The Official Kicker (K) Thread (4 Viewers)

[Hot Sauce Guy]

To be honest the only reason I come into this thread is to maybe catch a hot sauce contest ... I mean ..  *cue AI* we’re talking about kickers 

The best part is that the last 2 season’s, around week 5-6-7-Ish, when I’d go to do a random k contest, this topic is always buried like 8 pages deep. I have to use the search feature to resurrect it, and it’s usually a several week old bump. 

Thats how much super extra important kicker news is happening.   

I also love the accusation that this is a promotion - as though I don’t have 10,000 people following on various social media to market to if I wanted to promote, or say, paid Instagram advertising. No, imma retire off the 3-4 people a year I send free sauce to at a loss for shipping & product. What a great business plan.

That & the underpants gnomes = step 3: profit. 

But since a few have registered complaints, I won’t be doing another unless I can get direct clearance from the “powers that be”.

Some folks just don’t want you to have nice things I guess. 

Results coming up - just doing my write-up now. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

OK, thank you all for your patience while I got everything researched. I always want to be fair & make sure nothing was overlooked - dot the i's & cross the t's and all that.

Also, I'm on the west coast, so when a couple of yous are DM'ing me at 04:30 AM, I'm 

lol

Also, I like to do the full write-up, because mocking, scorn & ridicule should be part of any Kicker contest, because seriously - #### Kickers. Bunch of soccer players who sold out if ya ask me.

Without further ado, here are this week's guesses, actual scores & the winner - gonna try to post with formatting - it might be jacked up. We'll see if it's readable.

FBG Member    Kicker    Points guessed    Long

@-fish-    Zeurlien    15    56    15    55 Dang near spot-on! You were correct last night, you nailed it. Missed by 1 single yard. I'll PM you with my website - just let me know a shipping address & which 2 varieties of sauce you'd like.

Spock    Zurlien    14    49    15    55 - So close, but only 3rd place!

Stephen Halloway    Zurlien    15    52    15    55 - And THAT is how close these K contests can be, folks!

Football Jones    Zurlien    12    52    15    55 - man, all these Zurlien guesses were inches away! 

 And now the sorry looking lot of also-rans - good try fellas, but no cigar. Thomas the Skank Engine does get kudos - if Greg the Leg misses that 55 yarder off the dirt, Vinatieri woulda won it for him with a spectacularly accurate guess.

 Also Hilts with Boswell gets a shout for the opposite reason - I hope Boswell wasn't your FFB K, because yeesh.  

Thomas the Skank Engine    Vinatieri    13    51    11    51

Gottabesweet    Tucker    15    51    11    41

4th&Inches    Parkey     18    42    11    33

neal cassady    Vinatieri    14    49    11    51

Bronco Billy    McManus    15    53    9    53

gethugefast1    Butker    15    53    8    46

CowqboysHomer    Lambo    12    52    8    39

tangfoot    Fairbarn    16    47    8    42

thecardiackid    Butker    14    51    8    46

ILUVBEER99    Fairbarn    16    46    8    42

Quizguy66    Carlson    12    42    6    48

IHeartFF    Lutz    14    49    6    36

Arodin    Bryant    14    48    6    52

BobbyLayne    Lutz    12    47    6    36

SaintsInDome    Lutz    17    54    6    36

Uncle Leo    Bryant    13    47    6    52

WhatRox    Crosby    15    47    6    42

Sarlakticacid    SeaBass    15    61    6    35

cap'n grunge    Carlson    15    54    6    48

Faust    Lutz    14    51    6    36

SayWhat    Prater    13    47    5    21

starks    Prater    15    52    5    21

Daemon    Gano    11    47    4    27

Hilts    Boswell    14    48    3    N/A

                Jabrony    Tucker    16    53    Edited post, DQ! (I even quoted & told Jabrony DQ, but I guess he thought I wanted Dairy Queen or something?  ) 

Thanks to everyone who played, it was fun. I'll see if I can get the contest approved for future random weeks. If not, it's been a fun 3 seasons of it & I appreciate y'all's participation.

