Thoughts on Beanie Wells latest knee surgery (1 Viewer)

[Jene Bramel]

Beanie Wells: Microfracture? Does it matter? What's the long term outlook now?

 

[Touchdown There]

I have had micro-fracture surgery. The way the surgeon explained it to me is that he drilled small holes, which then spurt bone marrow into any cracks or grooves you have in your knee. Eventually this forms the fibrous material discussed in your article that is not as good as actual cartilage.

6 months after my surgery, I still felt "heat" in the knee. I know these guys have better rehab and all that, but micro-fracture is certainly much more serious than a standard floating cartilage cleanup or scope.

I also do not believe his agent one bit.

 

[HE DID WHAT!?]

I have had micro-fracture surgery. The way the surgeon explained it to me is that he drilled small holes, which then spurt bone marrow into any cracks or grooves you have in your knee. Eventually this forms the fibrous material discussed in your article that is not as good as actual cartilage.6 months after my surgery, I still felt "heat" in the knee. I know these guys have better rehab and all that, but micro-fracture is certainly much more serious than a standard floating cartilage cleanup or scope.I also do not believe his agent one bit.

I have an uncle that had it and described it the same way. It still bugged him when he golfed 4 months later. Preseason will be telling.

 

[Shutout]

I really don't like reports like these where it has the aura of a person trying to manufacture news rather than just report what is there.

The questions were asked what it was and the man said it was not Microfracture. The agent said it was not microfracture. Anything contrary to that is speculation, at best. And then to go on and paint the scenario as if it is microfracture...waste of time.

this is akin to someone asking me what kind of car I drive. I say a Volvo. And then the salesman comes out and is asked the same question and he says its a Volvo.

Then the "reporter" goes back and writes a story about how I smiled when I said volvo, so it COULD have been a Ford and Fords don't have as good of safety ratings as volvos, and therefore, I'm not as safe as I could be. Its ALL speculation and baseless.

 

[DansRams]

I really don't like reports like these where it has the aura of a person trying to manufacture news rather than just report what is there. The questions were asked what it was and the man said it was not Microfracture. The agent said it was not microfracture. Anything contrary to that is speculation, at best. And then to go on and paint the scenario as if it is microfracture...waste of time.this is akin to someone asking me what kind of car I drive. I say a Volvo. And then the salesman comes out and is asked the same question and he says its a Volvo.Then the "reporter" goes back and writes a story about how I smiled when I said volvo, so it COULD have been a Ford and Fords don't have as good of safety ratings as volvos, and therefore, I'm not as safe as I could be. Its ALL speculation and baseless.

....couldnt agree more

 

[bostonfred]

Beanie was good last year but sporadic while playing through whatever injury he had. Now he's going into this year healthier than last year, regardless of what surgery he had. I understand the injury risk, but his ceiling is much higher than the average rb. This is probably your best chance to buy low on a guy who could be an elite rb if healthy.

 

[todisco1]

I really don't like reports like these where it has the aura of a person trying to manufacture news rather than just report what is there. The questions were asked what it was and the man said it was not Microfracture. The agent said it was not microfracture. Anything contrary to that is speculation, at best. And then to go on and paint the scenario as if it is microfracture...waste of time.this is akin to someone asking me what kind of car I drive. I say a Volvo. And then the salesman comes out and is asked the same question and he says its a Volvo.Then the "reporter" goes back and writes a story about how I smiled when I said volvo, so it COULD have been a Ford and Fords don't have as good of safety ratings as volvos, and therefore, I'm not as safe as I could be. Its ALL speculation and baseless.

....couldnt agree more

Except from the article Wells didn't say it was not microfracture. What he did was say it was a little more complicated than meniscus surgery, and when asked if was microfracture surgery he smiled and said nothing. Huge difference than the Volvo example.

 

[DoubleG]

I have had micro-fracture surgery. The way the surgeon explained it to me is that he drilled small holes, which then spurt bone marrow into any cracks or grooves you have in your knee. Eventually this forms the fibrous material discussed in your article that is not as good as actual cartilage.6 months after my surgery, I still felt "heat" in the knee. I know these guys have better rehab and all that, but micro-fracture is certainly much more serious than a standard floating cartilage cleanup or scope.I also do not believe his agent one bit.

I have an uncle that had it and described it the same way. It still bugged him when he golfed 4 months later. Preseason will be telling.

