Things that cloud SP Owners' judgement when posting (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

1. Owning the player in any dyansty league. Has an owner ever posted that they were wrong when they made a pick or that the players that fill their rosters are not full of talent and going to rule the world?

2. They read too much beat reporter jargon in the home town they live in. These guys get paid to write, period. Most want to make sure they can enter the locker room after a game and get some sound bites so they typically are far from objective. In 2007 when Miami was on its way to 1-15, I was set to go on Hank Goldberg's show 560 WQAM to talk about football with a fantasy slant. Miami was 0-8 at the time and I was told I could not bad mouth Cam Cameron or the Phins really for that matter. I asked why and Hank said they were the flagship station for the Phins and they were basically on the payroll for Miami, also that most of their listeners were old time Miami fans and it would turn listeners off. I went on and blasted Cam Cameron, calling for his head and had my mic cut within 60 seconds. I haven't been asked back since but 560 is on about their 4th or 5th drive home host in the 3 years I've been back in Miami.

3. Hometown fans of the player you are posting back and forth about.

What you got?

 

[-jb-]

weed?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

weed?

That too

 

[Steed]

Guys being named the starter in June and people assuming that's how it'll be from here till eternity. Selvin Young anyone?

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Guys being named the starter in June and people assuming that's how it'll be from here till eternity. Selvin Young anyone?

2010: See Arian Foster.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Guys being named the starter in June and people assuming that's how it'll be from here till eternity. Selvin Young anyone?

2010: See Arian Foster.

He gets drafted in the middle teen rounds, mostly guys taking a flyer, what's the downside? Houston situation is probably going to be fluid and on into the season if you ask me.

 

[mikel2014]

Preconceived notions. Once someone has a mindset of Player X will be the next stud, it normally takes a lot to change that opinion. It's part stubbornness, part the determination to be right. See: Reggie Bush, Darren McFadden, Matt Leinart.

 

[PhantomJB]

Being burned by owning a guy in the past (primarily redraft)

Over-reliance on stats

Over-reliance on so-called eye test

Recency effects (e.g. performance in previous year's playoffs)

 

[dwyadog]

Having met the player in person. Sometimes NFL guys come out with the USO. Ive seen mancrushes before but the guys I know who have shook fitz's hand while deployed for example, well larry could die tomorrow and theyd still draft him for the next ten years.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Preconceived notions. Once someone has a mindset of Player X will be the next stud, it normally takes a lot to change that opinion. It's part stubbornness, part the determination to be right. See: Reggie Bush, Darren McFadden, Matt Leinart.

We're all guilty of this, myself included.

 

[JohnnyU]

Too quick to label a player injury prone. Sometimes it's just bad luck.

 

[Mister CIA]

The topic title makes me dizzy.

 

[gianmarco]

1. Owning the player in any dyansty league. Has an owner ever posted that they were wrong when they made a pick or that the players that fill their rosters are not full of talent and going to rule the world?

And my rebuttal to this nonsense is dismissing someone's opinion simply because they own that player on their team.Which do you think happens more frequently?1) An owner drafts/trades for a player and THEN thinks he's a good player and has talentor2) An owner thinks a player has talent and THEN drafts/trades for him?It's completely absurd to think an owner is "biased" about a player just because he owns him. The fact that he owns him is simply the result of the owner liking him. Now, are there owners that can't admit the fault of that decision and continue to argue for a player years after the fact? Yeah, I guess, but those owners are few and far between. Most owners don't keep a player on their roster year after year if they aren't performing well. In fact, most of those owners drop the player and then become instant arguers against them. How many ex-owners of guys have we seen saying "I don't want to deal with this headache" or "I'll let someone else deal with so and so"? All the time. I'd be much more wary of an owner arguing vehemently for a player and NOT owning him on one of their teams. They are either full of it or aren't good enough owners to trust their own opinions and go after the players they want. So sorry, I completely disagree with #1 as something that clouds an SP owner's judgment.

 

[No Way Jose]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

Wrong...

 

[SSOG]

1. Owning the player in any dyansty league. Has an owner ever posted that they were wrong when they made a pick or that the players that fill their rosters are not full of talent and going to rule the world?

And my rebuttal to this nonsense is dismissing someone's opinion simply because they own that player on their team.Which do you think happens more frequently?1) An owner drafts/trades for a player and THEN thinks he's a good player and has talentor2) An owner thinks a player has talent and THEN drafts/trades for him?It's completely absurd to think an owner is "biased" about a player just because he owns him. The fact that he owns him is simply the result of the owner liking him. Now, are there owners that can't admit the fault of that decision and continue to argue for a player years after the fact? Yeah, I guess, but those owners are few and far between. Most owners don't keep a player on their roster year after year if they aren't performing well. In fact, most of those owners drop the player and then become instant arguers against them. How many ex-owners of guys have we seen saying "I don't want to deal with this headache" or "I'll let someone else deal with so and so"? All the time. I'd be much more wary of an owner arguing vehemently for a player and NOT owning him on one of their teams. They are either full of it or aren't good enough owners to trust their own opinions and go after the players they want. So sorry, I completely disagree with #1 as something that clouds an SP owner's judgment.

