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They Chicken Little'd Themselves So Badly That We're Stuck With This Monstrosity of a Man (1 Viewer)

If the leftist rhetoric led to Trump, it is because the rhetoric hurt the feelings of a broad swath of voters.  It wasn't people calling Bush a NAZI or whatever, it was extending that rheteric to voters - i.e. if you vote for Bush you are a NAZI, or if you vote for McCain you were a racist.  I think that's what the difference is. 

 
rockaction said:
Ever see Eminem's video Stan? The part where he says that part makes him not wanna meet each other. Where Stan can basically go #### off if not for the obligatory relationship Em owes Stan as a fan? 

There's that condescending as #### part that makes me think you could drop off the face of the earth and I wouldn't miss you one bit. In fact, I know it. Right here. 

Exhibit A.
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Jesus dude.

 
joffer said:
Actual Nazis at the TPUSA event yesterday where Cruz, Hawley, DeSantis, et al spoke.  I’m sure they denounced them in their speeches.
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Viktor Orban, the right-wing, white Christian supremacist who's killing democracy in Hungary, is a headline speaker at CPAC.  And CPAC isn't some fringe professor or law school student group at Yale either.  It's literally a who's who of the Republican Party.

The only problem they have with Trump is he was too impatient and kept saying the quite parts out loud.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Viktor Orban, the right-wing white Christian supremacist who's killing democracy in Hungary, is a headline speaker at CPAC.  And CPAC isn't some fringe professor or law school student group at Yale either.  It's literally a who's who of the Republican Party.

They aren't even trying to hide it anymore:  their intention is to kill democracy in all but name and install permanent white Christian rule by undermining free elections and a free judiciary.

The only problem they have with Trump is he was too impatient and kept saying the quite parts out loud.
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Look at this guy talking about killing Democracy as his Party elects ACTUAL SOCIALISTS to Congress and whose party supported and encouraged BLM/Antifa to run roughshod and set ablaze American cities, encourages DA's to go easy on criminals and supports and encourages illegal immigrants to cross the border in violation of the very laws they create - and give them all of our benefits to boot.

Your fake outrage doesn't match reality.

 
rockaction said:
Ever see Eminem's video Stan? The part where he says that part makes him not wanna meet each other. Where Stan can basically go #### off if not for the obligatory relationship Em owes Stan as a fan? 

There's that condescending as #### part that makes me think you could drop off the face of the earth and I wouldn't miss you one bit. In fact, I know it. Right here. 

Exhibit A.
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My God, do you have even an ounce of self-awareness? (Judging by this thread, obviously not.)

The first time you responded to one of my posts with unprovoked insults, I was conciliatory and told you I didn't have anything against you, which was true at the time. But when you kept doing it, what else am I supposed to conclude other than that you're a jerk?

To be clear, this is a dumb thread, and it would still be a dumb thread even if you were the nicest person on earth. But in that case, I would at least try to be more polite in telling you how dumb it was. (There actually is a poster here who I disagree with on a bunch of things and who has started some really dumb threads, but I can tell him that without us getting into an argument, both because he's a good dude and because he's usually already come to the same conclusion about his thread.)

If you refuse to treat others with respect, don't turn around and whine about not receiving it in return.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
My God, do you have even an ounce of self-awareness? (Judging by this thread, obviously not.)

The first time you responded to one of my posts with unprovoked insults, I was conciliatory and told you I didn't have anything against you, which was true at the time. But when you kept doing it, what else am I supposed to conclude other than that you're a jerk?

To be clear, this is a dumb thread, and it would still be a dumb thread even if you were the nicest person on earth. But in that case, I would at least try to be more polite in telling you how dumb it was. (There actually is a poster here who I disagree with on a bunch of things and who has started some really dumb threads, but I can tell him that without us getting into an argument, both because he's a good dude and because he's usually already come to the same conclusion about his thread.)

If you refuse to treat others with respect, don't turn around and whine about not receiving it in return.
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I didn't whine about not receiving respect at all. I just said you're like Stan to Me. You can follow me around and castigate me, but you'll always be my #1 fan, just sort of with the pretensions that Stan never had. 

