The Tea Party is back in business! (2 Viewers)

[Fennis]

to which you said:

I like mustard.

To which I said:

ewww, not me.

To which you said:

yep.

 

[Fennis]

Terrible analogy checklist.

- Jim Crow Laws

- Slavery

- Terrorists

- Hitler

- Zimmerman

Yep, all well covered here.

So, Zimmerman and Hitler are in a sauna together....

 

[jon_mx]

Terrible analogy checklist.

- Jim Crow Laws

- Slavery

- Terrorists

- Hitler

- Zimmerman

Yep, all well covered here.

So, Zimmerman and Hitler are in a sauna together....

Which one do you save?

 

[The Football Freak]

Any

 

[Scoresman]

All over conservative/Tea Party websites and blogs, and talk show hosts, the same phrase is being repeated: "STAND YOUR GROUND!"

It seems that the House Republicans are George Zimmerman, and President Obama is Trayvon Martin.

I like to think of it as the House Reublicans are hitler (literally) and Obama is Anne Frank.

You may be wound a little too tight.

How about Republicans are Lilliputian?

It was the literally thing. Andy D would not be happy with the usage there, so it's good he didn't see it. I mean, the GOP isn't putting people on trains just yet. So, while we can not like our political opponents, we need not go that far.

Lilliputian is too nice. Right now, they are coolectively the dumbest group of weakass dumb that any party has been in our government since the dems during the civil war.

Has the "XXXX is literally hitler" meme not reached the FFA yet or something?

 

[The Football Freak]

Any of you see the CNN interview with Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's? He said that memo that is being touted by the republicans was "not from his department," and that not raising the debt ceiling and the default would be an "unmitigated disaster." It was in an interview with Wolf Blitzer. He really set himself as diametrically opposed to the opinion that it wasn't that bad, and even alluded to his department agreeing with him with the "not from my department" line.

 

[The Commish]

You won't read this, but i"m going to post it anyway....so they are now "negotiating" on things that have no impact to the budget. By "negotiating" back to this level and wanting the mandate to be delayed for people like it was for companies they are moving from behind the "budget/finance" rock and showing that they just want to stall Obamacare. Whether the government is part of the plan or not is immaterial to the budgetary bottom line. So now what?

Why are you bringing up the budget? I assume you are replying to the wrong post.

The GOP took the position of "it might be a law, but we don't have to fund it". Now I'm even wondering if you're reading your talking points memo. I agree, I shouldn't have to bring up the budget, but the GOP's essentially taken an issue that belongs in the bill process and hooked it to the budget by pulling out the defunding card.

Well, by taking away the defunding part of this and backtracking er "negotiating" to equal treatment of individuals and companies, it takes the budgetary aspect out of it.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Telling you guys, this is going to get done fairly quickly now.

Just calling it as I see it.BTW, Slapdash, yesterday you called Obama an idiot for saying he would not use the 14th Amendment in the event the House did not raise the debt ceiling. I've just been listening to legal expert Jeffrey Toobin, and he makes a very convincing argument (at least to me) as to why Obama was right to do this, and you are wrong.

Toobin explained that nobody really knows whether or not Obama has the legal right to invoke the 14th- it would have to go to the Supreme Court. In doing so, that would create the same uncertainty to our marketplace that using the 14th would be designed to prevent. Therefore, even though Obama MIGHT have the legal power to do so, it would be incredibly unwise for him to actually do it. As Toobin explained, it's a non-starter. Thoughts?

The 14th amendment provides the debt must be serviced first. Since there is more revenue coming into the government then is required to service the debt, defaulting is not an option.

No interest payments are due until 31 October, when $5.9 billion in interest is to be paid. Thus, a Treasury bond default is not technically possible until that date. Moreover, given that the amount that needs to be paid is relatively small, a default is also extremely unlikely.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Any of you see the CNN interview with Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's? He said that memo that is being touted by the republicans was "not from his department," and that not raising the debt ceiling and the default would be an "unmitigated disaster." It was in an interview with Wolf Blitzer. He really set himself as diametrically opposed to the opinion that it wasn't that bad, and even alluded to his department agreeing with him with the "not from my department" line.