You beat me to it. I was going to post the exact same thing.For instance, I think Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR in the league. Is that because I own him? Of course not- at one point in time I did not own him, but thought highly enough of him to trade two studs and a rookie 1st rounder to acquire him. So basically what point #1 is saying is that if I don't own Fitzgerald, I can say he's great... but the instant I actually put my money where my mouth is, my opinion doesn't matter?If anything, I'm far, far, far more wary of people who are sky-high on a player if they DON'T own him in dynasty. For instance, the guys projecting 1300 yards and 15 scores from Jermichael Finley? If they don't own him, they're basically saying that even they don't believe what they're selling because they aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is and get him.

 

[DropKick]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

Wrong...

And on so many levels...

 

[TWP]

1. Owning the player in any dyansty league. Has an owner ever posted that they were wrong when they made a pick or that the players that fill their rosters are not full of talent and going to rule the world?

And my rebuttal to this nonsense is dismissing someone's opinion simply because they own that player on their team.Which do you think happens more frequently?1) An owner drafts/trades for a player and THEN thinks he's a good player and has talentor2) An owner thinks a player has talent and THEN drafts/trades for him?It's completely absurd to think an owner is "biased" about a player just because he owns him. The fact that he owns him is simply the result of the owner liking him. Now, are there owners that can't admit the fault of that decision and continue to argue for a player years after the fact? Yeah, I guess, but those owners are few and far between. Most owners don't keep a player on their roster year after year if they aren't performing well. In fact, most of those owners drop the player and then become instant arguers against them. How many ex-owners of guys have we seen saying "I don't want to deal with this headache" or "I'll let someone else deal with so and so"? All the time. I'd be much more wary of an owner arguing vehemently for a player and NOT owning him on one of their teams. They are either full of it or aren't good enough owners to trust their own opinions and go after the players they want. So sorry, I completely disagree with #1 as something that clouds an SP owner's judgment.

You beat me to it. I was going to post the exact same thing.For instance, I think Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR in the league. Is that because I own him? Of course not- at one point in time I did not own him, but thought highly enough of him to trade two studs and a rookie 1st rounder to acquire him. So basically what point #1 is saying is that if I don't own Fitzgerald, I can say he's great... but the instant I actually put my money where my mouth is, my opinion doesn't matter?If anything, I'm far, far, far more wary of people who are sky-high on a player if they DON'T own him in dynasty. For instance, the guys projecting 1300 yards and 15 scores from Jermichael Finley? If they don't own him, they're basically saying that even they don't believe what they're selling because they aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is and get him.

I think you guys are right, but I also think the original point is often correct. If we're talking about this year's re-draft, of course I will believe the guy who's willing to put his money where his mouth is on projections, etc. Example: staffers saying they are high on SJax in a recent thread and then backing it up by stating they drafted him #6 recently.However, you definitely have people in dynasty who invest a lot in a player either in the draft or in a trade and then refuse to admit that circumstances have changed or maybe they overestimated the talent or the opporunity. Example: Slaton. If someone gave up a ton for him last year, they are obviously going to be hard pressed to admit that he can't perform this year or ever again. You also see recent examples of this in the recent Foster thread on this board.

 

[DropKick]

The hometown fan thing is the biggest drag on the board. Yes, we know your a fan of <fill in the blank> and hate <fill in the blank>. We got it. Stick to the fantasy topics. We already know <your team> stinks.

 

[gianmarco]

1. Owning the player in any dyansty league. Has an owner ever posted that they were wrong when they made a pick or that the players that fill their rosters are not full of talent and going to rule the world?

And my rebuttal to this nonsense is dismissing someone's opinion simply because they own that player on their team.Which do you think happens more frequently?1) An owner drafts/trades for a player and THEN thinks he's a good player and has talentor2) An owner thinks a player has talent and THEN drafts/trades for him?It's completely absurd to think an owner is "biased" about a player just because he owns him. The fact that he owns him is simply the result of the owner liking him. Now, are there owners that can't admit the fault of that decision and continue to argue for a player years after the fact? Yeah, I guess, but those owners are few and far between. Most owners don't keep a player on their roster year after year if they aren't performing well. In fact, most of those owners drop the player and then become instant arguers against them. How many ex-owners of guys have we seen saying "I don't want to deal with this headache" or "I'll let someone else deal with so and so"? All the time. I'd be much more wary of an owner arguing vehemently for a player and NOT owning him on one of their teams. They are either full of it or aren't good enough owners to trust their own opinions and go after the players they want. So sorry, I completely disagree with #1 as something that clouds an SP owner's judgment.

You beat me to it. I was going to post the exact same thing.For instance, I think Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR in the league. Is that because I own him? Of course not- at one point in time I did not own him, but thought highly enough of him to trade two studs and a rookie 1st rounder to acquire him. So basically what point #1 is saying is that if I don't own Fitzgerald, I can say he's great... but the instant I actually put my money where my mouth is, my opinion doesn't matter?If anything, I'm far, far, far more wary of people who are sky-high on a player if they DON'T own him in dynasty. For instance, the guys projecting 1300 yards and 15 scores from Jermichael Finley? If they don't own him, they're basically saying that even they don't believe what they're selling because they aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is and get him.

