The Tea Party is back in business! (2 Viewers)

[timschochet]

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

And you're welcome to keep spewing the same bull#### you keep spewing over and over again in this thread:

In another question, 28 percent of voters blame Republicans for gridlock, while 10 percent blame Democrats and 58 percent blame both equally.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1958

Yeah, that other question is about gridlock in general, and has nothing to do with shutting down the government over Obamacare.

 

[Joe McGee]

Actually I do believe that, but it has nothing to do with the poll. The poll used the phrase "as a tactic to block the ACA"- obviously this refers to the Republicans, not to the Democrats, since the Dems are demanding an up or down vote on the budget.


You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

I didnt see the poll. Did it specify that 72 percent believed republicans are responsible or that 72 oppose the shutdown?

The poll actually asked that question specifically, and the answer wasn't 72%, but Tim doesn't really bother with details.

So despite the fact that I wrote exactly what the poll said, I don't bother with details?

What the poll said is that 72% of the American public doesn't want shutting down the government used as a tactic to block the ACA.

Now, my interpretation of this is that 72% believe Republicans are responsible. Unless you believe somehow that Democrats are attempting to block the ACA, I don't see how any other interpretation is reasonable. Both the source I quoted and Quinnipac, who held the poll, came to the exact same conclusion. But if you disagree, have at it.

The majority of Americans don't want the ACA either. Guess the government has stopped caring what the people want. By the people, against the people.

 

[igbomb]

Looks like the House Republicans will spend the day voting on 3 piecemeal bills- the exact same ones that were rejected yesterday, The exact same ones which the Senate has declared they will reject even if passed by the House, and which Obama says he will veto even if passed by the Senate.

But what the hell, gotta keep trying, right? After all, these are the same guys who attempted to overturn Obamacare 43 times.

Sounds like one side is trying and the other side isn't.

It doesn't matter how many different crap sandwiches you try to serve me, I'm still gonna turn them down. I don't think that means you're trying very hard.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Looks like the House Republicans will spend the day voting on 3 piecemeal bills- the exact same ones that were rejected yesterday, The exact same ones which the Senate has declared they will reject even if passed by the House, and which Obama says he will veto even if passed by the Senate.

But what the hell, gotta keep trying, right? After all, these are the same guys who attempted to overturn Obamacare 43 times.

Sounds like one side is trying and the other side isn't.

It doesn't matter how many different crap sandwiches you try to serve me, I'm still gonna turn them down. I don't think that means you're trying very hard.

I'm sure from your stance, it feels like you're being served a crap sandwich. But I'm guessing the other side feels that they're being served one as well, but they are trying to negotiate.

For the record, I'm not fighting either side. I was just making a joke with the original comment.

 

[snogger]

I hope the biggest lesson people bearing witness to this take away from it is never vote for a republican ever.

 

[timschochet]

Actually I do believe that, but it has nothing to do with the poll. The poll used the phrase "as a tactic to block the ACA"- obviously this refers to the Republicans, not to the Democrats, since the Dems are demanding an up or down vote on the budget.


You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

I didnt see the poll. Did it specify that 72 percent believed republicans are responsible or that 72 oppose the shutdown?

The poll actually asked that question specifically, and the answer wasn't 72%, but Tim doesn't really bother with details.

So despite the fact that I wrote exactly what the poll said, I don't bother with details?

What the poll said is that 72% of the American public doesn't want shutting down the government used as a tactic to block the ACA.

Now, my interpretation of this is that 72% believe Republicans are responsible. Unless you believe somehow that Democrats are attempting to block the ACA, I don't see how any other interpretation is reasonable. Both the source I quoted and Quinnipac, who held the poll, came to the exact same conclusion. But if you disagree, have at it.

The majority of Americans don't want the ACA either. Guess the government has stopped caring what the people want. By the people, against the people.

I don't like the ACA. But suggesting that the majority of Americans don't like it is really inaccurate. Whenever the details of the ACA are presented, the public approves in rather large numbers. So again your comments are just spin, and wrong.

But whether or not the public approves of the ACA, they don't want the government shut down in order to stop it or change it. They've made that extremely clear in this poll.

 

[Joe T]

Timmy going berzerker in here.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

And you're welcome to keep spewing the same bull#### you keep spewing over and over again in this thread:

In another question, 28 percent of voters blame Republicans for gridlock, while 10 percent blame Democrats and 58 percent blame both equally.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1958

Yeah, that other question is about gridlock in general, and has nothing to do with shutting down the government over Obamacare.

Ah I see...when a poll doesn't support your distorted views of reality, you change the definition of what gridlock means? Pleeeeaase....

2013 government shutdown timeline: Congress' path to gridlock

Government by Gridlock: Why some want a shutdown

Government shutdown begins as gridlocked Congress gives up

Long lines, closed shops as shutdown hits gridlocked Capitol Hill

Federal government shutdown: Gridlock governs on Capitol Hill

 

[Scoresman]

I would give anything to have Obama's next televised speech involve the phrase "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and a pair of sunglasses lowered on fishing lines from out of frame.

