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They Chicken Little'd Themselves So Badly That We're Stuck With This Monstrosity of a Man (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockaction
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
i think this comment wins the thread. This might well be accurate. Boy who cried wolf is sort of better because it had true issue a that could have been avoided if the boy weren’t crying wolf all the timemoleculo said:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Both things can be and probably are true. Democrats/Liberals absolutely have exaggerated conservative positions and claimed if the GOP does A then we are going to end up with Z while skipping the B, C, D, etc. At the same time, the Republican Party has been cozying up to some really authoritarian and populist elements for decades now. It's been a long road to get us to this current political dead end.
dkp993
Footballguy
I agree with this analogy and analysis in regards to Trump. So the equivalent for the right is if in the next few cycles a true socialist gets elected.
Yes, the criticisms of Bush, McCain, and Romney were way over the top and did have a wolf-crying effect. (By the same token, wait until you hear some of the criticisms of Obama, Clinton, and Biden.)
But the fact that MAGA people won't listen to liberals about Trump says way more about MAGA people than it does about liberals. After all, MAGA people won't listen to Bush, Romney, or McCain, either.
But the fact that MAGA people won't listen to liberals about Trump says way more about MAGA people than it does about liberals. After all, MAGA people won't listen to Bush, Romney, or McCain, either.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Don't sell yourself short! This thread is way stupider! Anyway, glad to see you're being consistent in terms of making excuses for bigots
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Perfect namesake and avatar. “This painting is an abortion!”
I love that part. Of all people, a Catholic should know better than to call an old lady’s painting an abortion. So clueless.
I love that part. Of all people, a Catholic should know better than to call an old lady’s painting an abortion. So clueless.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Clinton's opponents back in the '90s literally accused him of murder. They've accused Biden of being a pedophile.
Why does everyone feel the need to "to be sure" RA's ridiculous premise? Yes, political rhetoric is often over-the-top. I was about to say it's gotten worse in recent years, but then I realized that's probably not even true (Google "rum, Romanism and rebellion", "I want my pa!" or "JFK wanted for treason".)
There were plenty of things individuals on the left said about recent GOP presidents/nominees that I didn't agree with, but relative to historical campaigns I don't think Democrats were particularly vicious. The most negative presidential campaign in my lifetime was probably Bush Sr vs. Dukakis. (I wasn't alive for LBJ vs. Goldwater, but I would say that the infamous "Daisy ad" definitely qualifies as "over the top").
If you want to claim that recent Democratic rhetoric has been worse, I'm going to need to see some actual proof. And even so, citing it as an excuse for Trump is still garbage
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Zegras11
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
"I've come to the realization that i supported an evil republican so I'll... (checks notes) blame the democrats"
This isn't an epiphany its just more cognitive dissonance. Let me know when you come to grips with what you've done. This is just more of the same.
This isn't an epiphany its just more cognitive dissonance. Let me know when you come to grips with what you've done. This is just more of the same.
rockaction
Footballguy
This would be a stunning observation if I had ever supported him. In fact, I think there's an easy search to do. Go to the search function and bring up "Resident Right-Winger, Does Not Support, Donald Trump" and you've likely got a thread that none other than yours truly started in 2016 or 2017. I never supported Trump, and can point to personal emails that I sent to people around his election saying I would have voted for Hillary if I lived in a swing state.
In fact, I'm so politically astute that I said it was partially because of his response to questions about NATO, which I found severely lacking in substance and in spirit. It was awful.
So try another tree to bark up.
rockaction
Footballguy
It's now at the top of the FFA.
You're welcome. Bless all of you, trying as hard as possible.
You're welcome. Bless all of you, trying as hard as possible.
rockaction
Footballguy
It would have been if Goldwater hadn't suggested, in his book, that we could nuke Vietnam to get the leaves off of the trees.
That was in his book. He said that.
rockaction
Footballguy
This certainly has been an exercise in projection. I'm claiming that the cries of fascism diluted the object of the cries so badly that it inured people to the charge, and that they're responding thusly.