I think you guys are right, but I also think the original point is often correct. If we're talking about this year's re-draft, of course I will believe the guy who's willing to put his money where his mouth is on projections, etc. Example: staffers saying they are high on SJax in a recent thread and then backing it up by stating they drafted him #6 recently.However, you definitely have people in dynasty who invest a lot in a player either in the draft or in a trade and then refuse to admit that circumstances have changed or maybe they overestimated the talent or the opporunity. Example: Slaton. If someone gave up a ton for him last year, they are obviously going to be hard pressed to admit that he can't perform this year or ever again. You also see recent examples of this in the recent Foster thread on this board.

There are certainly plenty of Slaton owners/ex-owners that have changed their mind on him. However, I also have no beef with an owner who believed in Slaton who is still arguing for him. They aren't clouded by the fact that they own him. They are sticking to what their original belief was on him and the book certainly isn't closed on him. The guy had a pretty serious injury that definitely could have contributed to his poor 2009 season. It still remains to be seen if he's as good as some people thought based on 2008. But I completely disagree that someone who invested in Slaton heavily last year is going to be "hard pressed to admit that he can't perform this year". I was a big Kevin Smith fan. Bought him in a bunch of leagues. I'm now stuck holding the bag in a couple of those leagues where I kept him. Why would I be "hard pressed" to admit I invested poorly in him? Even if I still believed he has some talent (which at times I do), I certainly won't be going into any threads arguing that the guy is the bomb and people are wrong about him. It's incredibly easy for me to realize I was mistaken and need to move on. And whether or not I still own him has nothing to do with that fact. Again, going by the premise that just because someone owns a player means it clouds their judgment doesn't make sense the majority of the time. I will trust an owner of a player far more often than I'll trust a non-owner who argues against someone. Oftentimes the owners of players (either in the past or currently) pay more attention to that player than not. I've never been a Moreno fan and didn't get him in any leagues. While I still don't really care for him, I'm not going to vehemently argue how bad he is to others because honestly I didn't pay that much attention to him or watch him more than the average player. I can tell you that I pay far more attention to the players I own and I've changed my mind plenty of times after doing so.

 

[Pictus Cat]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

Wrong...

And on so many levels...

Don't be afraid to say what you think. That's the beauty of fantasy football.It's all opinion. Someone may come back with some "facts" to the contrary, but it is still their opinion on hwo relative those "facts" will be predictive. You may even get new information that might alter your opinion.It's just a discussion and you still get to believe what you want.Thing of beauty.

 

[Pictus Cat]

The hometown fan thing is the biggest drag on the board. Yes, we know your a fan of <fill in the blank> and hate <fill in the blank>. We got it. Stick to the fantasy topics. We already know <your team> stinks.

The hometown thing can be double edged. Some towns roast and toast. I guess it's just a matter of a fan base's preference to be informed or hugged.

 

[radballs]

1. Owning the player in any dyansty league. Has an owner ever posted that they were wrong when they made a pick or that the players that fill their rosters are not full of talent and going to rule the world?

And my rebuttal to this nonsense is dismissing someone's opinion simply because they own that player on their team.Which do you think happens more frequently?1) An owner drafts/trades for a player and THEN thinks he's a good player and has talentor2) An owner thinks a player has talent and THEN drafts/trades for him?It's completely absurd to think an owner is "biased" about a player just because he owns him. The fact that he owns him is simply the result of the owner liking him. Now, are there owners that can't admit the fault of that decision and continue to argue for a player years after the fact? Yeah, I guess, but those owners are few and far between. Most owners don't keep a player on their roster year after year if they aren't performing well. In fact, most of those owners drop the player and then become instant arguers against them. How many ex-owners of guys have we seen saying "I don't want to deal with this headache" or "I'll let someone else deal with so and so"? All the time. I'd be much more wary of an owner arguing vehemently for a player and NOT owning him on one of their teams. They are either full of it or aren't good enough owners to trust their own opinions and go after the players they want. So sorry, I completely disagree with #1 as something that clouds an SP owner's judgment.

You beat me to it. I was going to post the exact same thing.For instance, I think Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR in the league. Is that because I own him? Of course not- at one point in time I did not own him, but thought highly enough of him to trade two studs and a rookie 1st rounder to acquire him. So basically what point #1 is saying is that if I don't own Fitzgerald, I can say he's great... but the instant I actually put my money where my mouth is, my opinion doesn't matter?If anything, I'm far, far, far more wary of people who are sky-high on a player if they DON'T own him in dynasty. For instance, the guys projecting 1300 yards and 15 scores from Jermichael Finley? If they don't own him, they're basically saying that even they don't believe what they're selling because they aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is and get him.

I think you guys are right, but I also think the original point is often correct. If we're talking about this year's re-draft, of course I will believe the guy who's willing to put his money where his mouth is on projections, etc. Example: staffers saying they are high on SJax in a recent thread and then backing it up by stating they drafted him #6 recently.However, you definitely have people in dynasty who invest a lot in a player either in the draft or in a trade and then refuse to admit that circumstances have changed or maybe they overestimated the talent or the opporunity. Example: Slaton. If someone gave up a ton for him last year, they are obviously going to be hard pressed to admit that he can't perform this year or ever again. You also see recent examples of this in the recent Foster thread on this board.

