The ***OFFICIAL*** 2018 Pittsburgh Steelers Thread (1 Viewer)

[BigSteelThrill]

I'm really disappointed in Art Rooney for supporting this ridiculous position on the anthem that the NFL is taking. I guess I naively thought the Steelers were better than this.

When combined with the head injury concerns I find my commitment to professional football wavering for the first time in my adult life. Some things are more important than sports.

I know, I know, don't let the door hit me on the ### on the way out.

Jets CEO Christopher Johnson won't discourage players from kneeling despite NFL's new anthem policy.  Says team will pay any fines.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

This.whole thing is so dumb

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So in the “4-3” sub-package (that could be the new “base”) where Dupree plays right DE and assume Watt left DE with Heyward and Tuitt at DT, who else is on the field?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

So in the “4-3” sub-package (that could be the new “base”) where Dupree plays right DE and assume Watt left DE with Heyward and Tuitt at DT, who else is on the field?

I'm guessing it may look something like :

Watt-Heyward-Tuitt-Dupree

Matakevich or Bostic - V. Williams

Edmunds

Burns-Davis-Burnett-Haden

 

[steelers1080]

I'm guessing it may look something like :

Watt-Heyward-Tuitt-Dupree

Matakevich or Bostic - V. Williams

Edmunds

Burns-Davis-Burnett-Haden

And sadly, after week 3 it will be:

Watt - Heyward - Tuitt - Dupree

Matakevich/Bostic - V Williams

Edmunds

Burns - Davis - Burnett - Sutton

I just don't think Haden can stay healthy. Also, I could see Hargrave and Alualu spelling Heyward and Tuitt a lot to try and keep them healthier and fresher as the season goes on. 

Any chance Keion moves to ILB? Could be more athletic than some of our current options.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Jerald Hawkins torn quad muscle, out for the year. With Hubbard gone, the OL is suddenly looking awfully thin. Hopefully Okorafor is up to the task of playing swing tackle as a rookie if they're looking to focus Feiler on the inside. 

 

[steelers1080]

Saw news that Marcus Allen, Juju, and Heyward are hurt. Sounds like minor stuff that they could play through, but aren't being asked to practice through this early in the offseason. Hope it clears up soon and we avoid other major injuries for a while.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I HAD TO GO TO PAGE 8 TO FIND THIS THREAD.  

BAD YINZERS!!

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Well, well, well ....

Updated June 14, 2018 - 9:12 pm

ALAMEDA, Calif. — The Raiders fear potential NFL discipline might be imminent for wide receiver Martavis Bryant, sources said Thursday, inciting internal uneasiness at the conclusion of an otherwise encouraging spring workout program.

Multiple team officials declined comment as they left for a weekslong break before training camp, but they acknowledged the club is awaiting final word on the situation. It is believed to pertain to the NFL’s substance-abuse policy.

 

[Godsbrother]

Well, well, well ....

Yep.  I was coming in to post it.  Thank the Lord the Steelers dumped him.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Camp/fluff piece but at least good to hear Mason Rudolph is getting his legs underneath him.  

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/06/14/mason-rudolph-steelers-backup-quarterback-minicamp-landry-jones-ben-roethlisberger/stories/201806140150

Mike Tomlin traditionally declines to offer opinions about his rookies after these spring sessions without pads, and he did not do so after they concluded Thursday.  

It does not mean others watching Steelers practices since the rookie minicamp in May held back their own thoughts, and among the most significant is this:

Quarterback Mason Rudolph lived up to their expectations and then some. He has performed better as a rookie than any other quarterback they’ve drafted since Ben Roethlisberger, and they think he can compete in training camp to become his backup.  Rudolph noted that he ran the two-minute drill for the first time Thursday during the team’s final minicamp practice as Roethlisberger and most of the first unit on offense did not practice. He also wore the headset receiver to take play-calls from coordinator Randy Fichtner for the first time.  “It’s a lot better, it’s easier,” Rudolph said of the helmet communication system they do not have in college. “You don’t have to go anywhere, you don’t have to look to the sideline , you get it right there in your ear and you call it out.”  If Rudolph does become No. 2 entering the regular season, it does not necessarily mean Landry Jones will leave. The Steelers are not cap-strapped to where his $1.9 million salary taxes them.