And you will not see that splashed across the screen on a >>>>>>>>>>>>FOX NEWS ALERT<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[humpback]

Any of you see the CNN interview with Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's? He said that memo that is being touted by the republicans was "not from his department," and that not raising the debt ceiling and the default would be an "unmitigated disaster." It was in an interview with Wolf Blitzer. He really set himself as diametrically opposed to the opinion that it wasn't that bad, and even alluded to his department agreeing with him with the "not from my department" line.

No idea about the memo (wouldn't surprise me either way), but it's no surprise that Zandi would have that opinion on the debt ceiling.

 

[spreagle]

Telling you guys, this is going to get done fairly quickly now.

Just calling it as I see it. BTW, Slapdash, yesterday you called Obama an idiot for saying he would not use the 14th Amendment in the event the House did not raise the debt ceiling. I've just been listening to legal expert Jeffrey Toobin, and he makes a very convincing argument (at least to me) as to why Obama was right to do this, and you are wrong. Toobin explained that nobody really knows whether or not Obama has the legal right to invoke the 14th- it would have to go to the Supreme Court. In doing so, that would create the same uncertainty to our marketplace that using the 14th would be designed to prevent. Therefore, even though Obama MIGHT have the legal power to do so, it would be incredibly unwise for him to actually do it. As Toobin explained, it's a non-starter. Thoughts?

The 14th amendment provides the debt must be serviced first. Since there is more revenue coming into the government then is required to service the debt, defaulting is not an option.

I find it odd that there is no formal priority for paying debts, should the US government not be able to pay its debts for whatever reason. We have backup plans for everything except paying debts? As it stands, debt payment prioritization seems to be however the president/congress at the time chooses to pay its debts. But the real reason there is no priority list probably is that the average American citizen wouldn't like where they sit on the priority chart, which would start with treasury interest, foreign debts and government pensions, and end somewhere around Social Security.

 

[The Football Freak]

Any of you see the CNN interview with Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's? He said that memo that is being touted by the republicans was "not from his department," and that not raising the debt ceiling and the default would be an "unmitigated disaster." It was in an interview with Wolf Blitzer. He really set himself as diametrically opposed to the opinion that it wasn't that bad, and even alluded to his department agreeing with him with the "not from my department" line.

No idea about the memo (wouldn't surprise me either way), but it's no surprise that Zandi would have that opinion on the debt ceiling.

It has been bandied about a lot over the last day or so.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics-live/liveblog/live-updates-the-shutdown-4/?id=c1e3ada3-dc00-41d8-92cb-327c5c814d82

It was a clear distancing by Moody's chief economist from their stated opinion that not raising the debt ceiling and defaulting wouldn't be that bad. I wonder if he will lose his job disagreeing so publicly with his company.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

The GOP took the position of "it might be a law, but we don't have to fund it".

:

the GOP's essentially taken an issue that belongs in the bill process and hooked it to the budget by pulling out the defunding card.

Perfectly legal to shelf it. Don't like it? Change the constitution. It's already been stated the terms of the ACA have changed since it originally passed in the House.

Well, by taking away the defunding part of this and backtracking er "negotiating" to equal treatment of individuals and companies, it takes the budgetary aspect out of it.

Correct, this is why people have been saying the Republicans tried to negotiate but the Democrats stonewalled their attempts and this is not a new development so not sure why it is relevant today (compared to prior to the shutdown). "The message" has never changed. There were a number of attempts to negotiate a solution prior to the shutdown, with the above being one of them.

 

[Phil Elliott]

All over conservative/Tea Party websites and blogs, and talk show hosts, the same phrase is being repeated: "STAND YOUR GROUND!"

It seems that the House Republicans are George Zimmerman, and President Obama is Trayvon Martin.

I like to think of it as the House Reublicans are hitler (literally) and Obama is Anne Frank.

I think you are being too literal.

 

[timschochet]

Sean Hannity was just interviewing some Republican insider, who told him that the House Republicans were looking for a way to end the shut down by this weekend, to go along with the debt ceiling raise. I thought Hannity was going to have a meltdown on the radio.

The most hilarious part is when the insider said, "the feeling in the House is that they've been very successful in getting everything they wanted out of this shutdown, and now it's time to move on. They believe they can get more concessions out of Obama once the shutdown and the debt ceiling are out of the way."