 

[dparker713]

Actually I do believe that, but it has nothing to do with the poll. The poll used the phrase "as a tactic to block the ACA"- obviously this refers to the Republicans, not to the Democrats, since the Dems are demanding an up or down vote on the budget.


You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

I didnt see the poll. Did it specify that 72 percent believed republicans are responsible or that 72 oppose the shutdown?

The poll actually asked that question specifically, and the answer wasn't 72%, but Tim doesn't really bother with details.

So despite the fact that I wrote exactly what the poll said, I don't bother with details?

What the poll said is that 72% of the American public doesn't want shutting down the government used as a tactic to block the ACA.

Now, my interpretation of this is that 72% believe Republicans are responsible. Unless you believe somehow that Democrats are attempting to block the ACA, I don't see how any other interpretation is reasonable. Both the source I quoted and Quinnipac, who held the poll, came to the exact same conclusion. But if you disagree, have at it.

The majority of Americans don't want the ACA either. Guess the government has stopped caring what the people want. By the people, against the people.

If Americans don't want the ACA they need to either pass a Constitutional Amendment outlawing the ACA or elect enough officials in the proper branches to repeal or reform it. Sorry, but we live in a representative republic, not a popular democracy.

 

[timschochet]

Timmy going berzerker in here.

Is that all you got?

 

[dparker713]

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

And you're welcome to keep spewing the same bull#### you keep spewing over and over again in this thread:

In another question, 28 percent of voters blame Republicans for gridlock, while 10 percent blame Democrats and 58 percent blame both equally.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1958

Yeah, that other question is about gridlock in general, and has nothing to do with shutting down the government over Obamacare.

Ah I see...when a poll doesn't support your distorted views of reality, you change the definition of what gridlock means? Pleeeeaase....

2013 government shutdown timeline: Congress' path to gridlock

Government by Gridlock: Why some want a shutdown

Government shutdown begins as gridlocked Congress gives up

Long lines, closed shops as shutdown hits gridlocked Capitol Hill

Federal government shutdown: Gridlock governs on Capitol Hill

If you really can't distinguish between gridlock and shutdown, I see no reason for anyone to engage in any further discussion with you.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would give anything to have Obama's next televised speech involve the phrase "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and a pair of sunglasses lowered on fishing lines from out of frame.

That was probably funny when you wrote it but then you hit "post" and things went terribly wrong.

 

[timschochet]

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

And you're welcome to keep spewing the same bull#### you keep spewing over and over again in this thread:

In another question, 28 percent of voters blame Republicans for gridlock, while 10 percent blame Democrats and 58 percent blame both equally.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1958

Yeah, that other question is about gridlock in general, and has nothing to do with shutting down the government over Obamacare.

Ah I see...when a poll doesn't support your distorted views of reality, you change the definition of what gridlock means? Pleeeeaase....

2013 government shutdown timeline: Congress' path to gridlock

Government by Gridlock: Why some want a shutdown

Government shutdown begins as gridlocked Congress gives up

Long lines, closed shops as shutdown hits gridlocked Capitol Hill

Federal government shutdown: Gridlock governs on Capitol Hill

72% of the American public believes that there should be no government shutdown as a means to defeat the ACA.

How many times does this need to be repeated before it sinks in? How many ways are you going to attempt to ignore these numbers?

You can dispute them all you want, but I guarantee you the Republicans in leadership aren't. They're panicking right now, looking for a face-saving way out of this.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Pure speculation...

This remains unresolved until we hit the debt limit in two weeks. Wall Street and business types finally just start kicking the #### out of moderate Republicans. Boehner folds and uses Dem votes to fund government.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

There is one area where the House, Senate, and President have come to an agreement and passed a billhttps://iqconnect.lmhostediq.com/iq...BILLS-113hr3210enr/pdf/BILLS-113hr3210enr.pdf providing uninterrupted pay for our military and DOD civilians. Our armed forces and civilian support have suffered the most this year during the sequester, and it was essential that they were protected during this government slowdown. But early this morning, I learned that the Department of Defense narrowly interpreted that law to apply only to a small group of civilian defense employees. This ignores the clear language of the House bill that mandates that all military and civilians are protected from the slowdown, including our National Guard and Reserve members serving in active duty status, full-time Guard members, and dual-status technicians. I have sent a letter to Secretary Hagel to ask him to rectify this situation immediately.

Email I received from Lankford (R-OK)

Woah

ETA: I emailed my congressman (Steny Hoyer) asking him to clarify this. Will write my Senators tomorrow.

I linked an article talking about this yesterday. Pretty pathetic that it's so hard to find information about it with all of the poo flinging.

Missed the link. I wrote my Senators this morning and sent this to a few people I know who have an open dialogue with their elected representatives.

Not sure if anyone is at Congress to take my messages though, they all seem to be out at the WWII Memorial for photo ops with the WWII vets.

 

[Scoresman]

I would give anything to have Obama's next televised speech involve the phrase "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and a pair of sunglasses lowered on fishing lines from out of frame.

That was probably funny when you wrote it but then you hit "post" and things went terribly wrong.

not really

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pure speculation...

This remains unresolved until we hit the debt limit in two weeks. Wall Street and business types finally just start kicking the #### out of moderate Republicans. Boehner folds and uses Dem votes to fund government.