 
Look, I'm really flattered you would call your daughter that
And here's an autograph for your brother
I wrote it on a Starter cap

 
Leaving aside the delusions of grandeur that would allow you to think of yourself as Eminem, I would remind you that you were the one who picked a fight with me. You're the Stan in this analogy.

But of course you're not even that. You're just a jerk on a fantasy football message board. Get over yourself.

 
BladeRunner said:
Look at this guy talking about killing Democracy as his Party elects ACTUAL SOCIALISTS to Congress and whose party supported and encouraged BLM/Antifa to run roughshod and set ablaze American cities, encourages DA's to go easy on criminals and supports and encourages illegal immigrants to cross the border in violation of the very laws they create - and give them all of our benefits to boot.

Your fake outrage doesn't match reality.
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Actually, as has been shown to you many times...they elect Democratic Socialists and the difference between that and how you try to portray them as it isn't about killing Democracy at all.  And no...the party did not support anyone running roughshod or setting ablaze American cities.  That is a bogus narrative you are pushing.  

So...yeah, you talk about not matching reality...but then post a bunch of things that just are contrary to what is actually happening.  All to play "what aboutism" rather than admit what the guy said about that speaker was true.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
The real irony is that there were two events in 2008 and 2012 from where you can draw a direct line to Trump, and neither involved Democrats. The first was McCain selecting Palin. The second was Romney actively courting Trump's endorsement. In both cases, candidates desperate to shore up their right flank helped bring fringe elements into the party's mainstream. It's interesting that both men, while never directly acknowledging their mistakes, did end up coming out pretty strongly against Trump, which on the one hand is admirable, but on the other serves to highlight the rank cynicism of their initial actions.
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McCain had Palin shoved on him. She wasn't his pick, the party threaten to floor vote the nomination away from him if he didn't go with her.

His pick was equally unorthodox though, he wanted to go with Lieberman as his VP.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
The one that's always puzzled me is the notion that he's "strong". He is the classic bully, oozing insecurity from every pore. And as we saw in the infamous Helsinki summit with Putin, when faced with an actual bully he shrunk to the size of a pea. He only knows how to punch down

The single best description I've ever heard of Trump is that he's a poor man's idea of a rich man, a dumb man's idea of a smart man, and a weak man's idea of a strong man. 
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Yup. 

 
(HULK) said:
McCain had Palin shoved on him. She wasn't his pick, the party threaten to floor vote the nomination away from him if he didn't go with her.

His pick was equally unorthodox though, he wanted to go with Lieberman as his VP.
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You're right, I had forgotten about that. The Lieberman pick would never have worked -- aside from the aforementioned floor fight, I think everyone was kind of sick of Joe by that point, and besides, McCain was losing that election no matter who he picked. But I do credit the instinct he had to pursue it, and it would have sent a reassuring message about American democracy, in stark contrast to what the Palin pick revealed.

In the end, though, whatever pressures he was facing, it was McCain's decision, and he's responsible for it. I always had a great deal of respect for him as both a person and politician, but that's a definite black mark on his legacy

 
Uruk-Hai said:
This thread makes me sad. There are folks posting here who I like a lot and have had fun with over the last 20+ years.

But some of y'all have lost your damned minds. Step back for a minute or two. I'm seriously worried about the mental health of so many people nowadays who can't stop wallowing in this ####.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/
 

Best article I’ve read in a long time. It’s quite long, but it does a good job of explaining why both sides are so delusional.

 
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moleculo said:
As someone who had listened to talk radio for the past couple of decades, I object to the claim that it's a leftist problem.
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"...All I'm saying is that the left and even mainstream Democrats have been hurling invective at the other party no matter what for years on end. Enabled by the capture of academia, the media, and entertainment by the progressive left, this invective has been hurled in every way, shape, and form.....

....The way I see it is that Republicans and their voters have finally had the reaction to being assaulted by the three pillars of American informational society. Academia passes down intellectual knowledge and history, the media is in charge of current events and dissemination of accurate news, and entertainment is there to provide context with those things as a background. The clay to make art out of, if one will. Have all three get captured by an ideology, be it right or left-wing, and you'll likely provoke a dissenting, combative reaction from the other side.....

