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I also hate when an owner replies with “ counter?” after their trade was rejected. Just because I didn’t like an offer doesn’t mean it automatically requires me to go look at your roster and come up with a counter. I may be inclined to if I feel like it, but I never frown on it if my offer is rejected without a counter. Nor should it require one.
I call this "always playing for next year". Problem is when you do that every year you are never playing for this year and it makes it really impossible to ever win. I think there is always at least one guy in every dynasty league that does this.
We do this. You have to pay for one full year in advance and always have that on account. We have actually used that when an owner unexpectantly left last minute with a bad roster. Someone got that year for free because we didn't give back his reserve.
But what if someone trades away picks 2 years into the future? Do they have to pay 2 years ahead? I think this should be a must.
Yes. Our reserve is two years of franchise fees.
The more I think about what I posted, regarding those requesting a counter, are usually those that never intended on making a serious offer, but instead made the offer for the sole purpose of you making the first serious offer. This goes back to what I talked about in the OP and other posts. Some people are incapable of making a great offer out of the gate and would much rather you did. Not all have this intention, but some do. You can usually tell.
Almost never is what I said
One thing I do is to make an offer listing players I have interest in. I don't include anything on my side but will put a note asking the other owner to give me an idea of players/picks off my roster that he has interest in or likes. I don't want them to make an offer. I just want them to narrow down my options so that when I do make an offer it has meaning and will include things the other guy wants. This helps a lot otherwise I am just guessing and that can be an issue in itself.
This goes back to my last post before this one.
The last sentence is bad for dynasty leagues. Also, dynasty owners that never improve are bad for dynasty leagues. Everyone makes bad trades, but if you don’t improve, everyone suffers eventually. League competency is the cornerstone of any league.
Agreed.
That's his way of telling you he knows he lowballed you and he wants you to do all the work so he can get what he wants. Instant delete for me.
Yes. Pay for any year you trade the picks. MFL, at least the way we have it set up only goes two years out in my main league (treasurer, able to help the commish when needed).
This is overlooked often imo. Always be decent until the other person refuses to be. Then ignore. But we play this game, and frequent these boards, to be sorta social.
after years of laughing at people that would not negotiate with me because the "trade calculator" said not to, I just started poking around with a couple recently since I joined my 1st dynasty league. I guess it is an OK place to try to get an idea, but so far can't say they've helped get anything done. I do like the lists of recent trades involving the players as that can get my creative juices flowing, but that too has yet to end with a successful trade.
yes. the week after Shaun Alexander took over the starting RB job for the Seahawks I got black out drunk and traded him for Az Hakim (at best a top bench option for my team) and some RB from the Browns (no idea what I was thinking here as he was barely rosterable). I had no idea I had sent the offer until I saw the email for the completed trade and then a few minutes after that the commissioner called me to see what I was thinking.
Yes.
Username checks out.Yes.
Not that I recall but I do remember dropping a QB back in 2001. He has played fairly well but didn’t seem to be anything special. I wonder whatever happened to #12 from the patriots.
Same reason people turn down most offers less than $50 in the I offer, you accept or deny experiment.
I try to target that personality constantly.
No, I think that's fair and starts a discussion. If you offered him a 4th and told him Adams sucks, went to a worse situation, and 30+ year old WR always stink so he should sell him for your 4th that's where I would laugh at you and ignore you.
This is why they call it the shark pool
Again, fair comment to start a discussion. He's not misrepresenting Spears to you like you're an idiot and clearly stating what he wants. I don't know his initial offer to you but if you want Kincaid, then totally fair and smart to shoot something over with Spears and Kincaid. Not that you asked but I don't see a lot of difference between the two.
I use several to get a ballpark of whether my initial salvo is “fair” or reasonable.
The better way, in my opinion, is to reach out directly without the offer.
Good. Ignorance is bliss sometimes. How does this guy do in your league? Does he treat other owners the same way? I wonder if he makes a point to get under others' skin and sees it as a competitive advantage.
I send out lots of offers. I keep my trading blocks up to date and often include details like "looking for WR" or "looking for 2:1 player deals" or one of my absolutely personal favorites - "I have room to take on one or two of your roster cuts and can provide a 2:1 or 3:1"
Yeah same here. Probably not 90% for me but maybe 70%. My experience is that most owners are too stingy and I'm too cheap to put up with it most of the time. And what that means is that most of the deals I make are ones where I have made a strong first offer (and often too strong) or a very strong counter offer after I had made an initial offer, partner countered and then I re-countered. The deals I make where my partner initiated the trade are usually so lopsided in my favor IMO that I "run to the keyboard" as they say. Which is funny because that's usually where I already am.
I definitely don't approach it that way and it's one of the biggest reasons I have soured on dynasty. Super stingy and super crappy managers that are bent on haggling don't make good trade partners. I don't ever try to make my first offer my best offer but I always try to make it good. Except if I think the owner might be dumb enough to do something dumb, I will lowball and throw garbage against the wall with zero regard for my reputation. Ask my fellow SP leaguemates from a $250 FFPC 1QB Dynasty league we've been in for a few years now about how I hit up every single OTC owner with something just maybe sort of almost on par with the value point. Not because they're dumb, quite the contrary, but because I am a lowballer for sure. If I can gut you I will.
Yes. For fantasy points and the dollars that can come with them. But not for players and draft picks.
Not really. I trust my process and I definitely believe in the notion that if you're not "losing" a trade once in a while then you aren't making enough of them.
I'm not even sure how someone might go about doing it any other way.
See above. My poker background overlaps a lot of my FF strategies.
I wrote an article a few years back that showed a correlation between the number of trades in a league and *my* success. It is harder to dominate in less active leagues. It is much much much harder to rebuild. And it's often because of many of the reasons you brought up.
You answered your own question. They get a thrill out of it and simply can't do it without countering. My suspicion is they are so terribly afraid of losing a deal, or of looking like a beta, that like you said they simply can't.
Yes, as I mentioned in my longer response, and it has paid major dividends and honestly it's sort of Business 101 stuff.
This is such a bigger deal than most owners realize. It absolutely helps to advertise. It's really important. Especially with studs.
I wrote an article a few years back that correlated (my) success with overall completed trade volume from league to league.
Maybe something similar to the difference in being told that this car you're being offered costs $25,000, has less than 5,000 miles on it and you'll need $2000 down and monthly payments will be $400 a month... compared to being told "don't you want to look good when you're driving around town? what's that car you're driving now? A 1993 Toyota Camry? Pfffft You need to take this deal"
this is also why taking over an orphan is a fascinating experience if you haven't done it
This is the way and is exactly what I'm talking about.
dynastyfootballfactory.com