ETA - ok, that sucked. Just going without formatting. 

 

[Spock]

Carr's late pick six screwed me out of my hot sauce. I think I'll just head down to Hot Licks in Shoreline village and pick me up some anyways.

Thanks for the contest @Hot Sauce Guy 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Carr's late pick six screwed me out of my hot sauce. I think I'll just head down to Hot Licks in Shoreline village and pick me up some anyways.

Thanks for the contest @Hot Sauce Guy 

Ouch! 

I've reached out to Joe seeking permission to make this it's own topic. 

Cross your fingers.  

 

[-fish-]

Can't believe anyone would complain about a fun contest that doesn't hurt anything else on these boards.   We can have 10 pages of two guys arguing about the motivations behind Bell's holdout, but add something fun to a kicker thread and that crosses a line?

Thanks for doing this, HSG!   Can't wait to try it.

 

[Hilts]

Ouch! 

I've reached out to Joe seeking permission to make this it's own topic. 

Cross your fingers.  

I would have just started the thread and waited to see if it got axed. You're a better man than me. Can't see any reason they'd ban it especially with the nonsense that often clutters the pool. If Joe says no to its own thread then I suppose it'll have to continue living here. 

One of these times I'm going to win this contest!

 

[Elevencents]

Can't believe anyone would complain about a fun contest that doesn't hurt anything else on these boards.   We can have 10 pages of two guys arguing about the motivations behind Bell's holdout, but add something fun to a kicker thread and that crosses a line?

Thanks for doing this, HSG!   Can't wait to try it.

Seriously, lol. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Thanks for doing this, HSG!   Can't wait to try it.

 My pleasure… Now you will forever have a soft spot for a kicker, instead of hating every single one every single week.  

 

[-fish-]

There is a way to post a new thread that follows the rules of the SP if it comes to that.  

 

[Dismattle]

Personally just as soon see Kicker info...  I'm okay with seeing some slight misdirection in threads but hi-jacking seems unsporting...  Between player suspension/injury choosing to roster such things as a backup (bye) kicker is a legit option  Possibly smarter but who doesn't like to Win w/ a lottery ticket flyer

 

[BobbyLayne]

In our format, of the top 11 kickers Week 1:

4 drafted

(Zurrlein, Tucker, Gould, Succop)

7 were on the WW

(McManus, Vinateri, Myers, Catanzaro, Parkey, Bullock, Rosas)

While the bottom 10 included

4 drafted

(Boswell, Elliott, Lutz, Prater)

The mediocre middle: 11 Ks - 4 drafted

No one knows how to pick a Kicker

 

[Bronco Billy]

Curses.  Foiled again!  Damn you McManus!

 

[Bronco Billy]

Seriously, lol. 

Some people can’t help assigning themselves the duty of being the Fun Police.

 

[LawFitz]

Some people can’t help assigning themselves the duty of being the Fun Police.

Not at all the intent. Have all the fun you guys want. Just asking for your contest to be in its own thread.

Some of us actually want to try to figure out the kicker thing. Like streaming D's, there are methods to the madness - e.g. finding kickers with positive game script and good weather conditions. Some of us would actually like to do that weekly here, if possible, without having to sort through a bunch of contest posts. That's all I (and others) have said, but have been strawman'd into something else.

 

[TartanLion]

Now that Denver’s O seems to have re-emerged somewhat from the frozen tundra of last year do we like McManus going forward kicking at altitude ?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

choosing to roster such things as a backup (bye) kicker is a legit option  Possibly smarter but who doesn't like to Win w/ a lottery ticket flyer

Looking for advice about choosing to roster a backup, or whether it’s even a good idea to do so belongs on th assistant coach forum.

any discussion of that nature is also hijacking of this topic. 

In the 40 of pages of this topic, approximately 1.5 pages of discussion belongs on this topic.

#truth

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Now that Denver’s O seems to have re-emerged somewhat from the frozen tundra of last year do we like McManus going forward kicking at altitude ?

