The Tea Party is back in business! (1 Viewer)

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

So have any of the libtards started calling Boner a terrorist yet?

White House senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer likened House Republicans to suicide bombers, kidnappers and arsonists in a single interview on Thursday. "What we're not for is negotiating with people with a bomb strapped to their chest,"

I knew it... awesome

Not only is the metaphor of taking hostages accurate for what's been going on, but it's been used by people on both sides to describe it.The most colorful metaphor I read was a California Republican rep calling his fellow Republicans lemmings with suicide vests. And that the day after the shutdown began the Republican party would be Long Duk Dong at the end of 16 Candles. They'd wake up, having passed out, in their car crashed on the front lawn.

It's not the metaphor which is ridiculous. It's how people who are supposed to be adults are acting. The are the same people who were trying to argue two years ago that there would be no consequence to the US defaulting on its debt. Basically, they have no place ordering off the adult menu, much less be in a position to influence national policy. And the current stand-off is hostage taking, pure and simple.

No. What they are doing is not the equivalent of suicide bombers. That metaphor is horrific and inappropriate. And it's not "okay because both sides do it."

What they are doing is 100% political and no where near going out in the streets and bombing random people violently. You should know better.

It's pretty rare that I agree with JoeT, but I do on this.

I actually think it's OK, though a bit extreme, to use the phrase "hostage-taking" in reference to the shutdown. It is NOT okay to use phrases like "bombs strapped to chest", etc. That's rhetoric that we really don't need coming from the White House.

They want to destroy the economy for political gain.

 

[Uwe Blab]

Not even about ObamaCare...just blatant power grab at everyone's expense. Swell. Won't forget this as a voter going forward.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/10/shutdown_leverage_forget_obamacare_republicans_are_using_the_shutdown_as.html

Three days into the federal shutdown, Republicans are beginning to admit that, contrary to everything they told us, they didn’t really close the government to stop Obamacare. They did it, and will keep doing it, to gain leverage in the coming fight over the debt ceiling. The government will stay shut for the next two weeks so that the GOP can accumulate power.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

So have any of the libtards started calling Boner a terrorist yet?

White House senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer likened House Republicans to suicide bombers, kidnappers and arsonists in a single interview on Thursday. "What we're not for is negotiating with people with a bomb strapped to their chest,"

I knew it... awesome

Not only is the metaphor of taking hostages accurate for what's been going on, but it's been used by people on both sides to describe it.The most colorful metaphor I read was a California Republican rep calling his fellow Republicans lemmings with suicide vests. And that the day after the shutdown began the Republican party would be Long Duk Dong at the end of 16 Candles. They'd wake up, having passed out, in their car crashed on the front lawn.

No more yanky my healthcare

 

[Joe McGee]

So have any of the libtards started calling Boner a terrorist yet?

White House senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer likened House Republicans to suicide bombers, kidnappers and arsonists in a single interview on Thursday. "What we're not for is negotiating with people with a bomb strapped to their chest,"

I knew it... awesome

Not only is the metaphor of taking hostages accurate for what's been going on, but it's been used by people on both sides to describe it.The most colorful metaphor I read was a California Republican rep calling his fellow Republicans lemmings with suicide vests. And that the day after the shutdown began the Republican party would be Long Duk Dong at the end of 16 Candles. They'd wake up, having passed out, in their car crashed on the front lawn.

It's not the metaphor which is ridiculous. It's how people who are supposed to be adults are acting. The are the same people who were trying to argue two years ago that there would be no consequence to the US defaulting on its debt. Basically, they have no place ordering off the adult menu, much less be in a position to influence national policy. And the current stand-off is hostage taking, pure and simple.

No. What they are doing is not the equivalent of suicide bombers. That metaphor is horrific and inappropriate. And it's not "okay because both sides do it."

What they are doing is 100% political and no where near going out in the streets and bombing random people violently. You should know better.

Harry Reid is the closest thing to a suicide bomber in this debacle, refusing children have medical research that could save their lives. Very disturbing.

 

[timschochet]

Not even about ObamaCare...just blatant power grab at everyone's expense. Swell. Won't forget this as a voter going forward.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/10/shutdown_leverage_forget_obamacare_republicans_are_using_the_shutdown_as.html

Three days into the federal shutdown, Republicans are beginning to admit that, contrary to everything they told us, they didn’t really close the government to stop Obamacare. They did it, and will keep doing it, to gain leverage in the coming fight over the debt ceiling. The government will stay shut for the next two weeks so that the GOP can accumulate power.