Hannity was flabbergasted.

 

[The Commish]

The GOP took the position of "it might be a law, but we don't have to fund it".

:

the GOP's essentially taken an issue that belongs in the bill process and hooked it to the budget by pulling out the defunding card.

Perfectly legal to shelf it. Don't like it? Change the constitution. It's already been stated the terms of the ACA have changed since it originally passed in the House.

Well, by taking away the defunding part of this and backtracking er "negotiating" to equal treatment of individuals and companies, it takes the budgetary aspect out of it.

Correct, this is why people have been saying the Republicans tried to negotiate but the Democrats stonewalled their attempts and this is not a new development so not sure why it is relevant today (compared to prior to the shutdown). "The message" has never changed. There were a number of attempts to negotiate a solution prior to the shutdown, with the above being one of them.

So if the budget isn't in play....why is the government still shut down again?

 

[quickhands]

All over conservative/Tea Party websites and blogs, and talk show hosts, the same phrase is being repeated: "STAND YOUR GROUND!"

It seems that the House Republicans are George Zimmerman, and President Obama is Trayvon Martin.

are you saying the repubs are gonna kill the president?

 

[The Commish]

Sean Hannity was just interviewing some Republican insider, who told him that the House Republicans were looking for a way to end the shut down by this weekend, to go along with the debt ceiling raise. I thought Hannity was going to have a meltdown on the radio.

The most hilarious part is when the insider said, "the feeling in the House is that they've been very successful in getting everything they wanted out of this shutdown, and now it's time to move on. They believe they can get more concessions out of Obama once the shutdown and the debt ceiling are out of the way."



Hannity was flabbergasted.

As he should be....they aren't getting #### out of Obama....that much is clear.

 

[dparker713]

The 14th amendment provides the debt must be serviced first.

No, it doesn't. It only requires those debts "not be questioned." Failing to service the debt is hardly the same thing as attempting to void the debt or ignore the obligations. And void is really the most apt, since the second sentence essentially voids the debts of the Confederacy.

 

[timschochet]

Sean Hannity was just interviewing some Republican insider, who told him that the House Republicans were looking for a way to end the shut down by this weekend, to go along with the debt ceiling raise. I thought Hannity was going to have a meltdown on the radio.

The most hilarious part is when the insider said, "the feeling in the House is that they've been very successful in getting everything they wanted out of this shutdown, and now it's time to move on. They believe they can get more concessions out of Obama once the shutdown and the debt ceiling are out of the way."



Hannity was flabbergasted.

As he should be....they aren't getting #### out of Obama....that much is clear.

That will be awesome if they do this and then try to spin it as a success, when they gained absolutely NOTHING on Obamacare.

 

[dparker713]

Telling you guys, this is going to get done fairly quickly now.

Just calling it as I see it. BTW, Slapdash, yesterday you called Obama an idiot for saying he would not use the 14th Amendment in the event the House did not raise the debt ceiling. I've just been listening to legal expert Jeffrey Toobin, and he makes a very convincing argument (at least to me) as to why Obama was right to do this, and you are wrong. Toobin explained that nobody really knows whether or not Obama has the legal right to invoke the 14th- it would have to go to the Supreme Court. In doing so, that would create the same uncertainty to our marketplace that using the 14th would be designed to prevent. Therefore, even though Obama MIGHT have the legal power to do so, it would be incredibly unwise for him to actually do it. As Toobin explained, it's a non-starter. Thoughts?

The 14th amendment provides the debt must be serviced first. Since there is more revenue coming into the government then is required to service the debt, defaulting is not an option.

I find it odd that there is no formal priority for paying debts, should the US government not be able to pay its debts for whatever reason. We have backup plans for everything except paying debts? As it stands, debt payment prioritization seems to be however the president/congress at the time chooses to pay its debts. But the real reason there is no priority list probably is that the average American citizen wouldn't like where they sit on the priority chart, which would start with treasury interest, foreign debts and government pensions, and end somewhere around Social Security.

Maybe the real reason is that we're in no danger of needing to prioritize, unless we artificially prevent ourselves from paying our debts.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

The 14th amendment provides the debt must be serviced first.