They also had veteran quarterbacks as No. 3 in the past, such as 2012 when Byron Leftwich and Charlie Batch were on the roster as Roethlisberger’s two backups.  Rudolph showed them enough this spring that few in the organization will be surprised if he earns the No. 2 job this year.  “Mason’s been everything we’ve asked, for sure,” Fichtner said. “Throws, obviously, a nice ball. The physical things are all there. Obviously mentally and learning is an acquired taste; that’s going to come through reps, physical reps, in-helmet perspectives, things that you’re not going to get and it’s not going to happen overnight.”

Rudolph pronounced his first pro spring a good one.   "I was really happy. I think I had a great minicamp.”  He does not lack the confidence needed for the position, such as how he commanded the huddle with the Steelers.  “I’ve had that since day one. That’s not an issue with me. You can command the huddle when you know what you’re doing.” As with all their rookies, Rudolph will continue his workouts at the UPMC Rooney Sports Complex through next Wednesday, then head home to South Carolina to work out. “I’m going to stay in my own world. I’ll blow up the offensive staff’s cell phones. Hopefully they pick up while they’re on vacation.”

• Another rookie who made a big impression this spring is hybrid halfback Jaylen Samuels, aka Le’Veon Bell Jr. The Steelers drafted him in the fifth round from North Carolina State, where he did all the things Bell does for the Steelers — halfback, split wide, wildcat quarterback, even H-back.   And the coaches have him doing all the things this spring to mimic Bell, and doing many of them well.  “When you get a chance to script a practice ... what you do is you pop in No. 38 and take a look at N.C. State and say what can he do that’s like 26?” Fichtner said. “And you say, wow, OK, he can do that, he might not be able to do that, he’s not ready for that, we’ll be able to do that. So you can put him in those positions to be able to do that.”  

New receivers coach Darryl Drake was equally as impressed with Samuels’ ability to play that position. “He’s been mostly with the running backs,” Drake said. “He’s a hybrid guy who can move around and do some things. I like his skill set. He has an ability to run good routes, body positioning, catching the ball. There is a definite fit. There is a definite place for him.  “Randy does a great job of getting those guys in the position they need to be in. He’s done some great things out here. It’s something we want to push and get him going fast because he has a tremendous amount of ability.”

At 6-feet, 225 pounds, Samuels is listed at the same weight as Bell and is one inch shorter, although they’d like him to lose a few pounds. If the Steelers and Bell do not reach a contract agreement by July 16, he has no alternative but to play under the franchise tag, as he did last season. And, as he did last season, Bell likely won’t sign that one-year deal before Labor Day.  That would give Jaylen Samuels another 5½ weeks to assume the Le’Veon Bell role.

 

[steelers1080]

It's official, I'm sick of Leveon not being signed and we haven't even hit training camp yet. I've been worn down in this war of attrition and I just want them to sign him long term and get it over with. The main argument being that if Ben does retire in the next 2-3 years then we're going to have to blow up the roster somewhat anyways (my opinion) so we might as well go balls to the wall to try and win now.

 

[Godsbrother]

It's official, I'm sick of Leveon not being signed and we haven't even hit training camp yet. I've been worn down in this war of attrition and I just want them to sign him long term and get it over with. The main argument being that if Ben does retire in the next 2-3 years then we're going to have to blow up the roster somewhat anyways (my opinion) so we might as well go balls to the wall to try and win now.

I don't think there is much hope of this.   I have not heard anything that suggests there has been any contract talks in recent months.  Bell made the remark about being paid Antonio Brown money and I just can't see the Steelers paying much more than the $14+ million they have already offered.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

They ain't signing Bell long-term.  Can pretty much book that.  I'll be floored if they do.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I head Duprees shoulder is giving him trouble again.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I head Duprees shoulder is giving him trouble again.

Ugh. 

 

[steelers1080]

I don't think there is much hope of this.   I have not heard anything that suggests there has been any contract talks in recent months.  Bell made the remark about being paid Antonio Brown money and I just can't see the Steelers paying much more than the $14+ million they have already offered.

Leveon just said in an interview that he thinks they will come to a deal and that they're way closer at this point this year, than they were last year.  Not sure if all that is true or not, but it's good to hear. 

 

[Godsbrother]

Leveon just said in an interview that he thinks they will come to a deal and that they're way closer at this point this year, than they were last year.  Not sure if all that is true or not, but it's good to hear. 