This will be solved by October 17th.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

And you're welcome to keep spewing the same bull#### you keep spewing over and over again in this thread:

In another question, 28 percent of voters blame Republicans for gridlock, while 10 percent blame Democrats and 58 percent blame both equally.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1958

Yeah, that other question is about gridlock in general, and has nothing to do with shutting down the government over Obamacare.

Ah I see...when a poll doesn't support your distorted views of reality, you change the definition of what gridlock means? Pleeeeaase....

2013 government shutdown timeline: Congress' path to gridlock

Government by Gridlock: Why some want a shutdown

Government shutdown begins as gridlocked Congress gives up

Long lines, closed shops as shutdown hits gridlocked Capitol Hill

Federal government shutdown: Gridlock governs on Capitol Hill

72% of the American public believes that there should be no government shutdown as a means to defeat the ACA.How many times does this need to be repeated before it sinks in? How many ways are you going to attempt to ignore these numbers?

You can dispute them all you want, but I guarantee you the Republicans in leadership aren't. They're panicking right now, looking for a face-saving way out of this.

And what does defeat the ACA mean? Republicans gave other options that were not to defeat the ACA. Gridlock was responsible for the shutdown, not the fact that the Republicans could not defeat the ACA. More people are against the ACA then there are for it which further goes to show how ridiculous your claim is.

House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, gave as good as he got. “The president isn’t telling the whole story,” he said in an opinion article posted on the USA Today website. “The fact is that Washington Democrats have slammed the door on reopening the government by refusing to engage in bipartisan talks.”

 

[Scoresman]

Let's be clear on this; the shut down is ONLY happening because big Pharmacy and the AMA are strong arming republicans so they can keep setting insane prices and keep collecting wealth.

Take a look at some of the top donators to the GOP and it really becomes clear on what is happening.

Pfizer Inc
Amgen Inc
Merck & Co
JOHNSON & JOHNSON
AmerisourceBergen Corp
Eli Lilly & Co
GlaxoSmithKline
Novartis Corp
ABBOTT LABORATORIES
AbbVie Pharmaceuticals
Sanofi
McKesson Corp
Allergan Inc
Cardinal Health
Roche Holdings
Covidien Ltd
Boston Scientific Corp
Invacare Corp
CH Boehringer Sohn
Novo Nordisk


Now count how many of those companies deal with the medical field. Good luck trying to control your own politicians when they are in the back pocket of these guys.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I would give anything to have Obama's next televised speech involve the phrase "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and a pair of sunglasses lowered on fishing lines from out of frame.

That was probably funny when you wrote it but then you hit "post" and things went terribly wrong.

not really

Maybe what you wrote is like wine, it'll get better over time. Check back in here in three years and see if it's funny then.

 

[Don Quixote]

Obama invited Congressional leaders over for a 5:30 meeting. link

 

[humpback]

So despite the fact that I wrote exactly what the poll said, I don't bother with details?


What the poll said is that 72% of the American public doesn't want shutting down the government used as a tactic to block the ACA.

Now, my interpretation of this is that 72% believe Republicans are responsible. Unless you believe somehow that Democrats are attempting to block the ACA, I don't see how any other interpretation is reasonable. Both the source I quoted and Quinnipac, who held the poll, came to the exact same conclusion. But if you disagree, have at it.

Your logic is awful.

 

[pantagrapher]

Dissension in the GOP ranks. Some want to own the shutdown. Some want to deny they're to blame. And others, Fox News in particular, want to deny it's even a shutdown. And I'm sure some of their base will buy whichever of the three stories they're told.

 

[pantagrapher]

Let's be clear on this; the shut down is ONLY happening because big Pharmacy and the AMA are strong arming republicans so they can keep setting insane prices and keep collecting wealth.

Take a look at some of the top donators to the GOP and it really becomes clear on what is happening.

Pfizer Inc

Amgen Inc

Merck & Co

JOHNSON & JOHNSON

AmerisourceBergen Corp

Eli Lilly & Co

GlaxoSmithKline

Novartis Corp

ABBOTT LABORATORIES

AbbVie Pharmaceuticals

Sanofi

McKesson Corp

Allergan Inc

Cardinal Health

Roche Holdings

Covidien Ltd

Boston Scientific Corp

Invacare Corp

CH Boehringer Sohn

Novo Nordisk

Now count how many of those companies deal with the medical field. Good luck trying to control your own politicians when they are in the back pocket of these guys.

I don't think that's the sole reason, since many of their donors will suffer because of the shutdown and debt limit shenanigans. They desperately want to stop Obama's signature legislative victory from coming to fruition. They know it will be popular and that the inevitable kinks will be largely ironed out by 2014 campaign season. What will they run on then? It won't be repealing Obamacare (which by then they'll call ACA, since it will enjoy popular support). It won't be the deficit. What will they have left? You can only lean on gerrymandered house districts and voting restrictions for so long. It's a nightmare scenario in the long term and they know it.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Pure speculation...

This remains unresolved until we hit the debt limit in two weeks. Wall Street and business types finally just start kicking the #### out of moderate Republicans. Boehner folds and uses Dem votes to fund government.