There are certainly plenty of Slaton owners/ex-owners that have changed their mind on him. However, I also have no beef with an owner who believed in Slaton who is still arguing for him. They aren't clouded by the fact that they own him. They are sticking to what their original belief was on him and the book certainly isn't closed on him. The guy had a pretty serious injury that definitely could have contributed to his poor 2009 season. It still remains to be seen if he's as good as some people thought based on 2008. But I completely disagree that someone who invested in Slaton heavily last year is going to be "hard pressed to admit that he can't perform this year". I was a big Kevin Smith fan. Bought him in a bunch of leagues. I'm now stuck holding the bag in a couple of those leagues where I kept him. Why would I be "hard pressed" to admit I invested poorly in him? Even if I still believed he has some talent (which at times I do), I certainly won't be going into any threads arguing that the guy is the bomb and people are wrong about him. It's incredibly easy for me to realize I was mistaken and need to move on. And whether or not I still own him has nothing to do with that fact. Again, going by the premise that just because someone owns a player means it clouds their judgment doesn't make sense the majority of the time. I will trust an owner of a player far more often than I'll trust a non-owner who argues against someone. Oftentimes the owners of players (either in the past or currently) pay more attention to that player than not. I've never been a Moreno fan and didn't get him in any leagues. While I still don't really care for him, I'm not going to vehemently argue how bad he is to others because honestly I didn't pay that much attention to him or watch him more than the average player. I can tell you that I pay far more attention to the players I own and I've changed my mind plenty of times after doing so.

I do see both sides of this, but I think a lot of people (myself included) have an inherent bias once a player is on their team. I'm guilty many times of holding on to someone longer than I should because I've invested in him. And, I'd rather be wrong a little while longer hoping the player turns it around than cut bait on somebody rather cheaply only to see that player come back and prove your original premise correct. It turns my stomach much more so when a former rostered player pans out than when the reverse is true.

 

[Rovers]

The hometown fan thing is the biggest drag on the board. Yes, we know your a fan of <fill in the blank> and hate <fill in the blank>. We got it. Stick to the fantasy topics. We already know <your team> stinks.

I think this is only partially accurate. There is a difference between a blind homer and an objective one who offers some insight being local to a team can provide. I've gotten some great insight from homers on this board and elsewhere. It's a bit like reading local beat reporter's articles. Some few are good, some are too homerish, and some only think they are doing their jobs if they are negative all the time. As for the OP's first observation.... I took Spiller at 1.3 in a dynasty and I already hate the pick.

 

[gianmarco]

And my rebuttal to this nonsense is dismissing someone's opinion simply because they own that player on their team.Which do you think happens more frequently?1) An owner drafts/trades for a player and THEN thinks he's a good player and has talentor2) An owner thinks a player has talent and THEN drafts/trades for him?It's completely absurd to think an owner is "biased" about a player just because he owns him. The fact that he owns him is simply the result of the owner liking him. Now, are there owners that can't admit the fault of that decision and continue to argue for a player years after the fact? Yeah, I guess, but those owners are few and far between. Most owners don't keep a player on their roster year after year if they aren't performing well. In fact, most of those owners drop the player and then become instant arguers against them. How many ex-owners of guys have we seen saying "I don't want to deal with this headache" or "I'll let someone else deal with so and so"? All the time. I'd be much more wary of an owner arguing vehemently for a player and NOT owning him on one of their teams. They are either full of it or aren't good enough owners to trust their own opinions and go after the players they want. So sorry, I completely disagree with #1 as something that clouds an SP owner's judgment.

You beat me to it. I was going to post the exact same thing.For instance, I think Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR in the league. Is that because I own him? Of course not- at one point in time I did not own him, but thought highly enough of him to trade two studs and a rookie 1st rounder to acquire him. So basically what point #1 is saying is that if I don't own Fitzgerald, I can say he's great... but the instant I actually put my money where my mouth is, my opinion doesn't matter?If anything, I'm far, far, far more wary of people who are sky-high on a player if they DON'T own him in dynasty. For instance, the guys projecting 1300 yards and 15 scores from Jermichael Finley? If they don't own him, they're basically saying that even they don't believe what they're selling because they aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is and get him.

I think you guys are right, but I also think the original point is often correct. If we're talking about this year's re-draft, of course I will believe the guy who's willing to put his money where his mouth is on projections, etc. Example: staffers saying they are high on SJax in a recent thread and then backing it up by stating they drafted him #6 recently.However, you definitely have people in dynasty who invest a lot in a player either in the draft or in a trade and then refuse to admit that circumstances have changed or maybe they overestimated the talent or the opporunity. Example: Slaton. If someone gave up a ton for him last year, they are obviously going to be hard pressed to admit that he can't perform this year or ever again. You also see recent examples of this in the recent Foster thread on this board.