I'm not sure I believe this. It's contradicted by Boehner's statements yesterday that he would not allow the debt ceiling not to be raised.

The problem with using the debt ceiling as leverage is the same as it was two years ago: both sides know that in the end, the debt ceiling will have to be raised. (Certain members of the Tea Party may not know this, but thankfully Boehner does.) This means there really is no leverage. If I know you're going to do something no matter what, I'm not going to give any concessions to you for getting it done.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Not even about ObamaCare...just blatant power grab at everyone's expense. Swell. Won't forget this as a voter going forward.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/10/shutdown_leverage_forget_obamacare_republicans_are_using_the_shutdown_as.html

Three days into the federal shutdown, Republicans are beginning to admit that, contrary to everything they told us, they didn’t really close the government to stop Obamacare. They did it, and will keep doing it, to gain leverage in the coming fight over the debt ceiling. The government will stay shut for the next two weeks so that the GOP can accumulate power.

I'm not sure I believe this. It's contradicted by Boehner's statements yesterday that he would not allow the debt ceiling not to be raised.

The problem with using the debt ceiling as leverage is the same as it was two years ago: both sides know that in the end, the debt ceiling will have to be raised. (Certain members of the Tea Party may not know this, but thankfully Boehner does.) This means there really is no leverage. If I know you're going to do something no matter what, I'm not going to give any concessions to you for getting it done.

I think the overall problem right now is that the guys who think they are playing chess while their opponents are playing checkers, are in fact playing go fish while their opponents play chess.

I've run into that phenomenon in a court room. Smaller smaple size and time frame to see it happen, but it is hilarious. Problem here is that in the end the joke is on all of us.

 

[badmojo1006]

So have any of the libtards started calling Boner a terrorist yet?

White House senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer likened House Republicans to suicide bombers, kidnappers and arsonists in a single interview on Thursday. "What we're not for is negotiating with people with a bomb strapped to their chest,"

I knew it... awesome

Not only is the metaphor of taking hostages accurate for what's been going on, but it's been used by people on both sides to describe it.The most colorful metaphor I read was a California Republican rep calling his fellow Republicans lemmings with suicide vests. And that the day after the shutdown began the Republican party would be Long Duk Dong at the end of 16 Candles. They'd wake up, having passed out, in their car crashed on the front lawn.

It's not the metaphor which is ridiculous. It's how people who are supposed to be adults are acting. The are the same people who were trying to argue two years ago that there would be no consequence to the US defaulting on its debt. Basically, they have no place ordering off the adult menu, much less be in a position to influence national policy. And the current stand-off is hostage taking, pure and simple.

No. What they are doing is not the equivalent of suicide bombers. That metaphor is horrific and inappropriate. And it's not "okay because both sides do it."

What they are doing is 100% political and no where near going out in the streets and bombing random people violently. You should know better.

Harry Reid is the closest thing to a suicide bomber in this debacle, refusing children have medical research that could save their lives. Very disturbing.

Please leave this discussion

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So have any of the libtards started calling Boner a terrorist yet?

White House senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer likened House Republicans to suicide bombers, kidnappers and arsonists in a single interview on Thursday. "What we're not for is negotiating with people with a bomb strapped to their chest,"

I knew it... awesome

Not only is the metaphor of taking hostages accurate for what's been going on, but it's been used by people on both sides to describe it.The most colorful metaphor I read was a California Republican rep calling his fellow Republicans lemmings with suicide vests. And that the day after the shutdown began the Republican party would be Long Duk Dong at the end of 16 Candles. They'd wake up, having passed out, in their car crashed on the front lawn.

It's not the metaphor which is ridiculous. It's how people who are supposed to be adults are acting. The are the same people who were trying to argue two years ago that there would be no consequence to the US defaulting on its debt. Basically, they have no place ordering off the adult menu, much less be in a position to influence national policy. And the current stand-off is hostage taking, pure and simple.

Some horrible stuff coming in from both sides. Rand Paul saying there were more guards at the WWII Memorial than there were in Benghazi was particularly appalling, as is any reference at all to "jihad."

Honestly these guys are acting more like internet message board posters than they are like lawmakers and leaders.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Not even about ObamaCare...just blatant power grab at everyone's expense. Swell. Won't forget this as a voter going forward.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/10/shutdown_leverage_forget_obamacare_republicans_are_using_the_shutdown_as.html

Three days into the federal shutdown, Republicans are beginning to admit that, contrary to everything they told us, they didn’t really close the government to stop Obamacare. They did it, and will keep doing it, to gain leverage in the coming fight over the debt ceiling. The government will stay shut for the next two weeks so that the GOP can accumulate power.