According to AP, Wall Street and the Chamber of Commerce are already siding with Obama.

http://www.wncn.com/story/23585813/some-in-gop-not-heeding-old-big-business-allies

 

[massraider]

Dissension in the GOP ranks. Some want to own the shutdown. Some want to deny they're to blame. And others, Fox News in particular, want to deny it's even a shutdown. And I'm sure some of their base will buy whichever of the three stories they're told.

Oh, it's a 'slimdown'. Well, that's a lot less scary.

 

[Joe McGee]

Actually I do believe that, but it has nothing to do with the poll. The poll used the phrase "as a tactic to block the ACA"- obviously this refers to the Republicans, not to the Democrats, since the Dems are demanding an up or down vote on the budget.


You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

I didnt see the poll. Did it specify that 72 percent believed republicans are responsible or that 72 oppose the shutdown?

The poll actually asked that question specifically, and the answer wasn't 72%, but Tim doesn't really bother with details.

So despite the fact that I wrote exactly what the poll said, I don't bother with details?

What the poll said is that 72% of the American public doesn't want shutting down the government used as a tactic to block the ACA.

Now, my interpretation of this is that 72% believe Republicans are responsible. Unless you believe somehow that Democrats are attempting to block the ACA, I don't see how any other interpretation is reasonable. Both the source I quoted and Quinnipac, who held the poll, came to the exact same conclusion. But if you disagree, have at it.

The majority of Americans don't want the ACA either. Guess the government has stopped caring what the people want. By the people, against the people.

I don't like the ACA. But suggesting that the majority of Americans don't like it is really inaccurate. Whenever the details of the ACA are presented, the public approves in rather large numbers. So again your comments are just spin, and wrong.

But whether or not the public approves of the ACA, they don't want the government shut down in order to stop it or change it. They've made that extremely clear in this poll.

In every poll conducted by eight major national pollsters this year, opposition to the Affordable Care Act outweighs support.1

http://www.american.com/archive/2013/october/top-10-takeaways-public-opinion-on-the-affordable-care-act

 

[Scoresman]

Here's a fun bit of trivia: The last US President to propose a universal health care system was Richard Nixon. He'd had an older brother who died of tuberculosis, and the costs of his medical care drained his family. He had to work as a janitor to support himself in high school. Nixon managed to keep up his grades anyway and got a scholarship to Harvard - which he had to turn down, because it didn't include a stipend for room and board. His parents couldn't afford to help because of the money they were spending on his poor brother.

As shady as he was, Nixon understood the miseries of being poor and unable to afford health care. Think about that for a minute: Richard ####### Nixon, a guy who's name became shorthand for political corruption, was more compassionate and tuned in with the needs of the American people than Republicans are today. I cannot fathom how anyone could support the republican party of today.

 

[Henry Ford]

Dissension in the GOP ranks. Some want to own the shutdown. Some want to deny they're to blame. And others, Fox News in particular, want to deny it's even a shutdown. And I'm sure some of their base will buy whichever of the three stories they're told.

Oh, it's a 'slimdown'. Well, that's a lot less scary.

Should have done this before bikini season.

 

[Clifford]

Looks like the House Republicans will spend the day voting on 3 piecemeal bills- the exact same ones that were rejected yesterday, The exact same ones which the Senate has declared they will reject even if passed by the House, and which Obama says he will veto even if passed by the Senate.

But what the hell, gotta keep trying, right? After all, these are the same guys who attempted to overturn Obamacare 43 times.

Sounds like one side is trying and the other side isn't.

It doesn't matter how many different crap sandwiches you try to serve me, I'm still gonna turn them down. I don't think that means you're trying very hard.

They're trying very hard to appear as non-obstructionist while being obstructionist, so they are trying.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Here's a fun bit of trivia: The last US President to propose a universal health care system was Richard Nixon. He'd had an older brother who died of tuberculosis, and the costs of his medical care drained his family. He had to work as a janitor to support himself in high school. Nixon managed to keep up his grades anyway and got a scholarship to Harvard - which he had to turn down, because it didn't include a stipend for room and board. His parents couldn't afford to help because of the money they were spending on his poor brother.

As shady as he was, Nixon understood the miseries of being poor and unable to afford health care. Think about that for a minute: Richard ####### Nixon, a guy who's name became shorthand for political corruption, was more compassionate and tuned in with the needs of the American people than Republicans are today. I cannot fathom how anyone could support the republican party of today.

We learn something new everyday.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Andrew Sullivan:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/01/the-nullification-party/]

I’ve been trying to think of something original to say about the absurdity now transpiring in Washington, DC. I’ve said roughly what I think in short; and I defer to Fallows for an important dose of reality against the predictably moronic coverage of the Washington Post.

But there is something more here. How does one party that has lost two presidential elections and a Supreme Court case – as well as two Senate elections - think it has the right to shut down the entire government and destroy the full faith and credit of the United States Treasury to get its way on universal healthcare now? I see no quid pro quo even. Just pure blackmail, resting on understandable and predictable public concern whenever a major reform is enacted. But what has to be resisted is any idea that this is government or politics as usual. It is an attack on the governance and the constitutional order of the United States.

