Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
I always love this formulation. One group runs up $17 trillion in debt and $60 trillion in unfunded liabilities, but the crazy group is the one that calls bullshiot on this.
Jewell
Footballguy
While a break has been a long time coming and is probably necessary, the two factions of the Republican party are like a symbiotic relationship that needs each other. They both recognize, or should recognize, that they would get trounced by the Democrats on the national level without pooling their bases together. Even with pooling their bases they will likely still get trounced by the Democrats during future Presidential elections.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
If the funny three-cornered hat fits, I guess.
The Commish
Footballguy
What I find funny now is the change in message. A week ago it was "repeal obamacare"....now it's "we just want everyone in the system with us" and "we just want Obama to treat the people like he does companies". The latter is not a bad argument as a lot of us raised it as an initial question when he gave the waivers in the first place...glad they're finally catching up. Now if they can get out of their own way to get the point across, they might be making some progress.
I doubt anyone can provide a reasonable answer to "If you leave enrollment open and allow people to sign up for healthcare, why can't you rollback the mandate like you did for big business?" I personally see no issue with this solution. If the concern is "access to healthcare" as some suggest, they provided that access as of last Monday.
I doubt anyone can provide a reasonable answer to "If you leave enrollment open and allow people to sign up for healthcare, why can't you rollback the mandate like you did for big business?" I personally see no issue with this solution. If the concern is "access to healthcare" as some suggest, they provided that access as of last Monday.
Right, the people who refuse to increase any revenue are really serious about the debt and funding the liabilities.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
This is what the interview boiled down to which is summarized in the final exchange for those too lazy to watch:
MITCHELL: I can't defend why Congress and the White House cannot figure out a way to reopen the government so that our kids and their families can get the benefits that they have been --
DUFFY: I told you we're going to do that this week. But I want your viewers to know that this has been a reasonable approach on our part to go everyone equal under the law, the president and Congress in Obamacare. If it's good for America, it's good enough for the people who passed the law and individuals for one year being treated like big businesses who came to this hill with their lobbyists and got an exemption to the taxes and requirements of Obamacare. Give that same treatment to the families in America. And again, this has nothing to do with the exchanges being open or the subsidies in the exchanges. We're not having any impact on those. They get to stand up and run. We're just saying, treat individuals and families like big business, and have Obama go into Obamacare. That's it. No one's asked that question but Jon Stewart. I think the media should start doing its job.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yikes. I am not about to defend any Republican at this juncture, but Andrea Mitchell could not have been any more clueless in that exchange.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
that's called N-E-G-O-T-I-A-T-I-O-N.
Liberals keep incorrectly repeating that the R's are holding government hostage because the D's won't repeal Obamacare...
Last edited by a moderator:
msommer
Footballguy
So you think the Tea Party will not win any seats in the places they have out primaried establishment republicans in the last elections if they stand as their own party? And no place where the republicans have an establishment congressman could a third (Tea) party candidate take that seat? Even when energised by 'treachery' by Boehner and the rest of the republican establishment?
The Commish
Footballguy
And conservatives keep incorrectly repeating that the Ds are holding government hostage because Obama won't negotiate. You're all in the same "point the fingers" boat rowing in opposite direction and spinning the country in circles as a result. Yay morons??
Fennis
Footballguy
Scoresman
Footballguy
No, its called realizing that the President wasn't going to budge and trying to save face anyway they can.
Fennis
Footballguy
MITCHELL: That is very rude of you!
DUFFY: It's time to stop being polite... and start getting real.
dparker713
Footballguy
I wasn't aware there was a tax increase plan proposed that would pay off the debt and fund the $60 trillion.
Repealing the Bush tax cuts would have done most of this
The point is that you can't pretend to be serious about the debt while saying taxes can't increase.
Who said that? The group I was referring to are the Dems and Repubs that Tim calls the "grownups".
Both parties have colluded together to get us where we are.
Boston
Footballguy
Underneath her it should say:
Andrea Mitchell D-MSNBC
She's such a fraud...just have the balls to admit what you are...I have zero issues with left or right-wing media members as long as they are up-front about it...Mitchell pretends she doesn't have a bias but she's only fooling herself...
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
save face by trying to negotiate with a man who said he would veto any attempt to negotiate or the man that said he would "talk" after he was given what he wanted?
Can't argue with that brilliant logic!
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I wouldn't say 'any' seats, but in races where a Democrat, Republican and a Tea Party candidate were all running the Dems would win a large majority of those races.
They'd probably lose in districts that currently vote, say 65-70%+ for Republicans. There are plenty of those, but there are also an awful lot of districts where Republicans are currently winning between 50.1% and 65% too.
And that's even before some smallish portion of moderate Republicans start voting with Dems to avoid having a Tea Partier from their district.
It's hard to divy up the votes in a way that a nationwide Tea Party candidate in every district would result in anything except a perpetually Democratic Congress.
Last edited by a moderator:
Scoresman
Footballguy
He was 100% right to do that.
Negotiations on Obamacare are OVER. The GOP tried 43 times to kill it, all unsuccessful attempts. They took it to the Supreme Court and lost most of their claim. It's a three year old law now. You don't always get what you want in a representative democracy or a democracy. So you can't morally or ethically hold the American economy hostage because you didn't get your way. That was why the shutdown started and now, the republicans are trying to say that this wasn't what it was all about.
It's a very rare instance where one party is 100% to blame for a political issue, but this is one of those cases.