There are certainly plenty of Slaton owners/ex-owners that have changed their mind on him. However, I also have no beef with an owner who believed in Slaton who is still arguing for him. They aren't clouded by the fact that they own him. They are sticking to what their original belief was on him and the book certainly isn't closed on him. The guy had a pretty serious injury that definitely could have contributed to his poor 2009 season. It still remains to be seen if he's as good as some people thought based on 2008. But I completely disagree that someone who invested in Slaton heavily last year is going to be "hard pressed to admit that he can't perform this year". I was a big Kevin Smith fan. Bought him in a bunch of leagues. I'm now stuck holding the bag in a couple of those leagues where I kept him. Why would I be "hard pressed" to admit I invested poorly in him? Even if I still believed he has some talent (which at times I do), I certainly won't be going into any threads arguing that the guy is the bomb and people are wrong about him. It's incredibly easy for me to realize I was mistaken and need to move on. And whether or not I still own him has nothing to do with that fact. Again, going by the premise that just because someone owns a player means it clouds their judgment doesn't make sense the majority of the time. I will trust an owner of a player far more often than I'll trust a non-owner who argues against someone. Oftentimes the owners of players (either in the past or currently) pay more attention to that player than not. I've never been a Moreno fan and didn't get him in any leagues. While I still don't really care for him, I'm not going to vehemently argue how bad he is to others because honestly I didn't pay that much attention to him or watch him more than the average player. I can tell you that I pay far more attention to the players I own and I've changed my mind plenty of times after doing so.

I do see both sides of this, but I think a lot of people (myself included) have an inherent bias once a player is on their team. I'm guilty many times of holding on to someone longer than I should because I've invested in him. And, I'd rather be wrong a little while longer hoping the player turns it around than cut bait on somebody rather cheaply only to see that player come back and prove your original premise correct. It turns my stomach much more so when a former rostered player pans out than when the reverse is true.

There's a difference between holding a player a little longer when you invested in him and coming here and arguing for that player. I'm not disagreeing one bit that there are a good number of owners who are reluctant to cut bait on someone they thought was going to be worth more. We've all done that, I'm sure. However, just because we are guilty of that doesn't mean it clouds our judgment when posting here. I'm quite sure most owners are well aware of the fact that some player isn't what they thought they were but just don't want to give up. Even if these owners do come here and then try to defend those players vehemently, the number of times you'll see that are far less than those who truly believe in a player and thus own them, IMO. For some odd reason, there's a negativity around here about being a proponent of a player AND owning them. Arguments for a player are often dismissed with "so how many teams do you own him on?". It's completely counterintuitive. Again, if I'm going to argue that strongly for a player, then I hope I truly feel that way and do what I can to get him on my team. I didn't just happen to acquire him on 6 of my 9 dynasty teams and then said "hey, you know what, now let me go post how much I like him since he happened to find his way on so many of my teams". It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Catbird]

I think most of us are far less clear and objective than we assume. If you own guys, you tend to read more about them. 90% of what is written about most players is good and positive. If three articles are written, one each on each of the three HOU RB candidates, for example, the one on Tate emphasizes his upside, the one on Slaton emphasizes his, etc. If you own Tate and read teh article on him you think ... exactly. And if you read the one on Foster you think ... this guy is reaching. I think we pick or trade for guys because we like them, but I think typically we get to liking them more as we read good things about their future and potential. And as we place our success or failure in their hands.

I don't think you ignore a guy's views because he owns the player - he probably knows more about the guy than most who don't own him. But I do think there tends to be far more overly-positive feelings by owners about their guys than overly-negative? I just try to take into account who is talking and (if they post often) their particular viewpoints (read: biases). Ain't none of us without 'em. And projecting the future for guys in whom you have a huge interest in their doing well - just colors the judgment of those of us not completely detached and neutral.

When you cut a guy or trade him away and think, 'Why did I keep that POS around for so long?' It was because of your mental/emotional commitment or too strong belief in his potential. Good for you if this never happens and you are totallty neutral with everyone. There aren't many of you.

 

[SSOG]

Wow, that's getting a bit far fetched with the Finley deal. Sometimes reasonable trades just can't be made. I really don't think anyone around here is making projections they don't believe in*. What's the motive? Might want to step back from that statement. Seems to be a sore topic for you.

It's not a sore topic, I only brought up Finley because he's the clearest example of a player that some people are way higher on than 95% of the fantasy community. Some guys are projecting record-setting numbers for him. Maybe the Finley owner isn't looking to sell, but there comes a price when anyone will sell. Offer him two rookie firsts for Finley and I guarantee he'll bite. Is that extreme? Not if you really believe that Finley is going to be a 1300/15-a-year TE.I see a lot of people making bold calls in the Shark Pool. Maybe it's a desire to be the guy who makes the "hero call". Maybe it's just that they really don't have any concept of historical precedent or typical production. Whatever it is, unless they're actually backing up those extremely high-end predictions by acquiring the player in question at all costs (as those predictions would merit), it just sends up a giant red flag to me. On the other hand, if they're putting their money where their mouth is- if they *ARE* going out and acquiring Finley at all costs, in this example- then I'm going to listen a bit more intently to what they have to say. If someone is spending their resources in a manner congruent to their stated valuations, then that tells me that their valuations have a bit more merit to them.