When ideologies become as calcified, as cocooned and as extremist as those galvanizing the GOP, the American system of government cannot work. But I fear this nullification of the last two elections is a deliberate attempt to ensure that the American system of government as we have known it cannot work. It cannot, must not work, in the mindset of these radicals, because they simply do not accept the legitimacy of a President and Congress of the opposing party. The GOP does not regard the president as merely wrong – but as illegitimate. Not misguided – illegitimate. This is not about ending Obamacare as such (although that is a preliminary scalp); it is about nullifying this presidency, the way the GOP attempted to nullify the last Democratic presidency by impeachment.

Except this time, of course, we cannot deny that race too is an added factor.....

He's a moron anyway, but this is ridiculous. I am so ****ing tired of this refrain.

 

[Jim11]

Andrew Sullivan:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/01/the-nullification-party/]

I’ve been trying to think of something original to say about the absurdity now transpiring in Washington, DC. I’ve said roughly what I think in short; and I defer to Fallows for an important dose of reality against the predictably moronic coverage of the Washington Post.

But there is something more here. How does one party that has lost two presidential elections and a Supreme Court case – as well as two Senate elections - think it has the right to shut down the entire government and destroy the full faith and credit of the United States Treasury to get its way on universal healthcare now? I see no quid pro quo even. Just pure blackmail, resting on understandable and predictable public concern whenever a major reform is enacted. But what has to be resisted is any idea that this is government or politics as usual. It is an attack on the governance and the constitutional order of the United States.

When ideologies become as calcified, as cocooned and as extremist as those galvanizing the GOP, the American system of government cannot work. But I fear this nullification of the last two elections is a deliberate attempt to ensure that the American system of government as we have known it cannot work. It cannot, must not work, in the mindset of these radicals, because they simply do not accept the legitimacy of a President and Congress of the opposing party. The GOP does not regard the president as merely wrong – but as illegitimate. Not misguided – illegitimate. This is not about ending Obamacare as such (although that is a preliminary scalp); it is about nullifying this presidency, the way the GOP attempted to nullify the last Democratic presidency by impeachment.

Except this time, of course, we cannot deny that race too is an added factor.....

He's a moron anyway, but this is ridiculous. I am so ****ing tired of this refrain.

Yes, everytime anyone is against an Obama policy, it's due to race.

 

[timschochet]

Here's a fun bit of trivia: The last US President to propose a universal health care system was Richard Nixon. He'd had an older brother who died of tuberculosis, and the costs of his medical care drained his family. He had to work as a janitor to support himself in high school. Nixon managed to keep up his grades anyway and got a scholarship to Harvard - which he had to turn down, because it didn't include a stipend for room and board. His parents couldn't afford to help because of the money they were spending on his poor brother.

As shady as he was, Nixon understood the miseries of being poor and unable to afford health care. Think about that for a minute: Richard ####### Nixon, a guy who's name became shorthand for political corruption, was more compassionate and tuned in with the needs of the American people than Republicans are today. I cannot fathom how anyone could support the republican party of today.

Actually, while you're right about the TB and Nixon's motivations, I believe that President Clinton, through his wife, also proposed universal health care.

 

[timschochet]

Andrew Sullivan:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/01/the-nullification-party/]

I’ve been trying to think of something original to say about the absurdity now transpiring in Washington, DC. I’ve said roughly what I think in short; and I defer to Fallows for an important dose of reality against the predictably moronic coverage of the Washington Post.

But there is something more here. How does one party that has lost two presidential elections and a Supreme Court case – as well as two Senate elections - think it has the right to shut down the entire government and destroy the full faith and credit of the United States Treasury to get its way on universal healthcare now? I see no quid pro quo even. Just pure blackmail, resting on understandable and predictable public concern whenever a major reform is enacted. But what has to be resisted is any idea that this is government or politics as usual. It is an attack on the governance and the constitutional order of the United States.

When ideologies become as calcified, as cocooned and as extremist as those galvanizing the GOP, the American system of government cannot work. But I fear this nullification of the last two elections is a deliberate attempt to ensure that the American system of government as we have known it cannot work. It cannot, must not work, in the mindset of these radicals, because they simply do not accept the legitimacy of a President and Congress of the opposing party. The GOP does not regard the president as merely wrong – but as illegitimate. Not misguided – illegitimate. This is not about ending Obamacare as such (although that is a preliminary scalp); it is about nullifying this presidency, the way the GOP attempted to nullify the last Democratic presidency by impeachment.

Except this time, of course, we cannot deny that race too is an added factor....

He's a moron anyway, but this is ridiculous. I am so ****ing tired of this refrain.

I understand that it's tiresome, as well as repellent, especially to true conservatives such as yourself.

But to deny that there is an element of racism which exists within the Tea Party, especially in red states in the south, is to deny reality.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Here's a fun bit of trivia: The last US President to propose a universal health care system was Richard Nixon. He'd had an older brother who died of tuberculosis, and the costs of his medical care drained his family. He had to work as a janitor to support himself in high school. Nixon managed to keep up his grades anyway and got a scholarship to Harvard - which he had to turn down, because it didn't include a stipend for room and board. His parents couldn't afford to help because of the money they were spending on his poor brother.