No, it doesn't. It only requires those debts "not be questioned." Failing to service the debt is hardly the same thing as attempting to void the debt or ignore the obligations. And void is really the most apt, since the second sentence essentially voids the debts of the Confederacy.

In a column for DealBook, which is adapted from one of his notes to clients, he explains the choice facing Treasury Secretary Jack Lew:

If the Treasury is unwilling to stretch the definition of extraordinary measures, on the day that the Federal Reserve predicts that the Treasury will run out of cash in its account and the Treasury is bound by the debt ceiling, it suspends all payments and awaits instructions from the Treasury. As a result, the government’s principal economic officials will face the prospect of violating one of these three laws:

1. The Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917 that establishes the debt ceiling;

2. The Federal Reserve Act that prohibits the Fed from lending directly to the Treasury; or,

3. The 14th Amendment of the Constitution that holds that the debt of the United States government, lawfully issued, will not be questioned.

They have to break a law. At the end of the day, officials will avoid violating the Constitution by indicating that they have been given inconsistent instructions and are obeying the one with the most important precedent.

link

Basically in Reinhart's formulation, Lew will opt to break the debt ceiling law, citing constitutional obligations to continue servicing the debt.

 

[jon_mx]

I am pretty sure debt priority is well established:

1. Washington Politicians

2. China

3. Banks

4. Oil Countries

.

.

.

....

1,257,345. Citizens

 

[Don Quixote]

In an effort to get some more perspective on those terrible approval numbers though, we tested Congress head to head with a couple dozen dubious things to see what came out ahead and for the most part the results for Congress aren't too hot.

..

Hemorrhoids, toenail fungus, dog poop, and cockroaches all might be a little bit gross- but they're all more popular than Congress. Hemorhoids beat out Congress 53/31 with bipartisan support. On the other three there's a partisan split- Republican voters go for Congress while Democrats take the alternative but overall it's a 47/40 victory for dog poop, a 44/41 one for toenail fungus, and a 44/42 triump for cockroaches.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/10/congress-losing-out-to-zombies-wall-street-andhipsters.html

 

[jamny]

Sounds like Harry Reid isn't too receptive to the Republican offer.

 

[timschochet]

I am pretty sure debt priority is well established:

1. Washington Politicians

2. China

3. Banks

4. Oil Countries

.

.

.

....

1,257,345. Citizens

In all seriousness, do you believe that in the event of a shortage, the federal government would pay the debt service first if it meant sacrificing Social Security checks? Because I don't.

 

[Joe T]

Can I get an updated on the last 10 pages of panic?

Did I miss anything?

 

[timschochet]

Sounds like Harry Reid isn't too receptive to the Republican offer.

He's not the one who decides.

The offer, as I understand it, is that in return for raising the debt ceiling for 6 weeks, Obama goes into conference. I think it would be OK for Obama to either agree or respond with, in return for raising the debt ceiling AND ending the shut down for 6 weeks, Obama immediately goes into conference.

Any other response in the negative by Obama could have the effect of completely reversing public opinion on this issue.

 

[timschochet]

Can I get an updated on the last 10 pages of panic?

Did I miss anything?

There would have been worldwide panic if the Republicans had taken your advice about the debt ceiling. Thankfully they haven't.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I am pretty sure debt priority is well established:

1. Washington Politicians

2. China

3. Banks

4. Oil Countries

.

.

.

....

1,257,345. Citizens

In all seriousness, do you believe that in the event of a shortage, the federal government would pay the debt service first if it meant sacrificing Social Security checks? Because I don't.

Not a chance in hell.

 

[Joe T]

Can I get an updated on the last 10 pages of panic?

Did I miss anything?

There would have been worldwide panic if the Republicans had taken your advice about the debt ceiling. Thankfully they haven't.

Thankfully, I haven't given any advice other than for you to post less, but by all means keep trying to lump me in with some preconceived notion you have.

 

[Joe T]

Can someone please post a serious summary of the last 10 pages if there were any new developments or any new panics?

 

[Fennis]

Can someone please post a serious summary of the last 10 pages if there were any new developments or any new panics?

tim discovered twitter.

that is all.