I mean no offense, but Beanie Wells is probably a lot younger and in better shape than your uncle. And once again, the only thing denied specifically was microfracture surgery...so that is exactly what everyone presumes he had. And no, preseason wont really be that telling. If they only give 3-6 carries a game that would tell us...that he is just like every other starting RB - limited touches to keep him fresh and rested for when the games actually matter.Now, if there are reports (ala Britt) that Wells' knee is giving him problems after 3-5 carries in a preseason game, yes, then maybe we learned something.Let's try to keep the thread based on actual facts (and ones about Wells, not elderly folk who had something 10 years ago that may or may not be completely unrelated to the procedure a 24 year old NFL RB had).

 

[beef]

Ford owned Volvo from 1999-2010.

 

[DansRams]

Ford owned Volvo from 1999-2010.

rofl...

 

[Steel Dillo]

I had the same procedure when I was 29 (a little over ten yrs ago). I've played a ton of golf & other sports since then & it's holding up fine.

The type that scares me is when they fracture the bone with a hammer to get the same effect.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I really don't like reports like these where it has the aura of a person trying to manufacture news rather than just report what is there. The questions were asked what it was and the man said it was not Microfracture. The agent said it was not microfracture. Anything contrary to that is speculation, at best. And then to go on and paint the scenario as if it is microfracture...waste of time.this is akin to someone asking me what kind of car I drive. I say a Volvo. And then the salesman comes out and is asked the same question and he says its a Volvo.Then the "reporter" goes back and writes a story about how I smiled when I said volvo, so it COULD have been a Ford and Fords don't have as good of safety ratings as volvos, and therefore, I'm not as safe as I could be. Its ALL speculation and baseless.

I don't think it's baseless. There are significant and important differences between microfracture surgery and a simple meniscal repair. This is not the first time the Arizona media has been told conflicting things about a Wells' injury before later learning more of the truth. Neither of those statements are speculation. If the same questions and reactions occurred during the regular season, I think it would have drawn similar attention.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Beanie was good last year but sporadic while playing through whatever injury he had. Now he's going into this year healthier than last year, regardless of what surgery he had. I understand the injury risk, but his ceiling is much higher than the average rb. This is probably your best chance to buy low on a guy who could be an elite rb if healthy.

I agree. Unlike 2010, Wells seemed committed to playing through pain and swelling more often last year. The rest of his comments in the stories I linked suggest a more mature understanding of how to handle his condition. I like his talent and the depth chart situation. If he can avoid flares -- which is not a trivial concern -- he could be a strong fantasy back. Just be prepared for a backup plan. Same goes for MJD, who has had a similar medical history recently.

 

[cstu]

Beanie was good last year but sporadic while playing through whatever injury he had. Now he's going into this year healthier than last year, regardless of what surgery he had. I understand the injury risk, but his ceiling is much higher than the average rb. This is probably your best chance to buy low on a guy who could be an elite rb if healthy.

What injuries did Wells have going into last season?

 

[imagroid]

this is akin to someone asking me what kind of car I drive. I say a Volvo. And then the salesman comes out and is asked the same question and he says its a Volvo.Then the "reporter" goes back and writes a story about how I smiled when I said volvo, so it COULD have been a Ford and Fords don't have as good of safety ratings as volvos, and therefore, I'm not as safe as I could be.

I know what you mean man. Last time I bought a car it was worse than a Tebow press conference. Place was crawling with press.

 

[NJ]

I don't think it's baseless. There are significant and important differences between microfracture surgery and a simple meniscal repair. This is not the first time the Arizona media has been told conflicting things about a Wells' injury before later learning more of the truth.

I think the point is that there is a big difference between someone speculating that Wells might have had microfracture surgery and someone coming to a conclusion that "it’s more likely that Wells had microfracture surgery" when there is really no evidence to back that conclusion. No disrespect as I enjoy reading your stuff, but from what I can tell, the facts that we have so far is:

Beanie said it was a little more complicated than meniscus surgery and smiled when asked if it was microfracture.

His agent described the surgery as "a clean-out procedure" and explicitly said Wells did not undergo microfracture surgery or any other procedure requiring an extended recovery period.