As shady as he was, Nixon understood the miseries of being poor and unable to afford health care. Think about that for a minute: Richard ####### Nixon, a guy who's name became shorthand for political corruption, was more compassionate and tuned in with the needs of the American people than Republicans are today. I cannot fathom how anyone could support the republican party of today.

Actually, while you're right about the TB and Nixon's motivations, I believe that President Clinton, through his wife, also proposed universal health care.

If I remember correctly, the Republicans countered with some plan involving insurance mandates. Crazy stuff.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Actually I do believe that, but it has nothing to do with the poll. The poll used the phrase "as a tactic to block the ACA"- obviously this refers to the Republicans, not to the Democrats, since the Dems are demanding an up or down vote on the budget.


You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

I didnt see the poll. Did it specify that 72 percent believed republicans are responsible or that 72 oppose the shutdown?

The poll actually asked that question specifically, and the answer wasn't 72%, but Tim doesn't really bother with details.

So despite the fact that I wrote exactly what the poll said, I don't bother with details?

What the poll said is that 72% of the American public doesn't want shutting down the government used as a tactic to block the ACA.

Now, my interpretation of this is that 72% believe Republicans are responsible. Unless you believe somehow that Democrats are attempting to block the ACA, I don't see how any other interpretation is reasonable. Both the source I quoted and Quinnipac, who held the poll, came to the exact same conclusion. But if you disagree, have at it.

The majority of Americans don't want the ACA either. Guess the government has stopped caring what the people want. By the people, against the people.

If Americans don't want the ACA they need to either pass a Constitutional Amendment outlawing the ACA or elect enough officials in the proper branches to repeal or reform it. Sorry, but we live in a representative republic, not a popular democracy.

Except that funding and implementing the "law" is part of Congress' job. In not funding it or debating how to fund it, regulate it, implement it, whatever you want to call it, the legislature is "reforming" it. This tactic isn't really anything new to our system.

 

[timschochet]

Dissension in the GOP ranks. Some want to own the shutdown. Some want to deny they're to blame. And others, Fox News in particular, want to deny it's even a shutdown. And I'm sure some of their base will buy whichever of the three stories they're told.

Apparently 5 Digit Know Nothing, Joe McGee, Rambling Wreck, and Max Threshold buy into all 3 already.

 

[CBusAlex]

I would give anything to have Obama's next televised speech involve the phrase "we don't negotiate with terrorists" and a pair of sunglasses lowered on fishing lines from out of frame.

That was probably funny when you wrote it but then you hit "post" and things went terribly wrong.

not really

Maybe what you wrote is like wine, it'll get better over time. Check back in here in three years and see if it's funny then.

It's an internet joke. From the internet.

 

[timschochet]

Actually I do believe that, but it has nothing to do with the poll. The poll used the phrase "as a tactic to block the ACA"- obviously this refers to the Republicans, not to the Democrats, since the Dems are demanding an up or down vote on the budget.


You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but it's pretty clear that 72% of the American public blame the Republicans for the shutdown.

I didnt see the poll. Did it specify that 72 percent believed republicans are responsible or that 72 oppose the shutdown?

The poll actually asked that question specifically, and the answer wasn't 72%, but Tim doesn't really bother with details.

So despite the fact that I wrote exactly what the poll said, I don't bother with details?

What the poll said is that 72% of the American public doesn't want shutting down the government used as a tactic to block the ACA.

Now, my interpretation of this is that 72% believe Republicans are responsible. Unless you believe somehow that Democrats are attempting to block the ACA, I don't see how any other interpretation is reasonable. Both the source I quoted and Quinnipac, who held the poll, came to the exact same conclusion. But if you disagree, have at it.

The majority of Americans don't want the ACA either. Guess the government has stopped caring what the people want. By the people, against the people.

If Americans don't want the ACA they need to either pass a Constitutional Amendment outlawing the ACA or elect enough officials in the proper branches to repeal or reform it. Sorry, but we live in a representative republic, not a popular democracy.

Except that funding and implementing the "law" is part of Congress' job. In not funding it or debating how to fund it, regulate it, implement it, whatever you want to call it, the legislature is "reforming" it. This tactic isn't really anything new to our system.

Yes it is. Obamacare is already funded. The House shut down the government in order to defund or delay a program already in place and paid for. There have been shutdowns in the past, but this tactic has never been attempted before (from what I've read.)

 

[Jim11]

Obama pushed through his health care bill. The govt. shutdown is because of this bill. Hence, Obama is primarily responsible for the shutdown.

Good on those who stood their ground to defund this aspect of Obama's socialist agenda.

 

[Joe McGee]

Dissension in the GOP ranks. Some want to own the shutdown. Some want to deny they're to blame. And others, Fox News in particular, want to deny it's even a shutdown. And I'm sure some of their base will buy whichever of the three stories they're told.

Apparently 5 Digit Know Nothing, Joe McGee, Rambling Wreck, and Max Threshold buy into all 3 already.