Jewell
Footballguy
Fitting, because there's a bunch of ##### and ##### on Capitol Hill.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
So simple, even a Tea Partier can understand it:
Last edited by a moderator:
And this is fine. The system right now has no accountability because the Dems and Repubs agree on about 90% of the unsustainable spending we have. A gigantic ruling party representing Big Business, Big Labor, Big Government, Big Defense, etc opposed by some smaller parties would be OK with me. At least then, one party would exclusively own the coming mother of all popped bubbles.
bagger
Footballguy
True, but time to work on the problem isn't a compromise - it is just a delay. It's what I'd like to see, anyway.
Seriously, some of the folks in Washington are idiots, but many aren't. Cruz (the lightning rod), for all you may dislike him, is brilliant.
In a thread filled with stupidity, this argument is right up there with the leaders. Saying that there will be no negotiations over a 3 year old law, most of which hasn't even been implemented yet and which has already been altered several times, is absurd. I agree this isn't the forum for it, but we're no where near done modifying it.
Fennis
Footballguy
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Nobody is holding the American economy hostage.
The bill/law has changed since it passed the House. You can keep ignorantly repeating yourself by saying this is about the GOP's attempt to KILL it, but the interview you are responding to he clearly says it is live people can sign up for it and THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE, they are not trying to kill it, he is trying to put businesses and the American people on a level playing field since the American people do not have lobbyists fighting for them for these penalties being assigned to them in year 1.
But keep repeating the Dem's talking points since you are ignoring what is being said to you.
Scoresman
Footballguy
They absolutely are.Nobody is holding the American economy hostage.
shader
Footballguy
Scoresman
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Once this gets settled, can we finally bomb Syria?
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
The libs don't care if the law has changed and if deals have been made with big business, those are just insignificant details to them. They keep screaming the R's are being pissy because the D's won't repeal it all the while ignoring what is really going on so they can point fingers at the R's for being stubborn.
Sand
Footballguy
Well, you're right in one sense. Now it is simply being changed administratively by the executive branch. What we have now certainly isn't the bill that was passed; it has been substantially changed. Frankly, I don't see why we are bothering to try to negotiate over this when the Obama is simply changing it as he desires.
The only recourse for the government when the executive is taking too much power and arbitrarily changing a law is to wield the power of the purse. Oh, wait...
pantagrapher
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I know this post will work against the people who keep accusing me of being Chicken Little (and I wouldn't want to do that!) but the news this morning makes me think this is all going to work out. My prediction:
The House passes a 6 week extension of the debt ceiling. This will give Obama the excuse to enter into negotiations. (I know wdcrop and others think he should stay firm and demand an end to the shutdown as well before he negotiates, but I don't think he will. He said yesterday that he would welcome a short term debt extension. That tells me that he will be willing to deal once it's done.)
The discussion will feature items both sides want- look for Paul Ryan's op-ed piece in the WSJ yesterday to provide clues. The device tax will be eliminated; that's easy, because everybody wants that. The sequester will be replaced with more targeted cuts; both sides want that as well. There probably won't be any real changes to entitlements or taxes until 2014, but the debt ceiling will ultimately be extended until that point.
Both sides will claim victory of course. The Tea Party will be extremely unhappy, but in the end all their talk about leaving the party will come to very little. Obamacare is here to stay for the moment, but there will be significant changes over time, especially if too many people are facing higher costs as Republicans are charging. But we will never go back to what we had before. Eventually we may go forward toward single payer.
The House passes a 6 week extension of the debt ceiling. This will give Obama the excuse to enter into negotiations. (I know wdcrop and others think he should stay firm and demand an end to the shutdown as well before he negotiates, but I don't think he will. He said yesterday that he would welcome a short term debt extension. That tells me that he will be willing to deal once it's done.)
The discussion will feature items both sides want- look for Paul Ryan's op-ed piece in the WSJ yesterday to provide clues. The device tax will be eliminated; that's easy, because everybody wants that. The sequester will be replaced with more targeted cuts; both sides want that as well. There probably won't be any real changes to entitlements or taxes until 2014, but the debt ceiling will ultimately be extended until that point.
Both sides will claim victory of course. The Tea Party will be extremely unhappy, but in the end all their talk about leaving the party will come to very little. Obamacare is here to stay for the moment, but there will be significant changes over time, especially if too many people are facing higher costs as Republicans are charging. But we will never go back to what we had before. Eventually we may go forward toward single payer.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Good info here.I don't recall him ever being under the line.Matthias said:over the linelol, awesome! Timschoosh has a defender. I hope we can expect to see you post whenever anyone criticizes your little have it every which way buddy.Is this kind of crap really necessary?TimSqooshhole, you are Tea Party-lite because you are ok providing cover to them in the GOP if they keep quiet, pitch in and vote the way you want. You are fine giving KooKs the veneer of respectability for decades in the Republican Party but whine and moan relentlessly the minute your voting partners start actually pressing their own positions.timschochet said:Well, those are the people that I HOPE leave the GOP.Actually, that's not true. They can stay They're useful as voters and for money. They just shouldn't be allowed to have a say when it really matters. Leave that to the grownups.Jewell said:
TimScrotusm, you have no soul, no principles, no credibility, no sense of humor, no sack, and you are a giant squishball who constantly vomits nonsense all over the FFA, to boot.
msommer
Footballguy
I agree for presidential and senate elections but I think they could get a good amount of people elected for the congress - but likely fewer than they have today.
Democratic majority might happen (could even be likely) but you could also end with three parties without majority except if two actually work together on case by case. True grislock would be if partisan politics continue in such a situation, the other two parties would simply vote no to everything the party in government would suggest.
timschochet
Footballguy
Obama just announced that with the debt ceiling raise, he is willing to negotiate over "broad, budget issues". 
Telling you guys, this is going to get done fairly quickly now.
Telling you guys, this is going to get done fairly quickly now.
timschochet
Footballguy
Boehner about to speak.