That is not working out for them too well.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

GOP needs to ostracize the tea party and cause a full break and third party. It may hurt in the short term, but thats the only way to ensure the longterm survival of the republican party.

 

[LinusMarr]

I always knew the board was liberal slanted due to the media brainwashing folks. But seriously, this govt shutdown is the GOP's fault? Boy, Obama has a pretty good gig where everything bad that happens he can just blame someone else. Must be nice to have no accountability lol

 

[[icon]]

So have any of the libtards started calling Boner a terrorist yet?

White House senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer likened House Republicans to suicide bombers, kidnappers and arsonists in a single interview on Thursday. "What we're not for is negotiating with people with a bomb strapped to their chest,"

I knew it... awesome

Not only is the metaphor of taking hostages accurate for what's been going on, but it's been used by people on both sides to describe it.The most colorful metaphor I read was a California Republican rep calling his fellow Republicans lemmings with suicide vests. And that the day after the shutdown began the Republican party would be Long Duk Dong at the end of 16 Candles. They'd wake up, having passed out, in their car crashed on the front lawn.

It's not the metaphor which is ridiculous. It's how people who are supposed to be adults are acting. The are the same people who were trying to argue two years ago that there would be no consequence to the US defaulting on its debt. Basically, they have no place ordering off the adult menu, much less be in a position to influence national policy. And the current stand-off is hostage taking, pure and simple.

Oh cmon now...

So refusing to sign off of legislature = Taking hostages and blowing people up.

Good lord this thread is awesome.

 

[igbomb]

I always knew the board was liberal slanted due to the media brainwashing folks. But seriously, this govt shutdown is the GOP's fault? Boy, Obama has a pretty good gig where everything bad that happens he can just blame someone else. Must be nice to have no accountability lol

 

[[icon]]

GOP needs to ostracize the tea party and cause a full break and third party. It may hurt in the short term, but thats the only way to ensure the longterm survival of the republican party.

If GOP loses support of Tea Party then Dems will be winning everything for the foreseeable future. The Base Rep and Tea Party relationship is more a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of thing than anything. Together they have a chance. Divided neither has a shot at taking down the Democratic Super-Majority that's forming.

Again... I'm of the opinion all 3 parties have gone off the deep end and are none are truly acting in the best interests of the people/nation anymore. But that's another thread entirely. Just addressing my thoughts on the R/TP situation.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

GOP needs to ostracize the tea party and cause a full break and third party. It may hurt in the short term, but thats the only way to ensure the longterm survival of the republican party.

Absolutely and I think if they did that they new party would be dominate.

1. Small Government.

2. Friendly on social issues like abortion, gay marriage, legalization Marijuana...

3. Support national healthcare.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Oh cmon now...

So refusing to sign off of legislature = Taking hostages and blowing people up.

Good lord this thread is awesome.

Yah.

"Give in to our demands or we'll crash the federal government and, if that doesn't work, the global economy."

Sorry if jarheads think that you need a gun to take a hostage.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

GOP needs to ostracize the tea party and cause a full break and third party. It may hurt in the short term, but thats the only way to ensure the longterm survival of the republican party.

If GOP loses support of Tea Party then Dems will be winning everything for the foreseeable future. The Base Rep and Tea Party relationship is more a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of thing than anything. Together they have a chance. Divided neither has a shot at taking down the Democratic Super-Majority that's forming.

Again... I'm of the opinion all 3 parties have gone off the deep end and are none are truly acting in the best interests of the people/nation anymore. But that's another thread entirely. Just addressing my thoughts on the R/TP situation.

And they will keep losing general elections and causing this country harm. GOP needs to grow a pair.

 

[Scoresman]

Hurricane Karen would be a best case scenario for the GOP. It gives them an easy and shame-free out to cave on the shutdown and I expect to see its effects played up for all it is worth by the right-wing media.

 

[roadkill1292]

I always knew the board was liberal slanted due to the media brainwashing folks. But seriously, this govt shutdown is the GOP's fault? Boy, Obama has a pretty good gig where everything bad that happens he can just blame someone else. Must be nice to have no accountability lol

 

[Carolina Hustler]

GOP needs to ostracize the tea party and cause a full break and third party. It may hurt in the short term, but thats the only way to ensure the longterm survival of the republican party.