That would be awesome but they are running out of time to get a deal done aren't they?

 

[JoeSteeler]

That would be awesome but they are running out of time to get a deal done aren't they?

July 16th I believe

 

[steelers1080]

July 16th I believe

A little under 3 weeks to go, but it was always going to happen close to the wire. There's no reason for Leveon to sign earlier, even if there's a deal he plans to sign because then he can sit out some mandatory offseason workouts.

If a deal gets signed, it will probably happen in the final week. It's a waiting game now.

 

[steelers1080]

I wonder if they're hoping that the Cards sign David Johnson in the next couple days so they can use that to try and get Bell a little lower. At the same time, DJ is in no hurry and if Bell gets paid that is a much better bargaining chip for him.

I honestly think that Bell will have his best career if he stays in Pitt rather than following the money. It would take a while for another line to adjust to his style, and the talent around him would drop off almost anywhere that could afford him.

11 days and counting. I'm hopeful something comes out early next week.

 

[NYRAGE]

Do you guys have any insight on the impact on the offense from Fichtner taking over? Do you think Bell will be used the same way as in the past? Thanks.

 

[steelers1080]

Do you guys have any insight on the impact on the offense from Fichtner taking over? Do you think Bell will be used the same way as in the past? Thanks.

It seems to be expected that the offense will be largely unchanged. The hope is that the team will try and game plan more for different opponents, one criticism of Haley that came out after he was let go was that he was arrogant enough to think that the same game plan would work week after week, year after year. I'd anticipate the offense to try out some new material with possibly more control in Ben's hands, but I wouldn't expect Leveon's usage to drop. If he's not signed long term I'd actually think his usage increases because the team will be less concerned with his long term health.

 

[steelers1080]

Not feeling great about the chances that Leveon gets signed long term. There's 6 hours to go and no news.  I know the Steelers increased their offer from last year but he must just be sticking with his number (whether thats $15 mil or $17 mil, who knows). I think if he's not signed by 4pm there's probably a less than 10% chance he's a Steeler next year. We might offer the best situation, but other teams will have much more cap space to play around with and it appears he cares mostly about the money (which makes sense, it's his livelihood and a business).

This situation feels so tricky because it looks like it's a 50/50 shot of we'll feel like geniuses for not signing him long term, or like idiots. It doesn't feel like there's a middle ground.

 

[Zyphros]

No deal for Bell. Apparently they offered 5/$70MM.

Good riddance.  He had a great chance to be an all time Steeler great AND capitalize on making bank for a RB.  He screwed both those things up.  He goes down as an idiot from here on out in my book.  

 

[JoeSteeler]

No deal for Bell. Apparently they offered 5/$70MM.

rumor is $33M guaranteed

If those figures are true, there is nothing else the Steelers could have done 

 

[Godsbrother]

Good riddance.  He had a great chance to be an all time Steeler great AND capitalize on making bank for a RB.  He screwed both those things up.  He goes down as an idiot from here on out in my book.  

Bell is entitled to go for what he feels he is worth.  I agree that Bell should have taken the deal but time will tell whether he is an idiot or not.

I think it will be interesting to watch this play out.  My guess is that Bell will hold out of camp and report week 1 but there is a chance he could sit on some regular season games as well, possibly up to 9 games.   I find it hard to believe that Bell would pass up $900k per game but he could.  Whenever he does report he may not want the heavy workload he has been carrying which could cause some friction.  Then again Bell needs to have a big year in 2018 if he wants to cash in next year.

On the other hand until Bell signs the Steelers are free to pull the franchise tag at any time making Bell a UFA.  The only scenario where I could see that happening is if the Steelers suffer catastrophic injuries to key players (Ben, AB, etc.) and get off to a horrendous start.  If the Steelers are sitting at 1-7 at mid-season and Bell is still holding out there would be little reason to have him rejoin the team.

 

[steelers1080]

On the other hand until Bell signs the Steelers are free to pull the franchise tag at any time making Bell a UFA.  The only scenario where I could see that happening is if the Steelers suffer catastrophic injuries to key players (Ben, AB, etc.) and get off to a horrendous start.  If the Steelers are sitting at 1-7 at mid-season and Bell is still holding out there would be little reason to have him rejoin the team.