 

[FUBAR]

Preconceived notions. Once someone has a mindset of Player X will be the next stud, it normally takes a lot to change that opinion. It's part stubbornness, part the determination to be right. See: Reggie Bush, Darren McFadden, Matt Leinart.

everyone is guilty of this to some extent, I find the more successful people in FF, dating, and stocks are those who are better able to push aside preconceived notions. Too many of us have an inherent need to be "right" and appear brilliant to others. Most don't even realize this is the case.

 

[JHuber77]

Preconceived notions. Once someone has a mindset of Player X will be the next stud, it normally takes a lot to change that opinion. It's part stubbornness, part the determination to be right. See: Reggie Bush, Darren McFadden, Matt Leinart.

everyone is guilty of this to some extent, I find the more successful people in FF, dating, and stocks are those who are better able to push aside preconceived notions. Too many of us have an inherent need to be "right" and appear brilliant to others. Most don't even realize this is the case.

 

[gianmarco]

Wow, that's getting a bit far fetched with the Finley deal. Sometimes reasonable trades just can't be made. I really don't think anyone around here is making projections they don't believe in*. What's the motive? Might want to step back from that statement. Seems to be a sore topic for you.

It's not a sore topic, I only brought up Finley because he's the clearest example of a player that some people are way higher on than 95% of the fantasy community. Some guys are projecting record-setting numbers for him. Maybe the Finley owner isn't looking to sell, but there comes a price when anyone will sell. Offer him two rookie firsts for Finley and I guarantee he'll bite. Is that extreme? Not if you really believe that Finley is going to be a 1300/15-a-year TE.I see a lot of people making bold calls in the Shark Pool. Maybe it's a desire to be the guy who makes the "hero call". Maybe it's just that they really don't have any concept of historical precedent or typical production. Whatever it is, unless they're actually backing up those extremely high-end predictions by acquiring the player in question at all costs (as those predictions would merit), it just sends up a giant red flag to me. On the other hand, if they're putting their money where their mouth is- if they *ARE* going out and acquiring Finley at all costs, in this example- then I'm going to listen a bit more intently to what they have to say. If someone is spending their resources in a manner congruent to their stated valuations, then that tells me that their valuations have a bit more merit to them.

Exactly. I posted a few months ago about Miles Austin being the #1 WR in FF after this year. I bought him in every league I could and paid some big prices in a couple of those leagues. There's a difference between that and someone touting a player and then trying to sell him off at the posted inflated price (see Jared Cook).

 

[Donsmith753]

As SSOG says, it's easy to talk and talk but it really matters if you're actually willing to back it up.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

I can understand that

 

[AB in DC]

A lot of times it's just a lack of open-mindedness. Too many people feel it's more important to be right -- and act like they have to prove it to everyone else -- than to actually contribute to the discussion.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

1. Owning the player in any dyansty league. Has an owner ever posted that they were wrong when they made a pick or that the players that fill their rosters are not full of talent and going to rule the world?

And my rebuttal to this nonsense is dismissing someone's opinion simply because they own that player on their team.Which do you think happens more frequently?1) An owner drafts/trades for a player and THEN thinks he's a good player and has talentor2) An owner thinks a player has talent and THEN drafts/trades for him?It's completely absurd to think an owner is "biased" about a player just because he owns him. The fact that he owns him is simply the result of the owner liking him. Now, are there owners that can't admit the fault of that decision and continue to argue for a player years after the fact? Yeah, I guess, but those owners are few and far between. Most owners don't keep a player on their roster year after year if they aren't performing well. In fact, most of those owners drop the player and then become instant arguers against them. How many ex-owners of guys have we seen saying "I don't want to deal with this headache" or "I'll let someone else deal with so and so"? All the time. I'd be much more wary of an owner arguing vehemently for a player and NOT owning him on one of their teams. They are either full of it or aren't good enough owners to trust their own opinions and go after the players they want. So sorry, I completely disagree with #1 as something that clouds an SP owner's judgment.

You beat me to it. I was going to post the exact same thing.For instance, I think Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR in the league. Is that because I own him? Of course not- at one point in time I did not own him, but thought highly enough of him to trade two studs and a rookie 1st rounder to acquire him. So basically what point #1 is saying is that if I don't own Fitzgerald, I can say he's great... but the instant I actually put my money where my mouth is, my opinion doesn't matter?If anything, I'm far, far, far more wary of people who are sky-high on a player if they DON'T own him in dynasty. For instance, the guys projecting 1300 yards and 15 scores from Jermichael Finley? If they don't own him, they're basically saying that even they don't believe what they're selling because they aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is and get him.

Whoa Charlie Brown...both of you. I was speaking in generalities, if anything both of you just made my point even more crystal clear. You both took offense to something that was simply my opinion. And it happens a lot. A thread topic about a certain player in redraft is created and maybe not everyone is bullish on the 2010 outlook and suddenly the white knight on a pony comes trotting in and takes the castle by storm, and coincidentally they own the player in dynasty or perhaps just drafted them in redraft leagues. Why do you two act so defensive...I might as well have posted Gainmarco and SSOG in my first example. It's all in fun, just poking at you guys but I think you jumped the shark just a bit on my first example. This thread seems to be garnering some interest, haven't read thru all the posts yet. I appreciate you two chiming in though, duly noted.