...But there is no absolving anybody of blame. The Republican base pretty much bears the blame for its self-selected representation. But the left didn't help by calling previous iterations of power supported by these same people "fascists" and unfit for polite company or any company for that matter...."

******

I don't see a problem with what Rock is saying for this specific point.

Team Blue controls Big Education. No one disputes this.

Team Blue controls the majority of the activist  complicit MSM. No one disputes this.

Team Blue controls the nearly all of Hollywood and the near majority of all power bases in the entertainment world. No one disputes this.

You can't have this much power and not be accountable when you use that power to keep smearing Conservatives and Republicans non stop, even to the point of just fabricating it.

Do Conservatives and Republicans have some advantages in talk radio? Yes. But that's such a small sliver of the overall range of voter engagement/media engagement used out there.

A lot of radical leftists here don't like me. They don't like my posts. They don't like what I have to say. Many want me permanently banned. Many attack me non stop and have done so for close to 2 years now. The way and manner under which I am attacked make my positions look more and more reasonable to Independents, Moderates, Undecideds and Late Stage Voters. The kind of people who swing elections. If you replicate that outside of the PSF and into all of America, you see the larger problem at work.

What do Elon Musk and Joe Rogan really have in common? There are actually pretty different. But the leftist "cancel culture" came to try to hunt down both of them anyway. Along with Dave Chappelle and Gina Carano and many others. The constant radical leftist attacks galvanize a coalition of opposition. They may or may not agree with Republicans and the GOP, but they know for sure they don't want what the current modern "left" has to offer them.

So, no, this is not a "both sides" kind of thing.

One side has a lot of power in specific areas of our society ( MSM, Hollywood, Big Education) and have used them in a way that pisses off and turns off and drives away every day working class people. You can't win elections if you piss these people off. There are too many of them.

Where I disagree with Rock is the idea that Conservatives and Republicans are blindly voting for a despot and tyrant. Trump represents a specific grievance against the establishment. He was at the right place and right time. Trump is less important as himself and was more valuable as he spoke to what was never spoken before but how a lot of working class Americans felt about where their country was headed.

I agree with Rock that Trump on a bender with a full 2nd term as POTUS offers some ugly potential. I disagree that it will result in fascism. The Republic is bigger than just one man.

 
shader said:
Not reading the article, sending a link to someone on the far right saying something dumb.  Congrats for making the point
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I wish Tommy was as zealous with lefties saying something dumb as he is righties.  It would probably open his eyes and he'd get off his "Democrats Have Never Done Anything Wrong" shtick.

 
I just want to apologize for before to @ignatiusjreilly and others. I wasn't trying to be mean or caustic here, but I was. That's on me and I'll strive to do better in the future. I was sort of laughing to myself when I was thinking about Stan, but in retrospect and upon reading it again, that's not how I want to present myself. Others who have chimed in that I trust are wondering what's up, so I must have done something fairly wrong here. 

Sorry again. 

 
rockaction said:
I just want to apologize for before to @ignatiusjreilly and others. I wasn't trying to be mean or caustic here, but I was. That's on me and I'll strive to do better in the future. I was sort of laughing to myself when I was thinking about Stan, but in retrospect and upon reading it again, that's not how I want to present myself. Others who have chimed in that I trust are wondering what's up, so I must have done something fairly wrong here. 

Sorry again. 
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I appreciate you saying that, and apology accepted. And if I'm being honest, there were a few things I said that were intended more to get under your skin than to advance an argument (most notably, "widdle feewings".)

I'll revert back to what I said earlier: The only issue I ever had with you was the tone with which you responded to me. Ultimately, it's the difference between disagreeing and being disagreeable. I don't care if you tell me I'm wrong -- hell, I have someone in my life who has been telling me that pretty much every day for the past 15 years, and I haven't divorced her yet  :lmao:

It's when you go from "you're wrong" to "you're wrong because you're stupid", or "You're wrong because you don't actually believe what you're saying" that dialogue becomes impossible. Sometimes what we all need to do is extend people a little grace and put the best possible interpretation on their arguments rather than assuming the worst. I try to do that as much as possible (and often fail).