I think there are 2 scenarios where they pull the tag, and that neither will come to pass. 1 is that he holds out until the latest possible moment, and the Steelers are doing just fine without him. Save the money and roll the cap space into next year. The other is if he screws up somehow off the field. I think they just cut bait.

That said, I'm 95% sure that he'll play for us this season and do a great job. I doubt we'll resign him after the year, but if the market isn't as great as he thinks or another team's offer is close to ours I could still see him coming back. If the Browns or Bills offered him $72 million, I could see him returning. But if the Browns or someone else offers him $15 mil plus, he's definitely gone. 

 

[bryhamm]

 

[steelers1080]

The most recent news is saying that the Steelers were only guaranteeing $10 million, which sounds preposterous. It's possible that $10 million was the signing bonus, but his year 1 salary would be pretty much guaranteed, so the minimum number is probably closer to $20 million, but the best bet is probably somewhere between the two leaked numbers $33 and $10 million. 

Either way, I wish they'd guaranteed 2.5 years of salary, that would have been a good compromise. They usually only do the first 2 years, so it's at least somewhat of an olive branch and probably would have had us on the hook for ~$38 million. It's a lot, but it would have allowed us an out after 3 years and would have locked up an amazing player.

Moving on, any news about the QB battle? The Steelers can save money by going with Dobbs and Rudolph over Jones, and if Ben goes down long term Jones definitely isn't leading us to a title, so why not go with the cost savings?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Gurley contract shows the Steelers likely underestimated the rb market. 

 

[Hankmoody]

Gurley contract shows the Steelers likely underestimated the rb market. 

Not at all.  First of all you have no idea what the negotiation and offer truly was all we have is rumor and speculation.  Also, Gurley's a full 3 years+ younger with a ton less mileage and it's just an extension, he's now at 6 years for $72M.  Let's see what Bell's making two years from now.

 

[Godsbrother]

It is nice that all draft picks are signed in time for camp.  I think that means all will be in camp with the exception of Bell.

I heard that Eli Rogers is visiting the Steelers today.   I can't see him making the club if they sign him unless we get hit by the injury bug at WR

Also heard that Mitchell and Moats are visiting the Cardinals.  Apparently the Cardinals are still in the "Steelers-West" mode....

 

[Bayhawks]

Not at all.  First of all you have no idea what the negotiation and offer truly was all we have is rumor and speculation.  Also, Gurley's a full 3 years+ younger with a ton less mileage and it's just an extension, he's now at 6 years for $72M.  Let's see what Bell's making two years from now.

What?

That's the point.  The Steelers lowballed Bell with the guaranteed money. It's unlikely they'd be paying him two years from now in any event.  That's why Bell wanted more guaranteed money.

As far as the "no idea" what the offer truly was; I haven't hear of Bell or the Steelers contradicting the reports of what the offer was.  What reason do we have to doubt it, other than to support the narrative that the Steelers weren't trying to lowball him, or that Bell wasn't asking for too much?  If either of the sides felt the deal being reported wasn't accurate, they'd make that known.

Gurley got $45M guaranteed.  The Steelers offered Bell $10M.  Bell is 2.5 years older (not 3+) and has 636 more touches than Gurley.  Who seriously thinks that 2.5 years and 600 touches is worth $35M?  Only the Steelers.

 

[Hankmoody]

You don't know any of that.  It's irrelevant who has contradicted what, that never happens with anyone.  Even if they did why would anyone believe it's to do anything other than to support their narrative? Until someone posts actual contract offers online I don't believe a word about either side's position.

Gurley's $45M is offset by for his $2.3M salary this year and $9.6M next.  We don't yet know how it's structured but bottom line he's only averaging $12M a year for the next 6 years if he even gets it all.  There could easily be 2023 and/or 2024 salaries that are heavily back-loaded that he doesn't even see.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I think it's safe to say LeVeon overplayed his hand with regard to his salary demands on a per year basis ($17M) and the Steelers probably underoffered on the guaranteed money.

 

[Evilgrin72]

What?

That's the point.  The Steelers lowballed Bell with the guaranteed money. It's unlikely they'd be paying him two years from now in any event.  That's why Bell wanted more guaranteed money.