It's not too hard a concept. If you look at everything and call everything bad, people start to behave in truly bad ways. It's actually a leftist behavioralist concept, that postulation. That people live up to the names they're being called. It's as simple as that.
Not only that, but there's concord issues whereby each party agrees to keep their fringes in the background so long as the other party doesn't attack them and smear them with the characteristics of the fringe. That went out the window with Reagan and then George W. Bush, especially. It really started with Goldwater's "Deep in your heart, you know he's right" slogan, which was answered thusly. "How right? Far right."
Yes, all these things happened and left the charge toothless and rather feckless when somebody who really had no use for the Constitution came around. Indeed, the jiggery-pokery with said Constitution in the form of the Warren Court caused conservatives to take charges of anti-democratic leanings less seriously (anyone not understanding that point can take a civics lesson from IK regarding the subject in the Roe v. Wade thread) than they would have if not for nine unelected lawyers determining very legislative decisions. Who is the anti-democrat, again?
It's simple #### like that that everyone misses unless I explain myself in painstaking detail. Instead it becomes trite arguments about agency or lack thereof, and blame-shifting, and other typical stuff.
Never once does it cause somebody to look in the mirror and say "guilty as charged."
It's not too hard a concept. If you look at everything and call everything bad, people start to behave in truly bad ways. It's actually a leftist behavioralist concept, that postulation. That people live up to the names they're being called. It's as simple as that.
Not only that, but there's concord issues whereby each party agrees to keep their fringes in the background so long as the other party doesn't attack them and smear them with the characteristics of the fringe. That went out the window with Reagan and then George W. Bush, especially. It really started with Goldwater's "Deep in your heart, you know he's right" slogan, which was answered thusly. "How right? Far right."
Yes, all these things happened and left the charge toothless and rather feckless when somebody who really had no use for the Constitution came around. Indeed, the jiggery-pokery with said Constitution in the form of the Warren Court caused conservatives to take charges of anti-democratic leanings less seriously (anyone not understanding that point can take a civics lesson from IK regarding the subject in the Roe v. Wade thread) than they would have if not for nine unelected lawyers determining very legislative decisions. Who is the anti-democrat, again?
It's simple #### like that that everyone misses unless I explain myself in painstaking detail. Instead it becomes trite arguments about agency or lack thereof, and blame-shifting, and other typical stuff.
Never once does it cause somebody to look in the mirror and say "guilty as charged."
bostonfred
Footballguy
This you?I knew I was making a big mistake with Trump and did it anyway.
This is one of those times I can simply say I should know better.
rockaction
Footballguy
And there needs to be some mirror-looking as far as I'm concerned. The populace could use a heaping helping of it.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, you might want to give the context of that quote. I've never supported Trump. The only person I supported was Bannon when he said he wanted to do away with the administrative state. I defended him then.
Seriously, what more proof do you need than almost getting suspended in the Rand Paul thread and taking out threads at no prompting that are clearly against Trump?
rockaction
Footballguy
That was in context of bringing him up in a thread that started discussing about whether the board skewed right or left.
I knew better than to bring him up, but I did. That's what I'm talking about there, if you follow along.
That's what that is.
Reading context down, or is taking out a big thread that is before the quote you linked to enough?
What more would I have needed to do?
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rockaction
Footballguy
In fact, if we can go back to the Rand Paul thread, you can see me getting in a fight with Lutherman2112 and krista4 and saying that it's not funny that Trump is going to win a primary because he's a disaster. I'll see if I can't find those quotes, which are from when I lived in CT.
Zegras11
Footballguy
and just a few hours ago...
Trump: As President, I wanted to give myself the Congressional Medal of Honor but they wouldn’t let me do it.. They said that would be inappropriate
rockaction
Footballguy
Just for more edification:
rockaction
Members
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Gender:Male
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Interests:Fact Chess
Posted July 23, 2015
Going to support Paul then Walker then Johnson, in that order.