So if I were to apply that to your original post in this thread, what I would guess is that, as someone on the right, you've felt like you've been on the receiving end of a lot of condescension and false accusations from the left, all of which has made you less open to whatever they have to say. And if you feel that way, maybe a bunch of Trump voters do, too. Is that accurate?

There is still plenty there that I might disagree with, but I can at least understand where a view like that is coming from.

Anyway, I'm glad we were able to bury the hatchet, and as far as I'm concerned we're cool, but don't think that means if you insult me again, I won't (verbally) cut a ######  :P

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I appreciate you saying that, and apology accepted. And if I'm being honest, there were a few things I said that were intended more to get under your skin than to advance an argument (most notably, "widdle feewings".)

I'll revert back to what I said earlier: The only issue I ever had with you was the tone with which you responded to me. Ultimately, it's the difference between disagreeing and being disagreeable. I don't care if you tell me I'm wrong -- hell, I have someone in my life who has been telling me that pretty much every day for the past 15 years, and I haven't divorced her yet  :lmao:

It's when you go from "you're wrong" to "you're wrong because you're stupid", or "You're wrong because you don't actually believe what you're saying" that dialogue becomes impossible. Sometimes what we all need to do is extend people a little grace and put the best possible interpretation on their arguments rather than assuming the worst. I try to do that as much as possible (and often fail).

So if I were to apply that to your original post in this thread, what I would guess is that, as someone on the right, you've felt like you've been on the receiving end of a lot of condescension and false accusations from the left, all of which has made you less open to whatever they have to say. And if you feel that way, maybe a bunch of Trump voters do, too. Is that accurate?

There is still plenty there that I might disagree with, but I can at least understand where a view like that is coming from.

Anyway, I'm glad we were able to bury the hatchet, and as far as I'm concerned we're cool, but don't think that means if you insult me again, I won't (verbally) cut a ######  :P
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DANCE COMBAT!!!!!

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
You're right, I had forgotten about that. The Lieberman pick would never have worked -- aside from the aforementioned floor fight, I think everyone was kind of sick of Joe by that point, and besides, McCain was losing that election no matter who he picked. But I do credit the instinct he had to pursue it, and it would have sent a reassuring message about American democracy, in stark contrast to what the Palin pick revealed.

In the end, though, whatever pressures he was facing, it was McCain's decision, and he's responsible for it. I always had a great deal of respect for him as both a person and politician, but that's a definite black mark on his legacy
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I was actually thinking about this for next election. Say what they want Joey B is TOO OLD to run again. VP Harris probably isn't popular enough to do it.

What if whoever the Dems pick, they go with say a Larry Hogan as VP. That's the kinda spiciness that might be very interesting, ESPECIALLY if the Republicans go with Trump or a Trumpist.

 
Maybe a Pete B and Larry Hogan ticket. Against say, Trump and Kristi Noem. I think that would result in our first gay president, and I don't even think it would be a close vote.

 
(HULK) said:
Maybe a Pete B and Larry Hogan ticket. Against say, Trump and Kristi Noem. I think that would result in our first gay president, and I don't even think it would be a close vote.
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 I like the sounds of that duo but, IMO, not sure Pete B is ready nor the country for a gay POTUS.  Maybe I'm wrong --

 
rockaction said:
This would be a stunning observation if I had ever supported him. In fact, I think there's an easy search to do. Go to the search function and bring up "Resident Right-Winger, Does Not Support, Donald Trump" and you've likely got a thread that none other than yours truly started in 2016 or 2017. I never supported Trump, and can point to personal emails that I sent to people around his election saying I would have voted for Hillary if I lived in a swing state. 

In fact, I'm so politically astute that I said it was partially because of his response to questions about NATO, which I found severely lacking in substance and in spirit. It was awful. 

So try another tree to bark up. 
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If you question anything the Ds do, you’re a Trump supporter. Happens over and over in here.

Its lazy and dumb 

 
FairWarning said:
How about we focus on a competent president instead on checking more boxes?  
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I wasn't suggesting Pete because he's gay. Honestly, not that I disapprove of it, I'd consider it a negative in a presidential campaign because a certain % of voters would just automatically vote his opponent.