If GOP loses support of Tea Party then Dems will be winning everything for the foreseeable future. The Base Rep and Tea Party relationship is more a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of thing than anything. Together they have a chance. Divided neither has a shot at taking down the Democratic Super-Majority that's forming.

Again... I'm of the opinion all 3 parties have gone off the deep end and are none are truly acting in the best interests of the people/nation anymore. But that's another thread entirely. Just addressing my thoughts on the R/TP situation.

My thoughts exactly..

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I don't like Reid calling Boehner a "coward". I don't think that's helpful.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Oh cmon now...

So refusing to sign off of legislature = Taking hostages and blowing people up.

Good lord this thread is awesome.

Yah.

"Give in to our demands or we'll crash the federal government and, if that doesn't work, the global economy."

Sorry if jarheads think that you need a gun to take a hostage.

More like, either you continue to fund this farce we call "affordable" healthcare, or "we'll crash the federal government"

 

[Scoresman]

I cant believe there are what I thought were semi-reasonably intelligent posters here who think the shutdown is at all the fault of the dems.

 

[B-Deep]

I don't like Reid calling Boehner a "coward". I don't think that's helpful.

Reid is not all that great at being helpful

 

[Mark Davis]

As a fiscal conservative this whole debacle has been a great exhibit in why control of the party has been lost. You can be a conservative but willing to make deals to govern. John Boehner is in an impossible spot and I really genuinely feel bad for him. I think he knows what the end is here but is looking for the political cover to try and do it.

The polarization of the politics in the congressional districts is frightening these days. I live in what is ranked as the 5th most conservative district in the country so not nearly as far right as many here. What's discouraging is when you hear people discuss this and call the other side names but have no good idea as to what's really going on. All they know is they hate the other guy and their rationale for why makes no sense. So much of the electorate just needs a basic civics lesson.

 

[timschochet]

I don't like Reid calling Boehner a "coward". I don't think that's helpful.

None of the rhetoric is helpful. It pleases the two bases. Hopefully though these guys don't take too much offense. As Yankee has pointed out many times, the name-calling in our history was far worse, and we still survived.

 

[B-Deep]

As a fiscal conservative this whole debacle has been a great exhibit in why control of the party has been lost. You can be a conservative but willing to make deals to govern. John Boehner is in an impossible spot and I really genuinely feel bad for him. I think he knows what the end is here but is looking for the political cover to try and do it.

The polarization of the politics in the congressional districts is frightening these days. I live in what is ranked as the 5th most conservative district in the country so not nearly as far right as many here. What's discouraging is when you hear people discuss this and call the other side names but have no good idea as to what's really going on. All they know is they hate the other guy and their rationale for why makes no sense. So much of the electorate just needs a basic civics lesson.

i agree there, that dude is hosed

 

[Todd Andrews]

KooKs rule!

 

[timschochet]

The polarization of the politics in the congressional districts is frightening these days.

I think this is at the heart of everything. After Romney lost, several very reasonable Republican leaders, such as Bobby Jindal and John Huntsman, argued that the GOP had to do more to attract independents. That meant arguing free market principles and limited government without extremism, moving away from social issues, and solving the illegal immigration issue in a way that would not alienate Latinos. When I heard them say this, I cheered, but I also knew that it was unlikely because of the gerrymandering, and the polarization you mentioned.

What has happened in the year since the election? The GOP hasn't done ANY of the things that Jindal and Huntsman advised: instead, they've doubled down in the other direction- defeating moderate gun control legislation that polls show most Americans wanted, not allowing immigration reform to be voted on, and now this: opposing Obama through extreme methods of allowing the government to be shut down. They are acting in lockstep with most of their constituents, who are conservative, white, and over 40. But they are alienating the majority of the public.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

 

[timschochet]

The other issue is the gerrymandering. Ironically both Republicans and Democrats worked together to make this happen. But the reality is that "safe seats" makes compromise unlikely and polarized politics inevitable. It gives far greater power to extremist attitudes than they should have based on the polls.

How can we resolve this? Yankee? Anyone?

 

[Scoresman]

SInce the House has enough votes and the Speaker won't let a clean bill go to the floor, Speaker Boehner is now the only person standing between us and a functioning government. The Dems need to make that the talking point. They need to drive it home forever.