As far as the "no idea" what the offer truly was; I haven't hear of Bell or the Steelers contradicting the reports of what the offer was.  What reason do we have to doubt it, other than to support the narrative that the Steelers weren't trying to lowball him, or that Bell wasn't asking for too much?  If either of the sides felt the deal being reported wasn't accurate, they'd make that known.

Gurley got $45M guaranteed.  The Steelers offered Bell $10M.  Bell is 2.5 years older (not 3+) and has 636 more touches than Gurley.  Who seriously thinks that 2.5 years and 600 touches is worth $35M?  Only the Steelers.

The guaranteed money was low because they wanted to spread the cap hit over the 5 years.  That way, if Ben retires in 3 years, they can get out of the contract without crippling themselves with dead money on the cap if they need to do a full-scale rebuild.  They always offer low guarantees, but they also typically will not cut a player before there's (max) a year or two left on the deal.  He would have gotten 3 years at $14 per and a $10 signing bonus at a minimum, so that's $52 in pocket at the bottom end.  Bell wanted more than just the $10M guaranteed in writing.  Given his history and the future of the team, it didn't make sense for them to offer him so much guaranteed pay that they would be hamstrung by the deal.

Neither side is "in the wrong."  They just had different approaches to the problem.  In the end, it didn't work out.  Both parties will move on after the season.  End of story.

 

[irish eyes]

Thankfully the Steelers didnt give Bell a Gurley type of contract. They would have regretted that for a long time. 

 

[steelers1080]

Steelers going to resign Eli to a 1-year contract.  Don't think this changes much fantasy-wise. Seems to imply they don't love any of their younger WRs enough to move on. Not sure what that means for Hunter or the rookies (not James Washington).

 

[steelers1080]

One clarification on Gurley's contract is that a reporter (I forget which) stated that it was $45 million in guarantees, not guaranteed money. I think this implies that it's either injury guarantees, or the money that becomes guaranteed for the next year after march. And even if it is $34 million in new guaranteed money, that's similar to what was reported for Bell in the first leaked contract. I don't think this necessarily helps Bell get a huge deal next year, but who knows.

I still wonder how much lower of an overall deal he would have taken for more money. 5-years, $55 million fully guaranteed, I'd have been ok with that. We rarely cut players, and it would have pulled the overall number down $15 mil. 

 

[Bojang0301]

Steelers going to resign Eli to a 1-year contract.  Don't think this changes much fantasy-wise. Seems to imply they don't love any of their younger WRs enough to move on. Not sure what that means for Hunter or the rookies (not James Washington).

I was looking at this last night. I don’t know who could fill in the slot if JuJu were to get hurt. Quandree Henderson is an unknown commodity. I think if they carry six WR’s he could make the roster but I kind of doubt it.

 

[Bayhawks]

The guaranteed money was low because they wanted to spread the cap hit over the 5 years.  That way, if Ben retires in 3 years, they can get out of the contract without crippling themselves with dead money on the cap if they need to do a full-scale rebuild.  They always offer low guarantees, but they also typically will not cut a player before there's (max) a year or two left on the deal.  He would have gotten 3 years at $14 per and a $10 signing bonus at a minimum, so that's $52 in pocket at the bottom end.  Bell wanted more than just the $10M guaranteed in writing.  Given his history and the future of the team, it didn't make sense for them to offer him so much guaranteed pay that they would be hamstrung by the deal.

Neither side is "in the wrong."  They just had different approaches to the problem.  In the end, it didn't work out.  Both parties will move on after the season.  End of story.

Not for nothing, but if they “typically will not cut a player before there’s (max) a year or two left on the deal,” then they should have just given him the larger guarantee.  If they were gonna pay it anyway, they can still spread the signing bonus out, right?

 

[Evilgrin72]

Not for nothing, but if they “typically will not cut a player before there’s (max) a year or two left on the deal,” then they should have just given him the larger guarantee.  If they were gonna pay it anyway, they can still spread the signing bonus out, right?

Yes, but a $10M bonus over 5 years is $2M per. A $45M bonus is $9M per. In the former case, if they cut him after 3 years, they only eat $4M in cap space as dead money, which is nothing. They're paying Shazier more than double that this season to not play. If they fully guaranteed $45 in bonuses, they'd have to eat $18M in dead cap if they cut him after 3 years with a much smaller cap savings due to the decreased annual salary. 