As usual you are wrong. When are you EVER right about anything (except for drafting Joique Bell)?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Here's a fun bit of trivia: The last US President to propose a universal health care system was Richard Nixon. He'd had an older brother who died of tuberculosis, and the costs of his medical care drained his family. He had to work as a janitor to support himself in high school. Nixon managed to keep up his grades anyway and got a scholarship to Harvard - which he had to turn down, because it didn't include a stipend for room and board. His parents couldn't afford to help because of the money they were spending on his poor brother.

As shady as he was, Nixon understood the miseries of being poor and unable to afford health care. Think about that for a minute: Richard ####### Nixon, a guy who's name became shorthand for political corruption, was more compassionate and tuned in with the needs of the American people than Republicans are today. I cannot fathom how anyone could support the republican party of today.

So, just since I've been reading, people that aren't in lock step with you, tim, Andrew Sullivan and President Obama and his party are racists who lack compassion and to add tim's usual refrian - progressive from the the 5th dimension where progressives and extremists ban together to march through cities eating the livers of all people they encounter, laughing the entire time and mocking good hard working reasonable people that host message board drafts more than most people work in a given work week.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Andrew Sullivan:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/01/the-nullification-party/]

I’ve been trying to think of something original to say about the absurdity now transpiring in Washington, DC. I’ve said roughly what I think in short; and I defer to Fallows for an important dose of reality against the predictably moronic coverage of the Washington Post.

But there is something more here. How does one party that has lost two presidential elections and a Supreme Court case – as well as two Senate elections - think it has the right to shut down the entire government and destroy the full faith and credit of the United States Treasury to get its way on universal healthcare now? I see no quid pro quo even. Just pure blackmail, resting on understandable and predictable public concern whenever a major reform is enacted. But what has to be resisted is any idea that this is government or politics as usual. It is an attack on the governance and the constitutional order of the United States.

When ideologies become as calcified, as cocooned and as extremist as those galvanizing the GOP, the American system of government cannot work. But I fear this nullification of the last two elections is a deliberate attempt to ensure that the American system of government as we have known it cannot work. It cannot, must not work, in the mindset of these radicals, because they simply do not accept the legitimacy of a President and Congress of the opposing party. The GOP does not regard the president as merely wrong – but as illegitimate. Not misguided – illegitimate. This is not about ending Obamacare as such (although that is a preliminary scalp); it is about nullifying this presidency, the way the GOP attempted to nullify the last Democratic presidency by impeachment.

Except this time, of course, we cannot deny that race too is an added factor....

He's a moron anyway, but this is ridiculous. I am so ****ing tired of this refrain.

I understand that it's tiresome, as well as repellent, especially to true conservatives such as yourself.

But to deny that there is an element of racism which exists within the Tea Party, especially in red states in the south, is to deny reality.

I fairly sick and tired of your posts about the Tea Party and everything they intimate, profess and distinguish. It's beyond tiresome. And yes, I will ignore the opinions of any single person who professes that this is racism. It's just a ridiculous crock of an attack angle that it's useless as any measure of a true problem. In effect, the charge simply cannot ever be taken seriously in this country anymore. For any reason. By anyone. I'm sure that's exactly what they were going for.

 

[timschochet]

Dissension in the GOP ranks. Some want to own the shutdown. Some want to deny they're to blame. And others, Fox News in particular, want to deny it's even a shutdown. And I'm sure some of their base will buy whichever of the three stories they're told.

Apparently 5 Digit Know Nothing, Joe McGee, Rambling Wreck, and Max Threshold buy into all 3 already.

As usual you are wrong. When are you EVER right about anything (except for drafting Joique Bell)?

I drafted Jimmy Graham too.

 

[timschochet]

Andrew Sullivan:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/01/the-nullification-party/]

Ive been trying to think of something original to say about the absurdity now transpiring in Washington, DC. Ive said roughly what I think in short; and I defer to Fallows for an important dose of reality against the predictably moronic coverage of the Washington Post.

But there is something more here. How does one party that has lost two presidential elections and a Supreme Court case as well as two Senate elections - think it has the right to shut down the entire government and destroy the full faith and credit of the United States Treasury to get its way on universal healthcare now? I see no quid pro quo even. Just pure blackmail, resting on understandable and predictable public concern whenever a major reform is enacted. But what has to be resisted is any idea that this is government or politics as usual. It is an attack on the governance and the constitutional order of the United States.

When ideologies become as calcified, as cocooned and as extremist as those galvanizing the GOP, the American system of government cannot work. But I fear this nullification of the last two elections is a deliberate attempt to ensure that the American system of government as we have known it cannot work. It cannot, must not work, in the mindset of these radicals, because they simply do not accept the legitimacy of a President and Congress of the opposing party. The GOP does not regard the president as merely wrong but as illegitimate. Not misguided illegitimate. This is not about ending Obamacare as such (although that is a preliminary scalp); it is about nullifying this presidency, the way the GOP attempted to nullify the last Democratic presidency by impeachment.

Except this time, of course, we cannot deny that race too is an added factor....

He's a moron anyway, but this is ridiculous. I am so ****ing tired of this refrain.