I'm not sure how one concludes that its more likely he had microfracture surgery from those facts. All of the medical info about chronic knee problems and bone on bone conditions is speculation at this point as we don't know that is what's going on with Beanie's knee. And considering that the Cardinals probably don't expect Ryan Williams to be able to carry the load day 1 and they obviously would have known way back in January if Beanie had microfracture, I would think they would have already addressed the RB situation by adding a rookie RB through the draft or a veteran through free agency if Beanie did indeed have microfracture surgery. They still could do that, but they seem to not be too worried about it at this point. Also, speculating the agent is lying doesn't make a whole lot of sense, yes agents have lied before, but they usually have something to gain by it. I have no idea what he would have to gain by lying in this situation, Beanie is not looking for a new contract, the Cardinals obviously know if he had microfracture so he's not fooling them at all, and what does he have to gain by lying to the fans? Unless his agent owns Beanie in a dynasty league and is trying to pimp him to another team, I just don't know why he would say he didn't have microfracture if he did indeed have microfracture. And FWIW, Darren Urban who follows the AZ Cardinals closely said in his blog he does not think he had microfracture when asked directly about it.

I'm not saying there is no chance he had microfracture surgery, I'm just saying that the evidence we've seen so far would seem to logically lead one to conclude that he more likely didn't have microfracture than that he did. Someone concluding from this evidence that he likely did have microfracture surgery just seems to be trying to stir the pot IMHO.

 

[Shutout]

I don't think it's baseless. There are significant and important differences between microfracture surgery and a simple meniscal repair. This is not the first time the Arizona media has been told conflicting things about a Wells' injury before later learning more of the truth.

I think the point is that there is a big difference between someone speculating that Wells might have had microfracture surgery and someone coming to a conclusion that "it’s more likely that Wells had microfracture surgery" when there is really no evidence to back that conclusion. No disrespect as I enjoy reading your stuff, but from what I can tell, the facts that we have so far is:

Beanie said it was a little more complicated than meniscus surgery and smiled when asked if it was microfracture.

His agent described the surgery as "a clean-out procedure" and explicitly said Wells did not undergo microfracture surgery or any other procedure requiring an extended recovery period.

I'm not sure how one concludes that its more likely he had microfracture surgery from those facts. All of the medical info about chronic knee problems and bone on bone conditions is speculation at this point as we don't know that is what's going on with Beanie's knee. And considering that the Cardinals probably don't expect Ryan Williams to be able to carry the load day 1 and they obviously would have known way back in January if Beanie had microfracture, I would think they would have already addressed the RB situation by adding a rookie RB through the draft or a veteran through free agency if Beanie did indeed have microfracture surgery. They still could do that, but they seem to not be too worried about it at this point. Also, speculating the agent is lying doesn't make a whole lot of sense, yes agents have lied before, but they usually have something to gain by it. I have no idea what he would have to gain by lying in this situation, Beanie is not looking for a new contract, the Cardinals obviously know if he had microfracture so he's not fooling them at all, and what does he have to gain by lying to the fans? Unless his agent owns Beanie in a dynasty league and is trying to pimp him to another team, I just don't know why he would say he didn't have microfracture if he did indeed have microfracture. And FWIW, Darren Urban who follows the AZ Cardinals closely said in his blog he does not think he had microfracture when asked directly about it.

I'm not saying there is no chance he had microfracture surgery, I'm just saying that the evidence we've seen so far would seem to logically lead one to conclude that he more likely didn't have microfracture than that he did. Someone concluding from this evidence that he likely did have microfracture surgery just seems to be trying to stir the pot IMHO.

That IS my point, summed up nicely by you.I was just saying that I don't see the point of speculating more when the guy, the team, and/or the agent did not in fact say "yes", it was a microfracture. Why would we go to a doctor and discuss the impact of chicken pox if the doctor looks at the rash on my body and does not say "you have chicken pox?"

I also think it means something (not sure to what degree) that the team did not draft a RB and is going to go with beanie and Williams (a guy they know is hurt). I would have to think in a league where every team uses 3 RBs to a degree regularly, that if they were having concerns about Williams and his injury and they knew Beanie had microfracture surgery, that, at a minimum, a guy like Ced Ben or someone would be in camp, at least.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I don't think it's baseless. There are significant and important differences between microfracture surgery and a simple meniscal repair. This is not the first time the Arizona media has been told conflicting things about a Wells' injury before later learning more of the truth.

