The Red Pill - Men's Rights Movement Documentary (1 Viewer)

[Dedfin]

Yes, I admit it's kind of lame of me to jump into discussion of a documentary I haven't watched ... but if you can't be lame on the Internet, where can you be?

In a wheelchair?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Semi witty?  You wound me, sir.

I've experienced lots of MRA arguments.  This isn't some new topic for me.  I've found the arguments terribly disingenuous.  Men are more likely to be the victims of crime.  They are also much more likely to be offender in violent crimes.  If you want to argue that men are a frequent victim of toxic masculinity, maybe that's an interesting discussion.  But to post the homicide victimization rate and the "domestic violence" victimization rate without posting the homicide offender rate and the stark discrepancy between the likelihood of female victim of domestic violence being killed or maimed versus that of a male victim is completely bogus. 

It seems the fact that men are most often both offenders and victims of violent crime, as compared to women, supports the Red Pillers' fundamental position. Certainly, its a better life if one is neither a victim nor a purveyor of violence. Similarly, does the fact that men are responsible for the great majority of domestic violence indicate we hold a favored position in society?  Its hard to imagine how miserable your life must be to go home at the end of the day and beat up on your family. I pity both participants in that ugly game, and its offensive to me this is seen as a problem with the male gender and not society's problem.

 

[Kafka]

I'm pretty lame wherever I am.   

Which leg?

 

[RokNRole]

It seems the fact that men are most often both offenders and victims of violent crime, as compared to women, supports the Red Pillers' fundamental position. Certainly, its a better life if one is neither a victim nor a purveyor of violence. Similarly, does the fact that men are responsible for the great majority of domestic violence indicate we hold a favored position in society?  Its hard to imagine how miserable your life must be to go home at the end of the day and beat up on your family. I pity both participants in that ugly game, and its offensive to me this is seen as a problem with the male gender and not society's problem.

Even sadder we will never know how often domestic violence goes the other way because men are embarrassed to report it. I only have anecdotal evidence but it is way more prevelant than most would think.

 

[fatness]

Even sadder we will never know how often domestic violence goes the other way because men are embarrassed to report it. I only have anecdotal evidence but it is way more prevelant than most would think.

I, on the other hand, got laid tonight.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I watched about the first 25 minutes while at the gym yesterday.  The film is made by a self-described feminist, who has done other documentaries on feminism and LGBT issues, but was curious about looking into the topic.  I think the Red Pill title references the website run by Paul Elam, a leading men's rights activist.

I do think that there are some legitimate issues that these guys may have, but it feels like they are disparate and being cobbled together into an uncohesive "movement".  Not to mention the fact that so much of the stuff that their "followers" seem to post is so clearly hateful and misogynistic.

To be honest, I feel like these guys at the core of the movement are probably sensitive, but they are kind of ####### who don't want to admit they are ####### and want to be as validated as all other "masculine" dudes, and then channel their energy into whining instead of just doing something or being good with themselves..  And I say this as someone who probably would be considered a ##### by many.

 

[-OZ-]

I watched about the first 25 minutes while at the gym yesterday.  The film is made by a self-described feminist, who has done other documentaries on feminism and LGBT issues, but was curious about looking into the topic.  I think the Red Pill title references the website run by Paul Elam, a leading men's rights activist.

I do think that there are some legitimate issues that these guys may have, but it feels like they are disparate and being cobbled together into an uncohesive "movement".  Not to mention the fact that so much of the stuff that their "followers" seem to post is so clearly hateful and misogynistic.

To be honest, I feel like these guys at the core of the movement are probably sensitive, but they are kind of ####### who don't want to admit they are ####### and want to be as validated as all other "masculine" dudes, and then channel their energy into whining instead of just doing something or being good with themselves..  And I say this as someone who probably would be considered a ##### by many.

Planet fitness? 

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Planet fitness? 

negative

 

[NCCommish]

I haven't seen this unbiased documentary about the MRA funded primarily by the MRA. Always a good sign you are getting the unvarnished truth. However I am familiar with their leadership. And i wouldn't give them the time of day much less give them a view. These are guys who have said things like "If I was ever seated on a jury in a rape trial I would automatically vote not guilty regardless of the evidence" and that's actually one of the less vile quotes. Yeah thanks but no thanks.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Director Cassie Jaye initially struggled to find financiers who did not have "an agenda."[5] Jaye got the film off the ground with her own money as well as money from her mother, a co-producer, and her boyfriend.[2] After it became known that the film would not condemn the men's rights movement, Jaye was unable to find funding to cover the cost of the movie from traditional sources.[1][6] She instead started a campaign on the crowdfunding platform Kickstarter, which she called a last resort.[5] The Kickstarter project promised to be a "fair and balanced" look at the men's rights movement.[5] The effort was strongly criticized by some feminists[who?] but received support from Breitbart News columnist Milo Yiannopoulos.[7][8] In the end, the campaign exceeded its goal of $97,000 as well as two stretch goals to raise a total of $211,260.[9]