I understand that it's tiresome, as well as repellent, especially to true conservatives such as yourself.But to deny that there is an element of racism which exists within the Tea Party, especially in red states in the south, is to deny reality.

I fairly sick and tired of your posts about the Tea Party and everything they intimate, profess and distinguish. It's beyond tiresome. And yes, I will ignore the opinions of any single person who professes that this is racism. It's just a ridiculous crock of an attack angle that it's useless as any measure of a true problem. In effect, the charge simply cannot ever be taken seriously in this country anymore. For any reason. By anyone. I'm sure that's exactly what they were going for.

I respect you as much as any poster here. Truly I do. I think you're dead wrong about this.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Andrew Sullivan:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/01/the-nullification-party/]

Ive been trying to think of something original to say about the absurdity now transpiring in Washington, DC. Ive said roughly what I think in short; and I defer to Fallows for an important dose of reality against the predictably moronic coverage of the Washington Post.

But there is something more here. How does one party that has lost two presidential elections and a Supreme Court case as well as two Senate elections - think it has the right to shut down the entire government and destroy the full faith and credit of the United States Treasury to get its way on universal healthcare now? I see no quid pro quo even. Just pure blackmail, resting on understandable and predictable public concern whenever a major reform is enacted. But what has to be resisted is any idea that this is government or politics as usual. It is an attack on the governance and the constitutional order of the United States.

When ideologies become as calcified, as cocooned and as extremist as those galvanizing the GOP, the American system of government cannot work. But I fear this nullification of the last two elections is a deliberate attempt to ensure that the American system of government as we have known it cannot work. It cannot, must not work, in the mindset of these radicals, because they simply do not accept the legitimacy of a President and Congress of the opposing party. The GOP does not regard the president as merely wrong but as illegitimate. Not misguided illegitimate. This is not about ending Obamacare as such (although that is a preliminary scalp); it is about nullifying this presidency, the way the GOP attempted to nullify the last Democratic presidency by impeachment.

Except this time, of course, we cannot deny that race too is an added factor....

He's a moron anyway, but this is ridiculous. I am so ****ing tired of this refrain.

I understand that it's tiresome, as well as repellent, especially to true conservatives such as yourself.But to deny that there is an element of racism which exists within the Tea Party, especially in red states in the south, is to deny reality.

I fairly sick and tired of your posts about the Tea Party and everything they intimate, profess and distinguish. It's beyond tiresome. And yes, I will ignore the opinions of any single person who professes that this is racism. It's just a ridiculous crock of an attack angle that it's useless as any measure of a true problem. In effect, the charge simply cannot ever be taken seriously in this country anymore. For any reason. By anyone. I'm sure that's exactly what they were going for.

I respect you as much as any poster here. Truly I do. I think you're dead wrong about this.

And you thought everyone was dead wrong about the NSA. Until you decided they weren't.

 

[Kasparov]

Andrew Sullivan:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/01/the-nullification-party/]

I’ve been trying to think of something original to say about the absurdity now transpiring in Washington, DC. I’ve said roughly what I think in short; and I defer to Fallows for an important dose of reality against the predictably moronic coverage of the Washington Post.

But there is something more here. How does one party that has lost two presidential elections and a Supreme Court case – as well as two Senate elections - think it has the right to shut down the entire government and destroy the full faith and credit of the United States Treasury to get its way on universal healthcare now? I see no quid pro quo even. Just pure blackmail, resting on understandable and predictable public concern whenever a major reform is enacted. But what has to be resisted is any idea that this is government or politics as usual. It is an attack on the governance and the constitutional order of the United States.

When ideologies become as calcified, as cocooned and as extremist as those galvanizing the GOP, the American system of government cannot work. But I fear this nullification of the last two elections is a deliberate attempt to ensure that the American system of government as we have known it cannot work. It cannot, must not work, in the mindset of these radicals, because they simply do not accept the legitimacy of a President and Congress of the opposing party. The GOP does not regard the president as merely wrong – but as illegitimate. Not misguided – illegitimate. This is not about ending Obamacare as such (although that is a preliminary scalp); it is about nullifying this presidency, the way the GOP attempted to nullify the last Democratic presidency by impeachment.

Except this time, of course, we cannot deny that race too is an added factor....

He's a moron anyway, but this is ridiculous. I am so ****ing tired of this refrain.

I understand that it's tiresome, as well as repellent, especially to true conservatives such as yourself.

But to deny that there is an element of racism which exists within the Tea Party, especially in red states in the south, is to deny reality.

I fairly sick and tired of your posts about the Tea Party and everything they intimate, profess and distinguish. It's beyond tiresome. And yes, I will ignore the opinions of any single person who professes that this is racism. It's just a ridiculous crock of an attack angle that it's useless as any measure of a true problem. In effect, the charge simply cannot ever be taken seriously in this country anymore. For any reason. By anyone. I'm sure that's exactly what they were going for.

I agree, everything the Tea Party intimates, professes and distinguishes IS beyond tiresome.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Obama pushed through his health care bill. The govt. shutdown is because of this bill. Hence, Obama is primarily responsible for the shutdown.

Good on those who stood their ground to defund this aspect of Obama's socialist agenda.