High altitude, strong leg, above average offense, late BYE (10) 

i grabbed him in both leagues after waivers ran last night over Prater & Sturgis, respectively.

i was a little surprised he wasn’t drafted, but I don’t really pay attention to K during my draft & by the last round in the IDP (27) I’m far too hammered to care. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

People hating on kickers is a distraction to the kicker topic.

Also, folks coming in here to complain about the distractions to the kicker topic is also a distraction to the kicker topic. 

And also, my pointing out that someone coming here to complain about distractions to the kicker topic is also a distraction to the kicker topic, is also a distraction to the kicker topic. 

(Wow; that’s meta) 

And people defending the distractions to the kicker topic that both the 1st and second type of posts point out, is yet another distraction to the kicker topic.

In fact, one could reasonably argue that outside of *breaking omg so important kicker news!*, my kicker contest is the single most Kicker-based discussion throughout the entire kicker topic - because every response is guessing about stats from kickers & doing none of the first 4 things.  

 

[TartanLion]

High altitude, strong leg, above average offense, late BYE (10) 

i grabbed him in both leagues after waivers ran last night over Prater & Sturgis, respectively.

i was a little surprised he wasn’t drafted, but I don’t really pay attention to K during my draft & by the last round in the IDP (27) I’m far too hammered to care. 

Me neither I don’t usually draft a K or D, picked up Carlson last minute on Saturday for week 1  but see McManus there on the FA pool  and it seems logical that he could be good going forward with a home match at altitude against the Raiders 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Me neither I don’t usually draft a K or D, picked up Carlson last minute on Saturday for week 1  but see McManus there on the FA pool  and it seems logical that he could be good going forward with a home match at altitude against the Raiders 

If he doesn’t have 12 points this week my name isn’t Mortimer G. Phardpounder. 

Ok, that’s not my name, but he’s a great pickup if you need a kicker. 

 

[andyk803]

Drop Lutz for McManus? 

Saint's score too many TDs for my taste

 

[BobbyLayne]

Drop Lutz for McManus? 

Saint's score too many TDs for my taste

Lutz has 60 FGs the last two years - K8 & K5

Holding (& McManus is available)

 

[Moonshine]

Drop Lutz for McManus? 

Saint's score too many TDs for my taste

Not a chance. Dome kicker for a team that moves the ball well? Put him in your kicker slot and don't touch him until Week 6. If he isn't cutting it for you by then, ditch him during his bye week. Otherwise, he's one of those set it and forget it guys for me.

 

[LawFitz]

Unless you have a top kicker, one advantage to weekly kicker streaming is using the kicker slot as a mid-week extra roster spot for other positions where you might be waiting resolution on injury news for one of your players.

 

[rockaction]

Unless you have a top kicker, one advantage to weekly kicker streaming is using the kicker slot as a mid-week extra roster spot for other positions where you might be waiting resolution on injury news for one of your players.

This is very true, and what I do with the D/ST and K positions. 

I also think the kicker competition needs its own thread, and I'm no killjoy according to anybody who knows me. I haven't complained, but just have a separate thread. I've lost championships because of good kicking matchups before, so this thread is worthwhile despite it all. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Drop Lutz for McManus? 

Saint's score too many TDs for my taste

I wouldn’t. You’re trading a dome for a cold weather winter stadium. 

Lutz is one of the few kickers I’d hang onto & maybe even pick up a BYE K as a 1-week rental. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I've lost championships because of good kicking matchups before, so this thread is worthwhile despite it all. 

No, you’ve lost championships because your team wasn’t good enough to win them. 

The K was the most random part. 

K on a great offense - maybe they score 5 TDs & you get 5 points (PATs)

K on the worst offense? Maybe they get a few turnovers & kick 5 FGs netting you 20 points. 

Prater missed a 44 & a 55 yarder on MNF - he’s considered one of the elite K’s & lost someone 9.9 points.

I was that someone - and I lost by 8. 

My TE, RB2 & O-Flex combined for 8.7 points. 

My kicker did not lose me week1, and your kickers have not lost you a league. 