Libertarians might get my vote in '16.
rockaction
Members
74.3k
Gender:Male
Location:Helicon
Interests:Fact Chess
Posted July 23, 2015
Going to support Paul then Walker then Johnson, in that order.
Libertarians might get my vote in '16.
rockaction
Footballguy
Another quote, this time from 2016
From the libertarian thread:
rockaction
Posted May 4, 2016
I'm, as always, completely sure of who I'm voting for if I vote at all. That said, unlike in some years past I know it won't be one of the two major parties.
Also, I have no problem not voting. That's another option if Johnson is too bound to the LP platform, which is often rather ideologically inflexible. I don't need tsk-tskers and tut-tutters telling me about my civic and moral duty. If I don't want to vote, I ain't voting.
From the libertarian thread:
rockaction
Posted May 4, 2016
I'm, as always, completely sure of who I'm voting for if I vote at all. That said, unlike in some years past I know it won't be one of the two major parties.
Also, I have no problem not voting. That's another option if Johnson is too bound to the LP platform, which is often rather ideologically inflexible. I don't need tsk-tskers and tut-tutters telling me about my civic and moral duty. If I don't want to vote, I ain't voting.
rockaction
Footballguy
And actually, in the primary thread, my fight was about people using laughing emojis about Trump. “It’s not funny,” I protested, and got in a fight explaining why it was a disaster for Republicans to nominate him. I was unamused.
bostonfred
Footballguy
This forum means more to you than it does to me so I'll just leave it at this. My experience coming by every few weeks or so is that you've walked like a duck and talked like a duck but you've got receipts showing that you were actually just a goose that was hanging out with the ducks and blaming the Democrats for throwing bread.
It seems like the distinction of your support of republican policymakers while disliking the guy they were supporting is important to you, but lumping democrats together for collectively demonizing every republican for years is thread worthy. I see it differently. There's no point bumping up quotes, enjoy your Saturday night.
It seems like the distinction of your support of republican policymakers while disliking the guy they were supporting is important to you, but lumping democrats together for collectively demonizing every republican for years is thread worthy. I see it differently. There's no point bumping up quotes, enjoy your Saturday night.
HellToupee
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Or you could just say, given the quotes now pulled and even threads started to distinguish myself from Republicans (I’ve never registered Republican and often supported libertarians) that you were wrong about my position, but that probably means much more to you than me, so I’ll also leave it at that. Enjoy your Saturday, too.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is almost a first for this board. It’s in writing, consistent, time-stamped and dated, yet somehow I’m supposedly more guilty for Trump’s ascendancy than a Democrat who screeches “fascist” at everybody whose policies don’t align with his.
This is sort of new territory whereby your writings and communications don’t matter, but rather, who you presumably would have supported suffices.
Sort of galling in its hubris, actually.
This is sort of new territory whereby your writings and communications don’t matter, but rather, who you presumably would have supported suffices.
Sort of galling in its hubris, actually.
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quick-hands
Footballguy
you know what would have helped your opinion? the judicial filibuster. who got rid of that. I'm not clear on that.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Huh? I made a factual statement. If you view that as cheerleading, it says more about you than it does about me
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GordonGekko
Footballguy
"I thought it was funny that the liberals proved her point...It's disappointing to see the left become how the right used to be when they went after the Dixie Chicks after they criticized George W. Bush. There’s not a lot of people like that — most are just trying not to get in trouble — but there’s this small collection of lunatics either on the right or the left, at any given moment. that cause hysteria. And now there’s so many [media outlets] that want eyeballs, they make money off advertising, that they give attention to these crazy fringe people....And I love the whole idea that somebody can go back eight years in somebody’s Twitter feed and be like, 'What about this?'....Meanwhile, there are people who get paroled from prison every day who have done so much worse and they’re allowed to put their lives back together. You can have 20-year wars, you can create synthetic heroin, you can f***ing poison the food supply. You can do all of that s*** and it’s barely going to read … I could tell you five different topics that if I did jokes about, I would get more in trouble than the people who caused that.....You can’t take one incident or one quote and say, 'That’s who you are,'....It took me 50 years to figure out who I am, and I’ve been with me for 50 f***ing years. How are you going to figure out who I am in a joke?"
