The top TBD Books of all time: FBG consensus (1 Viewer)

[Instinctive]

Wheel of Time, for example, would be one entry because the 14 books are one story.

Of all of the examples you could have picked ...
OK, I guess I've got to institute the Fiver rule (IYKYK).

I think we should hold the line at 1 book per ranking. The only exception would be to allow for the Lord of the Rings - publisher decision to split; if there are verifiable others, we'll allow. Otherwise, each books stands alone.

There's no reason you can't discuss the series w/r/t whichever book(s) you choose to rank. To be clear, this will effect several of my rankings as well, but if we're only doing 50, the choices should be difficult.

I just want clarification of if we are doing fiction vs novels as well. For example, certain story collections my Mr. King allowed here, or stick to novels?

Fiction only. Collections of fictional short stories
Using Mr. King as an example, Secret Windows: Essays and Fiction on the Craft of Writing and Danse Macabre would not qualify, whereas Night Shift certainly would.

Your show man.

I'll have to think about whether it's worth doing. I think it's plenty difficult without trying to pick through the best middle book of giant series and whether 3 of them were awesome, or whether all of them are eliminated because a story is a story.

I'll follow along regardless. Or maybe my list will just be like four books series with every entry in there for completeness...

 

[Uruk-Hai]

OK, so here's where I'm at right now.
Seems like 50 is the popular choice. That said, it is probably best to limit it to fiction only.
In thinking about a scoring system, I think it should be something that puts greater weight on everyone's top 20 (rather than a straight-line #1 gets 50 points down to #50 gets 1 point). So top 20 gets a bonus and we'd pick up straight-line scoring with book 21.

Perhaps

Rank Points
1 100
2 97
3 94
4 91
5 87
6 84
7 81
8 78
9 74
10 71
11 67
12 63
13 58
14 54
15 50
16 47
17 43
18 40
19 37
20 35
21 30
22 29
23 28
24 27
25 26
26 25
27 24
28 23
29 22
30 21
31 20
32 19
33 18
34 17
35 16
36 15
37 14
38 13
39 12
40 11
41 10
42 9
43 8
44 7
45 6
46 5
47 4
48 3
49 2
50 1

Still spit ballin' here, so keep the feedback coming.

Loving it

I talked about this with my wife a bit, and she suggested series get handled as one entry with a parenthetical for your 1-2 favorites.

The thought was "it's about the story of a world." When pressured with, say, Shannara, the reaction was "while that's one world, it's really more like 10 different 3-5 book series." I'd handle a trilogy as one entry, but not group all 30+ books as one entry.

Wheel of Time, for example, would be one entry because the 14 books are one story.

Harry Potter would be one entry, the 7 books are one story.

But Salvatore's Drizzt books...Icewind Dale trilogy would be one entry, the Neverwinter tetralogy another. Rather than all 30+ books as one entry.

Lord of the Rings? One entry. The Hobbit? Separate entry.

Does that make sense to you and others? It's really about ranking a story, vs where the story happened to be split up.

Yeah, this is what I was championing upthread. But I'll play with whatever rules the group wants.

 

[Instinctive]

OK, so here's where I'm at right now.
Seems like 50 is the popular choice. That said, it is probably best to limit it to fiction only.
In thinking about a scoring system, I think it should be something that puts greater weight on everyone's top 20 (rather than a straight-line #1 gets 50 points down to #50 gets 1 point). So top 20 gets a bonus and we'd pick up straight-line scoring with book 21.

Perhaps

Rank Points
1 100
2 97
3 94
4 91
5 87
6 84
7 81
8 78
9 74
10 71
11 67
12 63
13 58
14 54
15 50
16 47
17 43
18 40
19 37
20 35
21 30
22 29
23 28
24 27
25 26
26 25
27 24
28 23
29 22
30 21
31 20
32 19
33 18
34 17
35 16
36 15
37 14
38 13
39 12
40 11
41 10
42 9
43 8
44 7
45 6
46 5
47 4
48 3
49 2
50 1

Still spit ballin' here, so keep the feedback coming.