Bell knew that. He didn't want his payola tied to Roethlisberger's decision to play or retire. The Steelers didn't want to be stuck paying $15M annually to a 30 year old RB with 2,500 touches when Ben retires and they need to rebuild. Bell's demands didn't make sense for them to meet. Bell was unconcerned with their cap space desires when he can command (in theory) more guaranteed money than they offered on the open market. Hence, the impasse. 

That's my educated guess, at least. 

 

[Bayhawks]

Yes, but a $10M bonus over 5 years is $2M per. A $45M bonus is $9M per. In the former case, if they cut him after 3 years, they only eat $4M in cap space as dead money, which is nothing. They're paying Shazier more than double that this season to not play. If they fully guaranteed $45 in bonuses, they'd have to eat $18M in dead cap if they cut him after 3 years with a much smaller cap savings due to the decreased annual salary. 

Bell knew that. He didn't want his payola tied to Roethlisberger's decision to play or retire. The Steelers didn't want to be stuck paying $15M annually to a 30 year old RB with 2,500 touches when Ben retires and they need to rebuild. Bell's demands didn't make sense for them to meet. Bell was unconcerned with their cap space desires when he can command (in theory) more guaranteed money than they offered on the open market. Hence, the impasse. 

That's my educated guess, at least. 

OK, but in this scenario above, they weren’t going to pay him anyway. If they weee going to base the decision on whether to pay his later salaries on Ben, that makes no sense for Bell.  Why would he accept a deal that was good for Pitt, but gave him little guaranteed money & even less security (Pitt will only pay him as long as Bens around?)

 

[Evilgrin72]

OK, but in this scenario above, they weren’t going to pay him anyway. If they weee going to base the decision on whether to pay his later salaries on Ben, that makes no sense for Bell.  Why would he accept a deal that was good for Pitt, but gave him little guaranteed money & even less security (Pitt will only pay him as long as Bens around?)

Precisely. That's, I'm sure, why he chose not to sign. The counter argument is that they were going to pay him for at least 3 years at $15M annually, plus the signing bonus, so he was effectively guaranteed $55M over the next 3 seasons with the chance to hit free agency again with some at least some gas still in the tank (age 29.) He could have played behind an elite run blocking line with an elite QB for the next 3 seasons with a realistic shot at a Super Bowl each year, and he could have stayed in the city he knows and lives in. He may be able to get some more guaranteed money elsewhere next season, but who knows what the situation will be? Not every place is Pittsburgh. Timmons signed with Miami and on their bye week was hanging around the Steelers practice facility trying to figure out a way back. He could blow out his knee again and not fetch any offers. He could have a bad year and submarine his value. He took a calculated risk, similar to what Mike Wallace did. How it works out for Bell remains to be seen. 

 

[Bayhawks]

Precisely. That's, I'm sure, why he chose not to sign. The counter argument is that they were going to pay him for at least 3 years at $15M annually, plus the signing bonus, so he was effectively guaranteed $55M over the next 3 seasons with the chance to hit free agency again with some at least some gas still in the tank (age 29.) He could have played behind an elite run blocking line with an elite QB for the next 3 seasons with a realistic shot at a Super Bowl each year, and he could have stayed in the city he knows and lives in. He may be able to get some more guaranteed money elsewhere next season, but who knows what the situation will be? Not every place is Pittsburgh. Timmons signed with Miami and on their bye week was hanging around the Steelers practice facility trying to figure out a way back. He could blow out his knee again and not fetch any offers. He could have a bad year and submarine his value. He took a calculated risk, similar to what Mike Wallace did. How it works out for Bell remains to be seen. 

That’s a weak counter argument, though.  Would you be OK with a deal where they give a huge, fully-guaranteed contact to Bell, but he promised to re-do the contract for less money if his play declines?  I don’t think so; a “promise” to do something that you won’t put into the contract is worthless.  If they were going to pay him 3 years @$15M each, our it in the contract, don’t just expect the man to trust you.  If it’s a given that he’ll get that money, put it in writing.  The only thing that is real about NFL contracts is the guarantees money.  The Steelers were asking Bell (if the scenario you suggest is accurate) to give that up & just trust that they were good for it.