- Bill Burr on Gina Carano's firing from The Mandalorian
*******
Vote with your wallet.
This is the most effective political dissent someone can make.
Barring that, the only power you have in this life is to choose to walk away from anything and anyone.
What does recorded human history teach all of us? People who keep doing stupid things sentence their children to death. It could be physical death or emotional death or mental death or total loss of all hope, it could be any of those.
The people you say keep screaming "fascist" have helped to build a society where it's much easier for America's children to die. Does anyone feel their kids are safer in the last couple of decades watching this total clown show of modern professional politics?
You pick retribution or you can pick validation, but you typically can't get both at the same time. The people here who are the most radical aren't going to admit they are wrong to you. They've stolen the dignity of their own children. That's enough punishment for a thousand lifetimes to come.
If you are unhappy here, cancel your FBG subscription. If you are unhappy out there, then figure out who you disagree with and never spend another dollar on anything they sell or create or build ever again.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
The Democratic Party is not a monolith. I refuse to treat them as such. The radical leftists here though clearly want to package all Conservatives and Republicans together.
I'll lay it out plain - Team Blue's establishment core and the radical left declared open war on the working class and against their children. This is why they are losing so badly and will lose horrifically.
Of course, there should be accountability into making Trump a legitimate 2024 contender by pure attrition. Lots of Americans are scared right now. Many don't feel their streets are safe, they are getting hit with record inflation, they are beaten down by the current Energy Policy and there's the looming threat of possible nuclear war or another World War.
How do you self destruct so badly as a political Party where your non stop failures and self inflicted chaos makes some 4th rate grifter like Donald Trump look like hope?
This isn't rocket science - Stop shouting Orange/Man/Bad and focus on making the lives of every day working class people and their children materially better. Then they'll want to come out and vote for you.
A lot of people didn't vote for Joe Biden in 2020, they voted against Donald Trump
A lot of people didn't vote for Trump in 2016, they voted against the wearisome tone deaf establishment cutouts that clung to "norms" that only really meant spitting in the working class person's face.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
The real irony is that there were two events in 2008 and 2012 from where you can draw a direct line to Trump, and neither involved Democrats. The first was McCain selecting Palin. The second was Romney actively courting Trump's endorsement. In both cases, candidates desperate to shore up their right flank helped bring fringe elements into the party's mainstream. It's interesting that both men, while never directly acknowledging their mistakes, did end up coming out pretty strongly against Trump, which on the one hand is admirable, but on the other serves to highlight the rank cynicism of their initial actions.
zoonation
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Absolutely not. I left the right a few years ago and blame the base for the politicians, not even the other way around. All I'm saying is that the left and even mainstream Democrats have been hurling invective at the other party no matter what for years on end. Enabled by the capture of academia, the media, and entertainment by the progressive left, this invective has been hurled in every way, shape, and form. This almost guaranteed that Republicans would see an opportunity to grab the levers of power and roll with it, regardless of its own anti-democratic form.
The way I see it is that Republicans and their voters have finally had the reaction to being assaulted by the three pillars of American informational society. Academia passes down intellectual knowledge and history, the media is in charge of current events and dissemination of accurate news, and entertainment is there to provide context with those things as a background. The clay to make art out of, if one will. Have all three get captured by an ideology, be it right or left-wing, and you'll likely provoke a dissenting, combative reaction from the other side. Heck, post-9/11, when everybody was doing their part to be a patriot, the left dissented and cried "fascism" at every corner.
So we know what it looks like on that side. It's ANSWER protests where police horses get punched in the mouth by angry mobs (yes, this happened at a rally my friend went to in NYC). The question is now how do we get the Republican base back to a moderate and integrated whole once again. How do we bring them back to accepted mainstream things like mainstream history, mainstream news outlets that aren't crazy, and mainstream entertainment (assuming mainstream entertainment complies with a few simple freaking things) that generally embody and celebrate the diversity but unity of the American way.?