 

[shadyridr]

Now that Denver’s O seems to have re-emerged somewhat from the frozen tundra of last year do we like McManus going forward kicking at altitude ?

Yes, I think hes a top 5 kicker this year and just added him myself.

 

[rockaction]

No, you’ve lost championships because your team wasn’t good enough to win them. 

The K was the most random part. 

K on a great offense - maybe they score 5 TDs & you get 5 points (PATs)

K on the worst offense? Maybe they get a few turnovers & kick 5 FGs netting you 20 points. 

Prater missed a 44 & a 55 yarder on MNF - he’s considered one of the elite K’s & lost someone 9.9 points.

I was that someone - and I lost by 8. 

My TE, RB2 & O-Flex combined for 8.7 points. 

My kicker did not lose me week1, and your kickers having lost you a league. 

No, I lost championships because Graham Gano scored 24-5 points in a game during championship week in 2012 while my Nick Novak scored one. 

You're just incorrect. Sorry you don't see it that way. My team was plenty good enough to win, throw in a statistically significant random event, and we lost. It was probably two or three std. deviations from the norm. That's statistics. Sorry my magic football team couldn't have sustained that. 

Don't be a Chachi about this. Joanie needs her sweetheart. Don't let her down.  

 

[rockaction]

Arguing that kickers aren't important at some level is like banging your head against a brick wall. 

If it wasn't important in fantasy at some level, authorities would no longer rate it or try to quantify it. It's just difficult, that's all. It correlates with a high-volume, high-quality offense that doesn't do well when the boundaries of the game tighten. Plus, it's luck, too. But that doesn't mean that getting in on a high-quality guy with a high-volume offense doesn't matter. It does.  

 

[simey]

I wouldn’t. You’re trading a dome for a cold weather winter stadium. 

In my league last season, five of the top 10 kickers were outdoor cold weather kickers. Only 3 of the top 10 were dome kickers.

 

[OnTheReg]

How do you guys feel about Mason Crosby going forward? 

 

[BobbyLayne]

In my league last season, five of the top 10 kickers were outdoor cold weather kickers. Only 3 of the top 10 were dome kickers.

Good point. “If they’re not in a dome I don’t give ‘em a home” is a silly crutch argument. Along the lines of “Gordon & Mixon are trash because YPC” (don’t ever watch film or you’ll be really confused by that one.)

He should keep Lutz over McManus because the Saints kicker is better in every /g statistical category, including FGA which is best predictive category. NOT because “the ball travels further at altitude.”

Earlier in the thread someone said they were gonna drop Lutz because NO doesn’t kick enough FGs. If you think 1 week is a sufficient sample size, I don’t think we can help you.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Arguing that kickers aren't important at some level is like banging your head against a brick wall. 

If it wasn't important in fantasy at some level, authorities would no longer rate it or try to quantify it. It's just difficult, that's all. It correlates with a high-volume, high-quality offense that doesn't do well when the boundaries of the game tighten. Plus, it's luck, too. But that doesn't mean that getting in on a high-quality guy with a high-volume offense doesn't matter. It does.  

It’s not that they’re not important.

its that they’re random. 

And the top 12 kickers all score pretty similarly, though randomly distributed.

the sooner you understand this, the more zen you can be about kickers, thus freeing you up to focus on more important aspects of fantasy football. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

How do you guys feel about Mason Crosby going forward? 

If Rodgers is playing he’s great. 

If Rodgers is not playing I would drop him for anyone with a pulse & a leg. 

 

[rockaction]

It’s not that they’re not important.

its that they’re random. 

And the top 12 kickers all score pretty similarly, though randomly distributed.

the sooner you understand this, the more zen you can be about kickers, thus freeing you up to focus on more important aspects of fantasy football. 

Correlation is evidence against randomness. It's not deduction and axiomatic proof, nor proof of causation, but rather, induction. It's evidence to an otherwise ephemeral phenomenon by using bits and pieces of information to solve the totality. This is why when people run regressions they find that high-volume offenses tend to have kickers that score higher in fantasy football. Nothing random about that. The question becomes who is high quality and high volume and how often do they FGA. 