I think the point is that there is a big difference between someone speculating that Wells might have had microfracture surgery and someone coming to a conclusion that "it’s more likely that Wells had microfracture surgery" when there is really no evidence to back that conclusion. No disrespect as I enjoy reading your stuff, but from what I can tell, the facts that we have so far is:

Beanie said it was a little more complicated than meniscus surgery and smiled when asked if it was microfracture.

His agent described the surgery as "a clean-out procedure" and explicitly said Wells did not undergo microfracture surgery or any other procedure requiring an extended recovery period.

I'm not sure how one concludes that its more likely he had microfracture surgery from those facts. All of the medical info about chronic knee problems and bone on bone conditions is speculation at this point as we don't know that is what's going on with Beanie's knee. And considering that the Cardinals probably don't expect Ryan Williams to be able to carry the load day 1 and they obviously would have known way back in January if Beanie had microfracture, I would think they would have already addressed the RB situation by adding a rookie RB through the draft or a veteran through free agency if Beanie did indeed have microfracture surgery. They still could do that, but they seem to not be too worried about it at this point. Also, speculating the agent is lying doesn't make a whole lot of sense, yes agents have lied before, but they usually have something to gain by it. I have no idea what he would have to gain by lying in this situation, Beanie is not looking for a new contract, the Cardinals obviously know if he had microfracture so he's not fooling them at all, and what does he have to gain by lying to the fans? Unless his agent owns Beanie in a dynasty league and is trying to pimp him to another team, I just don't know why he would say he didn't have microfracture if he did indeed have microfracture. And FWIW, Darren Urban who follows the AZ Cardinals closely said in his blog he does not think he had microfracture when asked directly about it.

I'm not saying there is no chance he had microfracture surgery, I'm just saying that the evidence we've seen so far would seem to logically lead one to conclude that he more likely didn't have microfracture than that he did. Someone concluding from this evidence that he likely did have microfracture surgery just seems to be trying to stir the pot IMHO.

All fair points. I very much appreciate the discussion.I'm truly not interested in stirring the pot. The disconnect for me is this: Beanie Wells said his procedure was more complicated than meniscus surgery when asked if the meniscus was involved and he's still not fully ready to go four months after the procedure. Leave the smile out of the discussion, if you like. Regardless of what his agent said, if Beanie's comments -- which were spontaneous and not crafted in response to the burgeoning concerns after Wells' comments surfaced -- are truthful, there is really only one possible procedure he could've had.

Removing loose meniscal particles or other clean-out procedures are a brief rehab and wouldn't be "more complicated." A primary meniscus repair is complicated and has a longer rehabilitation period, but it's a meniscus surgery. That leaves microfracture surgery.

We've been through this with Wells before. Last year's "bone bruise" was called many different things by Wells and the team.

I don't have an explanation for why he and his agent might seek to blur the truth in the offseason. It just smells fishy to me.

I'm hoping Wells recovers well from whatever "a little more complicated" than meniscus surgery ends up being. I think he's been treated a little unfairly in some circles over the past couple of seasons.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

In other news, how is Ryan Williams doing Jene?

 

[Jene Bramel]

In other news, how is Ryan Williams doing Jene?

Sounds promising. He's been cleared to run and cut and says he feels great. He still acknowledges that the mass and strength in his quad muscle on that side isn't there yet (that's a common and expected issue and it may never be 100% of what it was pre-injury) and that he's confident but uncertain that he'll be ready for opening weekend.The first two weeks of training camp will be huge. If both these guys are healthy and in form, it's going to be a very good tandem. If one or both aren't ready to go early, the Cardinals may wish they were more proactive this offseason in finding a fit. Or it may be that the Michael Floyd selection was a hint that the alternative is even more of a pass-first footprint in the base offense.

 

[Touchdown There]

All fair points. I very much appreciate the discussion.

I'm truly not interested in stirring the pot. The disconnect for me is this: Beanie Wells said his procedure was more complicated than meniscus surgery when asked if the meniscus was involved and he's still not fully ready to go four months after the procedure. Leave the smile out of the discussion, if you like. Regardless of what his agent said, if Beanie's comments -- which was spontaneous and not crafted in response to the burgeoning concerns after Wells' comments surfaced -- are truthful, there is really only one possible procedure he could've had.

Removing loose meniscal particles or other clean-out procedures are a brief rehab and wouldn't be "more complicated." A primary meniscus repair is complicated and has a longer rehabilitation period, but it's a meniscus surgery. That leaves microfracture surgery.