 

[Go deep]

Guys being named the starter in June and people assuming that's how it'll be from here till eternity. Selvin Young anyone?

2010: See Arian Foster.

He gets drafted in the middle teen rounds, mostly guys taking a flyer, what's the downside? Houston situation is probably going to be fluid and on into the season if you ask me.

Wasting a pick in the teen rounds.

 

[krsone21]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

Wrong...

I have been on these message boards for a long time and MisfitBlondes is not wrong...I have seen plenty of examples of what Misfit is saying.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Guys being named the starter in June and people assuming that's how it'll be from here till eternity. Selvin Young anyone?

2010: See Arian Foster.

He gets drafted in the middle teen rounds, mostly guys taking a flyer, what's the downside? Houston situation is probably going to be fluid and on into the season if you ask me.

Wasting a pick in the teen rounds.

Hey GD, I would say that once you get into the middle teen rounds it's a crapshoot. Almost all the players chosen are "value" if they pan out and with Foster you are grabbing a guy that has actually started even if it was by default. Are you high on Tate or Slaton? just feel like Houston is a black hole this season? Thanks

 

[Go deep]

Fantasy football is like sex and driving, 90% of people think they are in the top 10%. Problem with this is if you think you know more than everyone else, you are less likely to learn something. Even if i disagree with someones point, i at least try to understand where they are coming from.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Fantasy football is like sex and driving, 90% of people think they are in the top 10%. Problem with this is if you think you know more than everyone else, you are less likely to learn something. Even if i disagree with someones point, i at least try to understand where they are coming from.

Everyone should click on the sig for GD, nice spreadsheet and everything is concise and easy to scroll thru, nice job.

 

[Go deep]

Guys being named the starter in June and people assuming that's how it'll be from here till eternity. Selvin Young anyone?

2010: See Arian Foster.

He gets drafted in the middle teen rounds, mostly guys taking a flyer, what's the downside? Houston situation is probably going to be fluid and on into the season if you ask me.

Wasting a pick in the teen rounds.

Hey GD, I would say that once you get into the middle teen rounds it's a crapshoot. Almost all the players chosen are "value" if they pan out and with Foster you are grabbing a guy that has actually started even if it was by default. Are you high on Tate or Slaton? just feel like Houston is a black hole this season? Thanks

I agree, it is mostly a crapshoot, but alot of drafts are won in those rounds. Ive made my thoughts clear on foster in other threads, but to sum up, there are much better players to take a shot at in rounds 10-15.

 

[identikit]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

Wrong...

I have been on these message boards for a long time and MisfitBlondes is not wrong...I have seen plenty of examples of what Misfit is saying.

 

[Go deep]

Fantasy football is like sex and driving, 90% of people think they are in the top 10%. Problem with this is if you think you know more than everyone else, you are less likely to learn something. Even if i disagree with someones point, i at least try to understand where they are coming from.

Everyone should click on the sig for GD, nice spreadsheet and everything is concise and easy to scroll thru, nice job.

Thanks MOP!

 

[No Way Jose]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

Wrong...

I have been on these message boards for a long time and MisfitBlondes is not wrong...I have seen plenty of examples of what Misfit is saying.

And you are Wrong too....

 

[Go deep]

1. Owning the player in any dyansty league. Has an owner ever posted that they were wrong when they made a pick or that the players that fill their rosters are not full of talent and going to rule the world?

And my rebuttal to this nonsense is dismissing someone's opinion simply because they own that player on their team.Which do you think happens more frequently?1) An owner drafts/trades for a player and THEN thinks he's a good player and has talentor2) An owner thinks a player has talent and THEN drafts/trades for him?It's completely absurd to think an owner is "biased" about a player just because he owns him. The fact that he owns him is simply the result of the owner liking him. Now, are there owners that can't admit the fault of that decision and continue to argue for a player years after the fact? Yeah, I guess, but those owners are few and far between. Most owners don't keep a player on their roster year after year if they aren't performing well. In fact, most of those owners drop the player and then become instant arguers against them. How many ex-owners of guys have we seen saying "I don't want to deal with this headache" or "I'll let someone else deal with so and so"? All the time. I'd be much more wary of an owner arguing vehemently for a player and NOT owning him on one of their teams. They are either full of it or aren't good enough owners to trust their own opinions and go after the players they want. So sorry, I completely disagree with #1 as something that clouds an SP owner's judgment.

You beat me to it. I was going to post the exact same thing.For instance, I think Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR in the league. Is that because I own him? Of course not- at one point in time I did not own him, but thought highly enough of him to trade two studs and a rookie 1st rounder to acquire him. So basically what point #1 is saying is that if I don't own Fitzgerald, I can say he's great... but the instant I actually put my money where my mouth is, my opinion doesn't matter?If anything, I'm far, far, far more wary of people who are sky-high on a player if they DON'T own him in dynasty. For instance, the guys projecting 1300 yards and 15 scores from Jermichael Finley? If they don't own him, they're basically saying that even they don't believe what they're selling because they aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is and get him.