The sooner you focus on logic and how deduction and induction work, then you can free up your time for yummy hot sauces.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The sooner you focus on logic and how deduction and induction work, then you can free up your time for yummy hot sauces.  

Ah, you mean like responding to someone’s entire point rather than singling out a single aspect of it? 

Like how you conveniently disregarded me saying “and the top 12 all score about the same though randomly distributed”?

because that part is super extra important. The top 12 kickers - Gano, your dude who happened to choke that week, all of them will have big weeks and bad weeks.

It’s not possible to predict when your kicker, or your opponent’s kicker will have a monster game. Assuming you both have top 12 kickers (and in a 12 team league, why wouldn’t you?) the difference between them at the end of the year is ~20 points, or less than 2 per game. 

So if you lost because your opponents K put up 20+, and your K put up 3, you didn’t lose because you have a bad kicker. 

You lost because you had bad luck. 

Logic. Defuction. Induction. Simple. 

 

[The Frankman]

Just waiting for the Harrison Butker explosion, Air Mahomes/Hunt/Hill are going to attack every time and they aren't always going to get TDs.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Just waiting for the Harrison Butker explosion, Air Mahomes/Hunt/Hill are going to attack every time and they aren't always going to get TDs.

But they might! 

ya never know.

and based on people’s reactions to week 1, why not project him for 68 PATs?  

 

[rockaction]

Ah, you mean like responding to someone’s entire point rather than singling out a single aspect of it? 

Like how you conveniently disregarded me saying “and the top 12 all score about the same though randomly distributed”?

because that part is super extra important. The top 12 kickers - Gano, your dude who happened to choke that week, all of them will have big weeks and bad weeks.

It’s not possible to predict when your kicker, or your opponent’s kicker will have a monster game. Assuming you both have top 12 kickers (and in a 12 team league, why wouldn’t you?) the different between them at the end of the year is ~20 points, or less than 2 per game. 

So if you lost because your opponents K put up 20+, and your K put up 3, you didn’t lose because you have a bad kicker. 

You lost because you had bad luck. 

Logic. 

Or you lost because the team you were playing had a good defense and the team he was playing was swiss cheese. 

Not luck. 

Logic.  

This is why there are laws against insider trading. Because, in the end, there is inside information and picking a stock isn't just throwing a dart. That's for people that don't have the information. There's no way derivative investors guard their equations so carefully, laws are written so scrupulously. Information isn't always codified or, ahem, embodied in the final pricing -- there's a lot under the surface that goes into it. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Or you lost because the team you were playing had a good defense and the team he was playing was swiss cheese. 

Not luck. 

Logic.  

That’s not logic, it’s assertion and speculation using specious evidence. 

What happened to “deduction”?

Good teams kick FGs, even against bad defenses. Bad teams kick FGs against good defenses. Bad teams kick FGs against bad defenses. Good teams kick FGs against good defenses. It runs the whoooole gambit here. 

teams that play teams with Swiss cheese defenses sometimes only score TDs - how’d Butker work out for folks with all those PATs this week?

sorry - the only Swiss cheese here is your argument being so full of holes.  

This is why there are laws against insider trading. Because, in the end, there is inside information and picking a stock isn't just throwing a dart. That's for people that don't have the information. There's no way derivative investors guard their equations so carefully, laws are written so scrupulously. Information isn't always codified or, ahem, embodied in the final pricing -- there's a lot under the surface that goes into it. 

This is is the worst analogy to kickers I’ve ever seen. Ever.

zero basis for comparison. For one, there’s no law against playing any kickers against any team regardless of information. 

Even the 20th ranked kicker could have a 15-20 point game, and they do - regularly, individually. 

They just don’t individually do it with enough frequency to finish in the top 12.

and even the best kickers in the NFL/fantasy have the occasional sub-8 point game, like Butker just showed us. 