Is the left even up for that? That's something I wonder. Whether the right is up for it is something I pray for. I hope that the relentless assault over the past sixty years won't prevent them from agreeing to come back to the democratic bargaining table.
But there is no absolving anybody of blame. The Republican base pretty much bears the blame for its self-selected representation. But the left didn't help by calling previous iterations of power supported by these same people "fascists" and unfit for polite company or any company for that matter.
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moleculo
Footballguy
As someone who had listened to talk radio for the past couple of decades, I object to the claim that it's a leftist problem.
It would be just as accurate for me to claim that the right has been demonizing the left (and center, for that matter) for so long that they had to find their own champion - the polar opposite, yet just as powerful - opponent to the strawman they hoisted.
Rush Limbaugh spent 30 years telling us that democrats are socialists and will turn the US into Venezuela. Is there any doubt why his followers felt like drastic steps needed to be taken?
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Ironic that you make broad sweeping statements about "the left", call the entire movement unpatriotic, and repeatedly equate criticism to physical assault, and your point is that other people need to cool it with their rhetoric? I do agree with one thing you've said: this thread is an exercise in projection.
I'm still waiting for an explanation of a) what made the rhetoric from the left in recent years so uniquely bad relative to other political eras beyond the fact that it seems to have hurt your widdle feewings, and b) why, in this one specific case, it provoked such an atypical reaction. There have been Trump-like figures in our politics before (McCarthy, Huey Long) but 2016 represented the first time one of them captured a major political party. Why is that? That's the central question for understanding our current political moment, and "because the left was really really mean" is not an answer that deserves to be taken seriously
I'm still waiting for an explanation of a) what made the rhetoric from the left in recent years so uniquely bad relative to other political eras beyond the fact that it seems to have hurt your widdle feewings, and b) why, in this one specific case, it provoked such an atypical reaction. There have been Trump-like figures in our politics before (McCarthy, Huey Long) but 2016 represented the first time one of them captured a major political party. Why is that? That's the central question for understanding our current political moment, and "because the left was really really mean" is not an answer that deserves to be taken seriously
foxco
Footballguy
Awesome!
I tend to believe everyone is at fault for the current mess, left, right, the middle. No one gets to just point the finger at the other side without taking some of the blame IMO.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Maybe, but we need to get away from this pointless political shadowboxing. When someone makes a categorical statement -- say, "The rhetoric on the left led to Trump" -- it's worth interrogating every part of the charge. Which specific rhetoric? Who on the left? How exactly did it lead to Trump? Otherwise it's nearly impossible to respond.
I, like everyone else, am responsible for the rhetoric that comes out of my mouth, the candidates I vote for, and the positions I publicly support. I'm certainly not responsible for something a bunch of idiot leftist protesters (who probably hate my politics as much as they hate the right's) did back in 2003 at an event I didn't attend. Nor am I responsible for determining what role that played in Trump getting the GOP nomination 13 years later.
If you're not talking about specific actions and direct consequences, you're wasting everyone's time
BladeRunner
Footballguy
As usual, I notice you left out the details.
There's a difference between a bunch of Nazis protesting OUTSIDE the event (there was) and ELECTING actual Nazis to Congress as part of their Party (they haven't).
Unlike the Democrat Party, who has elected ACTUAL SOCIALISTS to Congress. Real, live Socialists. And they grow in number every year. The Democrat Party is going to be due for a name change in about 10 years or so.
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Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Ever see Eminem's video Stan? The part where he says that part makes him not wanna meet each other. Where Stan can basically go #### off if not for the obligatory relationship Em owes Stan as a fan?
There's that condescending as #### part that makes me think you could drop off the face of the earth and I wouldn't miss you one bit. In fact, I know it. Right here.
Exhibit A.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Who said that? I sure didn't. That's not an arrow in my quiver, ever.
Try reading. As you would say, it's fundamental.
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