They need to say that he is doing this because he is afraid of the Tea Party and wants to protect his job as speaker. He is putting his career ahead of the security and prosperity of 300 million Americans. He has fundamentally abdicated his duty to the American people and should resign.

Dems need to target the Speaker the way they have targeted the President. They need to make him fear for his job by keeping the govt shut down just as much as by letting it open back up again.

 

[drummer]

So who is in control of the GOP? Boehner, or Cantor/Ryan?

 

[The Commish]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

bingo

 

[timschochet]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

bingo

You're both right. However, this is not the same as suggesting that there's one side who deserves more of the blame for this mess than the other side.

 

[[icon]]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

bingo

 

[moleculo]

if the government is so shut down, why are they still taking money out of my paycheck?

Thanks, Obama.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

SInce the House has enough votes and the Speaker won't let a clean bill go to the floor, Speaker Boehner is now the only person standing between us and a functioning government. The Dems need to make that the talking point. They need to drive it home forever.

They need to say that he is doing this because he is afraid of the Tea Party and wants to protect his job as speaker. He is putting his career ahead of the security and prosperity of 300 million Americans. He has fundamentally abdicated his duty to the American people and should resign.

Dems need to target the Speaker the way they have targeted the President. They need to make him fear for his job by keeping the govt shut down just as much as by letting it open back up again.

That is almost verbatim what Reid said on CNN.

 

[badmojo1006]

SInce the House has enough votes and the Speaker won't let a clean bill go to the floor, Speaker Boehner is now the only person standing between us and a functioning government. The Dems need to make that the talking point. They need to drive it home forever.

They need to say that he is doing this because he is afraid of the Tea Party and wants to protect his job as speaker. He is putting his career ahead of the security and prosperity of 300 million Americans. He has fundamentally abdicated his duty to the American people and should resign.

Dems need to target the Speaker the way they have targeted the President. They need to make him fear for his job by keeping the govt shut down just as much as by letting it open back up again.

That is what Harry Reid is saying when he called Boehner a "Coward". Though I really wish he wouldn't have used that word. Just fans the flames even worse

 

[drummer]

SInce the House has enough votes and the Speaker won't let a clean bill go to the floor, Speaker Boehner is now the only person standing between us and a functioning government. The Dems need to make that the talking point. They need to drive it home forever.

They need to say that he is doing this because he is afraid of the Tea Party and wants to protect his job as speaker. He is putting his career ahead of the security and prosperity of 300 million Americans. He has fundamentally abdicated his duty to the American people and should resign.

Dems need to target the Speaker the way they have targeted the President. They need to make him fear for his job by keeping the govt shut down just as much as by letting it open back up again.

Makes more sense to keep Boehner as speaker than Cantor, who is gunning for it. That's what this whole mess is about.

 

[[icon]]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

bingo

You're both right. However, this is not the same as suggesting that there's one side who deserves more of the blame for this mess than the other side.

You know, sometimes you're about as sharp as a wet sock.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

bingo

You're both right. However, this is not the same as suggesting that there's one side who deserves more of the blame for this mess than the other side.

I disagree. I think they are both wrong. And a shutdown means that neither side is doing a good job.

Now if you want to run around shouting, "Yay! My side is incompetent, but slightly less incompetent than the other guys!", that's cool.

One side shut down the government and the other side said they won't make any compromises to get it back up and running. Both sides are at fault.

 

[glumpy]

GOP needs to ostracize the tea party and cause a full break and third party. It may hurt in the short term, but thats the only way to ensure the longterm survival of the republican party.

If GOP loses support of Tea Party then Dems will be winning everything for the foreseeable future. The Base Rep and Tea Party relationship is more a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of thing than anything. Together they have a chance. Divided neither has a shot at taking down the Democratic Super-Majority that's forming.

Again... I'm of the opinion all 3 parties have gone off the deep end and are none are truly acting in the best interests of the people/nation anymore. But that's another thread entirely. Just addressing my thoughts on the R/TP situation.

Yeah--I don't think it's necessarily a party thing. Where else can you get such a compensation and benefits package, medical coverage and even retirement over a shorter term for less effort? They're certainly not in it on our behalf.

 

[Doug B]

So ... let's say Boehner acts more or less unlaterally and calls a clean CR bill for a vote. By what process would he then involuntarily lose his SOH position?

EDIT: I didn't think there were enough Tea Party Congressmen (only 40 or so, right?) to somehow vote Boener out. So even if there were some kind of no-confidence vote among strictly the Republican Congressmen ... wouldn't Boener still come out on top by a score of something like 180-40?