Alan Scherstuhl's review for The Village Voice suggested that many of those providing funding for the film may have themselves been men's rights activists, thereby creating a conflict of interest.[10] Jaye has said that the suggestion the film was funded by MRAs (men's rights activists) is "a common lie that keeps spreading,"[2] despite the fact one of the largest pledges to the film was by anti-feminist and men's rights supporter Mike Cernovich, who pledged $10,000 to the Kickstarter project.[5] Still, Jaye maintained that "our five highest backers ... are neither MRA nor feminist. I would say three out of five of them didn't even know about the men's rights movement, but wanted to defend free speech,"[5]and that the film's backers and producers would have no influence or control of the film.[2][5]

 

[[scooter]]

I think it's possible that men get the short end of the stick in certain contexts -- possibly in custody disputes, for example.

But you don't need a generalized "men's rights movement" (which sounds kind of silly) to deal with that; just have an "equality in custody" movement, or whatever movements would address the particular wrongs these people care about. (I know nothing about the MRA and therefore have no idea what issues they emphasize; the custody thing is just the first possibility that came to mind, and I'm having trouble coming up with others off the top of my head.)

"I think it's possible that black people get the short end of the stick in certain contexts, but you don't need a generalized 'Black Lives Matter' movement to deal with that. Just have an 'equality in criminal justice' movement, or whatever movements would address the particular wrongs black people care about."

 

[NCCommish]

"I think it's possible that black people get the short end of the stick in certain contexts, but you don't need a generalized 'Black Lives Matter' movement to deal with that. Just have an 'equality in criminal justice' movement, or whatever movements would address the particular wrongs black people care about."

Are you really comparing the white male experience with that of the black male in this country? Seriously?

 

[-OZ-]

Are you really comparing the white male experience with that of the black male in this country? Seriously?

Next up - the millionaire movement, followed by the heterosexual movement.

 

[Ignoramus]

would a guy want to?

face it, women's correctional facilities  aren't  exactly teeming wif 'hotties'

I take it you've never seen "Caged Heat."

 

[Tom Servo]

What does "red pill" refer to? 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It seems the fact that men are most often both offenders and victims of violent crime, as compared to women, supports the Red Pillers' fundamental position. Certainly, its a better life if one is neither a victim nor a purveyor of violence. Similarly, does the fact that men are responsible for the great majority of domestic violence indicate we hold a favored position in society?  Its hard to imagine how miserable your life must be to go home at the end of the day and beat up on your family. I pity both participants in that ugly game, and its offensive to me this is seen as a problem with the male gender and not society's problem.

This is probably a highly simplistic take that glosses over all sorts of sociological structures, but I mainly attribute men's elevated rate of violent criminal offense to testosterone.  My guess is that men would commit more crimes than women (and put themselves in positions to become a victim) no matter how society operated.  

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

What does "red pill" refer to? 

From the Matrix.  Like, if you take the pill you see the truth and can never go back to your old life.

 

[Sabertooth]

I've read some of their stuff.  I think a lot of it is Aspies trying to relate to women.  There is a personal improvement angle that can help people.  Taking responsibility for your own happiness isn't exactly a popular notion right now. 

 

[James Daulton]

As I've mentioned in the past, another board I frequent filled with young, largely blue collar guys is convinced that white men are discriminated against.  They feel that feminism, globalism, affirmative action, etc. are all a threat to bring down western culture and men's roles within.  It's truly frightening and when you point out that our country's most powerful positions are held by white men to such an overwhelming overrepresentation they'll simply say those men were the most qualified.   

And these guys all love guns and apparently have a ton of them.  So we've got that going for us.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Is there a pool where we guess how many neckbeards and fedoras we'll see?

Yes, the shark pool.   the answer is All of them.  

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I do think that there are some legitimate issues that these guys may have, but it feels like they are disparate and being cobbled together into an uncohesive "movement".  Not to mention the fact that so much of the stuff that their "followers" seem to post is so clearly hateful and misogynistic.

This nails it, IMO.   Not unlike a lot of other groups.   Take PETA, for example.   Some of their core philosophies are something I can generally get behind, but when you take the whole package of the battles they choose and the masses of dip####s, idiots, and other nutjobs that make up the majority of their ranks....