We've been through this with Wells before. Last year's "bone bruise" was called many different things by Wells and the team.

I don't have an explanation for why he and his agent might seek to blur the truth in the offseason. It just smells fishy to me.

I'm hoping Wells recovers well from whatever "a little more complicated" than meniscus surgery ends up being. I think he's been treated a little unfairly in some circles over the past couple of seasons.

Jene, you hit the nail on the head. Everyone is allowed their own opinion and we believe the only logical explanation is a micro-fracture.The other point is this: a micro-fracture procedure would have been performed only if it was needed. A surgeon is not going to perform a procedure that is going to make a patient worse. The doctors job is to help a patient. The issue some people have in this thread is that this procedure does not bode well for Beanie Wells fantasy performance in 2012.

In other recent news, Titus Young punched Louis Delmas in the face. DetroitLions.com then printed an article about how it never happened. Days later Titus is still not allowed at the Lions facility and Coach Schwarz has made it clear that he will let everyone know when Titus is allowed back in the facility. Must be a Ford.

 

[NJ]

All fair points. I very much appreciate the discussion.I'm truly not interested in stirring the pot. The disconnect for me is this: Beanie Wells said his procedure was more complicated than meniscus surgery when asked if the meniscus was involved and he's still not fully ready to go four months after the procedure. Leave the smile out of the discussion, if you like. Regardless of what his agent said, if Beanie's comments -- which were spontaneous and not crafted in response to the burgeoning concerns after Wells' comments surfaced -- are truthful, there is really only one possible procedure he could've had. Removing loose meniscal particles or other clean-out procedures are a brief rehab and wouldn't be "more complicated." A primary meniscus repair is complicated and has a longer rehabilitation period, but it's a meniscus surgery. That leaves microfracture surgery. We've been through this with Wells before. Last year's "bone bruise" was called many different things by Wells and the team.I don't have an explanation for why he and his agent might seek to blur the truth in the offseason. It just smells fishy to me.I'm hoping Wells recovers well from whatever "a little more complicated" than meniscus surgery ends up being. I think he's been treated a little unfairly in some circles over the past couple of seasons.

Thanks, I appreciate the response and some of the clarification on your position. I agree with you that some of the comments that have been made about the surgery smell fishy and I can understand how that would lead some to think he might have had microfracture, but I believe most of the other evidence is contrary to that. I mean are you sure that "he's still not fully ready to go four months after the procedure"? I read that Whisenhunt basically said that they were just taking it easy with him and that the plan all along was for him and Ryan Williams to not do much in OTAs so I'm not sure necessarily that he's still physically unable to go all out in OTAs vs they just want to give him a little extra time to rest. That extra time to rest doesn't automatically mean it had to be microfracture vs. meniscus vs. simple cleanout etc.Also, in addition to there really being nothing to gain by his agent lying about it, could you also touch on why you think they would not have gone after another RB if Beanie did indeed have microfracture? I actually had read somewhere that Ryan Williams was targetting week 3 of the NFL season for his return which was a bit of an odd date to me so it may not have been very accurate, but regardless of his actual return date I don't think anyone expects Ryan Williams to be carrying the load week 1 so wouldn't they (the Cardinals) seemingly be a lot more concerned with their RB position right now if Beanie did indeed have microfracture?I certainly expect people to have different opinions on the matter, thats what the message board is for, but when you make statements like "there is really only one possible procedure he could've had", that is stating it almost as if its a fact that he had microfracture and you are a very well respected FBG and people are going to take your word a lot more than that of an average schmuck poster so I just think you need to be careful when making statements like that when it doesn't appear that there is enough evidence to state it as fact.

 

[gandalas]

So how did MJD do after getting Microfracture surgery last off-season? Anyone remember the concerns regarding his knee?

I am PRETTY sure he led the NFL in rushing yards, right?

My point is, even if it WAS a microfracture surgery, it is not exactly a death-knell for his season.

 

[HE DID WHAT!?]

I have had micro-fracture surgery. The way the surgeon explained it to me is that he drilled small holes, which then spurt bone marrow into any cracks or grooves you have in your knee. Eventually this forms the fibrous material discussed in your article that is not as good as actual cartilage.6 months after my surgery, I still felt "heat" in the knee. I know these guys have better rehab and all that, but micro-fracture is certainly much more serious than a standard floating cartilage cleanup or scope.I also do not believe his agent one bit.