Loving it

I talked about this with my wife a bit, and she suggested series get handled as one entry with a parenthetical for your 1-2 favorites.

The thought was "it's about the story of a world." When pressured with, say, Shannara, the reaction was "while that's one world, it's really more like 10 different 3-5 book series." I'd handle a trilogy as one entry, but not group all 30+ books as one entry.

Wheel of Time, for example, would be one entry because the 14 books are one story.

Harry Potter would be one entry, the 7 books are one story.

But Salvatore's Drizzt books...Icewind Dale trilogy would be one entry, the Neverwinter tetralogy another. Rather than all 30+ books as one entry.

Lord of the Rings? One entry. The Hobbit? Separate entry.

Does that make sense to you and others? It's really about ranking a story, vs where the story happened to be split up.

Yeah, this is what I was championing upthread. But I'll play with whatever rules the group wants.

I guess the other reason I think it matters is like...obviously something like Harry Potter is going to be somewhat of a factor in many people's lives. But if we're doing a top 100/50 countdown for the forum, is it really the best discussion fostering if we have like 80th is one book, 67th is another, 75th is a third, and 3 more get honorable mentions because everyone kinda felt like I had to pick one or two because there are so many other series and books, but we all kinda pick different ones and something that maybe would have been like 6th and been really seen is now kinda randomly spread out.

ETA: and LoTR is a weird exception to make. We have no idea how much publisher influence was on so many of these stories or being moved from 2 books to three or one to four or whatever. We just know it for this particular trilogy because it's Uber famous.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

I’m interested and hope the consensus of 50 holds. Unlike some of you I only average a few a year, so the bottom of my list might have some middling stuff if it gets too long.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

We just know it for this particular trilogy because it's Uber famous.

Well, we also have documentation from the author and the publisher in LOTR's case. If it saves heartache, split it up. I don't care.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Ok, rank each book separately
Hopefully that doesn't cause anyone.to drop out or choose not to participate

It does make things easier but harder.

It makes a top 50 way too few IMO. Especially if, like me, your favorites are fantasy series. Often 8+ books each. I would have far preferred a series be one entry and then in discussion phase we can elaborate on the ups and downs, faves, etc.

Yeah I might agree. Wil a lot of books get pushed off the list because some of the most popular book series place 2,3,4 books on the list?

This will be fun for discussions too. Most of the time when I am think about a series there is one that stands out to me, but in others choosing one would be painful. I might try to just one/series, but that also will make some huge series show up lower on the countdown if 10 of us choose 6 different books to score.

 

[timschochet]

I think if you’re going to have Lord of the Rings as one book, then any other series with a CONTINUING storyline should be one book as well.

For example:

1. George R R Martins Song of Ice and Fire should be regarded as one selection as the story continues from book to book.

2. Lee Child’s Jack Reacher series should NOT be regarded as one selection because each book can stand on its own even though they feature the same character.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Wheel of Time, for example, would be one entry because the 14 books are one story.

Of all of the examples you could have picked ...
OK, I guess I've got to institute the Fiver rule (IYKYK).

I think we should hold the line at 1 book per ranking. The only exception would be to allow for the Lord of the Rings - publisher decision to split; if there are verifiable others, we'll allow. Otherwise, each books stands alone.

There's no reason you can't discuss the series w/r/t whichever book(s) you choose to rank. To be clear, this will effect several of my rankings as well, but if we're only doing 50, the choices should be difficult.

I just want clarification of if we are doing fiction vs novels as well. For example, certain story collections my Mr. King allowed here, or stick to novels?

Fiction only. Collections of fictional short stories
Using Mr. King as an example, Secret Windows: Essays and Fiction on the Craft of Writing and Danse Macabre would not qualify, whereas Night Shift certainly would.

Your show man.

I'll have to think about whether it's worth doing. I think it's plenty difficult without trying to pick through the best middle book of giant series and whether 3 of them were awesome, or whether all of them are eliminated because a story is a story.

I'll follow along regardless. Or maybe my list will just be like four books series with every entry in there for completeness...