Insider trading is knowing there’s bad news coming & dumping a stock, our good news/buying a stock based on illegally obtained inside information not otherwise publicly available. Zero correlation here, unless you have a coach on speed dial before the game telling you they’re gonna do nothing but kick FGs even if it’s 3rd down. And that’d just be bad football, though helpful for wagering purposes (Take. The. Under!) 

You’re grasping at straws (see, that’s an example of a good metaphor). 

 

 

[rockaction]

I don't think so. If you believe Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek, then you believe that there's a lot of information embodied in a price or a wage, a net result of a million unquantified desires and supply and demand, as it were. The end result -- the price or wage -- isn't random, as you say, but a summation of a million unquantified things, quantified. It's like a kicker's score.  

Insider trading wasn't a bad analogy because kickers and fantasy football have, quite simply, a million unquantifiable things embodied in a manifest point total, arbitrary as one's scoring system may be. You are arguing the "random walk" stock theory about the top twelve kickers. I'm arguing there's information yet to be gleaned, imperfect and inductive though it may be. Actually, your own position allows me to win the argument based on its own premises. You argue the random walk theory and then arbitrarily set a cut-off point on a yearly roster. But what of the random walk you so ascribe? You've simply selected twelve of the top thirty, declared it random, and then said it made no sense. Then you don't even bring out the correlative nature of certain tendencies within teams, you just sweep them aside. And you say so that in a week-to-week, head-to-head score that this should be so. There are serious issues with your argument and here are two or three problems with it: 

1. You set the parameters of debate - that nothing is significant outside the blue chips - we assume twelve kickers, much like economists assume perfect competition and pricing and wage knowledge
   
2. You set the terms of debate - that nothing matters weekly and that all is random chance - most fantasy sites use historical trends to gauge teams and their tendencies by Week 16
   
3. You insist on randomness while using logic as your guide. Logic can be, as I said, inductive or deductive, and you haven't dealt well with that argument. It is either deduction -- axiomatic syllogisms -- or imperfect pieces of information -- induction -- that rise to causation the closer we get with our pieces and correlations. It's what we go on in fantasy football for the most part, this induction. 
   

It's not as simple as luck. Nothing is. With enough information, almost anything can be quantified. Hence the insider trading analogy. Once you have information that benefits, you can use it to breeze through the markets, picking and hunting winners, not throwing darts or randomly walking. We choose insider trading laws because we operate on fiat and assumptions -- what happens when unfair market information, according to our laws, happens? It crashes the faith in the market because of corporate and business law. Right now, the analogy succeeds because people like me want the insider information, and people like you crap on it because -- not of logic -- but of a refusal to take it seriously as a market at all.  

On a random aside: I remember pure logic applied to sports: The three true outcomes in baseball were a hipster hit, too, and look how the Royals won the Series with Ned Yost running the helm. Logicians and their assumptions are what's important. 

Now we use f(x) and exit velocity for baseball instead of raw stats and quaint notions like the three true outcomes.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This topic has officially left the rails.

Worst...analogy...ever.

 

[rockaction]

This topic has officially left the rails.

Worst...analogy...ever.

I think we should let others be the judge of that, my friend.  

I think I've made my point about the difficulty of information and pricing and wages and markets. 

You've simply disagreed while, somehow, summating my very problems with your argument as embodied in yours. 

That's the real train wreck.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I think we should let others be the judge of that, my friend.  

I think I've made my point about the difficulty of information and pricing and wages and markets. 

You’ve made a point about the difficulty of information & pricing with the stock market. 

Which would be awesome for a stock market topic.

but it’s completely irrelevant to kickers.

and if Friedman & Hayek we’re here, they’d look back over a season of statistical analysis and identify outliers, analyze trends, obsess over “market conditions” and....then they’d make the same wild-### guesses we all do about kickers.

You've simply disagreed while, somehow, summating my very problems with your argument as embodied in yours. 

That's the real train wreck.  

Actually no - I’ve been explicitly pointing out the flaw in this comparison. Even a cursory glance at my 1st response is evidence of that. 

