to purposefully hurt someone I know how.

Now youre wrong on both.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

It’s a thing and it’s real.

This is a consequence of players, not being allowed to hit anymore.

I believe other people in this thread have made the same claim...but I disagree that hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

What rule has changed how players can effectively tackle in the open field? Defenders can't blast players that are already out of bounds? Defenders can't head hunt?

Realistically it's just horse collar tackles that were taken away before this...and they were banned for the same reason hip drop tackles are now.

Once someone initiates a hip drop or horse collar tackle, the ball carrier can't even give himself up safely, as Brady would always do.

The problem with this is not everyone has the job security of Tom Brady, so other ball carriers get put into a darned if they do...darned if they don't scenario between reaching the line to gain versus risking sustaining lower leg fractures and knee injuries.