I agree with this, to a degree. I loved Felix Jones this offseason, but didnt own him in any of my leagues. I think when bias starts to become a problem is when you let your love for a player clouds your judgement. There is a fine line, but i guarantee you eveyone is guilty of letting their bias affect them before, and likely will again.

 

[Gr00vus]

Has an owner ever posted that they were wrong when they made a pick or that the players that fill their rosters are not full of talent and going to rule the world?

It's funny, but I tend to go the other way. I'll build up players in my own head going into the draft. Once I actually draft them there's a 3-4 week honeymoon, but then if they aren't performing like I expected I start loathing them. It's tough to admit you were wrong, but for me it's tougher to watch my season tank because I was wrong. Then the bitterness sets in when you realize you can't work out of your wasted investment for anything more than a half eaten vending machine tuna salad sandwich all the while watching the "other" guys you had considered taking with that pick tear it up. So I guess I'm talking about sort of the flip side/inverse of being overly enamored with your own guys - getting caught up in disappointment with your own guys and coveting other players you "should" have taken instead. It's sort of a grass is greener kind of thing. The potential pitfall here is you do something rash (like release him for waiver wire cosmetic jewelry or trade him for the aforementioned sandwich) and then the guy you originally had ends up doing what you thought he'd do - particularly if schedule or injury were legitimate explanations for his underperforming (that you should have acknowledged). Then again sometimes Larry Johnson really does suck and you should have taken the sandwich.

 

[ookook]

The one I find most annoying is homerism not based on NFL allegiance, but collegiate allegiances.

"You guys are wrong about Sid Vicious. I saw him play lots at Miskatonic University and he is as explosive as any player entering the league".

Sure, they have seen someone firsthand, but it mixes honerism with the problem that playing in college is not a great predictor of NFL.

Hey, I was going to grad school at NIU when LeShon Johnson ran up crazy numbers, but I was less than optimistic when the Packers drafted him...

 

[Jason Wood]

I think we all have biases. How can you be a FAN (short for fanatic) of this caliber and not have preconceptions?

I think the real key, and what I think we all should strive for, is leveraging the Shark Pool and our other conversations as a means of testing our theories. If you're not open to being swayed the other way on a player, I can't fathom why you would bother listening to The Audible or hanging out in the Shark Pool or reading our site's content, or sitting around a bar talking football with your friends.

I have a detailed set of projections up and running by the end of April every year, because that's part of my role on the site. That means, by definition, I have preconceived expectations for most players before we get into the heart of the preseason. So if I used the next few months solely to defense my April expectations, I would a) be doing Joe & David a huge disservice, b) be doing our subscribers a disservice, c) doing myself a huge disservice. I aim to have my theories debated and challenged, so that I can hopefully improve upon the initial set and -- by the time our drafts are in full gear -- they'll be that much better and more thoroughly conceived.

I also think we all get to the end zone following a different path. I PERSONALLY find most beat writer "reporting" to be useless. But there are some beat writers who are more balanced and analytical than others. The Audible beat writer tour is a great chance to hear from some of those guys/girls. I also think you need to recognize what you're getting. As Sean (MOP) said, beat writers are paid TO WRITE. Even when there's not much there. So the trick is to understand what's their opinion, and what's based on factual observation or commentary from someone who matters...i.e., a scout or coach or personnel exec involved in the situation.

 

[moondog]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

Wrong...

I have been on these message boards for a long time and MisfitBlondes is not wrong...I have seen plenty of examples of what Misfit is saying.

As have I and I also agree with MisfitBlondes.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'd love it to be that way but the yellow board days are long gone. I find the SP groupthink to be behind the times now and it's unfortunate as I believe there are people wanting to step in that don't want to waste their time.

Sorry you feel that way. Any board changes with time, particularly as the membership grows and many of the long-time folks feel comfortable and thus treat each other more like old friends (and are thus more prone to snark, curtness, aggression) than they would've been when they felt like visitors looking to start a collaboration. We try as hard as we can to make this a place that's welcoming to everyone. If you (or anyone else) feels that's not the case, PLEASE use the REPORT function and speak your mind to us. We can't police every thread all the time (and we're just as often accused of being heavy handed with our moderation as we are accused of not fostering a friendly environment) and have to rely on REPORTS (with explanations for what specifically is amiss) to try to keep up with things.

 

[No Way Jose]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

Wrong...

I have been on these message boards for a long time and MisfitBlondes is not wrong...I have seen plenty of examples of what Misfit is saying.

As have I and I also agree with MisfitBlondes.

Geez guys....I guess sarcasm just doeant translate to message boards.

 

[Instinctive]

One of the reasons I don't like participating/contributing in SP threads is that if I have a differing opinion on a player, someone will either laugh at my opinion or just say "you're wrong." I find there's too many people who believe they are always correct and will not entertain thoughts from different perspectives. The bullish mentality makes the SP a hostile environment for many and it isn't worth the effort to try to discuss anything.

Wrong...

I have been on these message boards for a long time and MisfitBlondes is not wrong...I have seen plenty of examples of what Misfit is saying.

As have I and I also agree with MisfitBlondes.

Geez guys....I guess sarcasm just doeant translate to message boards.

You've been here long enough to know that you have to use the smilie