Yeah, Pass.   I'm good.

 

[IC FBGCav]

Again until you watch the movie not really much you are talking about I can relate too.  But at least most of you seem pretty entrench on your position on something you have not watched, so you got that going for you.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Why would we need to watch a curated documentary about the movement when we've all experienced the movement, and the type of people it attracts, first hand? 

 

[IC FBGCav]

Why would we need to watch a curated documentary about the movement when we've all experienced the movement, and the type of people it attracts, first hand? 

Because the topic is about the documentary but obviously you want it to be about being a butthole, you are succeeding.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

The movement is about being a butthole.   Sorry.    

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Because the topic is about the documentary but obviously you want it to be about being a butthole, you are succeeding.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

The point is that when people are exposed to something, and find they don't enjoy it, they generally are not interested in investing 90 minutes of their life on a documentary about it.  I also wouldn't watch a documentary on progressive rock.  That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion about progressive rock.  I still dislike it.  Or you can just conclude that everyone's being unfair to you, which eliminates the mystery of why a documentary on the movement might appeal to you. 

 

[IC FBGCav]

The movement is about being a butthole.   Sorry.    

It might be but I know nothing about it but what was discussed in the documentary.   Know I am not claiming to know anything about this movement without doing any research but people sure know a lot about a documentary they never seen.   Like the losers on here all day really don't have a spare 90 minutes?   Or they can not be interested and ignore the thread.   But to give you 2 cents that don't mean jack because I can't relate to your view because I am discussing   I was trying to discuss a documentary.

 

[IC FBGCav]

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

The point is that when people are exposed to something, and find they don't enjoy it, they generally are not interested in investing 90 minutes of their life on a documentary about it.  I also wouldn't watch a documentary on progressive rock.  That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion about progressive rock.  I still dislike it.  Or you can just conclude that everyone's being unfair to you, which eliminates the mystery of why a documentary on the movement might appeal to you. 

Yep, soccer sucks and is for losers.

 

[IC FBGCav]

Also, I seen fans throw banana's a black players, they are all racist too.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Yep, soccer sucks and is for losers.

But you haven't even read Football in Sun and Shade!
 

 

[joffer]

lol

 

[IC FBGCav]

But you haven't even read Football in Sun and Shade!
 

I don't support racists.

 

[Steve Tasker]

To be honest, I feel like these guys at the core of the movement are probably sensitive, but they are kind of ####### who don't want to admit they are ####### and want to be as validated as all other "masculine" dudes, and then channel their energy into whining instead of just doing something or being good with themselves..  And I say this as someone who probably would be considered a ##### by many.

Sounds like textbook Nice Guy Syndrome to me.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Sounds like textbook Nice Guy Syndrome to me.

I love that the Shakesville article prompted this comment criticizing the piece (which unintentionally works as a pitch perfect parody of Nice Guy Syndrome).

As a self-described nice guy, I guess I'm going to be viewed with suspicion... but some of your points are a little bit annoying to me personally.

I don't hate women. I like them quite a bit, really, but it hurts to get rejected over and over because you're "too nice" or because she sees you "like a brother." Many of us (myself included) start out by taking this at face value. We remain friends with the girl even after we've asked her out and been shot down, listening to her problems and sometimes staying up with her far into the night if something particularly bad has gone down. It's usually not reciprocated; no man goes to a woman and says "This other woman rejected me. :( It's really depressing," but I can promise there have been a lot of guys who get called at two o'clock in the morning to come pick up a woman who has rejected him because her confident, manly boyfriend has thrown her to the curb.

By the time you're in your late twenties, it's pointless. You have enough one-way friendships. More than enough. You ask some woman out and she says "I'm sorry, I just don't see you that way," you say "alright" and walk away. Furthermore, sometimes you see the real and honest-to-god evidence that you are a 'backup plan.' A woman spends her late teens, early twenties with a succession of men she complains about (to you), then gets pregnant and is staring down a bleak existence as a single mom, and there you are.

"So, nice guy, I was thinking..."

A spineless pushover says "Sure, girl for whom I have been a free psychologist for a decade, I will give you access to my assets and income in order to allow you to escape the consequences of your actions and so that I might get to have sex with you. I hope you didn't catch anything from any of your seventeen boyfriends!"

"Sixteen."

"You're forgetting Greg, I bet. Remember? You spent the weekend with him two years ago."

"Oh! Right."

""

On the other hand, the more sensible reaction is: "I'm sorry, I just don't see you that way anymore." See how long that friendship survives. You'd better have a thick skin. You're going to get called a lot of bad names. The size of your penis may also be insulted. You may be informed that you aren't a real man.