I’d look at it that for this purpose, if you pick one book from the series it’s representing the series and opens you up to discuss the entire series if you choose to.

 

[Eephus]

I’d look at it that for this purpose, if you pick one book from the series it’s representing the series and opens you up to discuss the entire series if you choose to.

That assumes the individual book makes it to the countdown thread which seems less likely that if the series was considered as a whole.

 

[scoobus]

Splitting books would definitely help me get to 50 easier haha. Also for something like LOTR, I'd have wildly different ratings for each of the 3 books. But whatever y'all decide is cool.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I’d look at it that for this purpose, if you pick one book from the series it’s representing the series and opens you up to discuss the entire series if you choose to.

That assumes the individual book makes it to the countdown thread which seems less likely that if the series was considered as a whole.

Fair point. I’m ok either way. Just need to know the final criteria.

 

[Don Quixote]

I’d look at it that for this purpose, if you pick one book from the series it’s representing the series and opens you up to discuss the entire series if you choose to.

That assumes the individual book makes it to the countdown thread which seems less likely that if the series was considered as a whole.

Fair point. I’m ok either way. Just need to know the final criteria.

I have some books under consideration where I’m not sure if they are considered part of a series or not. And I’ve read one or more books in the potential series, but not all of them. So, I’d feel comfortable ranking the individual book, but not the series.

Like, I’d consider including something like Gilead on my list. But I have not read some of the companion novels. So, I probably lean to individual books to take some of that out of it. But will figure it out whatever the rule is.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I’d look at it that for this purpose, if you pick one book from the series it’s representing the series and opens you up to discuss the entire series if you choose to.

That assumes the individual book makes it to the countdown thread which seems less likely that if the series was considered as a whole.

Fair point. I’m ok either way. Just need to know the final criteria.

I have some books under consideration where I’m not sure if they are considered part of a series or not. And I’ve read one or more books in the potential series, but not all of them. So, I’d feel comfortable ranking the individual book, but not the series.

Like, I’d consider including something like Gilead on my list. But I have not read some of the companion novels. So, I probably lean to individual books to take some of that out of it. But will figure it out whatever the rule is.

I like the idea of having to decide on a book or two in a series or just taking them all. IMO we should do individual books, but then increase the number we submit to closer to 100. I am open to whatever, though.

 

[Psychopav]

I have come around on the series thing. Especially with submitting lists of just 50, if we split the books, there are series that might be in danger of not making the list at all even if lots of people love them, just because different people like different books. Also, I may be less willing to put other books on my list because I'm limited in the total count. For example, my favorite HP book is Prisoner of Azkaban. Others' might be the Goblet of Fire. I could see a scenario where Prisoner of Azkaban makes my top 50 but none of the other HP books do, and the entire series as a whole would definitely make the cut. Someone else's favorite may be Goblet of Fire, but not Prisoner of Azkaban enough to include in their top 50. What if neither of our books gets past the threshold for the top list where if we both picked just Harry Potter Series our votes would have compounded?

Also, I'm not ranking the bible if this is a fiction thread only, and I'm not a fundamentalist. Just FYI.

 

[Eephus]

Series or no series, I'll probably score as low on the commonality index as I did in the TV poll

So far, it's been a good exercise to jog my memory about stuff I've read in the past.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Series or no series, I'll probably score as low on the commonality index as I did in the TV poll

So far, it's been a good exercise to jog my memory about stuff I've read in the past.

Two of the first I wrote down were books from series that were huge for me as a pre-teen, but I've never met anybody else IRL that has read them or most often even heard of them. I had to buy a couple books in one to prove it, but the other set is OOP and I'm not paying $70-300 per book for that.

 

[scoobus]

Come to think of it, there's some series that I would have quite a bit of trouble differentiating between the books.

 

[scoobus]

Maybe you submit for just the series, but in your submission you select what your favorite book from the series was as well. Then when it gets revealed, underneath it we can put how many votes each individual book in the series got, generating more discussion.

But whatever is decided, I'll do!