But lets go back to your initial assertion that you “lost a championship because you had a bad kicker while your opponent’s Gano scored 25” (paraphrasing)

never mind that you had a whole team besides a kicker to help you to that loss.

and never mind that your kicker choked & your opponent’s kicker blew up. (which, to my point; is super random)

By your logic, i can safely assume your kicker also helped to get you to the LCG? You won a bunch of games during the year & presumably also playoff games (guessing at your format) with that kicker? 

Most folks “dance with the girl they brought”, so I can only assume you had the same kicker throughout the playoffs. So did you win those games because you had a good kicker? 

Did your kicker suddenly stop being a good kicker once you got got the LCG? 

Was there an injury to your kicker that your opponent was privy to but you were not? (The old insider trading analogy, perhaps?) 

again, I assume not because that’s preposterous. 

So if you had a good kicker through the playoffs but they “lost you the LCG” by being a bad K, how is that possible without taking randomness into account? 

Kickers face random conditions - weather (hot/cold effects ball density, wind, rain, snow mud, dirt (if at Oakland), flying batteries (in Philly) & more importantly, they face random usage (did their starting QB or other elite contributors get hurt? Did their opponent lose a DB or other key defensive players?), did a kick get blocked? Did the snapper get hurt? (I had this happen once & my K got 0 because they couldn’t snap a ball to the holder for my really good K) - so the number of attempts can vary game to game, week to week, season to season as well. It is literally a position that scores at the mercy of what the offense gives them.

kickers don’t run the ball, throw the ball or catch the ball. They come out when their team is in a position to kick a FG. And even then sometimes they don’t (see: Sturgis with LAC first when they went for 2 early, and later, down 2 scores inside 4 mins) where the team goes for rhe 1st or the TD instead. 

This is simple, deductive logic. It’s not like the stock market in the slightest. It has nothing to do with insider trading or even informational analysis. The only information you need is whether they’re a good kicker (e.g. a top 12 guy in a 12 person league, preferably in the top half to be above average). The rest is a dice roll week to week. And even the #1 guy isn’t the #1 guy every single week. Greg Zurlien will have 4 point weeks when his team wins 28-6.  And the scrubby K on the other side will outscore Greg the Leg by 2 that week. It happens every year, every week. It just doesn’t happen to the same two kickers every week because = random. 

So unless you think stocks are all performing within about the same 5% of each other on an average annual basis with huge weekly spikes & valleys, it’s a really bad analogy.

an eloquently stated one to be sure, but still completely and utterly irrelevant to kickers. 

Good luck with your kicker this week. I’m sure they’ll either win it or lose it for ya.  

 

[Arodin]

Whoever said there wasn't any worthwhile discussion to be had about kickers is clearly wrong.  As a statistics nerd, this thread has become music to my ears!

 

[Shawn]

Can we just talk about kickers, and not argue about weather or not they are relevant, and not muddy the post with games? Is that hard to do? I have won many close games with Zurlein or Butker...

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Can we just talk about kickers, and not argue about weather or not they are relevant, and not muddy the post with games? Is that hard to do? I have won many close games with Zurlein or Butker...

Debating the philosophy of the importance of kickers, how much to invest (or not)  is far more relevant to the Kickers topic than coming in here complaining about people who are debating the philosophy of the importance of kickers in the kickers topic.

I’m just sayin. 

 

[Shawn]

Debating the philosophy of the importance of kickers, how much to invest (or not)  is far more relevant to the Kickers topic than coming in here complaining about people who are debating the philosophy of the importance of kickers in the kickers topic.

I’m just sayin. 

OK so lets do that? We don't need a game within a thread we come to for information. I don't like scrolling through 20 posts with just a name and a number to see if any new relevant info has been posted. I don't know about the rest of you?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

OK so lets do that? We don't need a game within a thread we come to for information. I don't like scrolling through 20 posts with just a name and a number to see if any new relevant info has been posted. I don't know about the rest of you?

Have you tried Rotoworld?

i just checked and there is literally zero news about kickers right now.