I have an uncle that had it and described it the same way. It still bugged him when he golfed 4 months later. Preseason will be telling.

I mean no offense, but Beanie Wells is probably a lot younger and in better shape than your uncle. And once again, the only thing denied specifically was microfracture surgery...so that is exactly what everyone presumes he had. And no, preseason wont really be that telling. If they only give 3-6 carries a game that would tell us...that he is just like every other starting RB - limited touches to keep him fresh and rested for when the games actually matter.Now, if there are reports (ala Britt) that Wells' knee is giving him problems after 3-5 carries in a preseason game, yes, then maybe we learned something.Let's try to keep the thread based on actual facts (and ones about Wells, not elderly folk who had something 10 years ago that may or may not be completely unrelated to the procedure a 24 year old NFL RB had).

I only mentioned my uncle because his description of the surgery was identical to what the second post said. And if you don't get any information from training camp and preseason games about players coming off surgeries & procedures then, I mean no offense, you are not paying attention.

 

[DoubleG]

All fair points. I very much appreciate the discussion.

I'm truly not interested in stirring the pot. The disconnect for me is this: Beanie Wells said his procedure was more complicated than meniscus surgery when asked if the meniscus was involved and he's still not fully ready to go four months after the procedure. Leave the smile out of the discussion, if you like. Regardless of what his agent said, if Beanie's comments -- which were spontaneous and not crafted in response to the burgeoning concerns after Wells' comments surfaced -- are truthful, there is really only one possible procedure he could've had.

Removing loose meniscal particles or other clean-out procedures are a brief rehab and wouldn't be "more complicated." A primary meniscus repair is complicated and has a longer rehabilitation period, but it's a meniscus surgery. That leaves microfracture surgery.

This is the only issue I have with what you have said to this point. No, it doesn't leave microfracture surgery - it leaves any knee surgery that doesn't specifically deal with the miniscus. There are countless knee procedures - repairing any number of partially or completely torn ligaments, other cartiledge procedures - it could even be something like PVNS (Pigmented Villonodular Synovitis), or other synovial issues, many of which also require a complicated procedure to remedy. Many of which still only require a scope, but can take longer and are seen as more complicated (although recovery times for many are similar to a traditional "scope").While I agree, the situation is a little odd, removing "simple meniscus" repair from the equation does not autmatically leave only microfracture surgery. Now, is it possible it is microfracture? Sure. Just as possible as it's any number of the above.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I mean are you sure that "he's still not fully ready to go four months after the procedure"? I read that Whisenhunt basically said that they were just taking it easy with him and that the plan all along was for him and Ryan Williams to not do much in OTAs so I'm not sure necessarily that he's still physically unable to go all out in OTAs vs they just want to give him a little extra time to rest. That extra time to rest doesn't automatically mean it had to be microfracture vs. meniscus vs. simple cleanout etc.

Because his knee has been so balky, I believe he'd be limited in OTAs whether he had no surgery, minor meniscal surgery or something more significant. Wells has commented this week that he's still rehabbing and hasn't had any setbacks. I think it's reasonable to read those statements that he's still rehabbing from his January procedure, which is consistent with either a primary meniscus repair or microfracture.

Also, in addition to there really being nothing to gain by his agent lying about it, could you also touch on why you think they would not have gone after another RB if Beanie did indeed have microfracture? I actually had read somewhere that Ryan Williams was targetting week 3 of the NFL season for his return which was a bit of an odd date to me so it may not have been very accurate, but regardless of his actual return date I don't think anyone expects Ryan Williams to be carrying the load week 1 so wouldn't they (the Cardinals) seemingly be a lot more concerned with their RB position right now if Beanie did indeed have microfracture?

I think they should be more concerned. It could be that the draft didn't fall as they expected, they didn't think the free agent options were a good fit, they're comfortable waiting to see how one or both of their current question marks heal, they're planning more spread sets in the base offense and are comfortable with Larod Stephens-Howling. My intent wasn't to make the argument that Wells has little chance of a effective recovery -- I referenced MJD and Colston to make that point. Rather it's that Wells is a 24 year old with what appears to be a chronic knee injury necessitating surgical procedures that he and his agent seem to be understating. That, as you also recognize, has very important depth chart implications for the team and for those with fantasy interests, too.