 

[Bonzai]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

bingo

It's a nice sentiment, but the fact is that when someone does something stupid they need to get called out on it. If we always fall back on, "yeah, but the other side is stupid sometimes too!", the idiots in both parties just get stronger and stronger.

 

[timschochet]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

bingo

You're both right. However, this is not the same as suggesting that there's one side who deserves more of the blame for this mess than the other side.

I disagree. I think they are both wrong. And a shutdown means that neither side is doing a good job.

Now if you want to run around shouting, "Yay! My side is incompetent, but slightly less incompetent than the other guys!", that's cool.

One side shut down the government and the other side said they won't make any compromises to get it back up and running. Both sides are at fault.

The bolded statement is simply incorrect, and I really wish people stop repeating it.

It's not true because there is no way that Obama and the Dems can compromise with the demands set forth. The demands set forth by the House, which basically involved the dismantling of Obamacare, were completely unreasonable. They were designed to be unreasonable. They were not offered with the hope of a give and take negotiation. Furthermore, by placing these demands within the context of a threat to shut down the government and damage the economy, they put Obama in an impossible situation, in which if he agreed to negotiate it would be akin to the surrender of his Presidency. And again this was by design.

I'm sorry you can't see this. But both sides are not at fault.

 

[Doug B]

One side shut down the government and the other side said they won't make any compromises to get it back up and running. Both sides are at fault.

Lifelong Republican voter here:

There are no reasonable compromises for Democrats to make from their own perspective. Democrats should treat all aspects of Obamacare as inviolable, or else this same shutdown tactic will be used in the future (by either party).

Piggybacking boutique spending bills onto the annual appropriations bill should be forbidden going forward. Probably needs a constitutional amendment to enforce that, but still. What's going on now is dirty pool, and should be considered by all and sundry as out-of-bounds.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

bingo

You're both right. However, this is not the same as suggesting that there's one side who deserves more of the blame for this mess than the other side.

I disagree. I think they are both wrong. And a shutdown means that neither side is doing a good job.

Now if you want to run around shouting, "Yay! My side is incompetent, but slightly less incompetent than the other guys!", that's cool.

One side shut down the government and the other side said they won't make any compromises to get it back up and running. Both sides are at fault.

The bolded statement is simply incorrect, and I really wish people stop repeating it.

It's not true because there is no way that Obama and the Dems can compromise with the demands set forth. The demands set forth by the House, which basically involved the dismantling of Obamacare, were completely unreasonable. They were designed to be unreasonable. They were not offered with the hope of a give and take negotiation. Furthermore, by placing these demands within the context of a threat to shut down the government and damage the economy, they put Obama in an impossible situation, in which if he agreed to negotiate it would be akin to the surrender of his Presidency. And again this was by design.

I'm sorry you can't see this. But both sides are not at fault.

I'm not going to get pulled back into a political argument. I've stated here many times that I do not have a "side" in this. And as a impartial observer, my opinion is that both sides are wrong.

Please note that I have said "my opinion."

 

[drummer]

I think anyone who looks at this situation and says "our side is winning" and/or "their side is losing" is part of the problem.

bingo

You're both right. However, this is not the same as suggesting that there's one side who deserves more of the blame for this mess than the other side.

I disagree. I think they are both wrong. And a shutdown means that neither side is doing a good job.

Now if you want to run around shouting, "Yay! My side is incompetent, but slightly less incompetent than the other guys!", that's cool.

One side shut down the government and the other side said they won't make any compromises to get it back up and running. Both sides are at fault.

The bolded statement is simply incorrect, and I really wish people stop repeating it.

It's not true because there is no way that Obama and the Dems can compromise with the demands set forth. The demands set forth by the House, which basically involved the dismantling of Obamacare, were completely unreasonable. They were designed to be unreasonable. They were not offered with the hope of a give and take negotiation. Furthermore, by placing these demands within the context of a threat to shut down the government and damage the economy, they put Obama in an impossible situation, in which if he agreed to negotiate it would be akin to the surrender of his Presidency. And again this was by design.

I'm sorry you can't see this. But both sides are not at fault.

I'm not going to get pulled back into a political argument. I've stated here many times that I do not have a "side" in this. And as a impartial observer, my opinion is that both sides are wrong.

Please note that I have said "my opinion."

One side shut down the government and the other side said they won't make any compromises to get it back up and running. Both sides are at fault.

I'm repeating it because it's true.