 
(HULK) said:
I was actually thinking about this for next election. Say what they want Joey B is TOO OLD to run again. VP Harris probably isn't popular enough to do it.

What if whoever the Dems pick, they go with say a Larry Hogan as VP. That's the kinda spiciness that might be very interesting, ESPECIALLY if the Republicans go with Trump or a Trumpist.
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I saw George Stephanopoulos one time talking about how Supreme Court nominations are decided inside the White House. He said every first meeting starts with someone throwing out a non-conventional choice like an elected politician or non-lawyer, and then eventually everyone comes to the conclusion that they should play it safe and just select a Federal judge who went to an Ivy League school.

I feel like these out-of-the-box VP choices operate the same way. It always sounds attractive, but it raises a host of other problems. Also, because it's so risky, it's generally viewed (correctly) as a desperation move. I doubt we see anything like that happen in our lifetimes.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Viktor Orban, the right-wing, white Christian supremacist who's killing democracy in Hungary, is a headline speaker at CPAC.  And CPAC isn't some fringe professor or law school student group at Yale either.  It's literally a who's who of the Republican Party.

The only problem they have with Trump is he was too impatient and kept saying the quite parts out loud.
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from his speech over the weekend:

In such a multi-ethnic context, there is an ideological feint here that is worth talking about and focusing on. The internationalist left employs a feint, an ideological ruse: the claim – their claim – that Europe by its very nature is populated by peoples of mixed race. This is a historical and semantic sleight of hand, because it conflates two different things. There is a world in which European peoples are mixed together with those arriving from outside Europe. Now that is a mixed-race world. And there is our world, where people from within Europe mix with one another, move around, work, and relocate. So, for example, in the Carpathian Basin we are not mixed-race: we are simply a mixture of peoples living in our own European homeland. And, given a favourable alignment of stars and a following wind, these peoples merge together in a kind of Hungaro-Pannonian sauce, creating their own new European culture. This is why we have always fought: we are willing to mix with one another, but we do not want to become peoples of mixed-race.

 
urbanhack said:
from his speech over the weekend:

In such a multi-ethnic context, there is an ideological feint here that is worth talking about and focusing on. The internationalist left employs a feint, an ideological ruse: the claim – their claim – that Europe by its very nature is populated by peoples of mixed race. This is a historical and semantic sleight of hand, because it conflates two different things. There is a world in which European peoples are mixed together with those arriving from outside Europe. Now that is a mixed-race world. And there is our world, where people from within Europe mix with one another, move around, work, and relocate. So, for example, in the Carpathian Basin we are not mixed-race: we are simply a mixture of peoples living in our own European homeland. And, given a favourable alignment of stars and a following wind, these peoples merge together in a kind of Hungaro-Pannonian sauce, creating their own new European culture. This is why we have always fought: we are willing to mix with one another, but we do not want to become peoples of mixed-race.
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The most ironic part of this speech is that the Hungarians are Magyars, who originally came to Europe from Asia, and managed to survive as an ethnically distinct people through extensive intermixing with various European groups

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I saw George Stephanopoulos one time talking about how Supreme Court nominations are decided inside the White House. He said every first meeting starts with someone throwing out a non-conventional choice like an elected politician or non-lawyer, and then eventually everyone comes to the conclusion that they should play it safe and just select a Federal judge who went to an Ivy League school.

I feel like these out-of-the-box VP choices operate the same way. It always sounds attractive, but it raises a host of other problems. Also, because it's so risky, it's generally viewed (correctly) as a desperation move. I doubt we see anything like that happen in our lifetimes.
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Oh, I fully acknowledge this is just like independent-guy porn that I personally get off to and fully realize we'll not get choices like this as the 2 party race to the fringe continues to pull our country further and further apart. A guy can hope though.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
May I ask what Pete has done in his career that leads you to believe he’d be a good POTUS?
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Being under 70 with his full mental capacity and not be a raging narcissist.  With those to qualities alone he’s light years better then our last 2 guys.  

 
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