 

[Parrothead]

Can someone please post a serious summary of the last 10 pages if there were any new developments or any new panics?

 

[dparker713]

The 14th amendment provides the debt must be serviced first.

No, it doesn't. It only requires those debts "not be questioned." Failing to service the debt is hardly the same thing as attempting to void the debt or ignore the obligations. And void is really the most apt, since the second sentence essentially voids the debts of the Confederacy.

In a column for DealBook, which is adapted from one of his notes to clients, he explains the choice facing Treasury Secretary Jack Lew:

If the Treasury is unwilling to stretch the definition of extraordinary measures, on the day that the Federal Reserve predicts that the Treasury will run out of cash in its account and the Treasury is bound by the debt ceiling, it suspends all payments and awaits instructions from the Treasury. As a result, the government’s principal economic officials will face the prospect of violating one of these three laws:

1. The Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917 that establishes the debt ceiling;

2. The Federal Reserve Act that prohibits the Fed from lending directly to the Treasury; or,

3. The 14th Amendment of the Constitution that holds that the debt of the United States government, lawfully issued, will not be questioned.

They have to break a law. At the end of the day, officials will avoid violating the Constitution by indicating that they have been given inconsistent instructions and are obeying the one with the most important precedent.

link

Basically in Reinhart's formulation, Lew will opt to break the debt ceiling law, citing constitutional obligations to continue servicing the debt.

That does not necessarily mean the debt service must be paid. A plain reading of that section reads that the debts cannot be voided, not that they can't be defaulted.

 

[Jayrod]

Can someone please post a serious summary of the last 10 pages if there were any new developments or any new panics?

Some people died or something.

 

[Joe T]

Can someone please post a serious summary of the last 10 pages if there were any new developments or any new panics?

tim discovered twitter.

that is all.

This opens up a new world of cutting and pasting opportunities for him. Ugh.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I kind of wanted to see this place shut down. I feel like the Joker. I just wanted to watch the world burn for a little.

BGP has a club you can join for this.

Serious question.

Do you get more enjoyment out of watching other people suffer than watching people being happy?

I think we were both mostly kidding.

 

[Scoresman]

We're all literally kidding.

 

[jon_mx]

We're all literally kidding.

And I literally believe the others were.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I'm not. Let this place burn for a week or two.

 

[Henry Ford]

The Atlantic photo that women are sharing on my Facebook newsfeed

A little bear escaped! Throw him back over the fence!

 

[CBusAlex]

I kind of want to go bomb Syria myself, just so Sheik will shut the #### up about it already.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I kind of want to go bomb Syria myself, just so Sheik will shut the #### up about it already.

Now we're talking!

 

[Henry Ford]

I say we use a dirty bomb. Put it in a schoolgirl outfit and slingshot it using one of those swings you set up in a bedroom.

 

[msommer]

I kind of wanted to see this place shut down. I feel like the Joker. I just wanted to watch the world burn for a little.

How Republican of you.

What would ever make you think I was Republican?

Let me guess

"I'm a Libertarian"

I'm really just hoping that chaos would spill over into Syria and we could bomb it to "clean" it up.

That goose is pretty much cooked.Even Israel can't justify a bombing run these days...

 

[3C's]

http://drunkdialcongress.org/

 

[Schlzm]

Can someone please post a serious summary of the last 10 pages if there were any new developments or any new panics?

tim discovered twitter.

that is all.

This opens up a new world of cutting and pasting opportunities for him. Ugh.

Tim is now the ***OFFICIAL*** panic aggregator for the FFA.Schlzm

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Stock market is booming as a result of this news.

The black helicopters got the "abort" signal.

 

[jamny]

Sounds like Harry Reid isn't too receptive to the Republican offer.

He's not the one who decides.

The offer, as I understand it, is that in return for raising the debt ceiling for 6 weeks, Obama goes into conference. I think it would be OK for Obama to either agree or respond with, in return for raising the debt ceiling AND ending the shut down for 6 weeks, Obama immediately goes into conference.

Any other response in the negative by Obama could have the effect of completely reversing public opinion on this issue.

Yeah, you're right, the Senate Majority leader has no influence.

Carry on.