 

[Instinctive]

Maybe you submit for just the series, but in your submission you select what your favorite book from the series was as well. Then when it gets revealed, underneath it we can put how many votes each individual book in the series got, generating more discussion.

But whatever is decided, I'll do!

This is exactly where I was going too.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

So it’s definitely just fiction now, correct?

 

[Chaos34]

If I'm gonna do this I better start reading.

 

[kupcho1]

So it’s definitely just fiction now, correct?

Yes. If someone cares to follow up with the nonfiction version, sounds like there'd be some interest.

 

[kupcho1]

Thanks for all of the input!
Here's where I'm at currently based on what I've heard.

A lot of people love book series: duologies, trilogies, even 14 book series that bog so far way down in the middle formerly enthusiastic readers quit and never finish the series. (Shots fired! Hey, I thought there was a Fiver rule. Guess that's not until the official thread.)

I like series. Really I do. I've been working on a list and went back and forth on a particular trilogy. I even did some research hoping to find the publisher was behind the split in the story. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

However, even though there are some great series out there, in the end, this is a countdown of books. I think including series a single entry gives them way too much of an advantage against stand-alone books. The original post states: Books, no stories. So, each book must be ranked as a single entry.

With one exception: The Lord of the Rings. Partly because of the whole publisher thing, partly to make heads explode. (I kid, I kid, and hope you stay involved.)

That said, I think 70 books should be the number. In addition to continuing the blatant copying of scoresman, it gives 20 additional slots for you to add as many books in a series as you'd like.

I'd need to tweak the scoring system a bit to account for 20 more, but the general concept remains the same. I'd want to give the top 25 books (vs. 20 with 50 slots) a greater weight working from #1 on down.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If limited to just fiction 70 is going to be stretch for me but will give it a try.

 

[Chaos34]

Here's where I'm at currently based on what I've heard.

Sounds like you settled on just fiction?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

With one exception: The Lord of the Rings. Partly because of the whole publisher thing, partly to make heads explode.

I'm gonna split them. It's not fair for me to include it as one when others rank the individual volumes. Others can do what they'd like.

 

[Chaos34]

If limited to just fiction 70 is going to be stretch for me but will give it a try.

Same. I think. I searched a few favorite authors to jog my memory and the numbers piled up rapidly. I've pretty much only read non-fiction for a couple decades though.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

With one exception: The Lord of the Rings. Partly because of the whole publisher thing, partly to make heads explode.

I'm gonna split them. It's not fair for me to include it as one when others rank the individual volumes. Others can do what they'd like.

Unless you're saying LOTR HAS to be one selection. Then, I'll go with one.

 

[Instinctive]

Decision made. Not everything has to be for everyone is a mantra of mine, so I respect it.

I'll check in to see how the fiction functionally excluding the genre of high fantasy countdown turns out, and see if there's some highly rated stuff I should expand my horizons to.

Maybe I'll get off my *** and run the book series version after. Be the change you wish to see right?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Books?

 

[Chaos34]

Books?

Yes books. Think of them as really long tweets with fewer likes.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

I’ll follow along but my fiction reading is pretty limited. If it’s not King, Koontz or something from the Bunnicula or Ramona Quimby universe i probably haven’t read it
Oh and Star Wars…lots of Star Wars

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Oh and a bunch of classic literature I had to read for school

 

[Ilov80s]

Starting on my list and forgot that In Cold Blood and Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evl, althought being written in a very novelistic approach are works of non-fiction

 

[Eephus]

What's the deal with short story collections, plays and books of poetry?

 

[Don Quixote]

What's the deal with short story collections, plays and books of poetry?

I think kupcho said earlier that short story collections counted as one book. He mentioned a Stephen King short story collection that was eligible as one book as an example.

I can’t speak for plays or poetry.

 

[kupcho1]

What's the deal with short story collections, plays and books of poetry?

I'm gonna pull a page from the Pulitzers and include short story collections, but exclude plays and poetry.
Both great ideas for follow up lists, though.