 

[Warhogs]

I have not researched this in any way but it seems that microfracture surgery is becoming fairly routine with pretty good results lately. Someone above mentioned MJD had it last year? I think Colston did as well and put up very good numbers. I don't like to hear about any of the players on my teams having any surgery but I feel a lot more at ease about a microfracture surgery now then what I did a year or two ago.

 

[Jene Bramel]

All fair points. I very much appreciate the discussion.

I'm truly not interested in stirring the pot. The disconnect for me is this: Beanie Wells said his procedure was more complicated than meniscus surgery when asked if the meniscus was involved and he's still not fully ready to go four months after the procedure. Leave the smile out of the discussion, if you like. Regardless of what his agent said, if Beanie's comments -- which were spontaneous and not crafted in response to the burgeoning concerns after Wells' comments surfaced -- are truthful, there is really only one possible procedure he could've had.

Removing loose meniscal particles or other clean-out procedures are a brief rehab and wouldn't be "more complicated." A primary meniscus repair is complicated and has a longer rehabilitation period, but it's a meniscus surgery. That leaves microfracture surgery.

This is the only issue I have with what you have said to this point. No, it doesn't leave microfracture surgery - it leaves any knee surgery that doesn't specifically deal with the miniscus. There are countless knee procedures - repairing any number of partially or completely torn ligaments, other cartiledge procedures - it could even be something like PVNS (Pigmented Villonodular Synovitis), or other synovial issues, many of which also require a complicated procedure to remedy. Many of which still only require a scope, but can take longer and are seen as more complicated (although recovery times for many are similar to a traditional "scope").While I agree, the situation is a little odd, removing "simple meniscus" repair from the equation does not autmatically leave only microfracture surgery. Now, is it possible it is microfracture? Sure. Just as possible as it's any number of the above.

Another valid point. I don't want to beat a dead horse here and I apologize to those following along if I am, and I'll concede that there are other procedures possible.Please don't take my replies as trying to be difficult or argumentative here. If I'm missing something important or obvious to others more experienced, I very much want to know for my own education and so as not to mislead readers in the future.

What procedure fits this set of facts as well or better than than microfracture?

***a procedure on a knee that's already had part of the meniscus removed

***a procedure on a knee that continued to have pain and swelling after that procedure

***a procedure on a knee that was said to have been strained, sprained and bruised at different points last year

***a procedure on a knee that Wells said needed work very early last year, yet played through anyway

***a procedure that Wells said was not to his meniscus and more complicated than a meniscal surgery

***a procedure that seemingly has Wells continuing to rehab four months after without any setbacks

It's hard for me to think that a ligament repair is likely -- I doubt he'd have continued to play through a partially torn ACL and it's unusual to repair a PCL or MCL surgically, especially a grade that would have allowed him to play through the injury for many weeks. I don't know much about it, but it's hard for me to see a synovitis issue given his known meniscus history and the much greater likelihood that trauma caused his knee symptoms than an alternative. To my knowledge, the standard of care for repairing the articular cartilage (the other primary cartilage or cartilage-like structure) in the knee is microfracture.

Thanks.

 

[MAC_32]

What procedure fits this set of facts as well or better than than microfracture?

Lets pretend it isn't, just for arguments sake. He has still had lower body injuries every single year in his career dating back to college ranging in severity. The common theme? Bottom line, he can't stay healthy. Microfracture, torn ligaments, meniscus, soft, bone chips, repeat swelling, whatever it is - he constantly misses practices, games, portions of games, blows up in games many don't expect him to (healthy), and disappears when many expect him to go nuts (obviously he didn't play full strength).Any way you slice it, something's wrong and something's been wrong with him for years.

 

[NJ]

I think they should be more concerned.

I understand your points, and he may very well have had microfracture surgery, I won't beat a dead horse anymore either other than to say that I guess for me it just comes down to which of these two scenarios seems more likely:A)He had microfracture surgery.Beanie is being vague/deceptive with the media about his injuries as he always is.His agent is flat out lying to fans about it for no good reason when he has nothing to gain by lying.The Cardinals front office is too incompetant to realize that they should be more concerned about their RB situation.orB)He did not have microfracture surgery.Beanie is being vague/deceptive with the media about his injuries as he always is.His agent is telling the truth that he did not have microfracture.The Cardinals front office is not concerned about their RB situation because he did not have microfracture surgery.