 

[Evilgrin72]

That’s a weak counter argument, though.  Would you be OK with a deal where they give a huge, fully-guaranteed contact to Bell, but he promised to re-do the contract for less money if his play declines?  I don’t think so; a “promise” to do something that you won’t put into the contract is worthless.  If they were going to pay him 3 years @$15M each, our it in the contract, don’t just expect the man to trust you.  If it’s a given that he’ll get that money, put it in writing.  The only thing that is real about NFL contracts is the guarantees money.  The Steelers were asking Bell (if the scenario you suggest is accurate) to give that up & just trust that they were good for it.

Basically, yeah. He didn't want to do it and that's understandable, but that's the way they structure deals and they have a track record of keeping their guys around for most, if not all, of their contracts. You don't think AB could have gotten more than $19M guaranteed on the open market last year? Yet, he signed. 

They weren't going to cut him before the season starts, so worst case, he was going to get $23M this year instead of $14M. If they cut him after this season, he would have made an extra $9M and would be a free agent next season anyway, the same way he will be now. If they cut him after 2 years, he would have gotten $36 million over 2 seasons and hit free agency at 28.

If he wants $45M guaranteed, he was never going to get that from Pittsburgh. Ever. It's not how they do business. He can look for it elsewhere next spring.

 

[Bayhawks]

Basically, yeah. He didn't want to do it and that's understandable, but that's the way they structure deals and they have a track record of keeping their guys around for most, if not all, of their contracts. You don't think AB could have gotten more than $19M guaranteed on the open market last year? Yet, he signed. 

They weren't going to cut him before the season starts, so worst case, he was going to get $23M this year instead of $14M. If they cut him after this season, he would have made an extra $9M and would be a free agent next season anyway, the same way he will be now. If they cut him after 2 years, he would have gotten $36 million over 2 seasons and hit free agency at 28.

If he wants $45M guaranteed, he was never going to get that from Pittsburgh. Ever. It's not how they do business. He can look for it elsewhere next spring.

OK, that’s the way they do business.  As a fan of the team, you’re OK with them losing a player, in his prime, of Bells caliber, because “that’s just the way they do business?”  

You’re suggesting they wouldn’t cut him before the last 2 years of his deal, so they’d pay him $45M over the 1st 3.  If they don’t cut players before the last 2 years, they were going to give him that money, anyway, but they wouldn’t guarantee it?  And, I think it’s safe to assume Bell would have accepted the deal if $45M was guaranteed.  

Based on all that, the only reason Bell isnt under a long term contract with Pitt is b/c they only like to structure deals one way?

 

[Evilgrin72]

OK, that’s the way they do business.  As a fan of the team, you’re OK with them losing a player, in his prime, of Bells caliber, because “that’s just the way they do business?”  

You’re suggesting they wouldn’t cut him before the last 2 years of his deal, so they’d pay him $45M over the 1st 3.  If they don’t cut players before the last 2 years, they were going to give him that money, anyway, but they wouldn’t guarantee it?  And, I think it’s safe to assume Bell would have accepted the deal if $45M was guaranteed.  

Based on all that, the only reason Bell isnt under a long term contract with Pitt is b/c they only like to structure deals one way?

Yes, pretty much. 

Incidentally, the "45 million" that Gurley was guaranteed is somewhat misleading. That includes the two years remaining on his rookie deal as well as so-called rolling guarantees, which could easily have existed in the Bell offer too. The total fully guaranteed new money in Gurley's contract is actually 21.9M, not 45M.  So, when you say... 

Gurley got $45M guaranteed.  The Steelers offered Bell $10M.  Bell is 2.5 years older (not 3+) and has 636 more touches than Gurley.  Who seriously thinks that 2.5 years and 600 touches is worth $35M?  Only the Steelers. 

... That's not accurate. If you change the $35M in that statement to $11.9M, that makes a lot more sense, yeah? 

 

[Godsbrother]

OK, that’s the way they do business.  As a fan of the team, you’re OK with them losing a player, in his prime, of Bells caliber, because “that’s just the way they do business?”  

Yes.   I would rather see Bell signed but not to the point where it puts them in salary cap hell.   The Steelers aren't perfect but they usually manage the cap pretty well.   Both sides tried to come up with a deal and it didn't work out.  I can live with that.

It wasn't too long ago when the Steelers were considered crazy for not working out a long term deal with Mike Wallace.  I hated to see him go but as it turned out the Steelers made the right call.  I am not saying that will be the case with Bell -- we'll just have to see what happens.