 

[kupcho1]

Starting on my list and forgot that In Cold Blood and Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evl, althought being written in a very novelistic approach are works of non-fiction

And yet somehow The Executioner's Song seems to qualify as fiction.

Spoiler
It won't be on my list.

 

[Eephus]

Starting on my list and forgot that In Cold Blood and Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evl, althought being written in a very novelistic approach are works of non-fiction

And yet somehow The Executioner's Song seems to qualify as fiction.

Spoiler
It won't be on my list.

Really? I crossed it off mine assuming it was non-fiction

 

[kupcho1]

Starting on my list and forgot that In Cold Blood and Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evl, althought being written in a very novelistic approach are works of non-fiction

And yet somehow The Executioner's Song seems to qualify as fiction.

Spoiler
It won't be on my list.

Really? I crossed it off mine assuming it was non-fiction

Mailer was quoted at the time (NYT) of release calling it a novel.

 

[Eephus]

Starting on my list and forgot that In Cold Blood and Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evl, althought being written in a very novelistic approach are works of non-fiction

And yet somehow The Executioner's Song seems to qualify as fiction.

Spoiler
It won't be on my list.

Really? I crossed it off mine assuming it was non-fiction

Mailer was quoted at the time (NYT) of release calling it a novel.

I think he did the same schtick with Armies of the Night but as always, Mailer is an unreliable source.

 

[kupcho1]

Starting on my list and forgot that In Cold Blood and Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evl, althought being written in a very novelistic approach are works of non-fiction

And yet somehow The Executioner's Song seems to qualify as fiction.

Spoiler
It won't be on my list.

Really? I crossed it off mine assuming it was non-fiction

Mailer was quoted at the time (NYT) of release calling it a novel.

I think he did the same schtick with Armies of the Night but as always, Mailer is an unreliable source.

I'm plowing through the Executioner's Song and I have arrived at a 2 word description of Mailer: Tabloid Hemingway

 

[Eephus]

Starting on my list and forgot that In Cold Blood and Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evl, althought being written in a very novelistic approach are works of non-fiction

And yet somehow The Executioner's Song seems to qualify as fiction.

Spoiler
It won't be on my list.

Really? I crossed it off mine assuming it was non-fiction

Mailer was quoted at the time (NYT) of release calling it a novel.

I think he did the same schtick with Armies of the Night but as always, Mailer is an unreliable source.

I'm plowing through the Executioner's Song and I have arrived at a 2 word description of Mailer: Tabloid Hemingway

Mailer's prose in Executioner's Song is unusually straightforward for him.

There's no way my current brain would be able to process the interminable sentences in Why Are We In Vietnam?

 

[Psychopav]

So LotR is one entry?

What's the due date for our list of 70?

 

[kupcho1]

So LotR is one entry?

What's the due date for our list of 70?

Yes, LotR will only count as 1 entry
Due date TBD. I'd like to time it so it's around when scoresman's tv ranking is complete

 

[Chaos34]

Fwiw, I consider The Executioner's Song non-fiction.

 

[Eephus]

Fwiw, I consider The Executioner's Song non-fiction.

It's clearly non-fiction but the author considered it a novel, which I guess it is structurally accurate

 

[krista4]

I'll probably score as low on the commonality index as I did in the TV poll

I think I could score lower than you on this one, based on the discussion in the thread. I'm not sure it's even worth lobbing in a list.

 

[The Dreaded Marco]

I'll probably score as low on the commonality index as I did in the TV poll

I think I could score lower than you on this one, based on the discussion in the thread. I'm not sure it's even worth lobbing in a list.

Mrs. Marco is having a similar feeling.

 

[Don Quixote]

I'll probably score as low on the commonality index as I did in the TV poll

I think I could score lower than you on this one, based on the discussion in the thread. I'm not sure it's even worth lobbing in a list.

Mrs. Marco is having a similar feeling.

I’m not trying to spoil some of the books that would be on mine, but I’m going to have very few (if any) of the sci-fi/fantasy that others have been talking about.

What sort of books are some of y’all thinking about? Welcome to PM if want to gauge if some like-minded taking part.