 

[Shutout]

All fair points. I very much appreciate the discussion.

I'm truly not interested in stirring the pot. The disconnect for me is this: Beanie Wells said his procedure was more complicated than meniscus surgery when asked if the meniscus was involved and he's still not fully ready to go four months after the procedure. Leave the smile out of the discussion, if you like. Regardless of what his agent said, if Beanie's comments -- which was spontaneous and not crafted in response to the burgeoning concerns after Wells' comments surfaced -- are truthful, there is really only one possible procedure he could've had.

Removing loose meniscal particles or other clean-out procedures are a brief rehab and wouldn't be "more complicated." A primary meniscus repair is complicated and has a longer rehabilitation period, but it's a meniscus surgery. That leaves microfracture surgery.

We've been through this with Wells before. Last year's "bone bruise" was called many different things by Wells and the team.

I don't have an explanation for why he and his agent might seek to blur the truth in the offseason. It just smells fishy to me.

I'm hoping Wells recovers well from whatever "a little more complicated" than meniscus surgery ends up being. I think he's been treated a little unfairly in some circles over the past couple of seasons.

Jene, you hit the nail on the head. Everyone is allowed their own opinion and we believe the only logical explanation is a micro-fracture.The other point is this: a micro-fracture procedure would have been performed only if it was needed. A surgeon is not going to perform a procedure that is going to make a patient worse. The doctors job is to help a patient. The issue some people have in this thread is that this procedure does not bode well for Beanie Wells fantasy performance in 2012.

In other recent news, Titus Young punched Louis Delmas in the face. DetroitLions.com then printed an article about how it never happened. Days later Titus is still not allowed at the Lions facility and Coach Schwarz has made it clear that he will let everyone know when Titus is allowed back in the facility. Must be a Ford.

Not really. The problem some people have with this thread is that it is speculation. We can talk all day about what an ACL tear means to Ahmad bradshaw if it is reported but why talk about an ACL tear to Ahmad bradshaw if it has not been REPORTED that he tears an ACL. We might as well be looking at the brace Tom Brady wears on his knee and speculating that he has injured it again.

 

[Shutout]

All fair points. I very much appreciate the discussion.

I'm truly not interested in stirring the pot. The disconnect for me is this: Beanie Wells said his procedure was more complicated than meniscus surgery when asked if the meniscus was involved and he's still not fully ready to go four months after the procedure. Leave the smile out of the discussion, if you like. Regardless of what his agent said, if Beanie's comments -- which were spontaneous and not crafted in response to the burgeoning concerns after Wells' comments surfaced -- are truthful, there is really only one possible procedure he could've had.

Removing loose meniscal particles or other clean-out procedures are a brief rehab and wouldn't be "more complicated." A primary meniscus repair is complicated and has a longer rehabilitation period, but it's a meniscus surgery. That leaves microfracture surgery.

This is the only issue I have with what you have said to this point. No, it doesn't leave microfracture surgery - it leaves any knee surgery that doesn't specifically deal with the miniscus. There are countless knee procedures - repairing any number of partially or completely torn ligaments, other cartiledge procedures - it could even be something like PVNS (Pigmented Villonodular Synovitis), or other synovial issues, many of which also require a complicated procedure to remedy. Many of which still only require a scope, but can take longer and are seen as more complicated (although recovery times for many are similar to a traditional "scope").While I agree, the situation is a little odd, removing "simple meniscus" repair from the equation does not autmatically leave only microfracture surgery. Now, is it possible it is microfracture? Sure. Just as possible as it's any number of the above.

This is not a slight at the OP. I think we all recognize the idea of bringing it up and talking aloud about it. But, at the end of the day, if someone has asked a question twice and been told no twice, unless you're doing some investigative reporting to prove otherwise, there isn't much reason to go into this level of speculation suggesting otherwise.

It just seems there is enough news to report and react to that we don't need to play what if.

 

[BlackMamba24]

thoughts on williams? will he be more productive than beanie?

 

[Shutout]

thoughts on williams? will he be more productive than beanie?

he's got his own problems to heal up from, like getting his knee cap back into the appropriate region of his body.

 

[JPeso]

Beanie could go from being vastly overrated to somewhat underrated in the same off-season. Or perhaps you will always be sinking the cost?